Wouldn't having animated portraits completely negate out ability to add and remove our own portraits to the game? It might be okay for people who play only with the default set, but seriously? This would be the worse change ever.
Its different in a game like PS:T which has a very limited pre-set cast.
Not necessarily. I imagine it could be implemented in such a way that you can choose between a custom static portrait or an animated one automatically generated by the game. In NWN2 there is a similar system (without the animation IIRC), because you can have a custom portrait or have the game generate a 3D one from the (N)PC avatar.
Anyway, I agree with @CrevsDaak that this is not really needed.
But, you can create custon moving portraits if you know enough, so I don't see whats wrong there. @Erg (and everyone else who might feel this is for him/her/it) this is for the OP (original poster, the only one who is over powered here is I).
Dont get hung up on my animated portrait remark, it was more an example of something that could be done, rather than something that should be done, or even something I wanted done.
My biggest gripes are the UI which is overly clunky (and lets not forget all the pointless screens you have to go through to load your game or exit the program... seriously?!?!?!?), and the sprites. The sprites should have been replaced.
As for backgrounds, I wasnt wanting them changed in any way, but smart localized post effects could add more realistic water effects, or better/smoother foliage animations for example. At no point should the hand drawn art be changed or replaced, as that would be no different than content replacement and would alter the feel too much.
Its all opinion though. I am VERY happy that Overhaul was not allowed to alter the core game, as that would detract from the experience. BG and BGII should not have new content put in by anyone other than the original creators, its akin to someone grabbing a classic novel and inserting additional fanfic chapters. Just no.
The enhancement should only be on improving the aesthetics, usability, and functionality. Content is sacrosanct. In that regard the time put in to the new NPCs and The Black Pit is imo a complete waste of resources.
It would be nice for there to be more options. Provide a few UI themes for example.
To me an enhanced edition should be akin to a top tier Blu-Ray reissue. Leave the content alone and present it to current and new audiences better than its ever been. Pristine visuals (or as pristine as is possible), and richer sound. Polish out the defects, and a few enhancements where needed. That's it.
All of the engine tweaking is HUGELY appreciated, but for the asking price I expected more.
@Erg: Setting aside the simple truth that you don't have to use any particular character if you don't want to, it's disingenuous to claim that the EE NPCs are comparable to, say, Kelsey or Angelo (and I'm deliberately naming mod characters who are generally well-received by the player community). Even if you disregard personal opinions about their stories (which, obviously, vary), they're still better-implemented and, on the whole, better-written than your average NPC mod.
I actually prefer Kelsey and Angelo tbh, though I like Rasaad and Neera is okay
@Erg: How are the EE NPCs overpowered? Edwin is a better mage than Neera, Sarevok can take more hits and do more damage than Dorn, Hexxat requires micromanagement that wouldn't be necessary with Imoen, and Rasaad only becomes viable at high levels (like most monks). They're different, certainly, and have certain advantages, but they're not inherently superior. And while they each have their own storyline, they don't take up any more screen time or effort than, say, Jaheira's quest.
And, I mean, if you're going to advocate the purist approach of deleting characters you don't have to use in the first place, maybe you're better off with the original version anyway.
@Shin: The BG games were never "abandoned", though. BioWare released them, patched them (to a point), and that was it. The only thing that's different about these particular games is that the modding community has remained active for so many years afterwards (all the more remarkable given the relatively sparse attention given to other IE games such as "Icewind Dale" or "Planescape Torment"). What you define as "untapped potential" is actually the game's ability to be modded to the point of being unrecognizable as Baldur's Gate - that doesn't mean the games themselves are any more incomplete than every other game that concludes its post-release cycle.
As for whether the EEs benefit the community: maybe so (though BG:EE's been out for a year and I don't exactly see an ocean of new mod quests and NPCs, so much as adaptations of outdated mods that aren't being in any way revised or updated to incorporate EE content) but those considerations don't factor into a player's ability to enjoy the actual game...
@shawne I never meant to imply the BG games were left in an unfinished state (though in a certain sense they were abandoned when BioWare pulled support and deleted the old BG forums containing a wealth of knowledge of the games), but as a game series kept alive in many parts due to the modding community there was also a limit to its evolution. This obviously doesn't matter much for games that are played once or twice at retail and then never again, but when you keep enjoying a game for 15 years after its release, how it can be tweaked and upgraded tends to become increasingly important.
As for what adds to the experience and what constitutes modding "to the point of being unrecognizable as Baldur's Gate", that's about as subjective as the post that started this thread - but that's also the charm of modding, being able to tailor the game depending on how you like to play it.
And while there may not have been "an ocean" of new mods, there has been some. Again I think our perspectives in terms of what we expect and how fast we expect it are completely different. Either way, while it may not factor into the enjoyment of an isolated playthrough for a single player, it still benefits the overall state of the game. This may not matter to a reviewer doing a job, but to everyone coming here and posting as players of the game expressing levels of enthusiasm and expectations, I'm compelled to bring it up as a point of view.
The enhancement should only be on improving the aesthetics, usability, and functionality. Content is sacrosanct. In that regard the time put in to the new NPCs and The Black Pit is imo a complete waste of resources.
In my opinion, they do add a lot to the enhancement. Monk, Wild Mage and Blackguard are three classes that were previously not covered by any npcs; i think they help add much flavour to party compositions.
Also I think Black Pits 1 and 2 offer a lot in humour (Baeloth!) and a fun distraction from a game that can sometimes be overwhelming in its size. The Black Pits is also great for trying different or unusual character builds.
Please, this post is not directioned to someone, don't take it as an offensive whoever you are. I can tell, almost sure, that it wasn't the Black Pits and the new NPCs what took the most time, and the Load/Save/Game screens are the same since BG1 (well, almost!), if you know how to make a new UI, you can do so, in the Infinity Engine you can change almost everything, and, well, I didn't appreciated the Black Pits, and I only see the new NPCs good because 1)Now we can run an evil party without an Thief PC. 2)Run a BG1 without picking those idiotic good-aligned mages and taking Neera instead, I know, I treat them as the tools they are. I know this can be bothersome, but, it is what they did, and that because you don't care about the new modding capabilities BG:EE has, they've externalized a LOT of files as IDS, so now you can easily change things like the Familiars you get depending on your alignement (you had to edit the .GAM file for that....) and now Haer'Dalis has his Resistances corrected in SoA (not too much but it bothered me a lot, I still have the vanilla, and that was one of the first thins I changed in my game), more things have been externalized of the .GAM and other giant files that you couldn't edit without fearing the consecuences, now summons have their own list, some race identifiers and General identifiers have been corrected (*cough*0x1 HUMANOID undead *cough* 0x0 GENERAL_ITEM golem *cough*) to work properly (still, I wonder why don't they use the fucking Immunity to Turn Undead some bazterdz from BG2 have *cough* Bodhi *cough*), most of this things remain unknown to "those-that-do-not-toy-with-the-game's-files", because, well, they aren't very interesting things, but they are worth to mention that they were changed, that types of things make the game an Enhanced Edition for me, besides compatibility with other devices (now I am in the v1.2.2023? Of the iPad edition, as a Beta tester who didn't get his badge nor is going to be mentioned cuz' I'm freaking too evil), which is one of the best improvements to the Infinity Engine ever done, because, some games need an EE just for that, and for bug fixing, lots of bug fixing (yep, I am talking 'bout Planescape Torment, the best CRPG ever made, and still one of the buggiest ever too), new animations are almost impossible to do. They are Pre-rendered, they are 2D versions of 3D versions that were lost, that is why we can't get an HD version, also, for HD games you have an array of those so-called-rpgs (they are so bithching deviants bazterdz that they don't even pit the C before RPG!) like Skyrim and those, I would also like a BG:EHDE (BG:Enhanced HIgh Definition Edition), but I do care more for pther things like improved compatibility, buf-fixing and whatever else. Also multiplayer is very (literally) stable in the beta I am testing, and it is not supposed for it to work so good.
How are the EE NPCs overpowered? Edwin is a better mage than Neera, Sarevok can take more hits and do more damage than Dorn, Hexxat requires micromanagement that wouldn't be necessary with Imoen, and Rasaad only becomes viable at high levels (like most monks). They're different, certainly, and have certain advantages, but they're not inherently superior. And while they each have their own storyline, they don't take up any more screen time or effort than, say, Jaheira's quest.
1) I never mentioned Neera in my post. I don't think she's overpowered. However, of the new NPCs, she is the one I like less. Nothing personal, I just don't like Wild Mages. I don't think I will use her ever again, but that's just me.
2) I can't judge Hexxat nor any content of BG2:EE as I don't have it.
3) Your argument about Dorn not being overpowered is to compare him to Sarevok, a TOB only NPC, really? Dorn is recruitable pretty early in BG1:EE, the comparison is moot IMO!
4) I never said that Rasaad is overpowered, but that the items in his quest line (at least in BG1:EE as I don't know anything about his quest(s) in BG2:EE) are.
5) The new NPCs feel different to me than the original ones, in the same way other NPCs from mods do. Thus I will only compare them to other NPCs from mods and never to the original NPCs, but that's just me, feel free to disagree.
Oh, boy, another one of THESE threads. I'd enumerate how virtually all of your points are completely wrong, but I've learned how much of a waste of time that is at this stage in the game. The game is clearly leaps and bounds ahead of vanilla at base, and once the mods that actually matter are converted, there will be literally no reason to not buy EE over the originals. Good day.
While I don't often agree with Erg, I will say that the new NPCs really didn't fit in well with BG1. They'll probably fit in better once the NPC pack is finally out and everyone else is less quiet. As it is, though, they are fully voiced and have about 15 times the amount of dialogue of the vanilla NPCs. They also lack the basic default lines, such as reputation reactions and generic insults/compliments. These things combine to make them seem worryingly out of place. Ironically the only one who arguably fits in best is Baeloth, since outside his introduction his brief area comments are more in line with the quantity of dialogue with the older NPCs.
I generally find that they fit a lot better in BG2EE, regardless of what some detractors say. Their dialogue is no longer fully voiced, but instead follows the general 'voiced first line/important dialogues' of the normal NPCs, and they have a roughly equivalent number of ordinary lines, as well as 1-2 banters with the other NPCs, which are the norm. Their ToB quests are the most stand out sections (since nobody else gets these), but I found their SoA quests fits relatively well outside the fact you need them to do them. I found, however, that Rasaad and Neera had more relative content than Dorn or Hexxat.
While I have a different opinion and believe that it is worthy of being called an enhancement of the original game, I actually like the suggested animated portrait feature. Jagged Alliance comes to mind. That I believe is a factor why that said game is so beloved by fans. The static 2D images comes to life all of a sudden with just a few eye blinks, and vowel movements of the mouth. The problem, however, is on how you could associate the proper mouth movement with what the character's actual dialogue considering that BG has thousand times more lines than JA; it also doesn't help that it is nigh impossible to do that for custom voices as well.
@Schneidend I think you are ignoring the bug sections of this forum which are sprawling out of control for both games as we speak. I have personally submitted dozens of bug reports that nobody responded to.
Once most of these bugs are fixed, I will accept your assertion that the EE's are clearly a preferable choice to the originals. But not until then.
1. You made a blanket statement about the EE NPCs being overpowered - Neera is an EE NPC.
2. Hexxat is also an EE NPC.
3. You could just as easily argue that Keldorn is a better option than Dorn too - not only does he have higher CON and can wield Carsomyr, but his Dispel Magic abilities are far more useful in BG2 than Dorn's Aura of Despair.
4. The only item in Rasaad's quest that could possibly be considered "overpowered" is that cursed belt that gives you 19 STR and 6 INT, and there are potions in the game that can give you even higher STR without the drawback.
5. I understand what you're saying, I'm just not clear on what you're basing that comparison on. You started by saying the NPCs were overpowered, but you weren't referring to Neera, Rasaad or Hexxat; then you said the items you got on their quests were overpowered, despite the fact that there are items in the original which do pretty much the same thing.
Obviously, if you're used to the original versions, the EE NPCs will feel different in the same way NPC mods do - but that's how you perceive the game, not an inherent fault with the character designs. I played BG and BG2 for the first time about two years ago, so I never had that kind of deep nostalgic attachment to the originals; and as a result, I can accept Dorn, Hexxat, Rasaad and Neera just fine within the context of the Enhanced Edition.
@Schneidend I think you are ignoring the bug sections of this forum which are sprawling out of control for both games as we speak. I have personally submitted dozens of bug reports that nobody responded to.
Once most of these bugs are fixed, I will accept your assertion that the EE's are clearly a preferable choice to the originals. But not until then.
Even with the fixpacks and tweaks, it can hardly be said that the original games were bug-free, though. Or even mostly bug-free, at that.
I'm not prepared to declare the EEs as the definitive version just yet - not while BG1NPC and Ascension are still incompatible, and so many bugs persist specifically in relation to the new content - but the journey to get there may not be as long as you'd think...
if you're used to the original versions, the EE NPCs will feel different in the same way NPC mods do - but that's how you perceive the game, not an inherent fault with the character designs. I played BG and BG2 for the first time about two years ago, so I never had that kind of deep nostalgic attachment to the originals; and as a result, I can accept Dorn, Hexxat, Rasaad and Neera just fine within the context of the Enhanced Edition.
While I have a different opinion and believe that it is worthy of being called an enhancement of the original game, I actually like the suggested animated portrait feature. Jagged Alliance comes to mind. That I believe is a factor why that said game is so beloved by fans. The static 2D images comes to life all of a sudden with just a few eye blinks, and vowel movements of the mouth. The problem, however, is on how you could associate the proper mouth movement with what the character's actual dialogue considering that BG has thousand times more lines than JA; it also doesn't help that it is nigh impossible to do that for custom voices as well.
- The UI is still clunky and absolutely no effort was put in to make it more functional and user friendly.
Untrue. Mouse movement was made a lot smoother with hardware support and the UI was reworked to allow for more free screen real estate and easier customizability (as opposed to using a mod that needed reconfiguring every time you wanted to change something). There's also the quickloot bar and subtle changes like items you pick up adding onto already existing stacks even if your inventory is full.
- The Graphics have seen very little work (actually did a side by side with my GOG editions, and the so called improvements are either so subtle as to be virtually unnoticeable, or actually non existent).
That you claim redesigning and polishing the sprites in the absence of the original models should have been a no-brainer implies a lack of insight into how the Infinity Engine handles those sprites. It's not undoable, but a lot of time and resources would have to be diverted to it.
- Sound is virtually untouched (although env effects do seem slightly better)
True as far as I know. However, are you actually unhappy about the sound quality or more bickering for the sake of it? It's of course subjective, but in my experience the sound in the BG-series didn't age particularly poorly, nor stood out as something that needed immediate attention.
- The Black Pits are insulting. Vapid pointless garbage that was nothing but a waste of time, money, and effort. their inclusion is an embarrassment, and not worthy of anyone's time (either developer or player). The time wasted on these pieces of dross would be better spent on enhancing, bug fixing, and polishing the core game.
I reviewed BGIIEE for GP and gave it 9/10. 8.75 of that is because Baldur's Gate II is still an amazing game, the other .25 is for the tweaks made. This could have been more though, and no one should be looking at this as how to enhance a classic game. Failing to do the minimum should not be rewarded.
I understand that a lot of hard work and real effort went in to these games, and I sincerely appreciate it, for the most part what was included is exceptional. Its what isnt here that I take issue with. You had an opportunity to REALLY make an impact, and you didnt.
This is a totally fair point that you are obviously entitled to. The way I see it though, this was always a long-term project. The history of the BG games is such that they've been played for more than 10 years, in many ways due to the modding community; but the series has also been officially "dead" for a long time, with no hope of alterations to the engine or further official adventures or improvements being released. For all the skill of modders, there's always been things out of their reach.
With the EEs, the state of the BG series changed from "dead" to supported and evolving. The engine has received upgrades to allow for things that previously weren't doable, the game is getting patched and changed up, and more content is being planned. Things like these may not be immediately apparent with the "launch day review" impact perspective that you seem to express, but in my opinion that's never been the point. I agree that there's still work to be done and improvements to be made, but for all intents and purposes the EEs are shaping up to be the definite version of the BG series. I believe as time goes by both players and modders will shift over to them more and more.
@shawne Rose-tinted glasses notwithstanding, I find the bugs in my BG2:EE install much more numerous and distracting than the ones in my modded BG2 install. I'm sure part of this is that the former bugs are new to me while the latter ones I've been playing with for the last 13 years. Still, when I fired up BG2:EE after the game's release, I found myself spending more time typing up bug reports on the forum and taking screenshots of bugs than actually playing the game, and that made me feel like I was doing the job of the people who sold me the game. Didn't much help with immersion, either, but I guess that's my own problem.
The same thing applied to BG1:EE when it was released, but at least then the fixes were coming out faster and more frequently which made it more bearable.
The enhancement should only be on improving the aesthetics, usability, and functionality. Content is sacrosanct. In that regard the time put in to the new NPCs and The Black Pit is imo a complete waste of resources.
Now that is something I strongly disagree with. Internet is crawling with people who finished the game countless times in countless ways. New NPC's with related quests and new areas is exactly what the game needed.
After all, I do believe it's only mods that kept the game alive until this day. I, for that matter, bought the game mainly because of possibility to play it in well made 1920x1080 (I've heard bad things about mods that do that) and new content exactly.
I feel both upgrades to the graphics and new content are equally important. I have enjoyed the EE series but my one major gripe is that the character sprites are so darn pixelated and ugly. I really wish that Beamdog would have at least tried to sharpen the character sprites. I would do without both Black pits mini games in the 2 EE games if that was what it took for nicer looking character sprites.
Personally for me, the Blackpits are just pointless, if they were made into part of the main game then sure i would like them, but as stand alone content i could not care less whether it was there or not.
I think you are ignoring the bug sections of this forum which are sprawling out of control for both games as we speak. I have personally submitted dozens of bug reports that nobody responded to.
Once most of these bugs are fixed, I will accept your assertion that the EE's are clearly a preferable choice to the originals. But not until then.
To note: you have also submitted numerous bugs that have been marked as fixed.
It is 'sprawling out of control' because we have to go through and filter out all the duplicate threads (there are a lot, especially for things like Saemon and using the boat (there was at least four for that, and I merged a couple and moved some more)) as well as clearing the backlog; a lot of which has been fixed, is not an issue, is a duplicate, or has not provided enough information to diagnose the issue, but still needs to be sorted out to ensure all possible bug reports at least get looked at. If you think that the bug section is getting out of control, then I'll shoulder part of that blame. If you want to send me a PM with a list of links for the most game breaking, I'll take a look. Otherwise you'll be waiting until someone gets to them, just like everyone else.
@Schneidend I think you are ignoring the bug sections of this forum which are sprawling out of control for both games as we speak. I have personally submitted dozens of bug reports that nobody responded to.
Once most of these bugs are fixed, I will accept your assertion that the EE's are clearly a preferable choice to the originals. But not until then.
And? This is nothing new, and attempting to suggest otherwise is a flawed argument given that the EEs are in no way special in this regard compared to the rest of the industry. I don't ignore the bug lists. I've reported a few of my own at various times. But, I also understand that the list is no more than the average game with Baldur's Gate's complexity. Elder Scrolls games and Fallout games (both Bethesda and Black Isle) still have bugs and oversights that require third-party mods to fix even after full development cycles of patches. Team Fortress 2, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Borderlands 2, Battlefield 4, every game I currently play removes and introduces new bugs with every patch. That's how fixes work, how that have always worked, and how they will ALWAYS work.
As a totally random note, people hating on Black Pits might want to give it a chance (acknowledging some may have). I had no interest in it myself (thinking "Without NPCs, what's the point?"), but ended up playing it to kill time while waiting for a new patch to fix some BGII stuff (like carrying over the romance flag).
It was surprisingly fun, and I ended up going through it all. Baeloth's a hoot, and there's a lot of quality humour and little subplots with all the vendor NPCs and the helpful(?) trapped Beholder. If you haven't tried it and it's only the concept that puts you off, I'd encourage those people like me to give it a whirl. It's at least a fun way to try out some character classes you may not have ever gotten around to in the main game (Avenger Druid for me).
Black Pits II seems even more interesting, with more subplots and stuff to do aside from pure fighting, though I've only just started it (mostly trying to finish the main game with my evil party first). Although it boggles me that there is no easy one-step way to import your BP1 party into BP2.
Black Pits was indeed an interesting romp. Putting together dream parties is fun, especially with the new kits and half-orcs thrown into the mix. There are some pretty cool fights. It's some of Mark Meer's best non-Shepard voice work.
Black Pits makes me excited for the possibility of an Icewind Dale EE in the future, because it's clear that some of Overhaul's team want to put together a polished hack-and-slash.
To those saying that adding content is expected to desired. I say would you want someone adding content to your favourite movie or book for no other reason than to add more content? Adding content to a game from another developer is never ok. IF you have the license you make your own. Don't alter the original content. That's disrespectful, and VERY arrogant.
I've played both Pits and they're both pointless and utterly redundant. Being diametrically opposed to the direction and focus of the core game that add nothing of value, and are at best a competent distraction. I despise them. They feel like additional content for the sake of saying "look we added more stuff." Just awful.
Comments
Not necessarily. I imagine it could be implemented in such a way that you can choose between a custom static portrait or an animated one automatically generated by the game. In NWN2 there is a similar system (without the animation IIRC), because you can have a custom portrait or have the game generate a 3D one from the (N)PC avatar.
Anyway, I agree with @CrevsDaak that this is not really needed.
@Erg (and everyone else who might feel this is for him/her/it) this is for the OP (original poster, the only one who is over powered here is I).
My biggest gripes are the UI which is overly clunky (and lets not forget all the pointless screens you have to go through to load your game or exit the program... seriously?!?!?!?), and the sprites. The sprites should have been replaced.
As for backgrounds, I wasnt wanting them changed in any way, but smart localized post effects could add more realistic water effects, or better/smoother foliage animations for example. At no point should the hand drawn art be changed or replaced, as that would be no different than content replacement and would alter the feel too much.
Its all opinion though. I am VERY happy that Overhaul was not allowed to alter the core game, as that would detract from the experience. BG and BGII should not have new content put in by anyone other than the original creators, its akin to someone grabbing a classic novel and inserting additional fanfic chapters. Just no.
The enhancement should only be on improving the aesthetics, usability, and functionality. Content is sacrosanct. In that regard the time put in to the new NPCs and The Black Pit is imo a complete waste of resources.
It would be nice for there to be more options. Provide a few UI themes for example.
To me an enhanced edition should be akin to a top tier Blu-Ray reissue. Leave the content alone and present it to current and new audiences better than its ever been. Pristine visuals (or as pristine as is possible), and richer sound. Polish out the defects, and a few enhancements where needed. That's it.
All of the engine tweaking is HUGELY appreciated, but for the asking price I expected more.
And, I mean, if you're going to advocate the purist approach of deleting characters you don't have to use in the first place, maybe you're better off with the original version anyway.
@Shin: The BG games were never "abandoned", though. BioWare released them, patched them (to a point), and that was it. The only thing that's different about these particular games is that the modding community has remained active for so many years afterwards (all the more remarkable given the relatively sparse attention given to other IE games such as "Icewind Dale" or "Planescape Torment"). What you define as "untapped potential" is actually the game's ability to be modded to the point of being unrecognizable as Baldur's Gate - that doesn't mean the games themselves are any more incomplete than every other game that concludes its post-release cycle.
As for whether the EEs benefit the community: maybe so (though BG:EE's been out for a year and I don't exactly see an ocean of new mod quests and NPCs, so much as adaptations of outdated mods that aren't being in any way revised or updated to incorporate EE content) but those considerations don't factor into a player's ability to enjoy the actual game...
As for what adds to the experience and what constitutes modding "to the point of being unrecognizable as Baldur's Gate", that's about as subjective as the post that started this thread - but that's also the charm of modding, being able to tailor the game depending on how you like to play it.
And while there may not have been "an ocean" of new mods, there has been some. Again I think our perspectives in terms of what we expect and how fast we expect it are completely different. Either way, while it may not factor into the enjoyment of an isolated playthrough for a single player, it still benefits the overall state of the game. This may not matter to a reviewer doing a job, but to everyone coming here and posting as players of the game expressing levels of enthusiasm and expectations, I'm compelled to bring it up as a point of view.
Also I think Black Pits 1 and 2 offer a lot in humour (Baeloth!) and a fun distraction from a game that can sometimes be overwhelming in its size.
The Black Pits is also great for trying different or unusual character builds.
I can tell, almost sure, that it wasn't the Black Pits and the new NPCs what took the most time, and the Load/Save/Game screens are the same since BG1 (well, almost!), if you know how to make a new UI, you can do so, in the Infinity Engine you can change almost everything, and, well, I didn't appreciated the Black Pits, and I only see the new NPCs good because 1)Now we can run an evil party without an Thief PC. 2)Run a BG1 without picking those idiotic good-aligned mages and taking Neera instead, I know, I treat them as the tools they are.
I know this can be bothersome, but, it is what they did, and that because you don't care about the new modding capabilities BG:EE has, they've externalized a LOT of files as IDS, so now you can easily change things like the Familiars you get depending on your alignement (you had to edit the .GAM file for that....) and now Haer'Dalis has his Resistances corrected in SoA (not too much but it bothered me a lot, I still have the vanilla, and that was one of the first thins I changed in my game), more things have been externalized of the .GAM and other giant files that you couldn't edit without fearing the consecuences, now summons have their own list, some race identifiers and General identifiers have been corrected (*cough*0x1 HUMANOID undead *cough* 0x0 GENERAL_ITEM golem *cough*) to work properly (still, I wonder why don't they use the fucking Immunity to Turn Undead some bazterdz from BG2 have *cough* Bodhi *cough*), most of this things remain unknown to "those-that-do-not-toy-with-the-game's-files", because, well, they aren't very interesting things, but they are worth to mention that they were changed, that types of things make the game an Enhanced Edition for me, besides compatibility with other devices (now I am in the v1.2.2023? Of the iPad edition, as a Beta tester who didn't get his badge nor is going to be mentioned cuz' I'm freaking too evil), which is one of the best improvements to the Infinity Engine ever done, because, some games need an EE just for that, and for bug fixing, lots of bug fixing (yep, I am talking 'bout Planescape Torment, the best CRPG ever made, and still one of the buggiest ever too), new animations are almost impossible to do. They are Pre-rendered, they are 2D versions of 3D versions that were lost, that is why we can't get an HD version, also, for HD games you have an array of those so-called-rpgs (they are so bithching deviants bazterdz that they don't even pit the C before RPG!) like Skyrim and those, I would also like a BG:EHDE (BG:Enhanced HIgh Definition Edition), but I do care more for pther things like improved compatibility, buf-fixing and whatever else. Also multiplayer is very (literally) stable in the beta I am testing, and it is not supposed for it to work so good.
1) I never mentioned Neera in my post. I don't think she's overpowered. However, of the new NPCs, she is the one I like less. Nothing personal, I just don't like Wild Mages. I don't think I will use her ever again, but that's just me.
2) I can't judge Hexxat nor any content of BG2:EE as I don't have it.
3) Your argument about Dorn not being overpowered is to compare him to Sarevok, a TOB only NPC, really? Dorn is recruitable pretty early in BG1:EE, the comparison is moot IMO!
4) I never said that Rasaad is overpowered, but that the items in his quest line (at least in BG1:EE as I don't know anything about his quest(s) in BG2:EE) are.
5) The new NPCs feel different to me than the original ones, in the same way other NPCs from mods do. Thus I will only compare them to other NPCs from mods and never to the original NPCs, but that's just me, feel free to disagree.
I generally find that they fit a lot better in BG2EE, regardless of what some detractors say. Their dialogue is no longer fully voiced, but instead follows the general 'voiced first line/important dialogues' of the normal NPCs, and they have a roughly equivalent number of ordinary lines, as well as 1-2 banters with the other NPCs, which are the norm. Their ToB quests are the most stand out sections (since nobody else gets these), but I found their SoA quests fits relatively well outside the fact you need them to do them. I found, however, that Rasaad and Neera had more relative content than Dorn or Hexxat.
Examples:
Once most of these bugs are fixed, I will accept your assertion that the EE's are clearly a preferable choice to the originals. But not until then.
1. You made a blanket statement about the EE NPCs being overpowered - Neera is an EE NPC.
2. Hexxat is also an EE NPC.
3. You could just as easily argue that Keldorn is a better option than Dorn too - not only does he have higher CON and can wield Carsomyr, but his Dispel Magic abilities are far more useful in BG2 than Dorn's Aura of Despair.
4. The only item in Rasaad's quest that could possibly be considered "overpowered" is that cursed belt that gives you 19 STR and 6 INT, and there are potions in the game that can give you even higher STR without the drawback.
5. I understand what you're saying, I'm just not clear on what you're basing that comparison on. You started by saying the NPCs were overpowered, but you weren't referring to Neera, Rasaad or Hexxat; then you said the items you got on their quests were overpowered, despite the fact that there are items in the original which do pretty much the same thing.
Obviously, if you're used to the original versions, the EE NPCs will feel different in the same way NPC mods do - but that's how you perceive the game, not an inherent fault with the character designs. I played BG and BG2 for the first time about two years ago, so I never had that kind of deep nostalgic attachment to the originals; and as a result, I can accept Dorn, Hexxat, Rasaad and Neera just fine within the context of the Enhanced Edition.
I'm not prepared to declare the EEs as the definitive version just yet - not while BG1NPC and Ascension are still incompatible, and so many bugs persist specifically in relation to the new content - but the journey to get there may not be as long as you'd think...
Personally, I find these photos confirmation that I do NOT want animated portraits at ALL.
Yet if there was a choice all I'd have to do is click "no, thanks" and keep my beautiful painted portraits, so why not? To each his own.
The same thing applied to BG1:EE when it was released, but at least then the fixes were coming out faster and more frequently which made it more bearable.
After all, I do believe it's only mods that kept the game alive until this day. I, for that matter, bought the game mainly because of possibility to play it in well made 1920x1080 (I've heard bad things about mods that do that) and new content exactly.
Personally for me, the Blackpits are just pointless, if they were made into part of the main game then sure i would like them, but as stand alone content i could not care less whether it was there or not.
To note: you have also submitted numerous bugs that have been marked as fixed.
It is 'sprawling out of control' because we have to go through and filter out all the duplicate threads (there are a lot, especially for things like Saemon and using the boat (there was at least four for that, and I merged a couple and moved some more)) as well as clearing the backlog; a lot of which has been fixed, is not an issue, is a duplicate, or has not provided enough information to diagnose the issue, but still needs to be sorted out to ensure all possible bug reports at least get looked at. If you think that the bug section is getting out of control, then I'll shoulder part of that blame. If you want to send me a PM with a list of links for the most game breaking, I'll take a look. Otherwise you'll be waiting until someone gets to them, just like everyone else.
It was surprisingly fun, and I ended up going through it all. Baeloth's a hoot, and there's a lot of quality humour and little subplots with all the vendor NPCs and the helpful(?) trapped Beholder. If you haven't tried it and it's only the concept that puts you off, I'd encourage those people like me to give it a whirl. It's at least a fun way to try out some character classes you may not have ever gotten around to in the main game (Avenger Druid for me).
Black Pits II seems even more interesting, with more subplots and stuff to do aside from pure fighting, though I've only just started it (mostly trying to finish the main game with my evil party first). Although it boggles me that there is no easy one-step way to import your BP1 party into BP2.
Black Pits makes me excited for the possibility of an Icewind Dale EE in the future, because it's clear that some of Overhaul's team want to put together a polished hack-and-slash.
I've played both Pits and they're both pointless and utterly redundant. Being diametrically opposed to the direction and focus of the core game that add nothing of value, and are at best a competent distraction. I despise them. They feel like additional content for the sake of saying "look we added more stuff." Just awful.