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Why does everyone say Viconia is the best cleric?

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  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    nano said:

    Honestly, I find Viconia to be pretty good as a front-line cleric once you equip her with something to raise her strength. I have her equipped right now with the Girdle of Hill Giant Strength to get her up to 19 STR, then I've got her using the Flail of Ages in conjunction with Sentinel and Doomplate armour. She deals quite a bit of damage with the flail and has an armour class of -10.

    It's Jaheria I could never get to be a decent front-liner. She just never dealt much damage.

    But Jaheira is a fighter and Viconia is a pure cleric... I don't understand how that's even possible, unless you found zero good weapons for Jaheira. I know the Flail is badass but there's great options for Jaheira's proficiencies too.
    Oh, it's simple, really: Jaheira has no strength/thac0 buff spells, and she has a rather crappy 15 strength to start with. Viconia does.

    Jaheira still has Iron Skins and good anti-mage spells (insect plague). Really her only weakness is the 15 strength, which you can get around by girdles. A lot of people are too afraid to try melee-Viconia (and it's super risky, for sure), but with buffs and girdles she can easily break through and kick ass.

    JTM
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632

    nano said:

    Honestly, I find Viconia to be pretty good as a front-line cleric once you equip her with something to raise her strength. I have her equipped right now with the Girdle of Hill Giant Strength to get her up to 19 STR, then I've got her using the Flail of Ages in conjunction with Sentinel and Doomplate armour. She deals quite a bit of damage with the flail and has an armour class of -10.

    It's Jaheria I could never get to be a decent front-liner. She just never dealt much damage.

    But Jaheira is a fighter and Viconia is a pure cleric... I don't understand how that's even possible, unless you found zero good weapons for Jaheira. I know the Flail is badass but there's great options for Jaheira's proficiencies too.
    Oh, it's simple, really: Jaheira has no strength/thac0 buff spells, and she has a rather crappy 15 strength to start with. Viconia does.

    Jaheira still has Iron Skins and good anti-mage spells (insect plague). Really her only weakness is the 15 strength, which you can get around by girdles. A lot of people are too afraid to try melee-Viconia (and it's super risky, for sure), but with buffs and girdles she can easily break through and kick ass.
    Jaheira's going to have a belt anyways if you're going to melee with her, and she doesn't need buffs. Her THAC0 as a fighter is already good enough and doesn't need extra help. And most importantly - she hits more often.

    Jaheira can use scimitars and therefore Belm, while clerics don't get anything of that sort. She's more competent of a dual wielder to begin with, gets 1 extra APR from her fighter levels, 1/2 from specialization, and can use the gauntlets of extraordinary specialization if you so desire. That's 9 or 10 attacks a round while hasted. And she can throw a fighter HLA on top. Doesn't matter if she's swinging a potato, there's no way Viccy can compete with that. V can get, what, 4? And only if you do a wonky dual wielding thing with her. Viconia is a good cleric but melee is not one of her strengths.

    semiticgodQuartz
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    edited November 2013
    'Plethora of damage dealing cleric skills'.

    But no Holy Blight. You lied to me.

    And if you cant deal damage with Jahiera you're doing something wrong. There are plenty of great staffs and scimitars that she can use in the game, and STR increasing gloves or belt. 17 dex and con also make her very reliable in the front line.

    As for the no restoration thing, you can always take either Aerie or Anomen along for that. Jaheira is a fighter slot with additional druid classes, you aren't sacrificing a clerics spot if you keep her. Both Aerie and Anomen are much stronger than Viconia.

    Fenghoang
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Because she is.
    In fact, she is one of the only characters in the game that can't be improved on by making a full customised party.

    DJKajuruQuartz
  • ManzorManzor Member Posts: 18
    The problem I have with Jaheira is her weapons. I can't find any good scimitar until tob (without mods). Only +2 scimitars... Jaheira can't deal enough damage in the advanced game. But as an anti-mage character, she is great.

  • ItstucktwiceItstucktwice Member Posts: 182
    edited November 2013
    @manzor

    Here ya go:


    Water's Edge +3 - in one of the houses in the drow city.
    Spectral Brand +4 - in Watcher's Keep. (Technically does require TOB but can be attained at any time in SOA) Later upgraded to +5 in TOB.
    Frostbrand + 3 and Defender + 5 - Drizzt's weapons.


    4 scimitars with a +3 or higher that can be acquired before TOB. Any of them paired with Belm+2 in her offhand and a strength modifier of some sort makes Jaheira a melee powerhouse.

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Those are all really late game, though. You can get Hawksight+2 on Rasaad's quest, which gives you a bonus +1 Dex. You can also get a decent Scimitar at the end of Dorn's questline, but that requires you to be pretty evil (and I can't remember anything about it). Hawksight is good, though, especially since it'd boost Jaheira to 18 Dex, which would give her an extra point of AC.

  • ManzorManzor Member Posts: 18

    @manzor

    Here ya go:


    Water's Edge +3 - in one of the houses in the drow city.
    Spectral Brand +4 - in Watcher's Keep. (Technically does require TOB but can be attained at any time in SOA) Later upgraded to +5 in TOB.
    Frostbrand + 3 and Defender + 5 - Drizzt's weapons.


    4 scimitars with a +3 or higher that can be acquired before TOB. Any of them paired with Belm+2 in her offhand and a strength modifier of some sort makes Jaheira a melee powerhouse.

    I didn't know about the Water's Edge +3, but the Spectral Brand require a lot of work, and I have never stolen Drizzt. Your information is very useful, thanks (I almost always use Jaheira) but all that weapons are really hard to get. Even if they exist, I must play a big part of the game with the +2 scimitars.

    I never think in Jaheira as an offensive member of the group, nor I do with Viconia. If you want to deal damage, you choose Korgan, Minsc, Valygar.

    Viconia is the best cleric... if you think in her as a CLERIC. That is, a supporting character.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,944
    ryuken87 said:

    Give Jaheira Blackblood in her main hand. It's not spectacular but it's still pretty decent and is available very early (not long after picking up Belm).

    I was about to suggest the same thing :)

    Jaheira starts out with specialisation in clubs. Might as well get some mileage out of it :)

    Quartz
  • velehalvelehal Member Posts: 203
    Who says that Viconia is the best cleric? Because she definitely isn´t.
    Quick comparison (from perspective of power, not character or something similar):

    Anomen - better than Viconia (because of 7 level of fighter)
    Aerie - better than Viconia (because she is multiclass)

    If I put druids into comparison:

    Jaheira - better than Viconia (because she is multiclass)
    Cernd - +- same level, personally I prefer druids over clerics but I understand that someone would choose Viconia.

    The moral is that in BG dual or multi classes are always better than single classes.

  • althoralthor Member Posts: 67
    Uh, the question was best cleric....
    You are comparing a cleric to dual classes?
    How could a dual class POSSIBLY be the best CLERIC?

    Viconia is pure cleric and has the most available cleric spells.
    That is what is required to be the best "cleric"...

  • AranthysAranthys Member Posts: 694
    Viconia - is great due to her early access to animate dead at caster level 15, great stats and very high magic resist. That, and she's a BABE. DAM' RIGHT'
    Aerie - is great due to beeing one of the most powerful multiclass available (Wizard/Cleric is some serious shnitz)
    Anomen - is great due to the fact that he gets an additional attack and can specialize in weapons, becoming a melee powerhouse.
    Jaheira - is probably the best tank of the lot
    Cernd - Heh. Cernd.

    Overall, they are all great but for different reasons.
    Except Cernd, of course

    Quartz
  • velehalvelehal Member Posts: 203
    edited November 2013
    althor said:

    Uh, the question was best cleric....
    You are comparing a cleric to dual classes?
    How could a dual class POSSIBLY be the best CLERIC?
    Viconia is pure cleric and has the most available cleric spells.
    That is what is required to be the best "cleric"...

    But then the question doesn´t make much sense, because there are is only one pure class cleric in the game. And that is Viconia. Yes she is the best, but because she is the only one.
    If we would only count the number of available spells it wouldn´t reveal to much. On higher levels the fact, that someone has two or three more spells, becomes irrelevant. And this is the point where for example the seven levels of fighter of Anomen becomes very important.

  • althoralthor Member Posts: 67
    velehal said:

    althor said:

    Uh, the question was best cleric....
    You are comparing a cleric to dual classes?
    How could a dual class POSSIBLY be the best CLERIC?
    Viconia is pure cleric and has the most available cleric spells.
    That is what is required to be the best "cleric"...

    But then the question doesn´t make much sense, because there are is only one pure class cleric in the game. And that is Viconia. Yes she is the best, but because she is the only one.
    If we would only count the number of available spells it wouldn´t reveal to much. On higher levels the fact, that someone has two or three more spells, becomes irrelevant. And this is the point where for example the seven levels of fighter of Anomen becomes very important.
    Yes, but when you get to that high level of game play, a lvl 7 fighter isnt much at all.
    At that point you would want to keep a lvl 7 fighter in the back of a group with a ranged weapon and far from melee.
    Heck, Viconia has -9 AC right now and I just entered Spellhold. Even still, she will be sitting back in the formation tossing stones with her sling. She only comes up front to cast a heal on the tank. If she is attacked while healing, her AC keeps her relatively safe until I can draw the aggro off her.

  • velehalvelehal Member Posts: 203
    althor said:

    Heck, Viconia has -9 AC right now and I just entered Spellhold. Even still, she will be sitting back in the formation tossing stones with her sling. She only comes up front to cast a heal on the tank. If she is attacked while healing, her AC keeps her relatively safe until I can draw the aggro off her.

    In SoA AC -9 is fine, it makes the character almost safe from the most melee enemies. Unfortunately in ToB AC looses quickly value. I remember that Mazzy with AC -15 was regularly hit by almost all enemies. In ToB if you want to be protected against blows the only reliable protection are arcane spells.

    Quartz
  • ManzorManzor Member Posts: 18
    In my case, Viconia is perfect because I like to obtain the most powerful spells in the shortest possible time. Aerie takes too time to get that high priest spells, and Anomen has low wisdom... at the begining of the game, that counts.

    In advanced games, everyone can be a god-character. Since I don't use the cleric of my group as a first line warrior (I have no need of it), the smart thing is to choose Viconia (if I play with evil side).

    dstoltzfusQuartz
  • althoralthor Member Posts: 67
    ^ Right which falls back to a lvl 7 fighter isn't going to be any better. Neither will be frontline in endgame anyway. I use my cleric as a healer. Never understood trying to use a cleric for a fighter. I have a fighter in my group. I have a mage and thief in my group. Viconia is my cleric.

  • AranthysAranthys Member Posts: 694
    althor said:

    ^ Right which falls back to a lvl 7 fighter isn't going to be any better. Neither will be frontline in endgame anyway. I use my cleric as a healer. Never understood trying to use a cleric for a fighter. I have a fighter in my group. I have a mage and thief in my group. Viconia is my cleric.

    Clerics can wear full plate and tower shields. They ARE front line fighters, not like these sissies priests from World of Warcraft :d

    FenghoangDragonspear
  • KaigenKaigen Member Posts: 1,567
    @althor The thing is, fighters hardly improve at all at higher levels. Past level 13, they're just making time until they get HLAs; a 7th level fighter gets most of the hit points a fighter will ever get, most of the attacks a fighter will ever get, and passes on to a dual class the ability to achieve grandmastery at the cost of an amount of experience that quickly becomes negligible. A 7th level fighter is entirely capable of holding the frontline in the endgame, especially if they have spellcasting buffs backing them up. The very reason why fighter dual-classes are so powerful is because they get 90% of the capability of fighters combined with 99% of the capability of their second class.

    FenghoangsemiticgodPokotaQuartz
  • laptopman666laptopman666 Member Posts: 283

    Viconia's 65% magic resistance makes hardly any sense lore-wise. Her in-game biography actually states that her drow powers have diminished since coming to the surface (as one would expect) but somehow this increased her MR by 15% rather than decreasing it by 15%, like one would expect =/

    that's actually a really interesting point. I never thought of that when it came to her magic resistance. Good food for thought buddy :D

    booinyoureyes
  • laptopman666laptopman666 Member Posts: 283

    "Why does everyone say Viconia is the best Cleric"


    (.) (.)

    ROFL!

    booinyoureyes
  • BasillicumBasillicum Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 400
    It depends on how you play. Viconia is missing Holy Smite, which is kind of a letdown. But so is the fact that Jaheira hardly has any level 2 spells that don't rely heavily on circumstance to be useful.

    I think many use the fact that Viconia has the highest Wisdom score in the game as an argument for calling her the best cleric, which stands true if all you need is a healer. Jaheira and especially Anomen are without a doubt the better warriors.

    KaigenDisgruntlerQuartz
  • althoralthor Member Posts: 67
    So we return full circle.
    Are you looking for a cleric or a fighter?
    I have a fighter and a cleric, why would I need a poor combination of both?
    My play style, only one character (my fighter) tanks, everyone else is ranged.
    Having a poor fighter doesnt help, having a poor cleric doesnt help.
    If you were playing minimal characters, I could see using a dual class.
    If you are playing full party, not much good reason to bother.

  • velehalvelehal Member Posts: 203
    althor said:


    Are you looking for a cleric or a fighter?
    I have a fighter and a cleric, why would I need a poor combination of both?
    My play style, only one character (my fighter) tanks, everyone else is ranged.
    Having a poor fighter doesnt help, having a poor cleric doesnt help.
    If you were playing minimal characters, I could see using a dual class.
    If you are playing full party, not much good reason to bother.


    If we are speaking about Anome, he is not poor fighter or cleric. He is great cleric (loosing only few low level spells) and also great fighter (with the help of few cleric´s spells). For me it is always advantage to be multi class or dual class. This is the problem of rules but mutlti/dual classes are almost always stronger than single classes, at least on higher levels. Anomen literally doesn´t loose anything by taking 7 levels of fighter, but he has more hitpoints, fighter´s benefits of mastery, +1/2 APR. The 64 000 experiences is nothing in SoA. Maybe the difference isn´t clearly visible in vanilla game, but with mods (Ascension, SCS) it is huge advantage. He is even better archer than Viconia because of additional APR.


    booinyoureyesFenghoang
  • KaigenKaigen Member Posts: 1,567
    althor said:

    So we return full circle.
    Are you looking for a cleric or a fighter?

    Why not both? If you can get everything a cleric gets while also having the benefits of 7 levels of fighter (which is almost everything a fighter gets), you don't have to choose between them.

    A dual-classed Fighter->Cleric like Anomen is not "a poor combination," but a great fighter and a great cleric in the same package, because not only do you have nearly all the benefits of either class on its own, you have the synergy of being able to combine a cleric's combat buffs with a fighter's higher APR.

  • ManzorManzor Member Posts: 18
    Kaigen said:

    althor said:

    So we return full circle.
    Are you looking for a cleric or a fighter?

    Why not both? If you can get everything a cleric gets while also having the benefits of 7 levels of fighter (which is almost everything a fighter gets), you don't have to choose between them.

    A dual-classed Fighter->Cleric like Anomen is not "a poor combination," but a great fighter and a great cleric in the same package, because not only do you have nearly all the benefits of either class on its own, you have the synergy of being able to combine a cleric's combat buffs with a fighter's higher APR.
    You can like Anomen but he is not a "great fighter". Korgan is a "great fighter". Anomen is a medium-bad fighter. And a medium-great cleric. With both, you have a good bastard. But he is still a medium-bad fighter and a medium-great cleric. But versatile yet.

    JTMkensai
  • TvrtkoSvrdlarTvrtkoSvrdlar Member Posts: 353
    Faray said:

    I always hear how Viconia is the best cleric, but I usually don’t have the chance as I play a good party. This time I’m doing netural and taking whoever I wish. However I don’t understand what makes Viconia so great. She has 19DEX which is nice, and 18 WIS which is real nice, but that’s only 2 more than the other clerics. However she has no offensive capacity other than a sling. Anomen makes a great front liner with his high Strength and Con, and the gauntlets of dex can bring his DEX up to to make up for it only being at 10. Aerie is frail like Vic but can cast mage spells as well giving her double duty.

    So maybe it’s something I’m missing, because I just don’t see what makes Viconia so good. I really don’t feel the two extra spell slots she gets makes up for the low strength and con that Anomen has over her, or the mage spells that Aerie have.


    Why do people like Viccy?

    'Cause she's hawt! ;)

    booinyoureyesGawdzilla
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