since someone posted npc party bg1-not bg ee pc fighter/cleric dwarf tanking melee dmg buffs screwing AI of monsters with boots of speed edwin op mage coran bow op kivan bow op shar-teel bow 3rd best archer montaron bow 4th best archer
they shoot so fast so many arrows that everything die almost without pc engaging in melee
there could be some changes
get pc fighter with bows jaheira with throwing daggers for healing kagain tank rest the same
As Transmuter you get Abjuration as oppsed school... and thats not even hurt... sure you cant cast protect vs evil but who cares.... only spell that would hurt to not have is protection vs petrification... but there is always something to use to come around it... other specialist you get more powerful weaknes... so basically you get extra spell slot and little downside as Transmuter specialist..
But why a pure mage? Isn't a sorcerer better, for BG1? Also, isn't Wild Mage the best "specialist"?
randomness of wild mage is dangerous and time consuming (more reloads) ... and Sorcerer can only have a set of few magic... pure mage can have all arcane spells in the game thats make them more versatile and a better choise as powerplay (and specialist gets 1 more spell slot to cast per day thus the Transmuter) .
Why a pure arcane caster at all, then? I'm no expert on BG1 by any means, but I was always under the impression that pure arcane casters were relatively weak there.
Why a pure arcane caster at all, then? I'm no expert on BG1 by any means, but I was always under the impression that pure arcane casters were relatively weak there.
have you ever cast the spell sleep (it's very good low lvl spells.... at higher lvl you have other good spells...
i would say nope pure arcane casters aren't weak... plus they gets their lvl 5 arcane spells.... while other nonepure classes don't
Why a pure arcane caster at all, then? I'm no expert on BG1 by any means, but I was always under the impression that pure arcane casters were relatively weak there.
have you ever cast the spell sleep (it's very good low lvl spells.... at higher lvl you have other good spells...
i would say nope pure arcane casters aren't weak... plus they gets their lvl 5 arcane spells.... while other nonepure classes don't
fighter/ilusionist is probably best character in bg1
probably best in bg1> pure mage specialist
mages do not get anything good in level 5 in bg1, maybe EE changed something dunno
It wasn't trying to be super optimized, but overall it was pretty strong. The Berserker was very useful against mages with imprisonment, the kensai, archer, and swashbuckler were very strong with their level bonuses. The Archer was fairly useless in some situations because lots of enemies are immune to missiles (especially mages with stoneskin apparently). Gensen helps alot here.
The skald was used as a support mage early on and then went full time song once it got HLA's. The -10 AC was pretty much essential for staying alive, and the bonuses to everyone else was nice. My swashbuckler ended up with -24 AC thanks to the song bonus of -4.
Pure kensai is super strong... I almost never missed, celestial fury stun locked enemies frequently, even adamantine golems. I was probably doing 200 dpr with this character alone.
The cleric was pretty much only used for removing invisibility and healing people. A few buffs here and there were useful, but wasting time casting offensive spells didn't seem to pay off. Casting the Heal spell mid battle was super useful though.
The necromancer and skald pretty much used anti-mage spells the entire game, with a few magic missiles, webs, and skull traps here and there. Finger of death and Horrid Wilting were fun to use but most enemies died before the spells could go off (or had magic resistance + high saving throws).
was kensai stronger than cleric? highest damage? crom offhand? cleric with duhm should score pretty high str and so dmg actually you have swashbuckler and archer too so i ques your team is super damage efficient
Well if you look at the stats of % of kills, its about 42% Kensai, 20% Fighter/Cleric, 19% Archer, 9% Swashbuckler, 2% Skald, 4% Necromancer.
They all have 24 or 25 strength at this point, they started with 19, 18/94, and 18 respectively. All 6 are imported from BG 1 and I gave most of the tomes to the Kensai, and the Wis/Int to cleric/mage.
Kensai -16 AC,-32/-29 Thac0, 9/2 Attacks per round, +12 damage (~48 damage per hit) Cleric: -17 AC, -16 Thac0, 7/2 Attacks per round, +14 damage (~38+ damage per hit) Swashbuckler: -24 AC, -16/-14 Thac0, 2 Attacks per round, +10 damage, (~44 damage per hit) Archer: -8 AC, -22 Thac0, 9/2 Attacks per round, +0 Damage, (~25 damage per hit) Skald: -17 AC, -1 Thac0, 1 attack per round, (~22 damage per hit)
As you can see, swashbuckler is better than the berserker/cleric except it doesn't get as many attacks per round. With whirlwind however, it will do more damage. The berserker/cleric does get some pretty nice spells. Skald is fairly useless in combat once you reach mid-game. Besides the skald's pitiful thac0, this is all with the improve bard song active. Kensai has spirit armor active.
This is all at the end of the game, 7.5 million experience points and fully equipped with items.
Well if you look at the stats of % of kills, its about 42% Kensai, 20% Fighter/Cleric, 19% Archer, 9% Swashbuckler, 2% Skald, 4% Necromancer.
They all have 24 or 25 strength at this point, they started with 19, 18/94, and 18 respectively. All 6 are imported from BG 1 so I have some extra +1 stats here and there.
Kensai -16 AC,-32/-29 Thac0, 9/2 Attacks per round, +12 damage (~48 damage per hit) Cleric: -17 AC, -16 Thac0, 7/2 Attacks per round, +14 damage (~38+ damage per hit) Swashbuckler: -24 AC, -16/-14 Thac0, 2 Attacks per round, +10 damage, (~44 damage per hit) Archer: -8 AC, -22 Thac0, 9/2 Attacks per round, +0 Damage, (~25 damage per hit) Skald: -17 AC, -1 Thac0, 1 attack per round, (~22 damage per hit)
As you can see, swashbuckler is better than the berserker/cleric except it doesn't get as many attacks per round. With whirlwind however, it will do more damage. The berserker/cleric does get some pretty nice spells. Skald is fairly useless in combat once you reach mid-game.
This is all at the end of the game, 7.5 million experience points and fully equipped with items.
so kensai is better than shapeshifter glad to know
very insightful post about damage
was this ~medium damage or max damage?
Could you send me your save file? something like rapidshare would be great
Does the jester kit have any business in a power gaming party? Is their song effected by mr, do significant foes have immunity? Anybody experience this in SoA or ToB?? They can become a skald essentially later on with improved bard song. So can a blade, perhaps blade is best ... what do y'all think?
Imo Bards add nothing substantial to the power of a party. While their enhancements and utility are nice, they come at too high a cost (i.e. diminished damage output).
That is from a powergaming perspective, of course. Bards are perfectly viable characters, even in very hard, modded games. They just aren't better than the alternatives.
it is like this scumbag powergaming oh i see you are making a bard blade let me sing you song of my people kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage
it is like this scumbag powergaming oh i see you are making a bard blade let me sing you song of my people kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage
This makes no sense. You seem to begin with a diminishing hierarchy of powergaming, from 'scrumbag' to blade to ordinary bard, but then you end with a string of Kensai/Mages which would appear to loop around to the initial option.
I did use some minor cheats to enhance the experience for myself... such as some illegal proficiency points, some innate abilities... etc. They don't really change how powerful so you can just ignore that. I did give my kensai Use Any Item just for fun but I unequipped the illegal items for the purpose of those numbers.
The damage numbers are rough averages... I guess critical hit damage is the best way to measure consistent damage.
Comments
since someone posted npc party bg1-not bg ee
pc fighter/cleric dwarf tanking melee dmg buffs screwing AI of monsters with boots of speed
edwin op mage
coran bow op
kivan bow op
shar-teel bow 3rd best archer
montaron bow 4th best archer
they shoot so fast so many arrows that everything die almost without pc engaging in melee
there could be some changes
get pc fighter with bows
jaheira with throwing daggers for healing
kagain tank
rest the same
Abjurer=Alteration
Conjurer=Divination
Diviner=Conjuration
Enchanter=Invocation
Illusionist=Necromancy
Invoker=Enchantment/
Necromancer=Illusion
Transmuter=Abjuration
Wild Mage =Reliability
As Transmuter you get Abjuration as oppsed school... and thats not even hurt... sure you cant cast protect vs evil but who cares.... only spell that would hurt to not have is protection vs petrification... but there is always something to use to come around it...
other specialist you get more powerful weaknes...
so basically you get extra spell slot and little downside as Transmuter specialist..
and Sorcerer can only have a set of few magic...
pure mage can have all arcane spells in the game thats make them more versatile and a better choise as powerplay (and specialist gets 1 more spell slot to cast per day thus the Transmuter) .
not underpowered low stats npc
i would say nope pure arcane casters aren't weak... plus they gets their lvl 5 arcane spells.... while other nonepure classes don't
probably best in bg1> pure mage specialist
mages do not get anything good in level 5 in bg1, maybe EE changed something dunno
Kensai
Berserker (8) -> Cleric
Archer
Swashbuckler
Skald
Necromancer
It wasn't trying to be super optimized, but overall it was pretty strong. The Berserker was very useful against mages with imprisonment, the kensai, archer, and swashbuckler were very strong with their level bonuses. The Archer was fairly useless in some situations because lots of enemies are immune to missiles (especially mages with stoneskin apparently). Gensen helps alot here.
The skald was used as a support mage early on and then went full time song once it got HLA's. The -10 AC was pretty much essential for staying alive, and the bonuses to everyone else was nice. My swashbuckler ended up with -24 AC thanks to the song bonus of -4.
Pure kensai is super strong... I almost never missed, celestial fury stun locked enemies frequently, even adamantine golems. I was probably doing 200 dpr with this character alone.
The cleric was pretty much only used for removing invisibility and healing people. A few buffs here and there were useful, but wasting time casting offensive spells didn't seem to pay off. Casting the Heal spell mid battle was super useful though.
The necromancer and skald pretty much used anti-mage spells the entire game, with a few magic missiles, webs, and skull traps here and there. Finger of death and Horrid Wilting were fun to use but most enemies died before the spells could go off (or had magic resistance + high saving throws).
cleric with duhm should score pretty high str and so dmg
actually you have swashbuckler and archer too so i ques your team is super damage efficient
Fighter/Cleric
Mage
Thief with poisonous weapons, tanking healer, immortal god. The rest is fluff until TOB.
They all have 24 or 25 strength at this point, they started with 19, 18/94, and 18 respectively. All 6 are imported from BG 1 and I gave most of the tomes to the Kensai, and the Wis/Int to cleric/mage.
Kensai -16 AC,-32/-29 Thac0, 9/2 Attacks per round, +12 damage (~48 damage per hit)
Cleric: -17 AC, -16 Thac0, 7/2 Attacks per round, +14 damage (~38+ damage per hit)
Swashbuckler: -24 AC, -16/-14 Thac0, 2 Attacks per round, +10 damage, (~44 damage per hit)
Archer: -8 AC, -22 Thac0, 9/2 Attacks per round, +0 Damage, (~25 damage per hit)
Skald: -17 AC, -1 Thac0, 1 attack per round, (~22 damage per hit)
As you can see, swashbuckler is better than the berserker/cleric except it doesn't get as many attacks per round. With whirlwind however, it will do more damage. The berserker/cleric does get some pretty nice spells. Skald is fairly useless in combat once you reach mid-game. Besides the skald's pitiful thac0, this is all with the improve bard song active. Kensai has spirit armor active.
This is all at the end of the game, 7.5 million experience points and fully equipped with items.
glad to know
very insightful post about damage
was this ~medium damage or max damage?
Could you send me your save file? something like rapidshare would be great
That is from a powergaming perspective, of course. Bards are perfectly viable characters, even in very hard, modded games. They just aren't better than the alternatives.
scumbag powergaming
oh i see you are making a bard blade
let me sing you song of my people
kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage kensai/mage
My mind is broken.
actually it is my broken english
what i want to write and what i actually do is a little off
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e951s9c0iz9gpga/000000015-Shadow 5.zip
I did use some minor cheats to enhance the experience for myself... such as some illegal proficiency points, some innate abilities... etc. They don't really change how powerful so you can just ignore that. I did give my kensai Use Any Item just for fun but I unequipped the illegal items for the purpose of those numbers.
The damage numbers are rough averages... I guess critical hit damage is the best way to measure consistent damage.