I did use some minor cheats to enhance the experience for myself... such as some illegal proficiency points, some innate abilities... etc. They don't really change how powerful so you can just ignore that. I did give my kensai Use Any Item just for fun but I unequipped the illegal items for the purpose of those numbers.
The damage numbers are rough averages... I guess critical hit damage is the best way to measure consistent damage.
thanks!
doesn't kai gives max damage? and this cleric 5th level spell ? Righteous Magic
This is a powerful combat spell that enhances the priest's physical prowess, transforming him into a juggernaut of destruction. The effect adds 1 temporary hit point for every level of the caster, adds 1 point of strength for every three levels of the caster (to a maximum of 25), and inflicts maximum damage with every hit. The effects last for the duration of the spell or until dispelled.
Thief with poisonous weapons, tanking healer, immortal god. The rest is fluff until TOB.
why not kensai/mage?
Ehh, I like my pure mages.
was your party bg1 or bg2 power?
Up to ToB. Once I got to ToB I needed fluff.
any AI mods like scsii or tactics?
Vanilla, I never really played with mods much, due to the horrible download speed of my internet. It took me almost 12 hours to download BGEE originally. So yes, I've never played Ascension, but I bet it would be much better than ToB, almost anything would. So me knowing that that party was good for me till ToB is because I've only played ToB once or twice since 2001 while playing the other two an infinite number of times.
1) PC - Fighter/Mage or Kensai/Mage The most powerful class combo is an obvious choice here. I personally tend to avoid dual classing, but Kensai/Mage puts everything else to shame.
2) Keldorn He's a great fighter (assuming you get him gauntlets of dexterity), he can wield the holy avenger, and he has the Inquistitor's epic dispel.
3) Korgan -> Sarevok Korgan is likely the best fighter available in BG2, but in ToB Sarevok is a clear upgrade. His Deathbringer Assault ability in particular is godly.
4) Viconia The party needs a healer and Viconia is my preferred option. Aerie is a strong contender, but with a pure cleric the party will have access to more and stronger heals at an earlier point in the game. More mage spell casters isn't really a need of my party either.
5) Edwin A complete no brainer, as Edwin is the only NPC pure mage. With his extra spell slots Edwin compares very favorably with PC mages despite his low stats.
6) Jan Jansen For the last slot the party needs some sort of thief. Were I playing just BG2 I would likely go for Imoen and use Jan Jansen merely as a placeholder. Access to the high level thief abilities makes Jan much preferable - use any item and spike trap(s) are too epic to miss.
Do note that this party isn't particularly feasible (in BG2; anything will work in ToB) without a mod to keep your party happy. Besides the manageable differences in alignment, Keldorn will flat out try to kill Viconia at some point. The conversation that triggers this is apparently random so it may be possible to avoid it with strategic reloads.
another party may be actually the best focus = disrupt mages since mages are the top enemies not golems or something
wizard slayer13/Thief Kensai13/Mage - i think everyone know why kensai/mage wizard slayer13/Mage berserker13/cleric - healer with berserk (barb15/cleric if mods) or ranger13/cleric for tanking withiron skin? inquisitor
looking even better
pretty similar to the last but with 2 invisible wizard slayers hacking and slashing on single target wizard before buffs and getting 4 hits he will have only 60% to cast spell 6 hits = only 40% wizard slayers equiped with best magic and non magical weapons for different protections wizard slayer miscasc avoids stone skin (op)
WS are not good. If you get to hit a mage in the face with your fighter, you've already won the fight. PfMW will complete negate the WS penalty. Stoneskin will not, but you can easily pierce Stoneskin with any elemental damage weapon anyway and cause spell failure with that damage. That means that any RELEVANT defensive spell you pretty much have to dispel anyway - so the hits that follow might as well be from a strong hitter.
There's a half dozen threads on this forum alone that deal with how bad WS are, and why. For a reason, too!
WS are not good. If you get to hit a mage in the face with your fighter, you've already won the fight. PfMW will complete negate the WS penalty. Stoneskin will not, but you can easily pierce Stoneskin with any elemental damage weapon anyway and cause spell failure with that damage. That means that any RELEVANT defensive spell you pretty much have to dispel anyway - so the hits that follow might as well be from a strong hitter.
There's a half dozen threads on this forum alone that deal with how bad WS are, and why. For a reason, too!
not really
OK edit
i see your point but pfmw+stoneskin = fighter is useless and wizard slayer still can hack this mage for miscast magic and 4apr(40% miscasc after 1 round) is very reasonable speed for fighter with 2dual wielding
the only real problems are liches with pfmw (can't touch with normal weapon)
Hitting a mage with PfMW up will not apply WS spell penalty. So you need to dispel PfMW anyway, and once you get to hit it any meaningful number of times, it'll be dead. If you get in 4 hits with your fighters, how many mages in the game will be alive still? Melanthium?
Also, the WS penalty does not work against scripted contingencies, which many of the difficult mods add to mages. Not to mention that all the mage-bosses (Irenicus, for example) are afaik immune to WS penalties.
Stoneskin is easily pierced by elemental damage, as I mentioned before. You can interrupt casts fairly easily by just switching to an elemental damage weapon when SS is up. Or you can dispel it right away - not like there's many lvl4 spells other than Breach that your K->Ms will want to memorize anyway.
Yes, in the case of PfMW plus Stoneskin, a WS wielding a non-magical weapon will in fact apply its penalty - unless the target can't be hit by non-magical weapons. Sadly, Liches and several bosses are in fact immune to normal weapons. That leaves only a handful of mages that you can use this tactic against, and they are hardly a challenge to defeat.
In fact, in the most difficult games, I'd wager that among the regular, non-unique enemies you face, Liches are by far the most dangerous. "Vanilla" mages without innate protections are actually not that common.
I'm not saying that there aren't situations in which a WS can be useful. There certainly are. But on average and in general, having a different type of fighter tends to just be better. It's not like WS only has upsides - they do come with some steep penalties, not to mention a lack of bonuses against non-casters.
that is about +some damage or miscast magic and i don't think the better way is that obvious because you can kill anything with normal warrior but mages are brutal in bg
Those "mages" you are referring to are mostly Liches, though, or bosses - both of which are unaffected by your WS argument. Or am I missing something? What mages are there that are "normal" types and yet a great challenge to defeat?
I am pretty sure that bosses are immune to WS penalties. I know that Irenicus (the one in Hell, from the Tactics mod) is. Also pretty sure that any form of scripted spell ignores the WS penalty, and things like SCS add many of those.
How can you wait on those lvl 13-15 dualers to get their class back? I seem to need to get things underway quick in my scs2 games ... the improved trolls even are a pain ... actually i turned on most of the improved features can't seem to wait for gimps to lvl up ... lvl 9 seems to be ideal but maybe i'm just a little weak ...
It's not too difficult to regain a 13-dual, if you know what to do (and any powergamer should). Many of them are mages, often more than one, allowing for mass scroll-scribing to gap the first few levels easily. You also plan your leveling route accordingly, saving up certain high-xp areas, not turning in party-wide-xp quests immediately, etc. Most of the pre-Underdark content is perfectly doable with a party of lvl 9+, not to mention the support they get from possible non-duals, which will be higher level. There's a few tricky ones, of course, namely anything involving Liches - you can just skip that until you regain your levels. Remember, this is powergaming - things can get rought at times, but the rewards are worth it. APR is the single most effective contributor to your damage output, and when doing BG2/ToB you really should never ever dual a fighter from anything but lvl13.
Again, this is powergaming - not convenience, not "fun for me", just facts. And facts say there is pretty much no reason whatsoever to dual a fighter at anything other than lvl13 (with the possible exception of barbarian).
i don't think that is correct because you can get to level 21-23 and dual so you will get more +damage kensai and hla and still be able to dual kensai/mage
Again, this is powergaming - not convenience, not "fun for me", just facts. And facts say there is pretty much no reason whatsoever to dual a fighter at anything other than lvl13 (with the possible exception of barbarian).
I think convenience does play a role, though. After all, one of the major reasons why Kensai->Mage is preferred over Fighter/Mage (and dual classes are preferred over multiclass in general) is because dual class mages get 9th level spells at a much more convenient point in the game. Likewise, a party of melee fighters isn't necessarily more powerful than a party of spellcasters, but fighters deal their damage in a much more convenient fashion than mages, who will likely have to refresh their spells after every couple of fights if they have to be the main source of damage.
But then, I tend to see "powergaming" as a subjective weighing of priorities and goals rather than the pursuit of an objective "best build."
Comments
doesn't kai gives max damage? and this cleric 5th level spell ?
Righteous Magic
This is a powerful combat spell that enhances the priest's physical prowess, transforming him into a juggernaut of destruction. The effect adds 1 temporary hit point for every level of the caster, adds 1 point of strength for every three levels of the caster (to a maximum of 25), and inflicts maximum damage with every hit. The effects last for the duration of the spell or until dispelled.
people do not have skills for mods installing
1) PC - Fighter/Mage or Kensai/Mage
The most powerful class combo is an obvious choice here. I personally tend to avoid dual classing, but Kensai/Mage puts everything else to shame.
2) Keldorn
He's a great fighter (assuming you get him gauntlets of dexterity), he can wield the holy avenger, and he has the Inquistitor's epic dispel.
3) Korgan -> Sarevok
Korgan is likely the best fighter available in BG2, but in ToB Sarevok is a clear upgrade. His Deathbringer Assault ability in particular is godly.
4) Viconia
The party needs a healer and Viconia is my preferred option. Aerie is a strong contender, but with a pure cleric the party will have access to more and stronger heals at an earlier point in the game. More mage spell casters isn't really a need of my party either.
5) Edwin
A complete no brainer, as Edwin is the only NPC pure mage. With his extra spell slots Edwin compares very favorably with PC mages despite his low stats.
6) Jan Jansen
For the last slot the party needs some sort of thief. Were I playing just BG2 I would likely go for Imoen and use Jan Jansen merely as a placeholder. Access to the high level thief abilities makes Jan much preferable - use any item and spike trap(s) are too epic to miss.
Do note that this party isn't particularly feasible (in BG2; anything will work in ToB) without a mod to keep your party happy. Besides the manageable differences in alignment, Keldorn will flat out try to kill Viconia at some point. The conversation that triggers this is apparently random so it may be possible to avoid it with strategic reloads.
wizard slayer13/Thief
Kensai13/Mage - i think everyone know why kensai/mage
wizard slayer13/Mage
berserker13/cleric - healer with berserk (barb15/cleric if mods) or ranger13/cleric for tanking withiron skin?
inquisitor
looking even better
pretty similar to the last but with 2 invisible wizard slayers hacking and slashing on single target wizard before buffs and getting 4 hits he will have only 60% to cast spell
6 hits = only 40%
wizard slayers equiped with best magic and non magical weapons for different protections
wizard slayer miscasc avoids stone skin (op)
i don't know why i wasn't doing this lol
There's a half dozen threads on this forum alone that deal with how bad WS are, and why. For a reason, too!
OK edit
i see your point but pfmw+stoneskin = fighter is useless and wizard slayer still can hack this mage for miscast magic and 4apr(40% miscasc after 1 round) is very reasonable speed for fighter with 2dual wielding
the only real problems are liches with pfmw (can't touch with normal weapon)
Also, the WS penalty does not work against scripted contingencies, which many of the difficult mods add to mages. Not to mention that all the mage-bosses (Irenicus, for example) are afaik immune to WS penalties.
Stoneskin is easily pierced by elemental damage, as I mentioned before. You can interrupt casts fairly easily by just switching to an elemental damage weapon when SS is up. Or you can dispel it right away - not like there's many lvl4 spells other than Breach that your K->Ms will want to memorize anyway.
but still stoneskin+pfwm = useless warrior and usefull wizardslayer for miscast
but you mean pfwm protects from normal weapon wizard slayer dealing this spell penalty? if that's correct than they are not as cool as i thought
In fact, in the most difficult games, I'd wager that among the regular, non-unique enemies you face, Liches are by far the most dangerous. "Vanilla" mages without innate protections are actually not that common.
I'm not saying that there aren't situations in which a WS can be useful. There certainly are. But on average and in general, having a different type of fighter tends to just be better. It's not like WS only has upsides - they do come with some steep penalties, not to mention a lack of bonuses against non-casters.
i did not test this it is pure fantasy
kensai 9/mage x charname with scimitar
berserker 9/cleric x flail
inquisitor 2 handed sword - axes
imoen/jan
... sometimes neera and jaheira
not full on power gaming but partly anyways ... I can't hack waiting to 13 but maybe with certain classes in support it is possible ...
level 7 is good and fast in BG2
just get out of prologue and you have 2nd class
i will probably do that in scsii/tactics bg2 with my team for tests
wizard slayer13/Thief
Kensai13/Mage - i think everyone know why kensai/mage
wizard slayer13/Mage
berserker13/cleric - healer with berserk (barb15/cleric if mods) or ranger13/cleric for tanking withiron skin?
inquisitor
maybe + shapeshifter for fun
because you can get to level 21-23 and dual so you will get more +damage kensai and hla and still be able to dual kensai/mage
+damage +hla is more powerfull
But then, I tend to see "powergaming" as a subjective weighing of priorities and goals rather than the pursuit of an objective "best build."