Playing with about 15 different mods, I'm not sure "was intended" works as an argument. The game is hardly recognizable, at least the version I'm playing (in terms of rules/numbers of course). It's not a matter of not being able to do it with random rolls either - I just choose not to, to avoid frustration over bad rolls. There is enough of that already for my taste.
Is it easier? Yes, it is. There are many ways to make the game even harder. But at some point, it's not a test of skill, just a test of dice. I just like that less than the next guy.
but that doesn't make any sense. Not getting full hp is like puting min conc on fighter it is just bad. If someone want bigger challenge he can play without wizards or something
The rules are designed around the vanilla game, not around the many, many, MANY changes made by mods. Once you have a Lich dropping a Dragon's Breath-Comet combo onto your head after just Timestop-summoning a Dark Planetar, you will re-evaluate much of what you thought you knew about the rules...
But jokes aside, the HP is a minor factor in the difficulty. It's still very, very easy to die, and I do so frequently and painfully. The difference is merely that I now know I will be able to take some beating with all my characters, rather than hoping I don't end up 30 HP short with one of them at endgame, so I have to play nanny to not have them die.
You make it sound as though the extra HP just made everything a cakewalk, but it really doesn't. It's not like you can use the HP to brute-force encounters or ignore mechanics, the dangerous stuff will STILL kill you. It just makes things more consistent, because you don't risk your low HP guy being the target of a sequencer, or a HLA spell, or whatever and die, whereas any other char would have survived. That sort of RNG just isn't fun for me personally.
Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I made the necessary corrections in the original post. Do you think that UAI being effective permanently even after you dual should be reported as a bug? Anyway, I have to say, @Lord_Tansheron, that you are a very patient person, dealing with those high-level duals.
Still a substantial difference, though not QUITE as much. I made a mistake earlier, by the way, assuming that thiefs gained +1HP/level - that is in fact mages only. I guess I've made too many Kensai->Mages in my day... So I guess T->F will only end up with a +1/level advantage later on, which isn't a lot considering the initial hit dice and CON bonuses for fighters.
Another argument for the K13->T in favor of the T24->F I suppose! I think I can consider that experiment failed, now...
P.S.: Please don't make me calculate HP values for multiclass...
I did the experiment and got the HP values in game with no member being the protagonist. Maybe the Rogue Rebalancing mod effects HP somehow.
Anyway, thanks for the responses and interesting discussion.
... I'm glad that 2 wizard slayers work like that ...
I'll just repost the link to a thread arguing that Wizard Slayer in the most underrated class. I've never tried one, but I can see that they could have considerable utility when you are up against a very high HP opponent with casting ability. The other Fighter kits just have so much going for them in every encounter that the investment in WS seems greater than the potential return by comparison. Which of course makes your experiment very interesting.
So how about an wizard slayer 13/thief x, ***** in greatswords + uai + carsomyr + gauntlets of improved weapon spec. etc hehe ... just for something to tack into the 6 spot ...
8 attacks per round with improved haste? + a dispell on every hit +50% mr and a +6 weapon ... something just doesn't seem all that great about it but still ... something for the evil or neutral party maybe, meh
I never used traps much in my play before maybe this is the guy ... uh maybe ..., he won't be getting levels back until sometime late in the underdark or further 2,130,000 xp... is that alright? Not all parties can beat down firkraag until later, i think my current party can tho ... 2 tries for shadow dragon 1 shot shadelord ... hmmn ahhh i'm so dumb won't be using carsomyr till 4,250,000xp
Don't get bored lol i might restart in bgee:
wiz slayer 13/thief x two handed sword kensai 9/mage x scimitar barbarian 15/cleric x flail wizard slayer 9/mage x longsword wizard slayer 7/thief x axe shapeshifter 14/fighter x staff
The end result of my reasoning so far gm mod remember ... and you need tweakpack for a dual barbarian too ... If melee is that good well the least amount of attacks of any character is 8 (uh ok not the barb) at their peak and 4 will hit 10. Yeah i don't give a damn about backstabs
I still have an urge to make a female pure kensai dwarf wielding halberds lol so trashy looking, it'll make you happy ;D Can anyone find a decent avatar for that... ?
i don't see any reason for pure kensai because he add nothing but dps but every character adds dps so why would you go pure kensai? i think he would be fun for like npc run destroying everything but in moded game it is better to have a little more versatile character than no armor pure fighters
you have no inquisitor but carsomyr with thief should be fun
at least shapeshifter/fighter can cast some druidic spells and is tanky as hell shapeshifted
about avatars i have really hard time finding decent for every character
thousands of images
main char 2.1kk inquisitor 1.7kk without sailing only 2levels WK anfd almost all quest done on the map
While debating on my 6th slot, I toyed with the idea of actually having a ranged character for a change. This is a departure from my usual stance and focus on ToB endgame, but several people have (perhaps rightly so) questioned whether such a specialization is worth it at the expense of mid-game power.
And there is no doubt that Archers have a lot of power there. Not only do they have an inherent advantage due to not being in melee (meaning they invalidate many enemy attacks), they also have quite the impressive toolbox with their various ammo and weapon types.
Crossbows in particular have proven to be quite good. The Light Crossbow of Speed is available extremely early, as is Firetooth - with these two, you can become one of the most annoying mage-pokers there ever was.
A key part in this is Bolt of Biting; hitting a mage even once with it gives you a fairly good chance of poisoning them, essentially shutting down much of their spellcasting for a whole 15 seconds. This is usually enough to severely damage their support, and/or dispel them for the finishing blow. Also, you can sometimes get a hit in even through SCS pre-buffs, making it even better.
I've also underestimated Bolt of Lightning; 1d8 + 4d4 is a considerable amount, and even with a saving throw it's still 1d8 + 2d4. That is a LOT of damage, folks! Damage that, by the way, goes right through Stoneskin (well, part of it, but that's enough to interrupt). Also, with Firetooth and regular, unenchanted bolts, you can pierce both PfMW *and* Stoneskin at the same time. Ouch!
The cleric spells you get early on (before your fighters dual to cleric) also help. They're not amazing or anything, but my party setup tends to be vulnerable at lower levels, and this sort of help does much to alleviate some of the troubles I've been having.
Speaking of levels, I think that I've just about reached the maximum feasible dual-classes for a 6-person party with 3; I've tried 4, even 5, and though it certainly is doable (and arguably more power late in the game), I am not certain that it is good enough to warrant it anymore. I still believe that Kensai 13 -> Mage is the DPSer of choice, though; I will continue running 2 of them for now. Barbarian 15 -> Cleric has also continued to impress me. That leaves one more slot (assuming Inquisitor + Archer as the other members): the thief-slot.
I've tried most combinations now, anything from low thief -> fighter and low fighter -> thief to thief 24 -> fighter. The results have never been particularly impressive. Assassins and Swashbucklers have been my kits of choice, but neither really had enough oomph for my taste. Sure, big backstabs are nice - but so are regular backstabs. Poison is okay, but unreliable, and Swashbucklers don't add THAT much damage after all. Kensai->Thief was another option, but that leaves early levels without a thief - and those are arguably the ones where you actually want them the most.
I see two solutions to this dilemma. One is to forego thief completely. You can pop locks with Knock, and ignore/brute-force traps. There is little worthwhile pickpocketing. Backstabs are nice, but can be done without. The biggest hit however is not being able to use Scarlet Ninja-to; that really does suck, which is why I am currently testing Option Two: Fighter/Thief multi.
Unlike dual-class, it doesn't gimp you in any part of the game, save perhaps towards the end; you can carry that easily though, until the point where you are so high in level it doesn't really matter whether you're 30 or 40. Most importantly though, you can actually take some hits with it (wearing platemail of course, simply unequip/switch if you do need to stealth), something that is direly needed in a party with two Kensais/Mages.
I've just passed the Underdark with it, and did it fairly comfortably. I haven't fought many Liches yet, though; I suspect my Archer to lose considerable power there, but we will see. The damage it does is certainly higher than I expected, even at non-max APR. I could reach 5 using Tuigan Bow, but there is sadly no arrow equivalent to Bolt of Lightning; still, I suspect that later on in the game I may use it for "regular" DPS to save on special ammo. Bolts are limited after all.
The F/T has performed as expected, though I suppose I won't really see a difference to my previous setups before I reach higher levels. I'm anxious to see how much less (or more?) damage it deals in comparison. It certainly is a LOT easier to use - and that has, in essence, been what this experiment is about.
I'll keep testing and see at what point my Archer's power tapers off, and I wish it was something else instead - certainly it will face some tough spots in ToB. We will see.
Perhaps your Archer will find a way to adapt to ToB environment. Regarding the thief slot, did you try a pure Swashbuckler? They have a pretty decent growth curve.
I have tried pure thieves early in my testing, and was thoroughly unimpressed. They simply don't seem to grow well, as thieving skills are easily capped, and many of them are useless anyway (like pick pocket or hide in shadows). Their HLAs are also lackluster (save for UAI, see above).
Swashbucklers do accrue some nice damage bonuses, but you have to take into account that they lose GM; they need what, lvl 15 just to match the passive GM damage/hit bonus? And then there's the matter of APR - not only do they lose 1/2 APR from GM, they also lose 1 APR from not being fighters. That means they'll cap at a maximum of 4 APR (1 base + 1 wielding offhand + 1 offhand APR bonus + 1/2 specialization + 1/2 gauntlets).
APR is the single most important contributor to damage output, and even at high levels I doubt that a Swashbuckler can stack enough passive damage bonuses to compensate for a whole missing attack. Perhaps at lvl 40 it's just about even (depending of course on what weapon they use), if even that...
Their missing HP is also annoying, as you want every last bit of it on Insane. I try to have as few non-fighters in my party as possible for that very reason. No, there definitely needs to be a fighter in there somewhere... I'm just not sure where, and how!
The F/T is promising, but time will tell. In the end I may go back to a F->T dual, as the penalty is relatively small with how fast thieves level... But then it's so many useless thief levels again... *sigh* Not an easy choice!
I also briefly considered a Bard (i.e. a Blade), and may go back to that eventually. They cannot pick locks or disarm traps, but they have UAI, which is all that matters, really. Blades can also compensate for missing APR to some degree through Offensive Spin, which I'm told does in fact work with Improved Haste, despite descriptions to the contrary. No specialization, though... Bah!
I usually do WK post-Underdark in Insane games. There's several annoying spots there I'd rather have some punch for.
The most important buff is haste. You can do that as you zone in (hit pause just as loading screen finishes so you can give commands before the dialogue). Stoneskin etc. you can also buff on the fly.
It's important to prioritize targets correctly, i.e. pick what you need to kill most. Also keep interrupts going as far as it's possible.
That room is definitely one of the harder ones. Also, I'm not sure you're always in a dead magic zone beforehand - I think SCSII allows you to randomize the maze. It's definitely random for me, just not sure if that was SCSII or some other mod, or if it's only semi-random and you keep certain fixed points (like always being in a dead zone before the demons).
My present team is made along the lines of @Lord_Tansheron 's. It is finishing up Level 5 of Watcher's Keep after entering Amkethran. I use some Tactics mods, SCS2, and aTweaks. The Sorcerer has proved invaluable against very tough enemies and helped a lot with the transition for the duals as he soon had Mordenkainen Swords to take up the melee slack. I don't use traps much but they really helped in the Twisted Rune.
1. Sorcerer / Staff of the Magi 2. Inquisitor / Carsomyr 3. Berserker 13 -> Cleric / Flail of Ages & Defender of Easthaven 4. Kensai 13 -> Mage / Angurvadal & Kundane 5. Kensai 13 -> Mage / Celestial Fury or Sanchuudoku & Belm 6. Fighter-Thief Multi (Dwarf) / Foebane & Scarlet Ninja-to
level 3 Watcher's Keep one of the demon fights no prebuff 4 glabrezu + red demon + small enemies what level do you need for this? any advice? http://youtu.be/37FwFmq23Ao
I have tried pure thieves early in my testing, and was thoroughly unimpressed. They simply don't seem to grow well, as thieving skills are easily capped, and many of them are useless anyway (like pick pocket or hide in shadows). Their HLAs are also lackluster (save for UAI, see above).
Swashbucklers do accrue some nice damage bonuses, but you have to take into account that they lose GM; they need what, lvl 15 just to match the passive GM damage/hit bonus? And then there's the matter of APR - not only do they lose 1/2 APR from GM, they also lose 1 APR from not being fighters. That means they'll cap at a maximum of 4 APR (1 base + 1 wielding offhand + 1 offhand APR bonus + 1/2 specialization + 1/2 gauntlets).
APR is the single most important contributor to damage output, and even at high levels I doubt that a Swashbuckler can stack enough passive damage bonuses to compensate for a whole missing attack. Perhaps at lvl 40 it's just about even (depending of course on what weapon they use), if even that...
Their missing HP is also annoying, as you want every last bit of it on Insane. I try to have as few non-fighters in my party as possible for that very reason. No, there definitely needs to be a fighter in there somewhere... I'm just not sure where, and how!
The F/T is promising, but time will tell. In the end I may go back to a F->T dual, as the penalty is relatively small with how fast thieves level... But then it's so many useless thief levels again... *sigh* Not an easy choice!
I also briefly considered a Bard (i.e. a Blade), and may go back to that eventually. They cannot pick locks or disarm traps, but they have UAI, which is all that matters, really. Blades can also compensate for missing APR to some degree through Offensive Spin, which I'm told does in fact work with Improved Haste, despite descriptions to the contrary. No specialization, though... Bah!
I think F/T are one of the best class combos in the game. They simply have no weaknesses...ever. I'm sure you already know all their strengths so I won't list them. But I've played one many times and they are absolute beasts. So I think you'll really grow to the love the combo; especially once you get to pick from Fighter HLAs and Thief HLAs.
F/Ts are okay, but I'm still torn. They don't pack as much punch as I'd like, but I'm still in the mid-game so that might get better.
I don't really like thief HLAs, and if I could, I'd just take UAI and be done with it. But my experiments in that direction (i.e. high level duals) haven't exactly worked, so...
I guess I could get more bang out of it if I backstabbed more, I tend to get a little lazy with micro management.
Not enough punch? Do you mean just in raw damage? Also it sounds like your just not a big fan of thieves in general. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's the impression I'm getting.
You are not wrong. I don't like thieves. The only reason I am using one is because SNT requires UAI to be used effectively, and because disarming traps and picking locks instead of Knocking them is slightly more convenient.
Maybe I'll try a thief-less run, possibly with a party so small I don't need SNT.
Yea I think you'll enjoy a thief-less run substantially more then. Nothing worse than having a character in your party that you don't like and are just dragging around cause you feel you have to. That's no fun. You definitely don't need a thief. It does make things easier though. Good luck on your run mate.
What I care about, and what I get my "fun" out of, is figuring out and optimizing a powergaming party. If that means a thief, then by all means; if that means NO thief, then all the better.
Still, I'm not so sure about party size. Since actual gain from levels tapers off quite quickly (i.e. not much of a difference between lvl30 and 40 in terms of power), and since enemy HP don't scale with party size, larger parties *should* put out more damage. But larger parties mean more dual-wielders, and that means SNT.
It's all about the numbers in the end, but it's almost impossible to model things because the environment and the variables involved are so vastly different from fight to fight. I'm currently thinking that 5 people may be optimal... but I might be wrong in that.
F/Ts are okay, but I'm still torn. They don't pack as much punch as I'd like, but I'm still in the mid-game so that might get better.
I don't really like thief HLAs, and if I could, I'd just take UAI and be done with it. But my experiments in that direction (i.e. high level duals) haven't exactly worked, so...
I guess I could get more bang out of it if I backstabbed more, I tend to get a little lazy with micro management.
What are the stats of Scarlet Ninja-to? I can't actually find a description anywhere for it.
I really enjoy backstabbing in BG1. Two thieves stealthing through a dungeon (in stealth or speed boots) chunking enemies along the way and disabling traps is really a lot of fun. Not sure how viable this is in BG2 but I'll probably give it a shot, even if it's the cast of replacing one of the thieves with an invisible mage (as it's difficult to justify 2 thieves in a BG2 party). Might work fine for trash anyway.
Traps are great fun. I love having 2 thieves with ~50 in find traps and 2+ traps/day. Can really help when trying to rest in hostile areas or before a tough fight.
Scarlet Ninja-to is a +3 ninja-to with some minor poison damage and, most importantly, +1 attacks per round. Unfortunately it can ONLY be used by Monks - which is why you need UAI to make it effective.
Backstabbing is okay even through BG2. Sadly, most of the difficult mobs (liches, beholders, etc.) and practically all bosses are immune to it. I sometimes use it to dispose of annoying enemies like clerics quickly, but I'm often lazy and don't bother setting it up. That's just me, though, I'm sure with proper micro you could get more bang out of it (especially considering how many invisibility potions I have banked by now...).
Detect Illusion can be helpful, but I tend to use True Sight a LOT anyway so it's a bit moot, especially considering you often need to stand there and find traps instead of hacking at enemies. I know there's ways to attack AND find traps, but I don't always get it to work and then I have to start all over again when it fails. That being said, you quickly end up with more thieving points than you know what to do with anyway.
Comments
Is it easier? Yes, it is. There are many ways to make the game even harder. But at some point, it's not a test of skill, just a test of dice. I just like that less than the next guy.
If someone want bigger challenge he can play without wizards or something
But jokes aside, the HP is a minor factor in the difficulty. It's still very, very easy to die, and I do so frequently and painfully. The difference is merely that I now know I will be able to take some beating with all my characters, rather than hoping I don't end up 30 HP short with one of them at endgame, so I have to play nanny to not have them die.
You make it sound as though the extra HP just made everything a cakewalk, but it really doesn't. It's not like you can use the HP to brute-force encounters or ignore mechanics, the dangerous stuff will STILL kill you. It just makes things more consistent, because you don't risk your low HP guy being the target of a sequencer, or a HLA spell, or whatever and die, whereas any other char would have survived. That sort of RNG just isn't fun for me personally.
Anyway, thanks for the responses and interesting discussion.
I've never tried one, but I can see that they could have considerable utility when you are up against a very high HP opponent with casting ability. The other Fighter kits just have so much going for them in every encounter that the investment in WS seems greater than the potential return by comparison. Which of course makes your experiment very interesting.
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/threads/wizard-slayer-is-the-most-underrrated-class-and-probably-the-best-fighter-kit.120819/
that is my reason for playing wizard slayers
8 attacks per round with improved haste? + a dispell on every hit +50% mr and a +6 weapon ... something just doesn't seem all that great about it but still ... something for the evil or neutral party maybe, meh
I never used traps much in my play before maybe this is the guy ... uh maybe ..., he won't be getting levels back until sometime late in the underdark or further 2,130,000 xp... is that alright? Not all parties can beat down firkraag until later, i think my current party can tho ... 2 tries for shadow dragon 1 shot shadelord ... hmmn ahhh i'm so dumb won't be using carsomyr till 4,250,000xp
Don't get bored lol i might restart in bgee:
wiz slayer 13/thief x two handed sword
kensai 9/mage x scimitar
barbarian 15/cleric x flail
wizard slayer 9/mage x longsword
wizard slayer 7/thief x axe
shapeshifter 14/fighter x staff
The end result of my reasoning so far gm mod remember ... and you need tweakpack for a dual barbarian too ...
If melee is that good well the least amount of attacks of any character is 8 (uh ok not the barb) at their peak and 4 will hit 10. Yeah i don't give a damn about backstabs
but every character adds dps so why would you go pure kensai?
i think he would be fun for like npc run destroying everything but in moded game it is better to have a little more versatile character than no armor pure fighters
you have no inquisitor but carsomyr with thief should be fun
at least shapeshifter/fighter can cast some druidic spells and is tanky as hell shapeshifted
about avatars i have really hard time finding decent for every character
thousands of images
main char 2.1kk
inquisitor 1.7kk
without sailing only 2levels WK anfd almost all quest done on the map
This time: Archer.
While debating on my 6th slot, I toyed with the idea of actually having a ranged character for a change. This is a departure from my usual stance and focus on ToB endgame, but several people have (perhaps rightly so) questioned whether such a specialization is worth it at the expense of mid-game power.
And there is no doubt that Archers have a lot of power there. Not only do they have an inherent advantage due to not being in melee (meaning they invalidate many enemy attacks), they also have quite the impressive toolbox with their various ammo and weapon types.
Crossbows in particular have proven to be quite good. The Light Crossbow of Speed is available extremely early, as is Firetooth - with these two, you can become one of the most annoying mage-pokers there ever was.
A key part in this is Bolt of Biting; hitting a mage even once with it gives you a fairly good chance of poisoning them, essentially shutting down much of their spellcasting for a whole 15 seconds. This is usually enough to severely damage their support, and/or dispel them for the finishing blow. Also, you can sometimes get a hit in even through SCS pre-buffs, making it even better.
I've also underestimated Bolt of Lightning; 1d8 + 4d4 is a considerable amount, and even with a saving throw it's still 1d8 + 2d4. That is a LOT of damage, folks! Damage that, by the way, goes right through Stoneskin (well, part of it, but that's enough to interrupt). Also, with Firetooth and regular, unenchanted bolts, you can pierce both PfMW *and* Stoneskin at the same time. Ouch!
The cleric spells you get early on (before your fighters dual to cleric) also help. They're not amazing or anything, but my party setup tends to be vulnerable at lower levels, and this sort of help does much to alleviate some of the troubles I've been having.
Speaking of levels, I think that I've just about reached the maximum feasible dual-classes for a 6-person party with 3; I've tried 4, even 5, and though it certainly is doable (and arguably more power late in the game), I am not certain that it is good enough to warrant it anymore. I still believe that Kensai 13 -> Mage is the DPSer of choice, though; I will continue running 2 of them for now. Barbarian 15 -> Cleric has also continued to impress me. That leaves one more slot (assuming Inquisitor + Archer as the other members): the thief-slot.
I've tried most combinations now, anything from low thief -> fighter and low fighter -> thief to thief 24 -> fighter. The results have never been particularly impressive. Assassins and Swashbucklers have been my kits of choice, but neither really had enough oomph for my taste. Sure, big backstabs are nice - but so are regular backstabs. Poison is okay, but unreliable, and Swashbucklers don't add THAT much damage after all. Kensai->Thief was another option, but that leaves early levels without a thief - and those are arguably the ones where you actually want them the most.
I see two solutions to this dilemma. One is to forego thief completely. You can pop locks with Knock, and ignore/brute-force traps. There is little worthwhile pickpocketing. Backstabs are nice, but can be done without. The biggest hit however is not being able to use Scarlet Ninja-to; that really does suck, which is why I am currently testing Option Two: Fighter/Thief multi.
Unlike dual-class, it doesn't gimp you in any part of the game, save perhaps towards the end; you can carry that easily though, until the point where you are so high in level it doesn't really matter whether you're 30 or 40. Most importantly though, you can actually take some hits with it (wearing platemail of course, simply unequip/switch if you do need to stealth), something that is direly needed in a party with two Kensais/Mages.
So, my current party layout is as following:
Kensai 13 -> Mage
Kensai 13 -> Mage
Barbarian 15 -> Cleric
Fighter/Thief
Inquisitor
Archer
I've just passed the Underdark with it, and did it fairly comfortably. I haven't fought many Liches yet, though; I suspect my Archer to lose considerable power there, but we will see. The damage it does is certainly higher than I expected, even at non-max APR. I could reach 5 using Tuigan Bow, but there is sadly no arrow equivalent to Bolt of Lightning; still, I suspect that later on in the game I may use it for "regular" DPS to save on special ammo. Bolts are limited after all.
The F/T has performed as expected, though I suppose I won't really see a difference to my previous setups before I reach higher levels. I'm anxious to see how much less (or more?) damage it deals in comparison. It certainly is a LOT easier to use - and that has, in essence, been what this experiment is about.
I'll keep testing and see at what point my Archer's power tapers off, and I wish it was something else instead - certainly it will face some tough spots in ToB. We will see.
Swashbucklers do accrue some nice damage bonuses, but you have to take into account that they lose GM; they need what, lvl 15 just to match the passive GM damage/hit bonus? And then there's the matter of APR - not only do they lose 1/2 APR from GM, they also lose 1 APR from not being fighters. That means they'll cap at a maximum of 4 APR (1 base + 1 wielding offhand + 1 offhand APR bonus + 1/2 specialization + 1/2 gauntlets).
APR is the single most important contributor to damage output, and even at high levels I doubt that a Swashbuckler can stack enough passive damage bonuses to compensate for a whole missing attack. Perhaps at lvl 40 it's just about even (depending of course on what weapon they use), if even that...
Their missing HP is also annoying, as you want every last bit of it on Insane. I try to have as few non-fighters in my party as possible for that very reason. No, there definitely needs to be a fighter in there somewhere... I'm just not sure where, and how!
The F/T is promising, but time will tell. In the end I may go back to a F->T dual, as the penalty is relatively small with how fast thieves level... But then it's so many useless thief levels again... *sigh* Not an easy choice!
I also briefly considered a Bard (i.e. a Blade), and may go back to that eventually. They cannot pick locks or disarm traps, but they have UAI, which is all that matters, really. Blades can also compensate for missing APR to some degree through Offensive Spin, which I'm told does in fact work with Improved Haste, despite descriptions to the contrary. No specialization, though... Bah!
F/M or T/M another mage HLAa not bad in TOB
how can someone do this?
they cast unholyblight for 100 dmg aoe and they are really hard to kill
i think i might be too low level without HLAs
The most important buff is haste. You can do that as you zone in (hit pause just as loading screen finishes so you can give commands before the dialogue). Stoneskin etc. you can also buff on the fly.
It's important to prioritize targets correctly, i.e. pick what you need to kill most. Also keep interrupts going as far as it's possible.
That room is definitely one of the harder ones. Also, I'm not sure you're always in a dead magic zone beforehand - I think SCSII allows you to randomize the maze. It's definitely random for me, just not sure if that was SCSII or some other mod, or if it's only semi-random and you keep certain fixed points (like always being in a dead zone before the demons).
1. Sorcerer / Staff of the Magi
2. Inquisitor / Carsomyr
3. Berserker 13 -> Cleric / Flail of Ages & Defender of Easthaven
4. Kensai 13 -> Mage / Angurvadal & Kundane
5. Kensai 13 -> Mage / Celestial Fury or Sanchuudoku & Belm
6. Fighter-Thief Multi (Dwarf) / Foebane & Scarlet Ninja-to
what level do you need for this?
any advice?
desctiption is 2d4+3, +6 vs undead
but is it 2d4+3+6 or 2d4+6?
I don't really like thief HLAs, and if I could, I'd just take UAI and be done with it. But my experiments in that direction (i.e. high level duals) haven't exactly worked, so...
I guess I could get more bang out of it if I backstabbed more, I tend to get a little lazy with micro management.
Maybe I'll try a thief-less run, possibly with a party so small I don't need SNT.
Still, I'm not so sure about party size. Since actual gain from levels tapers off quite quickly (i.e. not much of a difference between lvl30 and 40 in terms of power), and since enemy HP don't scale with party size, larger parties *should* put out more damage. But larger parties mean more dual-wielders, and that means SNT.
It's all about the numbers in the end, but it's almost impossible to model things because the environment and the variables involved are so vastly different from fight to fight. I'm currently thinking that 5 people may be optimal... but I might be wrong in that.
I really enjoy backstabbing in BG1. Two thieves stealthing through a dungeon (in stealth or speed boots) chunking enemies along the way and disabling traps is really a lot of fun. Not sure how viable this is in BG2 but I'll probably give it a shot, even if it's the cast of replacing one of the thieves with an invisible mage (as it's difficult to justify 2 thieves in a BG2 party). Might work fine for trash anyway.
Traps are great fun. I love having 2 thieves with ~50 in find traps and 2+ traps/day. Can really help when trying to rest in hostile areas or before a tough fight.
Detect Illusion will be a big one in BG2 I think.
Backstabbing is okay even through BG2. Sadly, most of the difficult mobs (liches, beholders, etc.) and practically all bosses are immune to it. I sometimes use it to dispose of annoying enemies like clerics quickly, but I'm often lazy and don't bother setting it up. That's just me, though, I'm sure with proper micro you could get more bang out of it (especially considering how many invisibility potions I have banked by now...).
Detect Illusion can be helpful, but I tend to use True Sight a LOT anyway so it's a bit moot, especially considering you often need to stand there and find traps instead of hacking at enemies. I know there's ways to attack AND find traps, but I don't always get it to work and then I have to start all over again when it fails. That being said, you quickly end up with more thieving points than you know what to do with anyway.
i only found solo scsii ascension tactics cavaliera and it wasn't insane but core rules
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/182/index/14285607/12