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Why does everyone say Viconia is the best cleric?

FarayFaray Member Posts: 10
in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
I always hear how Viconia is the best cleric, but I usually don’t have the chance as I play a good party. This time I’m doing netural and taking whoever I wish. However I don’t understand what makes Viconia so great. She has 19DEX which is nice, and 18 WIS which is real nice, but that’s only 2 more than the other clerics. However she has no offensive capacity other than a sling. Anomen makes a great front liner with his high Strength and Con, and the gauntlets of dex can bring his DEX up to to make up for it only being at 10. Aerie is frail like Vic but can cast mage spells as well giving her double duty.

So maybe it’s something I’m missing, because I just don’t see what makes Viconia so good. I really don’t feel the two extra spell slots she gets makes up for the low strength and con that Anomen has over her, or the mage spells that Aerie have.
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Comments

  • AmardarialAmardarial Member Posts: 270
    Magic Resistance, and Viconia can front line just fine, all in the spells/gear
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    I dont think she is either. I also find Aerie, or even Anomen to be better (never played the latter).

    And Jaheira is also much stronger and can tank and melee too.
  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 636
    Jaheira lacks some very important spells, like restorations.

    Aerie is an extremely good healer, if you give her the robe of veccna.
    Instant cast Heal anyone?
    However, she levels as a healer at half the xp rate Viccy does.. bit of a setback.

    Anomen really is a powerhouse, if you have him use FoA or Crom he'll smash just about anything and heal you up good.

    However.. when you want/need a healer that will keep you and your party ticking for as long as possible Viccy is the best choice. Her high AC and Magic Resist makes her extremely reliable in terms of not having her casting interrupted, which at the end of the day is the most important feature for a healbot.

    Cernd? Well.. I don't know, I can't tolerate his presence at all. And theoretically, he should suck :P
  • HandofTyrHandofTyr Member Posts: 106
    Let's see.

    They both lose out on a 3rd and 4th level spell compared to Viconia, which isn't a big deal in the long run, but it is a nice bonus early game.

    Aerie is a multi-class, so she gains levels really slowly come later game, and will end up with a weaker caster level. Anomen should be F7/C39 at cap, and Viconia's C40, while Aerie is M20/C25 or so. This means that Aerie has 4 fewer 7th level spells and 1 fewer 6th level.

    Anomen is a better frontliner than Viconia, absolutely. Though your comparison is a little flawed, as Viconia could use the slot Anomen is using to take the Dex gauntlets to get 18/00 strength. Viconia's big advantage, other than the couple of extra spells, is her natural drow magic resistance (50%?), which can help protect her from a lot of stuff. Also, this has nothing to do with power, but a lot of people really don't like Anomen.

    The nutshell version- Viconia is the best caster of cleric spells, but not necessarily the best character out of the three.
  • FarayFaray Member Posts: 10
    I didn't know she had such high magic resistance, that helps. I guess my main thing is I never saw a use for a full time heal bot in BG1 or BG2 in both my plays. Usually I have the clerics buff and if they need to throw out a heal they can but not the whole time. I guess it's just a play style thing then.

    I just keep seeing websites/people saying "VICONIA IS THE BEST NO QUESTIONS!!!!!!!!" and I disagree.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Viconia's 65% magic resistance makes hardly any sense lore-wise. Her in-game biography actually states that her drow powers have diminished since coming to the surface (as one would expect) but somehow this increased her MR by 15% rather than decreasing it by 15%, like one would expect =/
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Skeleton warrior spam goes a long way to making up her lack of melee power. She can constantly turn undead without blasting her own skeletons as well. And being able to hit 100% magic resistance lets her trivialize some encounters where brute force won't help. But you do have to adapt your tactics to her strengths and if those don't suit you then you'd better look elsewhere. So yeah, I wouldn't say she's the best for everyone but she can be the best for you if your strategy fits her strengths.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited November 2013
    In the original game she used to have Holy Smite. It didn't make any sense but provided you didn't cast it on her it was very useful. Anyways, in BG2EE she doesn't start with it and she instead starts with Unholy Blight. Thats kind of a big loss for her and its why Anomen is the better caster.
    cervanntes said:

    A few things make Viconia nice.

    First, she is NOT a front line fighter, and if that's how you want to use your cleric, she's definitely the wrong one (without a lot of TLC with magic gear, anyway). More to the point, the fact that she isn't in the front lines is what makes her a good cleric instead of a second-rate tank. A cleric that isn't using cleric spells or abilities is just a subpar fighter.

    Second, if you think she has no offensive capability other than the sling, you're clearly not counting the plethora of damage-dealing, crippling, and otherwise aggressive cleric spells as being offensive capabilities. Again, Viconia belongs in the back, hurling destructive spells at the enemy and supporting her own team with heals and buffs, not swinging maces or even using the sling, although she can certainly do either when necessary, and the latter rather well.

    Yea she really lacks a "plethora of damage-dealing, crippling, and otherwise aggressive cleric spells" before I'd say she gains access to level 7 spells. With level 7 spells its a different story but before that point she basically has Flame Strike, the touch attack spells (like Harm), Bolt of Glory, False Dawn, and Unholy Blight (the latter of which isn't going to be very useful) in terms of her damage spells. Three of those are level 6 spells which kind of limits her offensive spellcasting opportunity. She also gets Greater Command of course but because of a lack of penalty towards saving throws I've never really found it to be all that effective without the use of Greater Malison. Spell wise Anomen tend to match her.

    Anyways she's a great cleric because of her dexterity and magic resistance (and the sheer amount of dialogue she has in the game) but I don't think its her offensive spellcasting that makes her any better than Anomen (though it is possible to pick her up at a higher cleric level than you can pick up Anomen at).
    Post edited by elminster on
  • LureLure Member Posts: 3
    Lots of good clerics in the game. I'd rate Vic and Anomen pretty close. Those extra spells of Vic are certainly nice as is the MR. Anomen's better THACO is certainly nice as is the weapon spec possibilities.
    All depends!
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    Schneidend said:

    Vic's AC and magical resistance are insane, and that "only two" extra points of Wisdom mean more spells. Her only real weakness is a lack of Strength, which items or spells easily solve. 4th, 5th, and 6th-level spell slots can all be used to eliminate her lack of Fighter THAC0.

    Giant Belts FTW!!
    Or that +2 Mace that raises STR to 18. And those Gauntlets of Ogre Power from BG1. :D:D She is so cheesy!
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    CrevsDaak said:

    Schneidend said:

    Vic's AC and magical resistance are insane, and that "only two" extra points of Wisdom mean more spells. Her only real weakness is a lack of Strength, which items or spells easily solve. 4th, 5th, and 6th-level spell slots can all be used to eliminate her lack of Fighter THAC0.

    Giant Belts FTW!!
    Or that +2 Mace that raises STR to 18. And those Gauntlets of Ogre Power from BG1. :D:D She is so cheesy!
    Which +2 Mace is that? O_o

    There are seriously enough +Str items in BG2, though. You get the 18/00 Gauntlets, and Belts for 19, 20, and 21 (and 22 in ToB, as well as a 22 Str Longsword). Even if you sacrifice the 18/00 and 21 items for Crom Faeyr, you're still left with 2 very nice Str belts by the end of SoA.
  • AkihikoAkihiko Member Posts: 213
    Eudaemonium said:

    CrevsDaak said:

    Schneidend said:

    Vic's AC and magical resistance are insane, and that "only two" extra points of Wisdom mean more spells. Her only real weakness is a lack of Strength, which items or spells easily solve. 4th, 5th, and 6th-level spell slots can all be used to eliminate her lack of Fighter THAC0.

    Giant Belts FTW!!
    Or that +2 Mace that raises STR to 18. And those Gauntlets of Ogre Power from BG1. :D:D She is so cheesy!
    Which +2 Mace is that? O_o

    There are seriously enough +Str items in BG2, though. You get the 18/00 Gauntlets, and Belts for 19, 20, and 21 (and 22 in ToB, as well as a 22 Str Longsword). Even if you sacrifice the 18/00 and 21 items for Crom Faeyr, you're still left with 2 very nice Str belts by the end of SoA.
    I forget what it's called, but it's sold at the Copper Coronet after you help Hendak.
  • cervanntescervanntes Member Posts: 64
    elminster said:

    I don't think its her offensive spellcasting that makes her any better than Anomen (though it is possible to pick her up at a higher cleric level than you can pick up Anomen at).


    Agreed, but that wasn't my point. The original poster had said that Viconia had no offensive capacity other than the sling. I was pointing out that in fact she has more options than just weapons, and that I feel it's generally better not to have your main cleric in the front ranks where they are easy to disrupt if they need to cast, since their magic is their forte, not swordplay. And by extension, she makes a slightly better cleric simply because being a cleric is her best option, whereas Anomen, may find himself in the front lines and not able to use his clerical abilities as freely if he's being played as a combat character instead of a cleric. In short, while being part fighter makes Anomen a more versatile character, it doesn't necessarily make him a better *cleric*.
  • JTMJTM Member Posts: 70
    nano said:

    Skeleton warrior spam goes a long way to making up her lack of melee power. She can constantly turn undead without blasting her own skeletons as well. And being able to hit 100% magic resistance lets her trivialize some encounters where brute force won't help. But you do have to adapt your tactics to her strengths and if those don't suit you then you'd better look elsewhere. So yeah, I wouldn't say she's the best for everyone but she can be the best for you if your strategy fits her strengths.

    Agree. Viconia is just excellent in magic user battles...Especially after getting her MR to 100%+. An excellent npc cleric to take all the way end game. I never had a problem with her as long her strengths are understood and not misused.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    It all comes down to how you use your cleric. Personally, I tend to prefer Jaheira (sometimes Anomen), because I like my divine spellcasters to be able to do double duty on the front line, and I usually rely on stolen restoration scrolls and tanking with level drain protection items. Or else I'll use Aerie and have her double as a mage. On top of that, most of the cleric spells I prefer are used as pre-buffs, or Holy Smite (which Viccy doesn't get). I find the need for divine healing in BG2 is much reduced thanks to the ready supply of potions of extra healing and the potential 2 rings of regeneration which can be used to heal up as you're wandering around the map. All of that means that Viconia falls to the bottom of my list, despite her Magic Resistance.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    but booooooobs
  • FarayFaray Member Posts: 10
    I guess to everyone supporting vic, does her low con/hp hurt her as well? I guess the magic resist makes up for it, since my biggest fear with her would be seeing her get one shot by a high damage spell or something.

    Also... now I remember in BG1 she could resist positive spells (Or I'm just remembering wrong) does this still happen in BG2?

    Need to see the discussion is civil... unlike many other forums I see.
  • AcridSyphilisAcridSyphilis Member Posts: 129
    BG2 beneficial spells don't trigger magic resistance, and I dont think it does in BG:EE though I might be wrong. For me, Viconia tanks pretty well despite her low hp if you give her a str belt. Her high AC and high magic resistance make up for the weakness of her HP imo.
  • CoutelierCoutelier Member Posts: 1,282
    edited November 2013
    booinyoureyes said:

    but booooooobs

    Why does everyone say Viconia is the best cleric? Do those answer your question?
  • Big_MurrayBig_Murray Member Posts: 69
    Honestly, I find Viconia to be pretty good as a front-line cleric once you equip her with something to raise her strength. I have her equipped right now with the Girdle of Hill Giant Strength to get her up to 19 STR, then I've got her using the Flail of Ages in conjunction with Sentinel and Doomplate armour. She deals quite a bit of damage with the flail and has an armour class of -10.

    It's Jaheria I could never get to be a decent front-liner. She just never dealt much damage.
  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    Viconia is the better spell-casting/support cleric, and Anomen is the better combat cleric. Viconia can play back-lines all day with slings and cast support spells to buff the party and keep them from getting nasty status effects. With a few buffs she can actually head out into the fray herself and dish out massive damage in melee, which would put her almost on par with Anomen in terms of front-line combat. Viconia's biggest problem is that she's "Evil" for all of SoA and can only be made "Good" in ToB, and that's if you're in a relationship with her. Why is it bad that she's evil? No Holy Smite!

    Anomen however can achieve grand-mastery in any weapon a cleric can use, and honestly with enough pips in Flails or Maces, he can easily dominate the frontlines with little micromanagement, and less spells dedicated to buffs and more to casting. (he could sure use those gauntlets of dexterity though)

    Which one you use in your party is honestly unimportant; they're both fantastic, in their own way. Then there's Aerie, but she's unique in the sense that she can spell sequence/contingency cleric spells, and with Robe of Vecna she can drastically lower her casting time of any divine spell (or mage spell). Spell Sequencer + 3 Holy Smites is no joke.
  • PhyraxPhyrax Member Posts: 198
    Don't know if the point has been made, but Viconia is also a lot more aesthetically appealing than either Anomen or Aerie (I like to call her Eerie, she gives me the creeps and I vehemently take offense to her whining).

    That being said, Viconia also has a better background story than Eerie or Anomen (though the latter is also interesting!) and you know her from BG1 (which makes sense for role-playing reasons).
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Big_Murray said:

    Honestly, I find Viconia to be pretty good as a front-line cleric once you equip her with something to raise her strength. I have her equipped right now with the Girdle of Hill Giant Strength to get her up to 19 STR, then I've got her using the Flail of Ages in conjunction with Sentinel and Doomplate armour. She deals quite a bit of damage with the flail and has an armour class of -10.

    It's Jaheria I could never get to be a decent front-liner. She just never dealt much damage.

    But Jaheira is a fighter and Viconia is a pure cleric... I don't understand how that's even possible, unless you found zero good weapons for Jaheira. I know the Flail is badass but there's great options for Jaheira's proficiencies too.
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