Ideally, and I know it won't be done on release or likely ever but ideally, I'd want BG2EE to be so integrated with BGEE as to check what kind of party you finished the game with and put the top 2 NPCs in the cages where Jaheira and Minsc are.
@blackchimes Yeah that won't be done ever; at least with this contract. The current contract prohibits such things as changing anything about the original NPCs. Content may only be added onto them. No original content can be changed in regards to them.
Ideally, and I know it won't be done on release or likely ever but ideally, I'd want BG2EE to be so integrated with BGEE as to check what kind of party you finished the game with and put the top 2 NPCs in the cages where Jaheira and Minsc are.
It would be a welcome change, but...want in one hand, wish in the other. My great grandmother had another version of that saying that would get me a couple of Abuse-flags.
Rassad does have a connection to the shadow thieves, so I would not be surprised to find him locked up in the thief stronghold, or else in the general dock area. Dorn is a wanted criminal, so he could easily sit in a cell next to Jan/hide in a less frequented area like the sewers or the graveyard. Neera is the hardest to place since she is so random and could pop up anyplace/anytime.
Dorn - got kidnapped by Irenicus just as everyone else, but busted out of his cell (located in a different part of Irenicus' dungeon) during the Shadow Thieves' attack. You meet him in Waukeen's promenade, right when Cowled Wizards teleport Irenicus out. Angry and willing to pay Irenicus back, he joins CHARNAME.
Neera - Waukeen's promenade, circus tent, falling for the illusions and under attack of shadows. She tried to lay low and get some work at the circus as an illusionist, which angered the little power-hungry gnome. You save her and she joins you for protection.
Rasaad - Docks, investigating Shadow Thieves and the Vampires. Willing to help CHARNAME, he joins without a lot of talking.
Baeloth - Copper Coronet, helping to run the gladiator pits. After a funny conversation, he will try to diss you, but flees after getting cut. Second time- you meet im upon entering Underdark. He finally got to get back, but then he sees you. Angry and afraid, lets out a rant about constantly meeting you and you always thwarting his plans (akin a villain of his own story). He then teleports back to surface hoping to avoid you in the future. Bonus points for a possible intermezzo - meeting him before in the underwater city in disguise, complementing his personal story of an unsuccessful villain.
@Southpaw I can safely confirm that Baeloth won't be returning in BG2EE, as he's a little busy (Phil has mentioned it previously)-- he's not the evil NPC to which we refer.
@Southpaw I can safely confirm that Baeloth won't be returning in BG2EE, as he's a little busy (Phil has mentioned it previously)-- he's not the evil NPC to which we refer.
I know he won't be recruitable, but I thought he'll make a cameo appearance.
The Forgotten Realms Campaign Set (http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/Walkthrough/athkatla.php, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athkatla) points out there's a Wave District located near the waterfront in Athkatla. It is not in the game yet, but ... maybe in BG2EE we'll see a seven-sided conical temple to Selûne - the Moonhall - it can be somehow included into the Docks District (I doubt it because of the contract limitations) or while travelling between the areas in the city (it's likely).
So, I think Rasaad can be met near the Moonhall at the new area while travelling in Athkatla. Somewhat similar to the Dorn's encounter in BG:EE. We'll hear about him coming to this temple and finding something that can be a start to his quest. Maybe we'll even explore this temple.
Personally, I'm interested in learing more about Selûne. Rasaad's quest is quite entertaining in BG:EE and I have a strong feeling this character will have an interesting quest in BG2:EE, partially because of the Moonhall.
I've pondered upon it some more and I started thinking "how were they placed in BG1" and then I realized they are all in the "canon" path. First you flee east to the FAI where you meet Dorn, you head south with Khalid and Jaheira passing through Beregost where you meet Neera. You continue south til you get to Nashkel where you meet Rasaad.
So if you go through those three areas, its nearly impossible to miss them.
In BG2, the path is a little less clear. You escape from Irenicus to Waukeens Promenade, having picked up three of your old BG buddies (losing Imoen though). You can pick up Yoshimo inside, and Aerie right outside, but then you only have one place to go, The Slums. Meet up with Gaelan Bayle (COO!!!) who forces you to his house, blah blah blah, go outside, and then you either go to the Copper Coronet or leave the district. Since the first place you ALWAYS go to when entering a new city is the tavern, that's obviously the correct path to take. Go inside... Nalia, Anomen, Korgan.
If it follows the BG1 system I would call it extremely likely that one of them would be inside. My guess would be Dorn.
After that, your path gets kind of tricky. You can go pretty much any direction from there, but I imagine "in character" you would probably take the route of what class stronghold quest you have to do. Druid, Paladin, FIghter, Mage (to get Valygar) and Ranger all take you outside the city. Bard goes to another plane. Thief and Cleric don't leave town.
Since five of those take you directly outside of the city... you've got to pass through the city gates. As is theres nothing there but a Lich and Daystar. I would say it has to be a sure thing that one of them will be there. Probably Rasaad.
That leaves one more to place. I really doubt they would put anyone outside of the city, keeping with the "easier to get than Valygar" idea. It really stumps me, where could you put someone that you can't miss in BG2 other than the Gate and Copper Coronet? What is the logical path for a new character to take when you have any direction to go to?
Docks seems like a good place to look because of the Thief class quest, the poisoned harper, Cromwell, and the 15,000 gold to the shadow thieves would all bring you there.
So that's my new guess, based off logic and reason: Copper Coronet, City Gate, and Docks, because they are the most unavoidable areas.
So that's my new guess, based off logic and reason: Copper Coronet, City Gate, and Docks, because they are the most unavoidable areas.
It was a very well reasoned and thought out analysis.
I think Neera will just randomly fall on top of you in a puff of pink smoke, while you're wandering around outside. She was probably just trying to cook something.
Dorn - got kidnapped by Irenicus just as everyone else, but busted out of his cell (located in a different part of Irenicus' dungeon) during the Shadow Thieves' attack. You meet him in Waukeen's promenade, right when Cowled Wizards teleport Irenicus out. Angry and willing to pay Irenicus back, he joins CHARNAME.
Neera - Waukeen's promenade, circus tent, falling for the illusions and under attack of shadows. She tried to lay low and get some work at the circus as an illusionist, which angered the little power-hungry gnome. You save her and she joins you for protection.
Rasaad - Docks, investigating Shadow Thieves and the Vampires. Willing to help CHARNAME, he joins without a lot of talking.
Baeloth - Copper Coronet, helping to run the gladiator pits. After a funny conversation, he will try to diss you, but flees after getting cut. Second time- you meet im upon entering Underdark. He finally got to get back, but then he sees you. Angry and afraid, lets out a rant about constantly meeting you and you always thwarting his plans (akin a villain of his own story). He then teleports back to surface hoping to avoid you in the future. Bonus points for a possible intermezzo - meeting him before in the underwater city in disguise, complementing his personal story of an unsuccessful villain.
I agree with both but the circus tent, for newcomers it doesnt make sense to get 2 mages at the same time - I speak of Aerie ofc. In fact, you will probably miss out of her now if you picked Neera over her.
Dorn - got kidnapped by Irenicus just as everyone else, but busted out of his cell (located in a different part of Irenicus' dungeon) during the Shadow Thieves' attack. You meet him in Waukeen's promenade, right when Cowled Wizards teleport Irenicus out. Angry and willing to pay Irenicus back, he joins CHARNAME.
Neera - Waukeen's promenade, circus tent, falling for the illusions and under attack of shadows. She tried to lay low and get some work at the circus as an illusionist, which angered the little power-hungry gnome. You save her and she joins you for protection.
Rasaad - Docks, investigating Shadow Thieves and the Vampires. Willing to help CHARNAME, he joins without a lot of talking.
Baeloth - Copper Coronet, helping to run the gladiator pits. After a funny conversation, he will try to diss you, but flees after getting cut. Second time- you meet im upon entering Underdark. He finally got to get back, but then he sees you. Angry and afraid, lets out a rant about constantly meeting you and you always thwarting his plans (akin a villain of his own story). He then teleports back to surface hoping to avoid you in the future. Bonus points for a possible intermezzo - meeting him before in the underwater city in disguise, complementing his personal story of an unsuccessful villain.
I agree with both but the circus tent, for newcomers it doesnt make sense to get 2 mages at the same time - I speak of Aerie ofc. In fact, you will probably miss out of her now if you picked Neera over her.
You might be right. But what Aerie? oh yea...you mean the ogre, that *pretends to be a beautiful elf*. I ain't falling for that. (lulz)
@Southpaw: Not to get off on a tangent, but if someone makes a mod where Aerie is eventually revealed to have been an ogre all along, they will make me a very happy man.
I want to see Dorn running the slavery ring. Instead of being all goody-two-shoes, you* can say nuts to Hendak, and partner up with Dorn for some extra income. Now that's evil!
My CHARNAME suggested to Rasaad that he run off and join the circus** so that's where I plan to find him
Neera... who knows? She turned herself into a squirrel and is gamboling around the fountains in the Government District. Bring peanuts.
*but not me, 'cause goody-two-shoes is how I roll **in a nice way
Perhaps Dorn will be hanging out with the Fallen Paladins. Maybe pals with Anarg and you can convince him to join you.
I hope for that, anything that give me an excuse to storm and kill paladins will be highly appreciated !
They all can be in new areas made for them on prupose, but who knows.
I see dorn in the following places:
- in the temple district fighting paladins and starting an automatic speech when you get near him. - With the fallen paladins, and with some hope, a way to change that quest cos the conclusion of the fallen paladin quest sucks. - Investigating the killer in the bridge district out of curiosity (or at least related with his deeds), maybe even being wrongly accused of the deeds and wanting vengance for that. - in the temple district working with talosites for some end (doubt of this one but, still...) - In the infernal plane where you land with the planar sphere, trapped there (that could lead to a lot of new content in that area). - hired by the evil lord in trademeet to poison the druid grove, so or you join him and make that quest in the evil way, or you don't get him at all.
Neera:
- Somehow i see her entraped in the twisted runes micro-plane, the one accessible by the door in the bridge district, but who knows. - Maybe in one of the forest areas that appear after chapter 6, but that would be a bit late game to get her, so maybe not.
Rasaad: His background says that he was in the slums in akhlata when his brother was "killed", so maybe after BG:EE he's going to get some answers from those events.
But, what i hope to exist, is some patron evolution for Dorn. In Ush Natha for example, would make a lot of sense if Dorn Betray his old demon patron in favor of the lesser demon lord there, after all he's a lot more powerful and his old patron isn't useful anymore. Patron evolutions would be awesome for Dorn (and pact with Demongorgon would be nice also, but i kinda doubt this to happen).
This way, you can introduce three NEW NPCs for BG2:EE in Athkatla!
I'm pretty sure Dee already said there would be one entirely new NPC, in addition to Neera, Dorn and Rassad.
And to be honest, I want quality, not quantity. I know they can't do too much with regards to new NPC and old NPC interaction due to contract issues, but I really hope the new NPCs fit seamlessly into the BG 2 story, and hopefully interact at least a little with the old ones where appropriate.
While I agree with you on quality over quantity, there are several conspicuously large holes in the NPC lineup. In that, I don't think that a blitzkrieg of NPCs is necessary, I do hope that we see more than simply Dorn/Neera/Rassad/Evil Thief-type out there.
As it stands, if I want to run a band of Bloody Mummers, my choices are pretty limited:
Viconia Edwin Korgan
Adding Dorn and the new (potential) evil thief type does round out the roster at 5, this is still no where near the list of options available to goodly parties. And for those of us who don't rush through chapter 2, Edwin and the new evil thief type are likely not going to be available for several hours of game play at least.
I am happy with whatever goodness they give us. I hope that they give us more than just those listed.
Judging from what we've seen in BG:EE, I think the following are likely:
1: They will not be attached to any pre-existing quest. Instead, they will each have their own unique quest that will tie into their romance lines.
2: Their unique quests will not be immediately available, you'll have to wait for them to ask you for help.
3: They will be located near the beginning of the game, to allow enough time for enough of their romance talks to activate before they want you to go on their quest.
4: They will introduce a few new areas in relation to their quests. Since Rasaad and Neera already got a new area, I'm guessing that Dorn and the new NPC will have new areas.
Here are my guesses, spoilered for length and small BG2 spoilers:
Dorn:
Dorn has finished with the vengeance that was his central storyline in BG:EE, so he'll be looking for something to do. I would say the Copper Coronet would be a good place, but it's a bit crowded, with Korgan, Anomen, and Nalia all being there already. As someone earlier said, there really isn't anything interesting in the City gates, so I'll guess that he is drowning his sorrows as he was in BG:EE.
Neera:
Perpetually on the run, Neera will be in trouble and needing help as always, and potentially in a slightly comical fashion. Her quest to find a way to control her wild magic with Adoy's help was a failure in BG:EE, but gave her the idea that there may be magic items to help control or at least mitigate the effects of wild magic. So, she will be in Waukeen's Promenade, looking in the magic shops for helpful items. I'm thinking that when you walk by an un-enterable doorway along the northern edge of the promenade, she will come running out, followed by two ruffians who had been harassing her, followed by a pit fiend which she had accidentally summoned. The fiend kills the ruffians and then you must battle the fiend yourself. When the battle is finished, a couple cowled wizards with teleport in to "defend the public" from the demonic entity they detected. You'll have to lie to the wizards and say that Neera did not summon the demon, at which point she will join you.
Rasaad:
Rasaad has history in Athkatla, if you will recall his story in BG:EE. He will still be looking for answers about why he was attacked by the Dark Moon Monks. I'm thinking he will be somewhere in the Docks, trying to find something out about the Shar sect, and failing. Recognizing you, he will reason that he is making little headway on his own, and that he will at least be doing great deeds at your side, and ask to join you. His quest will pick back up when you return from the Underdark.
New NPC:
Rumor has it that the new NPC will be an evil female thief. Being a thief in Amn, it would be easy to assume that she will be a shadow thief. That's why I think she is indeed not a shadow thief, it's just too obvious. Rather, I'm guessing that she will be found in the Graveyard district, hoping to joing this new assassin's guild that she has heard about. Not wanting to be made into a vampire, she'll offer to joing with you instead, and she guesses that you have plenty of blood on your hands.
I don't know if any information is available on this already, but I would love to speculate on how the new NPCs are introduced in BG2:EE.
Especially I'm curious about Dorn. Seeing as he was left to die in a dungeon by his former comrades, I'm thinking it would have a fitting ring to it if he did the same to CHARNAME to avoid being trapped in Irenicus' dungeon.
Rasaad would probably need a pretty good reason to return to Athkatla given his past there, I think.
When it comes to Neera she should definitely be hunted by the Cowled Wizards as well as the reds.
Comments
Dorn is a wanted criminal, so he could easily sit in a cell next to Jan/hide in a less frequented area like the sewers or the graveyard.
Neera is the hardest to place since she is so random and could pop up anyplace/anytime.
Neera - Waukeen's promenade, circus tent, falling for the illusions and under attack of shadows. She tried to lay low and get some work at the circus as an illusionist, which angered the little power-hungry gnome. You save her and she joins you for protection.
Rasaad - Docks, investigating Shadow Thieves and the Vampires. Willing to help CHARNAME, he joins without a lot of talking.
Baeloth - Copper Coronet, helping to run the gladiator pits. After a funny conversation, he will try to diss you, but flees after getting cut. Second time- you meet im upon entering Underdark. He finally got to get back, but then he sees you. Angry and afraid, lets out a rant about constantly meeting you and you always thwarting his plans (akin a villain of his own story). He then teleports back to surface hoping to avoid you in the future. Bonus points for a possible intermezzo - meeting him before in the underwater city in disguise, complementing his personal story of an unsuccessful villain.
@blackchimes- no. do you?
So, I think Rasaad can be met near the Moonhall at the new area while travelling in Athkatla. Somewhat similar to the Dorn's encounter in BG:EE. We'll hear about him coming to this temple and finding something that can be a start to his quest. Maybe we'll even explore this temple.
Personally, I'm interested in learing more about Selûne. Rasaad's quest is quite entertaining in BG:EE and I have a strong feeling this character will have an interesting quest in BG2:EE, partially because of the Moonhall.
So if you go through those three areas, its nearly impossible to miss them.
In BG2, the path is a little less clear. You escape from Irenicus to Waukeens Promenade, having picked up three of your old BG buddies (losing Imoen though). You can pick up Yoshimo inside, and Aerie right outside, but then you only have one place to go, The Slums. Meet up with Gaelan Bayle (COO!!!) who forces you to his house, blah blah blah, go outside, and then you either go to the Copper Coronet or leave the district. Since the first place you ALWAYS go to when entering a new city is the tavern, that's obviously the correct path to take. Go inside... Nalia, Anomen, Korgan.
If it follows the BG1 system I would call it extremely likely that one of them would be inside. My guess would be Dorn.
After that, your path gets kind of tricky. You can go pretty much any direction from there, but I imagine "in character" you would probably take the route of what class stronghold quest you have to do. Druid, Paladin, FIghter, Mage (to get Valygar) and Ranger all take you outside the city. Bard goes to another plane. Thief and Cleric don't leave town.
Since five of those take you directly outside of the city... you've got to pass through the city gates. As is theres nothing there but a Lich and Daystar. I would say it has to be a sure thing that one of them will be there. Probably Rasaad.
That leaves one more to place. I really doubt they would put anyone outside of the city, keeping with the "easier to get than Valygar" idea. It really stumps me, where could you put someone that you can't miss in BG2 other than the Gate and Copper Coronet? What is the logical path for a new character to take when you have any direction to go to?
Docks seems like a good place to look because of the Thief class quest, the poisoned harper, Cromwell, and the 15,000 gold to the shadow thieves would all bring you there.
So that's my new guess, based off logic and reason: Copper Coronet, City Gate, and Docks, because they are the most unavoidable areas.
I think Neera will just randomly fall on top of you in a puff of pink smoke, while you're wandering around outside. She was probably just trying to cook something.
Telepors from Baldur's Gate to Athkatla
That needs one of them advice animal things.
oh yea...you mean the ogre, that *pretends to be a beautiful elf*. I ain't falling for that.
(lulz)
My CHARNAME suggested to Rasaad that he run off and join the circus** so that's where I plan to find him
Neera... who knows? She turned herself into a squirrel and is gamboling around the fountains in the Government District. Bring peanuts.
*but not me, 'cause goody-two-shoes is how I roll
**in a nice way
They all can be in new areas made for them on prupose, but who knows.
I see dorn in the following places:
- in the temple district fighting paladins and starting an automatic speech when you get near him.
- With the fallen paladins, and with some hope, a way to change that quest cos the conclusion of the fallen paladin quest sucks.
- Investigating the killer in the bridge district out of curiosity (or at least related with his deeds), maybe even being wrongly accused of the deeds and wanting vengance for that.
- in the temple district working with talosites for some end (doubt of this one but, still...)
- In the infernal plane where you land with the planar sphere, trapped there (that could lead to a lot of new content in that area).
- hired by the evil lord in trademeet to poison the druid grove, so or you join him and make that quest in the evil way, or you don't get him at all.
Neera:
- Somehow i see her entraped in the twisted runes micro-plane, the one accessible by the door in the bridge district, but who knows.
- Maybe in one of the forest areas that appear after chapter 6, but that would be a bit late game to get her, so maybe not.
Rasaad: His background says that he was in the slums in akhlata when his brother was "killed", so maybe after BG:EE he's going to get some answers from those events.
But, what i hope to exist, is some patron evolution for Dorn. In Ush Natha for example, would make a lot of sense if Dorn Betray his old demon patron in favor of the lesser demon lord there, after all he's a lot more powerful and his old patron isn't useful anymore.
Patron evolutions would be awesome for Dorn (and pact with Demongorgon would be nice also, but i kinda doubt this to happen).
As it stands, if I want to run a band of Bloody Mummers, my choices are pretty limited:
Viconia
Edwin
Korgan
Adding Dorn and the new (potential) evil thief type does round out the roster at 5, this is still no where near the list of options available to goodly parties. And for those of us who don't rush through chapter 2, Edwin and the new evil thief type are likely not going to be available for several hours of game play at least.
I am happy with whatever goodness they give us. I hope that they give us more than just those listed.
1: They will not be attached to any pre-existing quest. Instead, they will each have their own unique quest that will tie into their romance lines.
2: Their unique quests will not be immediately available, you'll have to wait for them to ask you for help.
3: They will be located near the beginning of the game, to allow enough time for enough of their romance talks to activate before they want you to go on their quest.
4: They will introduce a few new areas in relation to their quests. Since Rasaad and Neera already got a new area, I'm guessing that Dorn and the new NPC will have new areas.
Here are my guesses, spoilered for length and small BG2 spoilers:
Dorn:
Neera:
Rasaad:
New NPC:
I don't know if any information is available on this already, but I would love to speculate on how the new NPCs are introduced in BG2:EE.
Especially I'm curious about Dorn. Seeing as he was left to die in a dungeon by his former comrades, I'm thinking it would have a fitting ring to it if he did the same to CHARNAME to avoid being trapped in Irenicus' dungeon.
Rasaad would probably need a pretty good reason to return to Athkatla given his past there, I think.
When it comes to Neera she should definitely be hunted by the Cowled Wizards as well as the reds.
Ideas? Opinions?
I kinda did something like this already...