Clara's an blank book, she can be pretty much anything if we save her, no shot chains on her behavior or background, an Clara NPC is in fact the same thing as any new human thief NPC, the difference is that the name was already decided and the first part of her presence in the party also is already defined. Besides that, anything is fair game !
By the way, i think the votes speak for themselfs, 62% that are 117 votes atm in favor of an Clara NPC, challenged by 23% that are 44 votes that are against an Clara NPC.
There is suffice interest in her presence as an permanent NPC.
BUT, before we advance in Clara's NPC work, i would like first that the devs work a bit more on Hexxat NPC, cos her quality isn't the best work in the enhanced editions, with all due respect to the ppl that create her.
@CrevsDaak Well, black vampire is a little strange. The only other black vampire was Eddie Murphy
Somebody needs to watch Queen of the Damned
or Blade.
Or Supernatural. God, I love Supernatural.
As for Clara, I still don't think she should be a follower, for most of the reasons that I've listed previously. That, and looking back on some the ideas in this thread. Some of it just makes me shudder on how Mary-Sue-ish people want Clara to be.
i'm surprised this is still going really, you should all probably note that as I voted 'yes' its probably something that's never going to happen
personaly if I could save her id still rather not have her as a party member but just wave her on her way and then they put the time into an all new thief dlc, heck they could bring Alora back as she's clearly far superior to all others
I havent even been able to convince myself that playing through with the real hexxat is worth it. When I first met clara, i was filled with wonder and completely thrilled to have found a female character that might be interesting. The possibilities were endless and I was on the edge of my seat to find out what was behind the mystery.. only to discover that this intriguing and remarkably well designed character was just a plot device and most likely written so incredibly well only by fluke. I immediately killed the real hexxat. Then I reloaded figuring there must be some merit to this new character, even if i'm pissed off but then she pissed me off again only meters down the hallway so she died a 2nd time. I reloaded yet again and endured her bitchery only to find myself killing her again in the copper coronet.
I don't care what the haters say, clara in her 20-30 minutes of gameplay is a way better character than the real hexxat. I'm looking forward to w/e mod is in the works but for now i'll just have to ignore her quest to play through the game with tears of disappointment and a 1-dimensional character.
If anyone ever figures out how to spawn clara with clua console so that she can be re-recruited please do post your wisdom.
Clara has potential in the same way a blank canvas has potential. To continue that analogy, I consider the fervent desire to see her made into a full-fledged NPC to be akin to someone pointing at one blank canvas in particular and claiming that it has unique potential, beyond that of other canvases, and insisting that exact canvas be used for a painting.
@TJ_Hooker: At this point, I actually want the devs to do a Clara DLC, because much lulz will be had when Beamdog's vision of the character turns out to have little or nothing in common with whatever her fans are imagining. And that will be the canonical interpretation from then on.
Clara has potential in the same way a blank canvas has potential. To continue that analogy, I consider the fervent desire to see her made into a full-fledged NPC to be akin to someone pointing at one blank canvas in particular and claiming that it has unique potential, beyond that of other canvases, and insisting that exact canvas be used for a painting.
Isn't that how all PCs and NPCs are? They all start as blank canvases until you decide to give them life, make them unique, and believe them to be different than the rest. For example take Edwin or Minsc. Take away their unique style of speech and dialogue, items (amulet & Boo), and response to actions and you get a Conjurer and a Ranger with anger problems. Wooo haven't seen that before...
While Clara is certainly a blank canvas, that's the beauty in her for me personally. In my P&P games, I love giving my (N)PCs a personality as the story continues. Sure they start off as just a sheet of paper with numbers on them, but they can be so much more.
I'm not as advent as others on here since I believe it will never happen from Beamdog anyways. But the potential for a mod to make this canvas a beautiful painting is certainly there.
@Wiggles: Not really - Edwin and Minsc have established personalities. It doesn't matter if they're not particularly original personalities, they still exist as characters independently of the player's input. This is not true of Clara, because literally everything you learn about her comes from Hexxat's secondhand knowledge: the player is never put in a position where you can find out anything at all about the kind of person she is (other than "she doesn't want to die", I guess).
I have no objection to being able to save her from the clutches of an evil vampire. That doesn't mean I want a semi-competent thief in my party though.
Wanting to kill vampires =/= Wanting Clara in my playthroughs.
I would suggest Dace, she's a CN Bounty Hunter for BG2(EE). I haven't even thought of Mod-added Thieves, but if you added them into the mix, then there's still too many thieves in the good/neutral alignments.
In my opinon, there's really no need for Clara as a party member. Let's just have an option to save her, give her some gold, and let her be on her merry way.
@SapphireIce101: I mean, excluding the mods at this point makes sense because compatibility is definitely an issue for many of them, but you have Alora, Dace, Amber, Yasraena, Valen... and every single one of them has more going on than a brain-dead actress-cum-prostitute-cum-vampire chow.
Clara has potential in the same way a blank canvas has potential. To continue that analogy, I consider the fervent desire to see her made into a full-fledged NPC to be akin to someone pointing at one blank canvas in particular and claiming that it has unique potential, beyond that of other canvases, and insisting that exact canvas be used for a painting.
Isn't that how all PCs and NPCs are? They all start as blank canvases until you decide to give them life, make them unique, and believe them to be different than the rest. For example take Edwin or Minsc. Take away their unique style of speech and dialogue, items (amulet & Boo), and response to actions and you get a Conjurer and a Ranger with anger problems. Wooo haven't seen that before...
While Clara is certainly a blank canvas, that's the beauty in her for me personally. In my P&P games, I love giving my (N)PCs a personality as the story continues. Sure they start off as just a sheet of paper with numbers on them, but they can be so much more.
I'm not as advent as others on here since I believe it will never happen from Beamdog anyways. But the potential for a mod to make this canvas a beautiful painting is certainly there.
I'm not going to argue about this, partly because @shawne already has, and partly because this is tangential to the point I was trying to make. When I said Clara is a blank canvas, I wasn't trying to argue that she would make a bad NPC. I was trying to argue that there is nothing about her that would inherently make her a good NPC. There is no reason that she would be better or worse than any other NPC Beamdog could make. So why cannibilize Hexxat's story line when they could just as easily make an entirely new NPC that would have just as much potential as Clara has to be great (or terrible, or anything in between)?
@shawne - I don't disagree. Clara brings nothing to the table when it comes to being a thief. Most of the thieves in the game can do what she can even better.
Also, Yasraena is a Fighter. Although, I wish she were a thief.
@SapphireIce101: I mean, excluding the mods at this point makes sense because compatibility is definitely an issue for many of them, but you have Alora, Dace, Amber, Yasraena, Valen... and every single one of them has more going on than a brain-dead actress-cum-prostitute-cum-vampire chow.
BG2 Alora is a hideous butchery of both the English language and the Bioware NPCs (EDWIN HUGS HER) and Yasraena is by the same people who made Saerileth.
Not that you're incorrect. They do have "more going on", in that they are worse in many ways.
@Glam_Vrock: That may certainly be the case, but then, these mods are optional - so long as there's one that suits you, does it matter which one it is specifically?
And I have to agree with @TJ_Hooker in that the strong objections to making Clara a full-fledged character - certainly on my part, though I can't speak for anyone else - is borne of the perception that, as we've been reminded so very often, Beamdog is a small team. If they decide to make new NPCs, you can be certain they'll only have the resources for one or two at most. And the existing pool of characters has gaps: no Barbarians; no representation of the new kits (Shadowdancer, Dragon Disciple, Dwarven Defender); no dwarf, gnome or half-orc women; and these are just the tip of the iceberg. I'd much sooner see those addressed than waste time and effort on a character who, by her very design, can't be everything people want her to be.
I'm very sorry you don't like the mod I'm currently writing. I have to agree with you : it will be very, very different from anything you might expect, and a lot of players will likely be disappointed.
But on the other hand, in my opinion, if you want to make a Clara mod you HAVE to deepen the character. By deepening the character, I'm changing it. This is unavoidable. You can't make a whole NPC mod with Clara in its BG2EE original state. Else it will just be totally uninteresting and look like a BG1 character.
It won't please everyone, but pleasing everyone is a very bad goal for a NPC. (and for a lot of things in general)
However if you like well-made NPC, you might like her, independantly from any other taste or preferences.
@Papy_Silk: Uh... I'm pretty sure no one's referring to your mod. I'm also reasonably certain no one would object to a Clara mod in principle, since mods don't theoretically come at the expense of other content.
Clara's character? Being dull and boring? What. Being indifferent to people and society is not such a boring personality trait. Her indifference is what makes her fucking cool. Someone referred to her as a blank slate - she is exactly that. But if that shit isn't deep or interesting, I don't know what is. Ok here's why:
If the choice were given to save Clara by killing Hexxat, her character could deepen by first becoming even more detached. With the curse of Hexxat gone, she would feel like she just woke up from a nightmare only to realize she's still nothing but a failed actress, no family, no friends, no real skills or future. Her world is for a while vacuously empty, devoid of any meaning or purpose (like Xan, but darker and less of the sarcastic remarks). She's right now having a post-vampiric domination existential crisis.
To take her roll even further, by travelling alongside CHARNAME she could start to combat her depression and bleak outlook on life. By following a righteous path in the party, she could begin to realize that there is good in the world, alternatively, in an evil party, start to fill the void inside her by harming others. In a neutral party, she could become some sort of anarchist, turning her emptiness into disdain for civilization. An alignment change would happen, depending on which path she finds herself following.
She could even become religious or whatever the shit. Many people turn to religion after having a crisis like that. She could turn to a deity of love/hate/mist depending on the path of the party. She could become a motherfucking Cleric/thief (although she would need a big wisdom buff).
Seeing this progression would imho be cool as balls. Fuck it I'm just thinking loud. There's only one given when it comes to Clara. +1 to hit and damage rolls against vampires.
heck they could bring Alora back as she's clearly far superior to all others
Plot twist? Clara's killer is vampiric Alora, whom you remember vanished so mysteriously after the events in the city of Baldur's Gate.
"Clara sinks lifeless to the floor, and Alora stands now in front of you. The vampiric halfling smiles, a single stream of blood trickling onto her rabbit's foot, stained with the blood of many."
Just thought I would mention that I would still like to see a Clara NPC. That's all.
Bump on this. Let's revive this thread, after all the yes have been a lot expressive here (163 votes and 64% of the pool) and no position has been takeb about this issue.
Comments
By the way, i think the votes speak for themselfs, 62% that are 117 votes atm in favor of an Clara NPC, challenged by 23% that are 44 votes that are against an Clara NPC.
There is suffice interest in her presence as an permanent NPC.
BUT, before we advance in Clara's NPC work, i would like first that the devs work a bit more on Hexxat NPC, cos her quality isn't the best work in the enhanced editions, with all due respect to the ppl that create her.
As for Clara, I still don't think she should be a follower, for most of the reasons that I've listed previously. That, and looking back on some the ideas in this thread. Some of it just makes me shudder on how Mary-Sue-ish people want Clara to be.
personaly if I could save her id still rather not have her as a party member but just wave her on her way and then they put the time into an all new thief dlc, heck they could bring Alora back as she's clearly far superior to all others
At least the devs know what a lot of us think about it all.
There's not a whole lot to say on the topic on my part, without copy/pasting my own earlier posts anyway.
Even so I'm happy to see the discussion still rolling on. Gief Clara! :P
I don't care what the haters say, clara in her 20-30 minutes of gameplay is a way better character than the real hexxat. I'm looking forward to w/e mod is in the works but for now i'll just have to ignore her quest to play through the game with tears of disappointment and a 1-dimensional character.
If anyone ever figures out how to spawn clara with clua console so that she can be re-recruited please do post your wisdom.
While Clara is certainly a blank canvas, that's the beauty in her for me personally. In my P&P games, I love giving my (N)PCs a personality as the story continues. Sure they start off as just a sheet of paper with numbers on them, but they can be so much more.
I'm not as advent as others on here since I believe it will never happen from Beamdog anyways. But the potential for a mod to make this canvas a beautiful painting is certainly there.
Wanting to kill vampires =/= Wanting Clara in my playthroughs.
In my opinon, there's really no need for Clara as a party member. Let's just have an option to save her, give her some gold, and let her be on her merry way.
Also, Yasraena is a Fighter. Although, I wish she were a thief.
Not that you're incorrect. They do have "more going on", in that they are worse in many ways.
And I have to agree with @TJ_Hooker in that the strong objections to making Clara a full-fledged character - certainly on my part, though I can't speak for anyone else - is borne of the perception that, as we've been reminded so very often, Beamdog is a small team. If they decide to make new NPCs, you can be certain they'll only have the resources for one or two at most. And the existing pool of characters has gaps: no Barbarians; no representation of the new kits (Shadowdancer, Dragon Disciple, Dwarven Defender); no dwarf, gnome or half-orc women; and these are just the tip of the iceberg. I'd much sooner see those addressed than waste time and effort on a character who, by her very design, can't be everything people want her to be.
But on the other hand, in my opinion, if you want to make a Clara mod you HAVE to deepen the character. By deepening the character, I'm changing it. This is unavoidable. You can't make a whole NPC mod with Clara in its BG2EE original state. Else it will just be totally uninteresting and look like a BG1 character.
It won't please everyone, but pleasing everyone is a very bad goal for a NPC. (and for a lot of things in general)
However if you like well-made NPC, you might like her, independantly from any other taste or preferences.
If the choice were given to save Clara by killing Hexxat, her character could deepen by first becoming even more detached. With the curse of Hexxat gone, she would feel like she just woke up from a nightmare only to realize she's still nothing but a failed actress, no family, no friends, no real skills or future. Her world is for a while vacuously empty, devoid of any meaning or purpose (like Xan, but darker and less of the sarcastic remarks). She's right now having a post-vampiric domination existential crisis.
To take her roll even further, by travelling alongside CHARNAME she could start to combat her depression and bleak outlook on life. By following a righteous path in the party, she could begin to realize that there is good in the world, alternatively, in an evil party, start to fill the void inside her by harming others. In a neutral party, she could become some sort of anarchist, turning her emptiness into disdain for civilization. An alignment change would happen, depending on which path she finds herself following.
She could even become religious or whatever the shit. Many people turn to religion after having a crisis like that. She could turn to a deity of love/hate/mist depending on the path of the party. She could become a motherfucking Cleric/thief (although she would need a big wisdom buff).
Seeing this progression would imho be cool as balls. Fuck it I'm just thinking loud. There's only one given when it comes to Clara. +1 to hit and damage rolls against vampires.
"Clara sinks lifeless to the floor, and Alora stands now in front of you. The vampiric halfling smiles, a single stream of blood trickling onto her rabbit's foot, stained with the blood of many."
Well let's hope something comes of this in the end