The long version: in theory, BP-Ascension is compatible with BG2:EE, but there haven't been any reports here of organized bug-testing. What's more, BP isn't being actively supported anymore, so if there are bugs, I don't know if anyone's willing to do anything about them.
On the other hand, Cuv's version has been in the works since last November, and it's explicitly not a priority for him (see Apr. 25 post), so if you're thinking of waiting... well, join the club and take a number.
"BP" just means it's from the Big Picture's megamod - and I understand the modders of that megamod one day just included the original Ascension into the mix.
So, yes, this BP Ascension that we all are talking about, is indeed identical to the original Ascension.
Theoretically, what is somsone was to pay a modder around a thousand US dollars to midwife Ascension into BG2EE - would that be enough money for a person skilled in infinity engine modding to devote about a month of their time to the project? Though if they did take the money, they'd be morally obligated to ensure all the bugs are squashed, and the mod itself runs according to the newest standards.
I'm not saying we start a Kickstarter or anything; just wondering how much it would cost.
"BP" just means it's from the Big Picture's megamod - and I understand the modders of that megamod one day just included the original Ascension into the mix.
So, yes, this BP Ascension that we all are talking about, is indeed identical to the original Ascension.
I love this idea tbh. If someone were to guarantee a streamlined process for payment and result, it'd get done in no time at all.
You have my $5 and my attention. For $10 i want the collectors edition, deleted scenes from the deleted portion of the game, interviews with the cast and crew and a thank you in the credits!!!
Theoretically, what is somsone was to pay a modder around a thousand US dollars to midwife Ascension into BG2EE - would that be enough money for a person skilled in infinity engine modding to devote about a month of their time to the project? Though if they did take the money, they'd be morally obligated to ensure all the bugs are squashed, and the mod itself runs according to the newest standards.
I'm not saying we start a Kickstarter or anything; just wondering how much it would cost.
Hrm. It's an iffy prospect at best. Modding is a product of fandom, always has been; it's not like anyone's paying @AstroBryGuy and his team for the amazing work they've done with BG1NPC.
On the other hand, "Ascension" has always had special status by virtue of David Gaider's input. And if I'm being completely honest with myself? Yeah, I'd be tempted to chuck $5 in the pot if I knew it would result in real time and effort being put into EE compatibility. This is the one mod that should've been fully adapted from launch.
We were all hoping for Ascension to just ship with the game as-is
On this I don't, because the users should be allowed to choose which components to install and that's possible only if it stays a separate mod.
Just consider what they did with 1PP and, on some extent, with ToBEx. Only part of these two mods were included in the Enhanced Edition and now it is not possible to install the rest, or customise in any way the installation with regard to the features concerning these two mods.
@Erg: That's entirely to do with the Improved battle components, though - why should users be allowed to choose whether the Slayer form should evolve, or whether you can give Sarevok's sword back to him in ToB, or whether Viconia should have separate epilogues for Evil and Neutral alignments? And setting all that aside? If users want that level of personal customization, they can always go back to the originals.
@Lord_Tansheron: That's actually not the reason given by the devs; as I recall, Dee claimed that Beamdog could have integrated Ascension, they just chose not to for fear of enraging the fans. It's nonsense, of course - as if Beamdog haven't made a dozen other changes, aesthetic or substantial, that ran that same "risk" - but contractual limitations had nothing to do with it.
If users want that level of personal customization, they can always go back to the originals.
First of all, I personally already went back to the originals and the fact that I indeed want that level of customisation is one of the main reasons why I did it.
That said, it works both ways, because I could reply to you that if you really want this mod so bad you can always go back to the originals yourself. So why didn't you ? :P
@Erg: So your argument is that the originals and the EEs should have the exact same features? What's the point, then? The originals still exist as the alternative for players who want to customize the game and mod layout. Beamdog, by contrast, made certain choices that were meant to define the Enhanced Editions as separate and distinct. Integrating 1PP was one such choice; eliminating popular exploits like the inventory trick at the start of BG2 was another. Ascension (or, at least, the core story content) should have fallen under the same purview, for the same reason.
Your problem is, and has always been, your assumption that the EEs need to be as customizable as the originals. That was never the point here.
There really is little reason for an in-built Ascension to be customizable, if you simply leave out the improved SCS-style AI scripting. That way all you get is a bit more interesting battles (and the vanilla ToB boss battles are VERY easy) plus a TON of flavor. Users who want to experience a good challenge could then have simply rolled with SCS, which already supported Ascension in its scripting anyway, and gotten the difficulty they like as they like it.
But all this is a moot discussion anyway. Things are as they are. I've waited half a year for Ascension to come out; it hasn't. I installed BP Ascension now and will give it a try, let's hope it's a smooth run.
So your argument is that the originals and the EEs should have the exact same features?
This is not my argument, but you made a career out of misrepresenting my, and other people, words, so I will not waste my time trying to change your mind
I, for one, don't want all the features of Ascension (and I don't mean just the "improved battle components") or other mods, and that is the case for both the original game and the enhanced edition.
Customisability is an added value for every game, old and new, and if you are so logic as you think you are you can only agree with that.
Customisability is an added value for every game, old and new
True, but keep in mind that customization options also tend to add degrees of complexity, and that can spiral out of control quickly. Given that the original BG games had only a single real customization option (the difficulty slider) I think adding more via some new system would have added unnecessary complications.
Also, you could always make the argument that people who don't like certain Ascension features (like which? Aren't the only options you have the various improved battles?) could have just modded them out; sort of the reverse of how things are now
But yeah, things are done and done. No point in arguing philosophical differences when the powers that be have made the decisions for us already.
@Sergio: That's really not what's going on at the Throne, though, even in the vanilla version. Every time you kill one of the Five, their essence transfers to Amelyssan - she gets stronger as you go along, not weaker.
I was merely complaining about the fact that Melissan needed time to absorb the essence of every single bhaalspawn out there. Yet, you killed the other children of Bhaal in two hours, and Melissan is able to get enough essence to summon them to do thy bidding and to be strong enough to challenge the most powerful bhaalspawn of all time?
Why not? Let's say there are 50 Bhaalspawn. We know that Sarevok kills at least one at the start of the first game, and presumably he had time to hunt down a few more before you put him down. So now there's 40. Five of them band together and start slaughtering the others - for the sake of argument, let's say they get about 10 while the rest flee to Saradush. At the start of ToB, you have the Five, Gromnir and his guards (some of whom are confirmed to be Bhaalspawn), survivors like Viekang and Oris Nimblefinger, and the four Bhaalspawn (with the chinchilla) lurking outside Yaga-Shura's lair.
You kill Gromnir and the other Bhaalspawn guards. Saradush falls. You take out the Chinchilla's squad, and finally eliminate the Five. Amelyssan now has the essence of 48 Bhaalspawn (47 if you're using Ascension and have recruited Balthazar) while you and Imoen are left. That amount of power certainly justifies her ability to summon anyone and anything she wants at that point.
@Sergio: It doesn't matter how strong or weak any specific Bhaalspawn is. They don't have more or less of Bhaal's divine essence either way, and they can't steal essence from each other.
I'm agreeing with @shawne, this isn't Highlander where you kill your fellows, gain their power, and ultimately grow stronger. So then there is only one and win "The Game" and gain your prize. Though, it seems kind of obvious that most of the Baldur's Gate Saga seems to be based on, or at least inspired by, Highlander.
Everyone feels the influence of the taint - if you take Ascension as canon, even Imoen starts having dreams and can eventually turn into the Slayer as well. But most of the Bhaalspawn who are aware of their heritage were told as much by other people: Gorion tells you in his letter, a priest of Bhaal told Sarevok, Irenicus tells Imoen, and presumably Amelyssan told the Five and Gromnir.
Bhaal's plan wouldn't have worked if different children had different amounts of essence: the whole point is that they're all supposed to die in order for him to return.
Canonically, the player survives because he/she is part of an adventuring group (and while the intro to BG2 suggests Jaheira, Imoen, Minsc, Khalid and Dynaheir, dialogue allows you to establish existing ties with Xzar, Safana, Viconia and Edwin as well). There's nothing special about that.
Comments
The long version: in theory, BP-Ascension is compatible with BG2:EE, but there haven't been any reports here of organized bug-testing. What's more, BP isn't being actively supported anymore, so if there are bugs, I don't know if anyone's willing to do anything about them.
On the other hand, Cuv's version has been in the works since last November, and it's explicitly not a priority for him (see Apr. 25 post), so if you're thinking of waiting... well, join the club and take a number.
"BP" just means it's from the Big Picture's megamod - and I understand the modders of that megamod one day just included the original Ascension into the mix.
So, yes, this BP Ascension that we all are talking about, is indeed identical to the original Ascension.
I'm not saying we start a Kickstarter or anything; just wondering how much it would cost.
On the other hand, "Ascension" has always had special status by virtue of David Gaider's input. And if I'm being completely honest with myself? Yeah, I'd be tempted to chuck $5 in the pot if I knew it would result in real time and effort being put into EE compatibility. This is the one mod that should've been fully adapted from launch.
Just consider what they did with 1PP and, on some extent, with ToBEx. Only part of these two mods were included in the Enhanced Edition and now it is not possible to install the rest, or customise in any way the installation with regard to the features concerning these two mods.
@Lord_Tansheron: That's actually not the reason given by the devs; as I recall, Dee claimed that Beamdog could have integrated Ascension, they just chose not to for fear of enraging the fans. It's nonsense, of course - as if Beamdog haven't made a dozen other changes, aesthetic or substantial, that ran that same "risk" - but contractual limitations had nothing to do with it.
That said, it works both ways, because I could reply to you that if you really want this mod so bad you can always go back to the originals yourself. So why didn't you ? :P
Your problem is, and has always been, your assumption that the EEs need to be as customizable as the originals. That was never the point here.
But all this is a moot discussion anyway. Things are as they are. I've waited half a year for Ascension to come out; it hasn't. I installed BP Ascension now and will give it a try, let's hope it's a smooth run.
I, for one, don't want all the features of Ascension (and I don't mean just the "improved battle components") or other mods, and that is the case for both the original game and the enhanced edition.
Customisability is an added value for every game, old and new, and if you are so logic as you think you are you can only agree with that.
Also, you could always make the argument that people who don't like certain Ascension features (like which? Aren't the only options you have the various improved battles?) could have just modded them out; sort of the reverse of how things are now
But yeah, things are done and done. No point in arguing philosophical differences when the powers that be have made the decisions for us already.
Viconia is a priestess of Shar, no way she would side with another wannabe god, especially one thats so weak.
Edwin would... probably turn traitor. Yeah, hes about as power hungry as they come.
Haer'Dalis, though chaotic neutral and not actually evil, might switch sides if he thinks it would benefit the cause of entropy. Hes weird like that.
But yeah, I like Ascension the way it is.
You kill Gromnir and the other Bhaalspawn guards. Saradush falls. You take out the Chinchilla's squad, and finally eliminate the Five. Amelyssan now has the essence of 48 Bhaalspawn (47 if you're using Ascension and have recruited Balthazar) while you and Imoen are left. That amount of power certainly justifies her ability to summon anyone and anything she wants at that point.
Bhaal's plan wouldn't have worked if different children had different amounts of essence: the whole point is that they're all supposed to die in order for him to return.
Canonically, the player survives because he/she is part of an adventuring group (and while the intro to BG2 suggests Jaheira, Imoen, Minsc, Khalid and Dynaheir, dialogue allows you to establish existing ties with Xzar, Safana, Viconia and Edwin as well). There's nothing special about that.
Just to clarify, @Cuv version, not the actual Big Picture.