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powergaming party (BG2 TOB,NPC and multiplayer)

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Comments

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Wolk
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    edited April 2013

    Here is the save file, it goes in the mpsave folder.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/e951s9c0iz9gpga/000000015-Shadow 5.zip

    I did use some minor cheats to enhance the experience for myself... such as some illegal proficiency points, some innate abilities... etc. They don't really change how powerful so you can just ignore that. I did give my kensai Use Any Item just for fun but I unequipped the illegal items for the purpose of those numbers.

    The damage numbers are rough averages... I guess critical hit damage is the best way to measure consistent damage.

    thanks!

    doesn't kai gives max damage? and this cleric 5th level spell ?
    Righteous Magic


    This is a powerful combat spell that enhances the priest's physical prowess, transforming him into a juggernaut of destruction. The effect adds 1 temporary hit point for every level of the caster, adds 1 point of strength for every three levels of the caster (to a maximum of 25), and inflicts maximum damage with every hit. The effects last for the duration of the spell or until dispelled.

    Post edited by zur312 on
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    Samus said:

    Now this is proper power gaming...

    this is proper cheating ; p

    GrandGourou
  • GemHoundGemHound Member Posts: 799
    edited April 2013
    zur312 said:

    GemHound said:

    zur312 said:

    GemHound said:

    zur312 said:

    GemHound said:

    Assassin
    Fighter/Cleric
    Mage

    Thief with poisonous weapons, tanking healer, immortal god. The rest is fluff until TOB.

    why not kensai/mage?

    Ehh, I like my pure mages.

    was your party bg1 or bg2 power?
    Up to ToB. Once I got to ToB I needed fluff.
    any AI mods like scsii or tactics?
    Vanilla, I never really played with mods much, due to the horrible download speed of my internet. It took me almost 12 hours to download BGEE originally. So yes, I've never played Ascension, but I bet it would be much better than ToB, almost anything would. So me knowing that that party was good for me till ToB is because I've only played ToB once or twice since 2001 while playing the other two an infinite number of times.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    if they implemented some mods in ee versions that everyone could easily enjoy modding that would be better than making ee versions

    people do not have skills for mods installing

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    sadpanda nothing new in powergaming?

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Only all that is under the sun, my friend.

  • HoopleDoopleHoopleDoople Member Posts: 23
    My power party with NPC's is as follows:

    1) PC - Fighter/Mage or Kensai/Mage
    The most powerful class combo is an obvious choice here. I personally tend to avoid dual classing, but Kensai/Mage puts everything else to shame.

    2) Keldorn
    He's a great fighter (assuming you get him gauntlets of dexterity), he can wield the holy avenger, and he has the Inquistitor's epic dispel.

    3) Korgan -> Sarevok
    Korgan is likely the best fighter available in BG2, but in ToB Sarevok is a clear upgrade. His Deathbringer Assault ability in particular is godly.

    4) Viconia
    The party needs a healer and Viconia is my preferred option. Aerie is a strong contender, but with a pure cleric the party will have access to more and stronger heals at an earlier point in the game. More mage spell casters isn't really a need of my party either.

    5) Edwin
    A complete no brainer, as Edwin is the only NPC pure mage. With his extra spell slots Edwin compares very favorably with PC mages despite his low stats.

    6) Jan Jansen
    For the last slot the party needs some sort of thief. Were I playing just BG2 I would likely go for Imoen and use Jan Jansen merely as a placeholder. Access to the high level thief abilities makes Jan much preferable - use any item and spike trap(s) are too epic to miss.


    Do note that this party isn't particularly feasible (in BG2; anything will work in ToB) without a mod to keep your party happy. Besides the manageable differences in alignment, Keldorn will flat out try to kill Viconia at some point. The conversation that triggers this is apparently random so it may be possible to avoid it with strategic reloads.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    another party may be actually the best focus = disrupt mages since mages are the top enemies not golems or something

    wizard slayer13/Thief
    Kensai13/Mage - i think everyone know why kensai/mage
    wizard slayer13/Mage
    berserker13/cleric - healer with berserk (barb15/cleric if mods) or ranger13/cleric for tanking withiron skin?
    inquisitor

    looking even better

    pretty similar to the last but with 2 invisible wizard slayers hacking and slashing on single target wizard before buffs and getting 4 hits he will have only 60% to cast spell
    6 hits = only 40%
    wizard slayers equiped with best magic and non magical weapons for different protections
    wizard slayer miscasc avoids stone skin (op)

    i don't know why i wasn't doing this lol

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    WS are not good. If you get to hit a mage in the face with your fighter, you've already won the fight. PfMW will complete negate the WS penalty. Stoneskin will not, but you can easily pierce Stoneskin with any elemental damage weapon anyway and cause spell failure with that damage. That means that any RELEVANT defensive spell you pretty much have to dispel anyway - so the hits that follow might as well be from a strong hitter.

    There's a half dozen threads on this forum alone that deal with how bad WS are, and why. For a reason, too!

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    edited April 2013

    WS are not good. If you get to hit a mage in the face with your fighter, you've already won the fight. PfMW will complete negate the WS penalty. Stoneskin will not, but you can easily pierce Stoneskin with any elemental damage weapon anyway and cause spell failure with that damage. That means that any RELEVANT defensive spell you pretty much have to dispel anyway - so the hits that follow might as well be from a strong hitter.

    There's a half dozen threads on this forum alone that deal with how bad WS are, and why. For a reason, too!

    not really

    OK edit

    i see your point but pfmw+stoneskin = fighter is useless and wizard slayer still can hack this mage for miscast magic and 4apr(40% miscasc after 1 round) is very reasonable speed for fighter with 2dual wielding


    the only real problems are liches with pfmw (can't touch with normal weapon)

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Hitting a mage with PfMW up will not apply WS spell penalty. So you need to dispel PfMW anyway, and once you get to hit it any meaningful number of times, it'll be dead. If you get in 4 hits with your fighters, how many mages in the game will be alive still? Melanthium?

    Also, the WS penalty does not work against scripted contingencies, which many of the difficult mods add to mages. Not to mention that all the mage-bosses (Irenicus, for example) are afaik immune to WS penalties.

    Stoneskin is easily pierced by elemental damage, as I mentioned before. You can interrupt casts fairly easily by just switching to an elemental damage weapon when SS is up. Or you can dispel it right away - not like there's many lvl4 spells other than Breach that your K->Ms will want to memorize anyway.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    edited April 2013
    oh irenicus is immuned? ;D

    but still stoneskin+pfwm = useless warrior and usefull wizardslayer for miscast

    but you mean pfwm protects from normal weapon wizard slayer dealing this spell penalty? if that's correct than they are not as cool as i thought

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Yes, in the case of PfMW plus Stoneskin, a WS wielding a non-magical weapon will in fact apply its penalty - unless the target can't be hit by non-magical weapons. Sadly, Liches and several bosses are in fact immune to normal weapons. That leaves only a handful of mages that you can use this tactic against, and they are hardly a challenge to defeat.

    In fact, in the most difficult games, I'd wager that among the regular, non-unique enemies you face, Liches are by far the most dangerous. "Vanilla" mages without innate protections are actually not that common.

    I'm not saying that there aren't situations in which a WS can be useful. There certainly are. But on average and in general, having a different type of fighter tends to just be better. It's not like WS only has upsides - they do come with some steep penalties, not to mention a lack of bonuses against non-casters.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    that is about +some damage or miscast magic and i don't think the better way is that obvious because you can kill anything with normal warrior but mages are brutal in bg

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Those "mages" you are referring to are mostly Liches, though, or bosses - both of which are unaffected by your WS argument. Or am I missing something? What mages are there that are "normal" types and yet a great challenge to defeat?

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    probably bosses

    i did not test this it is pure fantasy

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    I am pretty sure that bosses are immune to WS penalties. I know that Irenicus (the one in Hell, from the Tactics mod) is. Also pretty sure that any form of scripted spell ignores the WS penalty, and things like SCS add many of those.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    i think i should test this for the sake of truth and power!

  • AnaximanderAnaximander Member Posts: 191
    edited May 2013
    How can you wait on those lvl 13-15 dualers to get their class back? I seem to need to get things underway quick in my scs2 games ... the improved trolls even are a pain ... actually i turned on most of the improved features can't seem to wait for gimps to lvl up ... lvl 9 seems to be ideal but maybe i'm just a little weak ...

  • AnaximanderAnaximander Member Posts: 191
    edited May 2013
    i'm gonna have a party through bg:ee and bg2:

    kensai 9/mage x charname with scimitar
    berserker 9/cleric x flail
    inquisitor 2 handed sword - axes
    imoen/jan
    ... sometimes neera and jaheira

    not full on power gaming but partly anyways ... I can't hack waiting to 13 but maybe with certain classes in support it is possible ...

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    yeah i dunno about 13 level either but it "power"
    level 7 is good and fast in BG2

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Level 7 is good and fast in BG*1*. It's even faster in BG2.

    [Deleted User]
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    It's not too difficult to regain a 13-dual, if you know what to do (and any powergamer should). Many of them are mages, often more than one, allowing for mass scroll-scribing to gap the first few levels easily. You also plan your leveling route accordingly, saving up certain high-xp areas, not turning in party-wide-xp quests immediately, etc. Most of the pre-Underdark content is perfectly doable with a party of lvl 9+, not to mention the support they get from possible non-duals, which will be higher level. There's a few tricky ones, of course, namely anything involving Liches - you can just skip that until you regain your levels. Remember, this is powergaming - things can get rought at times, but the rewards are worth it. APR is the single most effective contributor to your damage output, and when doing BG2/ToB you really should never ever dual a fighter from anything but lvl13.

    Dexter
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    but level 7 you get when you start the game and regain level 8 of another class in first chapter of the game so it is really convenient

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,454
    I agree level 7 duals are the most fun for me in BG2. You basically get to play the whole game as a dual.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    level 7 is great if you are new to bg2
    just get out of prologue and you have 2nd class

    i will probably do that in scsii/tactics bg2 with my team for tests

    wizard slayer13/Thief
    Kensai13/Mage - i think everyone know why kensai/mage
    wizard slayer13/Mage
    berserker13/cleric - healer with berserk (barb15/cleric if mods) or ranger13/cleric for tanking withiron skin?
    inquisitor

    maybe + shapeshifter for fun

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Again, this is powergaming - not convenience, not "fun for me", just facts. And facts say there is pretty much no reason whatsoever to dual a fighter at anything other than lvl13 (with the possible exception of barbarian).

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,358
    i don't think that is correct
    because you can get to level 21-23 and dual so you will get more +damage kensai and hla and still be able to dual kensai/mage

    +damage +hla is more powerfull

  • KaigenKaigen Member Posts: 1,567

    Again, this is powergaming - not convenience, not "fun for me", just facts. And facts say there is pretty much no reason whatsoever to dual a fighter at anything other than lvl13 (with the possible exception of barbarian).

    I think convenience does play a role, though. After all, one of the major reasons why Kensai->Mage is preferred over Fighter/Mage (and dual classes are preferred over multiclass in general) is because dual class mages get 9th level spells at a much more convenient point in the game. Likewise, a party of melee fighters isn't necessarily more powerful than a party of spellcasters, but fighters deal their damage in a much more convenient fashion than mages, who will likely have to refresh their spells after every couple of fights if they have to be the main source of damage.

    But then, I tend to see "powergaming" as a subjective weighing of priorities and goals rather than the pursuit of an objective "best build."

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