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powergaming party (BG2 TOB,NPC and multiplayer)

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Comments

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358

    I think it was bugged in the original release and did not add the APR it should. Mods are there that fix it, but there's several different solutions, ranging from +1/2 APR to +1 APR. I'm not entirely certain which one is the most "accurate" but I think I remember it being the +1/2 APR one... it's a hotly debated topic, though, with quite some controversy.

    Grandmastery in vanilla BG2 still keeps you with the +1/2 APR of Specialisation,
    Grandmastery in modded BG2 gives you an extra +1 APR *on top of* the +1/2 of Specialisation, for +3/2 attacks total.
    Grandmastery in BGEE gives you an extra +1/2 APR on top of Specialisation, for a total of +1 APR.

    so my game is even harder!

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Harder, sure, but also not working as intended. The original GM bonuses are very lackluster given the investment of 5 proficiency points - when compared to a mere 2 (which can achieved by Paladins and Rangers, too) it really feels like it's hardly worth it. APR is simply too big of a contributor to damage output, and I think fixing GM is completely justified. More so even since BG:EE actually implemented the fix, making it quasi-official.

  • AnaximanderAnaximander Member Posts: 191
    I like the modded version of weapon grandmastery, how does it compare to 2e book rules?

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358

    I like the modded version of weapon grandmastery, how does it compare to 2e book rules?

    zur312 said:

    I think it was bugged in the original release and did not add the APR it should. Mods are there that fix it, but there's several different solutions, ranging from +1/2 APR to +1 APR. I'm not entirely certain which one is the most "accurate" but I think I remember it being the +1/2 APR one... it's a hotly debated topic, though, with quite some controversy.

    Grandmastery in vanilla BG2 still keeps you with the +1/2 APR of Specialisation,
    Grandmastery in modded BG2 gives you an extra +1 APR *on top of* the +1/2 of Specialisation, for +3/2 attacks total.
    Grandmastery in BGEE gives you an extra +1/2 APR on top of Specialisation, for a total of +1 APR.

    so my game is even harder!
    something like this

  • AnaximanderAnaximander Member Posts: 191
    edited May 2013
    PnP rules grant +3 to hit +3 to damage, +1apr to the specialist apr, and base weapon damage and knockdown die increased to the next greater die size :D ... i think the mod is the best comprimise.

    So something like this:

    specialist +1tohit +2todmg 3/2 2/1 5/2
    grand master +3tohit +3todmg (5/2) (3/1) 7/2
    dual wield gm (7/2) (4/1) 9/2

    ... and you get a speed bonus and your 1d8 scimitar goes to a 1d10, and you get some increased crit range if some optional rule is used etc. I think the modded gm is more accurate. So is the concern that 9/2 +belm or kundane +improved haste breaks something?

    As far as I'm concerned 7-9th level is a great dual time for a warrior if gm is implemented properly and I'll hold fast to the modded version if I have too, assuming it works in bg2 ee.

    **note i'd go to 13th if you use a two handed weapon ...

    Post edited by Anaximander on
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    dunno if bg ee sorc without exp limit can cast improved haste?

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Um... maybe? I'm not sure the spell was in the original game (even if you did remove XP it wasn't in the files), but it may have been added in EE. Either way, at that high a level I'm not sure EE offers enough of a challenge for it to matter...

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    i mean for testing this + ee weapon grandmastery

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    You can just use EEKeper to give yourself Improved Haste and the appropriate levels, I suppose.

  • AaronDemonciaAaronDemoncia Member Posts: 31
    Belm and Scarlet ninja-to arent the only two, everyone forgets the Kundane+2 that has the APR+1 as a hidden effect from the planar sphere. its hidden, but put it on/off and check.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Not sure why you would say it's hidden, mine at least pretty clearly says that it adds +1 APR. Not sure why you would say "everyone forgets" either, when it's explicitly mentioned in this thread.

    "Hidden" +APR would be Fire Tooth, which adds an extra APR when used as a throwing dagger, but apparently also does so when it's used as a melee weapon. Of course, you can't actually equip two weapons if one of them can be used as a ranged (even if it's currently in melee mode), but suppose you edit in a second weapon, it will in fact add the APR much like the other three "legit" +APR weapons.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    i think it is not hidden in fire tooth but ranged weapons get +1 apr and engine can't do -1 apr in melee

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    "Hidden" in a sense that it is not explicitly mentioned anywhere on the item. And as you said, the engine doesn't allow for it to work the way it should (i.e. not adding it in melee) so it's obviously not working as intended - but it's also not something that you'd think was working that way at first glance.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    yeah
    i am now wandering if 1 weapon style would work with this dagger so you could use it for more crit

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Depends on your definition of "work". Certainly it would be worse than the alternatives. That isn't to say that it doesn't have its uses, especially in certain solo games. But from a powergaming perspective, it's more or less rubbish.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    it is hard to beat flail of ages with dagger ;D

  • AnaximanderAnaximander Member Posts: 191
    edited May 2013
    "Cute" power party?

    charname: halfling, pure kensai - halberd, spear ... sub-optimal weapons but whatever, you're pure kensai
    kensai 9/mage X - scimitar, offhand belm
    berserker 8/cleric X - flail
    berserker 13/druid X - quarterstaff, club, sling
    wizard slayer 9/thief X - longsword, shortbow, offhand scarlet ninja-to
    wizard slayer 9/mage X - axe, crossbow, offhand kundane ...

    Either the druid or cleric will get the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization ...
    Was thinking dragon's breath halberd isn't that bad on a pure kensai, and ixil's spike is worth a look for endgame ... He'll have enough pips for 2 grandmasteries ...

    I have tested a four man party just to speed up dual classing and it seemed to be alright, just thought i might miss the nice druid summons(probably wouldn't get them until ToB anyways heh). Haven't reached the underdark yet though, haven't tried any liches or dragons but ...

    Charname Kensai 9/Mage X Scimitar
    Berserker 8/Cleric X Flail
    Wizard Slayer 9/Thief X Longsword
    Inquisitor X Two Handed Sword, Axe

    With this smaller party the game is as easy as pie, like rediculous ... at the beginning anyway.

    I've been thinking to have at least one pure fighter/palidin in the party is useful for whirlwind moments, scs 2 likes to smash down all your buffs and stuff should you err ...

    **Note I use that grandmastery mod so I dual 1 handed weapon wielders @ lvls 7-9.**
    **Almost always get +2str tear**
    **Probably better to have one of the mages be charname in a 6 man party so you can get a ring of wizardry made without a spot for Jaheira you'll need the wizard stronghold, or if you like just get that mod and make all strongholds available, or CLUAConsole:CreateItem("ring08") haha!**
    **wizard slayer/mage has to be CN, like obviously lol**



    Post edited by Anaximander on
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    edited May 2013
    you could use imapler
    Spear +3, Impaler
    +3 THACO, +10 piercing damage

    +10 damage is like staff of ram but you don't have to go to WK level 4 to grab it

    ------------------------------------------------------
    also i don't know if team with all partial mages would be better

    if 1 dispell can ruin your protections from protections why even bother?

    kensai/mage
    cleric/ilusionist
    fighter/ilusionist
    thief/ilusionist
    or something like that with 4x immunity abjuration + spell shields + spell traps and other stuff they can outlast every mage
    ____________________________________________________________________
    also i learned powergaming parties are too powerfull when fighting regular enemies but

    LICHES OMG!
    they stack so many time stops contingencies PFMW comets pit fiends and my 3 mages (one is similacrum with wand) + inquisitor can't dispell him like WHAT? how can he receive ruby ray + breaches + few pierce magic and still being under PFMW?!

    in 12 hours there should be my Lich video with those Liches

  • AnaximanderAnaximander Member Posts: 191
    Maybe I need a sorceror ... ? :D

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Sorcerer is rubbish for powergaming, except in very specific scenarios (solo). Offensive spells on average just do far too little damage compared to melee attacks, and are far less consistent.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358

    Maybe I need a sorceror ... ? :D

    so now i need sorcerers? My 3 mages and inquisitor are not enough for taking on 1 lone lich? that ridiculous


    LOOK AT THIS! 2 hours vs 3 liches and was lucky to kill any of them
    Am i doing something wrong or are liches immune to breach?

    Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2 021 tactics scsii insane Bonus Raw Lich in the Gate


    Let's Play Baldur's Gate 2 022 tactics scsii insane Bonus Raw Lich in Temple Ruins

  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    edited May 2013
    unless you do timestop shapechange mindflayer.

    For things that are immune to +3 or greater weapons, just do combo of chain contingency and spell trigger.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    bbear said:

    unless you do timestop shapechange mindflayer.

    For things that are immune to +3 or greater weapons, just do combo of chain contingency and spell trigger.

    that easy when you have chain contingency and spell trigger ; DD but my highest level spell is 6

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Not sure about the exact changes made by SCSII but Liches are immune to ALL spells below lvl5 - including Breach and Dispel Magic. Demi-Liches are even better, being immune to anything below lvl9...

    Note: Inquisitor Dispel is special. It is "lvl0", and will in fact affect Liches. However, as they are very, very high level usually, even an Inquisitor Dispel with full modifier will take luck getting through.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    edited May 2013
    without higher than 5th level dispells fighting is pointless

    but with immunity:abjuration and spellshields with enough buffs there is possibility of waiting all PFMW and killing lich after

    but if breach doesn't work than what is dispelling combat buffs like PFMW? pierce magic is level 6 but it's spell defense dispell

    vanilla demi-liches are really easy i would say easier than lich form because when you are protected you only need +4 weapon and they are done kind of disapointing with awesome name like "DEMI"+"LICH" but that was vanilla ; p

    inquisitors
    http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3uiqnw/

    Post edited by zur312 on
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    There's windows where Liches are not protected by PfMW, it's not a gap-less coverage. Sneak in a hit with Mace of Disruption or Azuredge if you're pro, otherwise just get in some regular DPS. It's not easy or fast killing these Liches, it's a matter of persistence.

  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 759
    Stupid question, but what does "OP" mean?

    I favor 4 person parties. I also know, in ToB, HLA's are amazing. Multiclassed characters get access to more HLA's. Here's my power party (I favor good/neutral parties):

    Gnome Fighter/illusionist
    Jaheira
    Aerie
    Jan

    It doesn't look like much, but this party is really, really good. If you want 6, add Mazzy and gear gear towards using flails and a strength belt. With her 18 Dex and awesome saving throws, she makes a great tank. And add Sarevok. He never left, even with a 20 Rep.

    Alternately, all you need is a sorcerer. These guys are OP, and I don't even know what that means LOL.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    OP means Overpowered (or Original Post/Poster in a thread, but not in this case). It's used quite gratuitously within the gaming community... think of it as "very, very good". It rarely means actual game imbalance, though it can.

    Multiclass is strong in small parties. Still, you lose the kit benefits of dual-class, which isn't always worth it. Essentially, there are only very few HLAs that are actually worth taking (from a powergaming perspective of course). The decision of whether more HLAs are worth losing kit benefits is not one that can be generalized, especially since games and setups vary wildly.

    Regarding sorcerer, it is in my opinion quite overrated; melee damage is simply higher, and more consistent in a majority of cases. Of course, there's fringe scenarios where this isn't true as well, such as solo play.

    Klorox
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    edited May 2013
    Death fog should work on a lich since it's a lvl 6 spell. Its spellcasting should be interrupted too.

    [Deleted User]
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    It might, though Liches are also immune to certain types of damage. In addition, SCS adds a lot of scripted spellcasting, which can't be interrupted by anything.

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