For whatever reason, their publisher, Atari, prohibits them to do so. Hence no patch release.
The bigger the company, it seems, the less clue they have on how to run things. I hope Beamdog manages to convince them otherwise.
Yep. Doing crap like this is the reason Atari is in the trouble they are in right now. I mean they were making money from this game (even when purchased from the Beamdog site). They were going to make money on BG2 EE. Why shut down both games but still continue to sell it on Steam? Smells of management incompetence, but you know I should have expected as much. I have always HATED Atari, probably even more than I hate EA.
No! So sad! I really hope they can work this out. I am totally excited for the next patch and I'm sure that Beamdog is going to do anything to solve this. We love the game! You have our support!
@Chow - As per my post, I don't think Baldur's Gate will ever be 'done'. If the worst should happen then my only hope is that the company who buy the IP rights to BG will allow Beamdog/Overhaul to finish what they started. I am hoping WoTC go ahead and put a bid in. The reason it's been so long since anything to do with the original BG saga was made is due to the complex, multi-ownership issues surrounding the game.
If Bioware get the IP rights again I can guarantee you we will be seeing much more of the series. That's likely a bad thing though. Think Baldur's Gate in DA:2 format. I would much rather Bethesda get a hold of it. At least they're sticking to their own standard.
So sad.... (Just to complain about Atari) I've always had a real hard time with Atari in my life of gaming. The only single time I received any support from their customer service, out of several unanswered help requests from other games, was them telling me, "I'm sorry, we no longer provide support for that game." I guess we should have seen this coming.
But, I want to scream out "YOU GUYS AT OVERHAUL ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!" But of course, this is merely text, so capital letters and 13 exclamation points will just have to substitute for my shout of encouragement.
Don't let the legal mumbo-jumbo or the critics get you down, Overhaul!!! You guys are doing a great job!
I am not so sure that Atari is doing this for Beamdog's "benefit" in any way, upcoming events notwithstanding. They likely do not get any money from Overhaul's sales and now they want to monopolize the sales through Steam to try and shore up their debts. That is certainly the impression that I am getting. Without revenue from sales, Overhaul cannot pay wages for the team if they continue working on BG:EE or BG2:EE. I do not think Atari would care much whether Beamdog works on the game at the moment, unfortunately.
@lDanielHolm - A good theory but there is one problem. Atari own the IE rights to the BG series. They would most definitely be gaining some form of percentage through BG:EE sales on the Beamdog website and the App Store. Just like Beamdog will continue to gain revenue from BG:EE sales on Steam. That would be how a contract works and I am sure neither Atari or Beamdog would allow the sale of BG:EE on any platform without either gaining revenue from it.
Of course they gain money from Overhaul's sales. Atari still have full control of the game giving Overhaul access to work on BG but with concrete limitation. If they had the power to tell Overhaul to remove it from sales, they wouldn't be daft enough to turn down a percentage through sales other than Steam.
As the dev's have said a number of times, they were "Requested" to remove the sale of their game on Beamdog/App store. Not forced. Indicating a gigantic pile of legal crap would be coming out of the rafters.
Don't get me wrong, your point is still valid. I could be completely wrong and perhaps I am just being optimistic. Optimistic or not, I consider my point quite valid also. I'm just trying to keep an open mind instead of hanging Atari before we know the truth.
@Pecca - I've heard conflicting reviews on BGT. Some say it's buggy with a few game crippling bugs. Others say it's fantastic. In your experience did you come across game breakers?.
BGT is actually in very good shape, and since it can tap into the latest Fixpack releases it stays in pretty good shape. The perception comes, I think, mainly due to the fact that most folks who are interested in BGT get roped into the larger Big World install, which isn't nearly as stable, pretty complex, and can lead you to some mods of... suboptimal quality. If you stick to BGT you're going to be in pretty good shape.
Request for the dev's: Would you guys be able to give us progress reports on what is happening behind the scenes? I know you cannot mention any details about what is happening - but perhaps simple messages such as "We'll know soon", "Everything is going well in our discussions" or "We'll have a better idea by July 16th - 19th."
I think Andrew's post over yonder summarizes why we're probably not going to be getting any information other than 'it's ongoing, no comment' until it's resolved. It sucks to have to wait in the dark, but really, that's the best option in terms of supporting the team at present. And as amused as I am by Scumbag Atari memes, those probably aren't helping either.
But, I want to scream out "YOU GUYS AT OVERHAUL ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!" But of course, this is merely text, so capital letters and 13 exclamation points will just have to substitute for my shout of encouragement.
You could make it look even better by making it a larger font and possibly making it glow. Just sayin'.
I'm joking, don't do that. The sentiment is great as it is.
Atari have more than likely done the correct thing in telling Beamdog/Overhaul to stop selling the game. They requested this because they themselves simply do not know who Baldur's Gate will belong to by June 19th. Remember: Beamdog/Overhaul do not own any part of the BG IP rights. They only have permission to make an enhanced edition with certain contract limitations set in place. Once Atari get (or don't get) a court order allowing them to sell the BG franchise privately, I assume we will find out rather quickly. If they don't manage to get the court order then BG will be auctioned off to the highest bidder - entwining Overhaul/Beamdog in a whole bunch of intricate legal crap if they are selling a game they no longer have permission to. Rightfully they have been asked to halt further progress until this matter is resolved.
This is near enough my own interpretation of events, though stopping Beamdog from selling it and still selling it through their own channels—without giving something to the developers—is just plain wrong, but that's them being a typical publisher (which is why giving the publishers all the powers isn't the greatest thing to do; in this case, it's business as usual for them).
With an uncertain future, sad news that it is, it's probably for the best that they removed it. Continuing to sell it would likely only muddy the water and cause even more problems.
If/when BG finds a buyer, then a new set of contracts will have to be signed with the new owner. The old contract with Atari, now a defunct company, would no longer be valid (unless the goodwill (current contracts, etc.) is included in the sale).
Here's hoping that if this is the case, the new owners are amicable.
If you stick to BGT you're going to be in pretty good shape.
I have actually tried it and couldn't get it to install. Apparently there is an issue with the game disks, the game plays fine, but there are a couple files missing/corrupt (it could even be related to this). Even on sale, I'm not buying the GOG version after having already bought it in disk format when it was released and having bought BG:EE, too.
I really wanted to try it and get a personal opinion on it, but that's not going to happen any time soon...
(Which is also why I was delighted when BG:EE came along, and goes to show that it's not as hassle-free as some people make it out to be.)
Is there at least some hope this shit gets solved? Been waiting on that new renderer for months already, so i can finally play that ipad version in all it's glory. Goddamn it ...
If you stick to BGT you're going to be in pretty good shape.
I have actually tried it and couldn't get it to install. Apparently there is an issue with the game disks, the game plays fine, but there are a couple files missing/corrupt (it could even be related to this). Even on sale, I'm not buying the GOG version after having already bought it in disk format when it was released and having bought BG:EE, too.
Heh. One of the downsides of being a Fixpacker is that I love having primary sources to test on. At this point I have the 6-disc original BG + TotSC; the 3-disc BG Saga; two copies of the 4-disc SoA; two copies of ToB; GoG's BG2; disc versions of IWD, HoW, PsT, IWD2; CD Projekt's Polish IWD (since they included my IWD mods they gave me a copy); GoG versions of BG, BG2, IWD, and IWD2; and now BGEE.
@CamDawg - I can beat that: I have one original Baldur's Gate (Is it 5 discs or 6?) and one TotSC. Both of these are messed up beyond recognition - I still have the original manual though in perfect condition funnily enough. I then have the combined 6 disc pack of BG + ToTSC. Which is mostly messed up beyond recognition. I have one considerably messed up BG2 original and a BG2 original and ToB original (I looked after the latter ones) and also the original BG 2 disc pack - BG2 + ToB). I then bought the saga which was both games and expansions packs together in a little box. I have 3 copies of BG:EE - Steam, BeamDog and iPad. I have/had CD versions of PT:S, Fallout 1+2 and others.
Follllllooowed by an original copy of Icewind Dale in considerable messed up condition. HoW in considerable messed up condition. IWD box set with HoW in almost messed up condition and IWD 2 in decent condition.
I now have all of the above with GoG, which (having looked at all I wrote above) is probably for the best considering by severe lack of disc appreciation. Somebody should take my old games off me - I don't deserve them.
@EntropyXII Thank you for your analisys of the situation.
Well we here say: Beamdog is an earthenware pot between the iron pots. I don't think Trent or the others can have any substantial weight into this legal matter.
Who will buy the Bg rights will decide the fate of bgee despite all the efforts Beamdog put on it.
I'm very sad, because bgee2 was almost finished, if the buyer is smart will let Beamdog finish this job and get his piece of cake Om nom nom nom!
I think that until August (in the best of the hypothesis) we will know something.
@lDanielHolm - A good theory but there is one problem. Atari own the IE rights to the BG series. They would most definitely be gaining some form of percentage through BG:EE sales on the Beamdog website and the App Store. Just like Beamdog will continue to gain revenue from BG:EE sales on Steam. That would be how a contract works and I am sure neither Atari or Beamdog would allow the sale of BG:EE on any platform without either gaining revenue from it.
We don't know the exact details of the agreement between the two parties, but even if Atari gets a percentage of Beamdog's sales, it is probably not as much as they get from their own sales through Steam.
Of course they gain money from Overhaul's sales. Atari still have full control of the game giving Overhaul access to work on BG but with concrete limitation. If they had the power to tell Overhaul to remove it from sales, they wouldn't be daft enough to turn down a percentage through sales other than Steam.
They may be desperate enough that they are trying to squeeze out a little more revenue by forcing all forthcoming sales to go through them.
As the dev's have said a number of times, they were "Requested" to remove the sale of their game on Beamdog/App store. Not forced. Indicating a gigantic pile of legal crap would be coming out of the rafters.
Overhaul might not be in a position where they could refuse such a request.
Don't get me wrong, your point is still valid. I could be completely wrong and perhaps I am just being optimistic. Optimistic or not, I consider my point quite valid also. I'm just trying to keep an open mind instead of hanging Atari before we know the truth.
I don't want to "hang" Atari, and you are right about us not knowing the truth. But I do not see how your suggestion could fit the facts. I don't see how selling the game would put Beamdog in legal quandary -- they did have the right to distribute the game, and would have retained it at the very least up till Atari's assets are sold at the auction. This request denies Beamdog almost an entire month's worth of sales, for no real benefit that I can see.
@ldanielholm - I guessing it's likely a combination of the two theories to some extent. Like I said: I'm keeping an open mind about the whole ordeal. It could go either way.
This is a bit depressing, thought I'd come check and see if a date was set for BG2:EE and boom find this instead. Hope the guys hear can hammer out a deal to continue but that latest update about having to look for other projects for staff to work on isn't the most encouraging news. Still hope they can fight the good fight and win cause I was really looking forward to the second game.
To the nine hells with it - we should all start a kickstarter fund in order to go and buy our beloved Baldur's Gate in Manhatten on July 16th-19th. Finally the BG series shall be FREE!
[quote] This situation has thrown up some interesting questions though:
1. What exactly did Beamdog buy from Atari in regards to licensing for BG? [/quote]
That's the point, Beamdog didn't BUY ANYTHING from Atari. Beamdog doesn't own the licence to ANY of this. It's being paid to develop and re-produce the existing game. This is why they can't modify any of it: They don't own the content or the rights to the content so they cannot legally modify it.
They may have paid a fee to produce the game, but that's nothing more than an agreement by the rights owner that you can, indeed, use those rights without owning them. Same as if you contact a company and ask if you can use a character or symbol of that company in a non-money making way.
This would also explain why the development staff is all but sitting on their hands at this point.
If I own the rights to something and agree to allow you to use that "something", that agreement only stands so long as I continue to hold the rights to the "something". The moment I no longer hold the rights, you no longer have the legal ability to use that something. The contract is void because I no longer have the legal right to honor that contract.
My guess is Atari no longer owns the rights to D&D...they're in bankruptcy, they own NOTHING. That likely means Beamdog no longer has the rights to produce or work with BG...the original agreement is either null and void (in the worst case) or on hold awaiting transfer to whatever company buys the intellectual rights to D&D from Atari...assuming whoever it is that purchases the rights agrees to allow development to continue.
WotC/Hasbro has little to nothing to do with any of this...they don't own the rights to the COMPUTER production of D&D, only to the printed / tabletop game and the original intellectual rights of D&D itself.
The computer game and the rights to the electronic production of D&D materials is likely in Atari's hands, and since Atari is now in Bankrupcy, they don't own them anymore...
Meaning any contracts dealing with those rights are now either void or on hold till the bankrupcy is settled.
I assume Beamdog/Overhaul is now trying to work with the Bank that owns Atari's Assets (till the sale or completion of the bankrupcy) to see if they can get the bank to re-open the contract with Atari allowing Beamdog/Overhual to continue producing, patching and working on the game till the legal sale to another company.
Note here too: This likely means yet another delay/work stoppage after or around the time of the sale of the Electronic D&D IP. I would assume that Beamdog/Overhaul will need to re-negotiate the contract with whoever picks up the rights to publish Electronic D&D stuff. That could all be being worked on now, assuming that there is already a known buyer for the Electronic D&D IP...if a buyer is not yet known and/or it's unknown who will end up with the IP, then nothing will be able to be done till after the dust settles...and that could be a couple months beyond the July 19th sale (again assuming the D&D IP goes on sale on the 19th, and doen't fall under the category of "lesser" stuff they want to sell off directly).
If you're a glass half full kind of person (which I'm not), you could conceiveably assume that the Electronic D&D IP does, indeed, fall within the "lesser" stuff they are going to sell and that Atari is actually attempting to sell those rights directly to Beamdog...meaning that when all is said and done there would be NOTHING stopping them from doing whatever they wanted with the franchise...they would then own the publishing rights to the whole thing.
*shrug* I've never known a mega-corp to be kind, but that (Selling the entire Electronic D&D IP to a company like Beamdog/Overhaul) would be a huge Coup for all of us CRPG players...and would remove all obsticals to remaking all of the old D&D Games (as well as produce new ones).
Rainbow Colored sky and purple grass worlds aside, I expect beamdog is on hold because they're no longer legally allowed to work on the software. Unless they can convince the current license holder (I would assume that's Atari's bank) to allow a temporary continuance of the contract, we're all on hold till the Electronic D&D Rights get sold to someone...and Beamdog can work with that someone to see if they're still going to be able to get the rights to develop and produce it.
While it'll never happen, I'd LOVE to know how close my non-legal interpretation of the situation really is to reality.
Comments
ATARI: Casts Maze, Casts Time Stop
If Bioware get the IP rights again I can guarantee you we will be seeing much more of the series. That's likely a bad thing though. Think Baldur's Gate in DA:2 format. I would much rather Bethesda get a hold of it. At least they're sticking to their own standard.
(Just to complain about Atari) I've always had a real hard time with Atari in my life of gaming. The only single time I received any support from their customer service, out of several unanswered help requests from other games, was them telling me, "I'm sorry, we no longer provide support for that game." I guess we should have seen this coming.
But, I want to scream out "YOU GUYS AT OVERHAUL ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!" But of course, this is merely text, so capital letters and 13 exclamation points will just have to substitute for my shout of encouragement.
Don't let the legal mumbo-jumbo or the critics get you down, Overhaul!!! You guys are doing a great job!
"Evil around every corner, careful not to step in any..."
Of course they gain money from Overhaul's sales. Atari still have full control of the game giving Overhaul access to work on BG but with concrete limitation. If they had the power to tell Overhaul to remove it from sales, they wouldn't be daft enough to turn down a percentage through sales other than Steam.
As the dev's have said a number of times, they were "Requested" to remove the sale of their game on Beamdog/App store. Not forced. Indicating a gigantic pile of legal crap would be coming out of the rafters.
Don't get me wrong, your point is still valid. I could be completely wrong and perhaps I am just being optimistic. Optimistic or not, I consider my point quite valid also. I'm just trying to keep an open mind instead of hanging Atari before we know the truth.
With an uncertain future, sad news that it is, it's probably for the best that they removed it. Continuing to sell it would likely only muddy the water and cause even more problems.
If/when BG finds a buyer, then a new set of contracts will have to be signed with the new owner. The old contract with Atari, now a defunct company, would no longer be valid (unless the goodwill (current contracts, etc.) is included in the sale).
Here's hoping that if this is the case, the new owners are amicable. I have actually tried it and couldn't get it to install. Apparently there is an issue with the game disks, the game plays fine, but there are a couple files missing/corrupt (it could even be related to this). Even on sale, I'm not buying the GOG version after having already bought it in disk format when it was released and having bought BG:EE, too.
I really wanted to try it and get a personal opinion on it, but that's not going to happen any time soon...
(Which is also why I was delighted when BG:EE came along, and goes to show that it's not as hassle-free as some people make it out to be.)
edit: fixed quote tags
Follllllooowed by an original copy of Icewind Dale in considerable messed up condition. HoW in considerable messed up condition. IWD box set with HoW in almost messed up condition and IWD 2 in decent condition.
I now have all of the above with GoG, which (having looked at all I wrote above) is probably for the best considering by severe lack of disc appreciation. Somebody should take my old games off me - I don't deserve them.
Well we here say: Beamdog is an earthenware pot between the iron pots. I don't think Trent or the others can have any substantial weight into this legal matter.
Who will buy the Bg rights will decide the fate of bgee despite all the efforts Beamdog put on it.
I'm very sad, because bgee2 was almost finished, if the buyer is smart will let Beamdog finish this job and get his piece of cake
I think that until August (in the best of the hypothesis) we will know something.
To the nine hells with it - we should all start a kickstarter fund in order to go and buy our beloved Baldur's Gate in Manhatten on July 16th-19th. Finally the BG series shall be FREE!
This situation has thrown up some interesting questions though:
1. What exactly did Beamdog buy from Atari in regards to licensing for BG?
[/quote]
That's the point, Beamdog didn't BUY ANYTHING from Atari. Beamdog doesn't own the licence to ANY of this. It's being paid to develop and re-produce the existing game. This is why they can't modify any of it: They don't own the content or the rights to the content so they cannot legally modify it.
They may have paid a fee to produce the game, but that's nothing more than an agreement by the rights owner that you can, indeed, use those rights without owning them. Same as if you contact a company and ask if you can use a character or symbol of that company in a non-money making way.
This would also explain why the development staff is all but sitting on their hands at this point.
If I own the rights to something and agree to allow you to use that "something", that agreement only stands so long as I continue to hold the rights to the "something". The moment I no longer hold the rights, you no longer have the legal ability to use that something. The contract is void because I no longer have the legal right to honor that contract.
My guess is Atari no longer owns the rights to D&D...they're in bankruptcy, they own NOTHING. That likely means Beamdog no longer has the rights to produce or work with BG...the original agreement is either null and void (in the worst case) or on hold awaiting transfer to whatever company buys the intellectual rights to D&D from Atari...assuming whoever it is that purchases the rights agrees to allow development to continue.
WotC/Hasbro has little to nothing to do with any of this...they don't own the rights to the COMPUTER production of D&D, only to the printed / tabletop game and the original intellectual rights of D&D itself.
The computer game and the rights to the electronic production of D&D materials is likely in Atari's hands, and since Atari is now in Bankrupcy, they don't own them anymore...
Meaning any contracts dealing with those rights are now either void or on hold till the bankrupcy is settled.
I assume Beamdog/Overhaul is now trying to work with the Bank that owns Atari's Assets (till the sale or completion of the bankrupcy) to see if they can get the bank to re-open the contract with Atari allowing Beamdog/Overhual to continue producing, patching and working on the game till the legal sale to another company.
Note here too: This likely means yet another delay/work stoppage after or around the time of the sale of the Electronic D&D IP. I would assume that Beamdog/Overhaul will need to re-negotiate the contract with whoever picks up the rights to publish Electronic D&D stuff. That could all be being worked on now, assuming that there is already a known buyer for the Electronic D&D IP...if a buyer is not yet known and/or it's unknown who will end up with the IP, then nothing will be able to be done till after the dust settles...and that could be a couple months beyond the July 19th sale (again assuming the D&D IP goes on sale on the 19th, and doen't fall under the category of "lesser" stuff they want to sell off directly).
If you're a glass half full kind of person (which I'm not), you could conceiveably assume that the Electronic D&D IP does, indeed, fall within the "lesser" stuff they are going to sell and that Atari is actually attempting to sell those rights directly to Beamdog...meaning that when all is said and done there would be NOTHING stopping them from doing whatever they wanted with the franchise...they would then own the publishing rights to the whole thing.
*shrug* I've never known a mega-corp to be kind, but that (Selling the entire Electronic D&D IP to a company like Beamdog/Overhaul) would be a huge Coup for all of us CRPG players...and would remove all obsticals to remaking all of the old D&D Games (as well as produce new ones).
Rainbow Colored sky and purple grass worlds aside, I expect beamdog is on hold because they're no longer legally allowed to work on the software. Unless they can convince the current license holder (I would assume that's Atari's bank) to allow a temporary continuance of the contract, we're all on hold till the Electronic D&D Rights get sold to someone...and Beamdog can work with that someone to see if they're still going to be able to get the rights to develop and produce it.
While it'll never happen, I'd LOVE to know how close my non-legal interpretation of the situation really is to reality.