Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Axis & Allies 1942 Online is now available in Early Access! Buy it on Steam. The FAQ is available.
New Premium Module: Tyrants of the Moonsea! Read More
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Why does everyone say Viconia is the best cleric?

123457»

Comments

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,832
    Man I love me some good thread necromancy. Let's do this.

    @velehal
    velehal wrote: »
    The moral is that in BG dual or multi classes are always better than single classes.
    Imagine being this wrong.

    @Basillicum
    Basillicum wrote: »
    I think many use the fact that Viconia has the highest Wisdom score in the game as an argument for calling her the best cleric, which stands true if all you need is a healer. Jaheira and especially Anomen are without a doubt the better warriors.
    Aaaand there it is. Viconia is a good tank and has some especially unique tanking moments thanks to her high magic resistance, but otherwise this is 100% true.

    I also found a disturbing number of individuals dissing Jaheira throughout this thread. At this point I've just accepted it: Lots of people just can't be bothered to figure out how to run a druid or even fighter/druid. Very rewarding characters, and Jaheira is BAE in BGII... I take her in almost every party.

    ThacoBellgorgonzolailduderinoAerakar
  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 294
    edited September 13
    How Jaheira is ranked (and Aerie) is normally how I judge most powerful companion rankings, as she is easy to underestimate. Initially she seems weak but she is incredibly versatile and powerful when used well

    I get the appeal of Viconia as on paper she looks effective as a healer and tank (as well as one of the more interesting romances) but as the game goes on, on a pure power and flexibility basis, she will be outperformed by Jaheira, Aerie and Anomen

    jsavingThacoBellQuartzgorgonzola
  • _Connacht__Connacht_ Member Posts: 144
    edited September 14
    I used EEKeeper to turn Viconia into a cleric/mage, filling the role of Aerie but with slightly better stats, more (s)elf-esteem and magic resistance. I might try a fighter/cleric Viconia, filling the role of Anomen but with a different taste of arrogance, more sex-appeal and magic resistance.

    Post edited by _Connacht_ on
    Quartzgorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,825
    viconia can be also really interesting and powerful as sorcerer, the high wis and the MR make her a super sorcerer.
    i never did it, but it was suggested in some old forums and i see the potential of the build.

    ilduderino
  • NK1990NK1990 Member Posts: 26
    I think Viconia is better than Aerie as and front liner, of course. Because Aerie is a mage, and because the mage cleric multi-classes have been nerfed in the enhanced edition. But better than Anomen or (Jaheria sorry if I slaughter that name), not likely, she is more fun to have in the party, and has a feel of a deeper char, it is expertly crafted or luckily done by the original developers. Something beamdog should have learned from when they made there NPC's. But I must say statistically she is no way near to Anomen, or Jaheria, not even if you fill her with late game items. You always have the choice to do same to the other chars. Anomen beats Viconia in everything, except infravision. Jaheria has worse choice of weapons through the game, but is much stronger, because of her fighter class as a multi, than Viconia ever will be no matter how much you buff her with cleric spells. Jaheria also has much better spells and the good Viconia have Jaheria also have. Before I forget both Anomen and Jaheria can learn Greater Whirlwind attack, which is essential.

    gorgonzola
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 339
    NK1990 wrote: »
    Anomen beats Viconia in everything, except infravision.
    And the magic resistance. Don't forget the 65% chance to completely ignore almost any hostile magical effect, which can be further increased with appropriate gear.
    NK1990 wrote: »
    Before I forget both Anomen and Jaheria can learn Greater Whirlwind attack, which is essential.
    No, Anomen can't do that. As a dual class, he's restricted to the cleric list of high-level abilities.

    gorgonzola
  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 294
    edited September 23
    Aerie can be a much better front liner than Viconia. There are many mage spells that assist tanking. She can use stoneskin, mirror image, blur, armour spells, contingencies etc

    Personality to one side I think the power levels are Aerie > Jaheira > Anomen > Viconia, although Jaheira and Aerie do different things very well. Anomen and Viconia are probably best described as weaker versions of Jaheira (although Anomen’s cleric spells fill certain gaps Jaheira’s don’t, especially vs undead, and he can get a good number of attacks per round)

    gorgonzolaThacoBell
  • NK1990NK1990 Member Posts: 26
    ilduderino wrote: »
    Aerie can be a much better front liner than Viconia. There are many mage spells that assist tanking. She can use stoneskin, mirror image, blur, armour spells, contingencies etc

    Personality to one side I think the power levels are Aerie > Jaheira > Anomen > Viconia, although Jaheira and Aerie do different things very well. Anomen and Viconia are probably best described as weaker versions of Jaheira (although Anomen’s cleric spells fill certain gaps Jaheira’s don’t, especially vs undead, and he can get a good number of attacks per round)

    Yes aerie can tank pretty well, if you use most of her spell slot for protection spells. But even with gear she will not have that many spell slots to use, so you have to dedicate her to only to that, if she should be any good at all later in the game in that role. to prove a point try take her to watcher keep second last lvl and see how long she would hold there as a tank when you break the seals, or against the wraiths in the maze. I bet she die pretty damn quick. If you can make it function good on you, but I can most assuredly not use her in the frontline without having to revive her after every challenging encounter.
    jmerry wrote: »
    NK1990 wrote: »
    Anomen beats Viconia in everything, except infravision.
    And the magic resistance. Don't forget the 65% chance to completely ignore almost any hostile magical effect, which can be further increased with appropriate gear.
    NK1990 wrote: »
    Before I forget both Anomen and Jaheria can learn Greater Whirlwind attack, which is essential.
    No, Anomen can't do that. As a dual class, he's restricted to the cleric list of high-level abilities.

    I am 90% sure he does have both, if not, it's a feature of Bg2 EE, and not Bg2 Vanilla were I know he has Fighters end abilities, if so (my mistake). but it still does not change that much, would really have loved Viconia was the stronger because she is so much more soothing to have in the party. That would have justified to use her in my brain. The magic res your talking about never new she had it ?, and if so, I cannot feel a difference when using her in game?. She get hit just as easy by magic as any of the other, in the underdark SOA, were i am now in my playthrough.

  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 294
    Anomen has never been able to access fighter HLAs in any version unless you are using a mod that changes the base game to allow this. Dual classes only get HLAs in their current primary class. Imoen and Nalia cannot get thief HLAs either. Cleric HLAs are a bit meh so this does weaken Anomen compared to Jaheira.

    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,825
    edited September 23
    ilduderino wrote: »

    Personality to one side I think the power levels are Aerie > Jaheira > Anomen > Viconia
    i would rate anomen better then jaheira even if he lacks of fighter hla.
    buffed he can hit very hard, with 25 str all the times you need, from quite early in the game, and FoA, the defender of esthaven and the mace that protect him from level draining help in making him very effective mlee. and as spellcaster is almost as good as a single class.
    but they are both very powerful, probably is only a player's style issue, the best toon is the one the player is able to use at best...
    by the way i love jaheira, i use her more often then anomen and i perfectly know how to make her shine, don't get me wrong... :)


    NK1990 wrote: »
    I think Viconia is better than Aerie as and front liner, of course. Because Aerie is a mage, and because the mage cleric multi-classes have been nerfed in the enhanced edition.
    how it has been nerfed? i am not aware of it.
    and i agree that viconia can use earlier her cleric spells to boost her offensive mlee capability as she has not to split the xp between 2 classes, but imo as aerie catch up and reaches high enough levels there is no comparison, aerie wins both as tank and as damage dealer by far.
    i can pull 320 dmg/round from a high level aerie, including her simulacrum that equips BBoD and FoA, but not including the damage done by the 4 fireshields they can use, nor the one of the 2 blade bareers and globes of blades, that also viconia can have, but she lacks of the ones of the simulacrum, unless she uses the helm stealing it to a proper fighter.
    see more here
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/47354/superaerie-power-tactics-for-the-c-m-spoilers


    NK1990 wrote: »
    Yes aerie can tank pretty well, if you use most of her spell slot for protection spells. But even with gear she will not have that many spell slots to use, so you have to dedicate her to only to that, if she should be any good at all later in the game in that role.
    foe soloed mlee by my aerie, often without taking a single scratch:
    almost all the dragons in the game, from firkraag to draconis, the ravager, the whole oasis guys, yaga sura, sendai (i had the rest of the party keeping occupied the ever spawning drow helpers in the latter case).
    all on insane and with tactics mod installed.
    if you know how to buff her, protect her and use her she, reached a certain level, is so fast at doing damage that the enemies have no time to erode her arcane defenses.

    and i am strictly talking of mlee, not talking of how she is effective summoning, mixing arcane and divine spells in sequencers and CC or how deadly is the combo MMM + Holy power + DUHM + IH ranged.

    don't underestimate the one that is possibly the most powerful and versatile NPC.

  • NK1990NK1990 Member Posts: 26
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    ilduderino wrote: »

    Personality to one side I think the power levels are Aerie > Jaheira > Anomen > Viconia
    i would rate anomen better then jaheira even if he lacks of fighter hla.
    buffed he can hit very hard, with 25 str all the times you need, from quite early in the game, and FoA, the defender of esthaven and the mace that protect him from level draining help in making him very effective mlee. and as spellcaster is almost as good as a single class.
    but they are both very powerful, probably is only a player's style issue, the best toon is the one the player is able to use at best...
    by the way i love jaheira, i use her more often then anomen and i perfectly know how to make her shine, don't get me wrong... :)


    NK1990 wrote: »
    I think Viconia is better than Aerie as and front liner, of course. Because Aerie is a mage, and because the mage cleric multi-classes have been nerfed in the enhanced edition.
    how it has been nerfed? i am not aware of it.
    and i agree that viconia can use earlier her cleric spells to boost her offensive mlee capability as she has not to split the xp between 2 classes, but imo as aerie catch up and reaches high enough levels there is no comparison, aerie wins both as tank and as damage dealer by far.
    i can pull 320 dmg/round from a high level aerie, including her simulacrum that equips BBoD and FoA, but not including the damage done by the 4 fireshields they can use, nor the one of the 2 blade bareers and globes of blades, that also viconia can have, but she lacks of the ones of the simulacrum, unless she uses the helm stealing it to a proper fighter.
    see more here
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/47354/superaerie-power-tactics-for-the-c-m-spoilers


    NK1990 wrote: »
    Yes aerie can tank pretty well, if you use most of her spell slot for protection spells. But even with gear she will not have that many spell slots to use, so you have to dedicate her to only to that, if she should be any good at all later in the game in that role.
    foe soloed mlee by my aerie, often without taking a single scratch:
    almost all the dragons in the game, from firkraag to draconis, the ravager, the whole oasis guys, yaga sura, sendai (i had the rest of the party keeping occupied the ever spawning drow helpers in the latter case).
    all on insane and with tactics mod installed.
    if you know how to buff her, protect her and use her she, reached a certain level, is so fast at doing damage that the enemies have no time to erode her arcane defenses.

    and i am strictly talking of mlee, not talking of how she is effective summoning, mixing arcane and divine spells in sequencers and CC or how deadly is the combo MMM + Holy power + DUHM + IH ranged.

    don't underestimate the one that is possibly the most powerful and versatile NPC.

    I don't now how you do that, then you must be better than me to control spellcaster in front than I am. To be honest, I can manage making sure a spellcaster like that not getting any damage, only when fighting lesser mobs of monsters (Area specific mobs). if I take Aerie up against a dragon in front its gonna be at least with 2 hasted mordenkainen's sword summon plus extra, if the first ones gets unsummon, already there she is not at the front anymore, as my summons take that roll. and a lot of lower resistance spells so I can hit with horrid wilting, and if the dragons uses there breath attack, she is dead, unless I have absolute immunity on, which only holds for a very short time. Pretty much every protection spell like stone skin, protection from normal weapon, and protection from magic weapon, as far as I have tried on core rules get dropped almost instantly. I can make her survive just fine if I have some tanks in front of her, and beaten the game many time with her in the team.

    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,825
    edited September 23
    @NK1990
    against the breath attacks it is very easy.
    the shadow dragon level drains with it and wearing the amulet of power the problem is completely solved, firkraag makes fire damage and there is plenty of items and spells (she has them both as mage and cleric) to avoid it, 100% fire resistance and the breath is not effective. she also has that beautiful spell that make immune to a spell school, that can be used to avoid to be dispelled. when she meets dragons with different breaths, like the electric one, she has access to more spells, like protection from elements.
    for the physical damage and the wing buffets the mantle line spells and better pfmw, as the attacks of a dragon count as an enchanted weapon, block completely the attack. but also stoneskin and mirror images work, if needed she can boost her ac, blurr, defensive harmony, improved invisibility, that make her also not targetable with spells, and boosting dex help.
    with a good ac some of the attacks will not connect, but the buffets will, but the damage will be adsorbed by the images or skins. she can last many rounds against a dragon before she has to cast again stoneskin or new images, things that she can do very easily and fast while in combat, further more if she wears AoP and RoV.
    no way for a dragon to damage her for a very long time, probably the time she needs to kill 5 or more big lizards if she that day is particularly lazy.

    because offensively she only need to buff with the routine combat buff (holy power, righteous magic, improved haste and DUHM) to get fighter like thac0, 25 str and maxed damage roll on 4 apr (dual welding FoA, that has a chance to slow the dragon, and a good OH weapon).

    and she need to breach the dragon's defenses, other thing that she can do fast as she take down the MR with the cleric spell and a single lower magic resistance, cast a greater malison and a breach. as she can use the sequencers to do it the work is done at the very beginning of the second round. from that moment on she can bash him for 100 dmg/round or more, probably will slow him, also the spellcasting, and maybe she has also fireshield and blade bareer to deal more damage.
    a dragon goes down in about 3 rounds, without even using damaging spells.

    she is not even using summons here, but she can, both to hope in more damage done and to suck the breath and buffet, that is very annoying because even if does her no damage throws her far from the enemy so makes her loose some time. a dragon does not use breath and buffet randomly, so it is easy for a hasted toon, that has hasted also his summons, to have a single summon in the buffet range, that is a qiute wide angle, but not a circle around the dragon.

    and this is only a tactic with which she can kill a dragon as soon as she gets some mage and cleric levels, without being damaged herself, she is so versatile that she can do it in many other ways.

    i hope that you start to see her immense potential, viconia is powerful, but can only dream of something like that, even some quite strong parties struggle agains enemies that a well used aerie can beat alone effortlesly and almost without risk.

    Skatanilduderino
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,825
    edited September 25
    @NK1990
    feedback please :)
    aerie is one of those npcs that are really powerful, but only if the player learn how to use them, other way is only a sub par mage and cleric, that trades having a lot of spells/day with less levels and being allowed to cast at high levels a lot later. for her first lev 9 spell she needs 6Mxp, end tob for many parties, while neera, imoen, edwin or nalia can do it at 3M xp or little later.

    i am glad to give you some tips on how to use her, making her a good tank, caster and physical damge dealer, as is the npc that i have done more research on and that i like more game mechanics wise.
    but as i love her so much i want to be sure that you learn from my tips, the little i have learned trough 20 years playing the game and researching on it, even if there are much more strong and competent players then me on the forums...
    :)

Sign In or Register to comment.