Do you realise that there's something very ironic about making posts that contain nothing but criticism of others for "derailing the topic"? Because unless there is additional content there, then that post is itself derailing (or continuing an existing derail) of the topic. In the post above this one for example there is nothing that is on-topic. Hypocrite, much?
On-topic, I agree with those saying that Keldorn cannot know that Charname is worth it. Keldorn hopes that Charname is, but expresses clear doubts about it through his dialogues and interactions. As long as Charname is willing to fight the evil within, then he is happy to help; Keldorn ultimately wants a positive ending, even if he doesn't know that he can get one.
I feel less intelligent by reading the tennisgolfboll's posts regarding Drizzt being "an evil and scummy drow" that Keldorn has a problem with you killing. It's times like this where I think Minsc is glad he's illiterate.
I can understand your feelings, tennisgolfboll. The NPCs ditching you and siding with Drizzt is one of the major reasons why I so strongly prefer an evil play through. I can still remember me raising my fists in anger and deciding to give up completely on my FIRST playthrough when my romance interest, Jaheira, decided to walk out on me and side with that silly fool they call Drizzt.
On the other hand, Viconia became my new favorite romance character when she shouted the lines supporting my bloodlust-induced, irrational, and completely chaotic decision to murder a famous adventuring party of good repute (which is undoubtedly a product of my desire to roleplay the murderous lineage of my charname and has nothing to do with wanting a good challenge, extra loot to sell and feeling annoyed that scripts are telling me what I can and cannot do).
Oh yeah, ever since then, I killed Drizzt on EVERY subsequent play through.
So keldorn betrays you for an evil little drow (drizzt). Any other place he betrays you?
I am going to kill the silver dragon will he protest to this to?
I take it you are oblivious to Drizzt's history as one of the very few drow to renounce the evil ways of Lolth (for good reasons), and the fact that he is chaotic good aligned? Keldorn is aware of Drizzt's heroics, which is why he betrays you if you attack Drizzt and his companions.
And to answer your question, if your reputation is very low, Keldorn will attack you after you made your first transformation into the Ravager or whatever Bhaal's avatar is called. And I'm sure he would attack you if you attack that silver dragon. I know Mazzy does.
I can understand your feelings, tennisgolfboll. The NPCs ditching you and siding with Drizzt is one of the major reasons why I so strongly prefer an evil play through. I can still remember me raising my fists in anger and deciding to give up completely on my FIRST playthrough when my romance interest, Jaheira, decided to walk out on me and side with that silly fool they call Drizzt.
Keldorn (the paladin) and Jaheira (the Harper) are the only ones who walk away if you attack Drizzt. That's two NPCs out of twenty-two - just take Mazzy and Cernd instead and you'll be fine.
Keldorn (the paladin) and Jaheira (the Harper) are the only ones who walk away if you attack Drizzt. That's two NPCs out of twenty-two - just take Mazzy and Cernd instead and you'll be fine.
Oh God, please don't taint otherwise good advice by suggesting people take Cernd... Valid point otherwise, of course!
@PawnSlayer: He may have the personality of a brick, but he is the best choice to sub for Jaheira if you're in need of druidic magic.
Druids being arguably the worst class in the game, that's not much of a reason to go for him. Jaheira is significantly better than Cernd, who is, admittedly, the only alternative.
Clerics don't have Druidic spells. Their divine list is similar but not identical. Iron Skins is a great example of a spell that Druids have but Clerics don't.
Ranger/Clerics get druid spells, though. Why? No one knows. Exploit that was never fixed. It's horribly cheaty, but fun to play around with, admittedly.
Clerics don't have Druidic spells. Their divine list is similar but not identical. Iron Skins is a great example of a spell that Druids have but Clerics don't.
Apparently that changes if you have a Ranger/Cleric - for some reason this combination gets all the Druid spells along with their Cleric spells. I've never actually tried it but I've read it enough times to believe it's true.
Clerics don't have Druidic spells. Their divine list is similar but not identical. Iron Skins is a great example of a spell that Druids have but Clerics don't.
Apparently that changes if you have a Ranger/Cleric - for some reason this combination gets all the Druid spells along with their Cleric spells. I've never actually tried it but I've read it enough times to believe it's true.
Well the reason is quite easy to explain: Sloppy coding. Rangers use the druid spell pool when determining what spells they can memorize, but are pretty much limited to spell levels 1-3, iirc. However, with the multi/dual class option to cleric, they still maintain their druid spell pool, but in addition to the cleric one. Now because this was sloppily coded, this means that the ranger could get druid levels well above his station because the cleric levels boosted his over all spells per day to the point where he can gain up to level 7 druid spells, as well as cleric ones.
It's a super hard-core exploit. And it beats the hell out of Cernd every which way. So yeah, screw Cernd. Cleric/Ranger.
EDIT: I should also mention that because of this being an exploit, Ranger/Clerics are among what I'd say is the top-five easy to win with builds in the game.
I'm not so eager to call the Ranger/Cleric advantages an exploit, I think its a reasonable interpretation of 2E rules. Remember in 2E there really is no such thing as a "Druid Spell"; Cleric and Druids all draw from the same pool of "Priest Spells", that are further defined by spheres of influence. The various deities grant their clergy major or minor access to different spheres of power to determine who gets what spells. Well minor access means level one and two spells only. So a Ranger can cast up to third levels by having MAJOR access to the same spheres a Druid gets (plant, animal, etc). I think its a reasonable extension to say a cleric/ranger would gain that greater access to every sphere of influence he had as a Ranger. Of course I'd call it DM's privilege to rule otherwise too. But I don't believe the fact that cleric/ranger is a very powerful multi-class necessarily proves there's anything wrong with that. I see no reason or guarantee that every class combination needs to be equally powerful or effective.
Now, that was quite an interesting topic to read. I only Alt-Tabbed from SoA to find some info about Desharik and now, three hours later and still not back in the game, I'm sitting here after reading the whole thread almost choking cause I'm trying not to laugh too loud at 3 am and wake everyone up in my house.
So that would be my first appearance on this forum and you guys already convinced me to stay. Wow, I'd never think that going back to BG's after all these years would become so much of a thrill for this kid that's still somewhere inside me.
And sorry for the off-topic, but please...
I just read a full retard argument over Keldorn: 1. Betraying charname for killing THE Drizzt Do'friggin'Urden, 2. Killing Knights of The Radiant Heart after the ambush ( it doesn't work... yes it does... No, I just checked, he turns against me when I do it... no I just did it and he's cool with it... stop trolling!!... Which knights do you mean? Are you talking about the random ones that hunt you because of Firkraag? YES!!... Oh.. Work on your English, will you?! ) 3. Struggling with charnames metagame decisions, 4. Not being sure if as a LAWFUL GOOD INQUISITOR he will have something against slaying a silver dragon...
And the whole argument leads to a conclusion, that Ranger/Cleric is better than Cernd.. Srsly guys.
Lol please don't stop, Keldorn should kill Drizzt as everyone knows he's a Drow!.All Drow are evil, everyone knows that. silver Dragons too cause all Dragons are evil, that's why it's called dungeons and dragons. do your job Keldorn! On topic; I think Cernd is a pretty cool guy. Eh kills ranger/clerics and doesnt afraid of anything.
Oh. My. God. @Heindrich1988 you just blew my mind. Seriously though, I just checked it myself, it feels like OP is Kalah and you just busted his little circus show o_o
Goodness, I hate to see so many good friends getting upset.
I just read the whole thread, and I agree that the OP is being needlessly confrontational towards people who are trying their best to be friendly, and he doesn't seem to understand why his word choices are provoking anger from Keldorn's many fans.
But, did anybody ever actually answer the question during all this arguing back and forth?
I just tried to google the answer, phrasing the question two different ways, and this very thread is what comes up on top, while none of the other hits answer the question. It's surprisingly hard to find the information.
So, I'm curious for myself now. *Does* Keldorn either leave the party or attack and side with Adalon if you attack her? One would assume that he would, but can anyone here *confirm* that he does?
Also, which is it? Does he merely leave, or does he actually attack you?
I did some research back on page 2. As far as I can tell, attacking Adalon doesn't provoke any party members into leaving. I also found a couple lists of incidents that cause Keldorn to drop party, and Adalon was not listed among them.
@Madhax, thanks. Maybe everybody just *assumes* that Keldorn will turn on you if you attack Adalon, because that would make a lot of sense. But, most people never try it to find out, because if one is playing *that* kind of evil game ("kill everything that moves and take its loot"), they would be very unlikely to still have Keldorn in their party by the time they get to Adalon.
The thing is, the OP says he has Keldorn with him when he encounters Drizzt. Doesn't that only happen *after* you've been through the Underdark? That would mean that he should have already killed Adalon, and thus, should already know the answer to his own question.
I could be wrong about the order of events, though. I don't remember what exactly triggers that Drizzt encounter - I only know that the last time I did a full SoA run, it happened very late in the game, and I had already been through the Underdark and the Adalon encounter.
And since I almost always play good, it's never even occurred to me to attack Adalon.
Well, that was a long way to actually answer the damn question. I wasn't even going to get involved in this discussion, but the more I read the less I could resist to actually sum up the whole thread from an outsider's point of view heheh. Still I can't quite understand why would anyone who sticks with Keldorn actually want to kill Drizzt.. or Adalon. Doesn't seem like worth further discussion though
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Lol yeah you fo sure not derailing the topic.
On-topic, I agree with those saying that Keldorn cannot know that Charname is worth it. Keldorn hopes that Charname is, but expresses clear doubts about it through his dialogues and interactions. As long as Charname is willing to fight the evil within, then he is happy to help; Keldorn ultimately wants a positive ending, even if he doesn't know that he can get one.
On the other hand, Viconia became my new favorite romance character when she shouted the lines supporting my bloodlust-induced, irrational, and completely chaotic decision to murder a famous adventuring party of good repute (which is undoubtedly a product of my desire to roleplay the murderous lineage of my charname and has nothing to do with wanting a good challenge, extra loot to sell and feeling annoyed that scripts are telling me what I can and cannot do).
Oh yeah, ever since then, I killed Drizzt on EVERY subsequent play through.
And to answer your question, if your reputation is very low, Keldorn will attack you after you made your first transformation into the Ravager or whatever Bhaal's avatar is called. And I'm sure he would attack you if you attack that silver dragon. I know Mazzy does.
Oh yeah i remember the ravager part never seen it myself but remember it.
Are you sure keldorn will accept killing adalon?
I think i killed her years with him but im not certain...
It's a super hard-core exploit. And it beats the hell out of Cernd every which way. So yeah, screw Cernd. Cleric/Ranger.
EDIT: I should also mention that because of this being an exploit, Ranger/Clerics are among what I'd say is the top-five easy to win with builds in the game.
:P
...That doesn't mean I don't use 'em and abuse 'em for all their worth, though. I give in to temptation. ;_;
Of course I'd call it DM's privilege to rule otherwise too. But I don't believe the fact that cleric/ranger is a very powerful multi-class necessarily proves there's anything wrong with that. I see no reason or guarantee that every class combination needs to be equally powerful or effective.
So that would be my first appearance on this forum and you guys already convinced me to stay. Wow, I'd never think that going back to BG's after all these years would become so much of a thrill for this kid that's still somewhere inside me.
And sorry for the off-topic, but please...
I just read a full retard argument over Keldorn:
1. Betraying charname for killing THE Drizzt Do'friggin'Urden,
2. Killing Knights of The Radiant Heart after the ambush ( it doesn't work... yes it does... No, I just checked, he turns against me when I do it... no I just did it and he's cool with it... stop trolling!!... Which knights do you mean? Are you talking about the random ones that hunt you because of Firkraag? YES!!... Oh.. Work on your English, will you?! )
3. Struggling with charnames metagame decisions,
4. Not being sure if as a LAWFUL GOOD INQUISITOR he will have something against slaying a silver dragon...
And the whole argument leads to a conclusion, that Ranger/Cleric is better than Cernd.. Srsly guys.
I think i would have wanted my 10 minutes back if i had stumbled upon it as a reader.
: )
I can't even..
I just read the whole thread, and I agree that the OP is being needlessly confrontational towards people who are trying their best to be friendly, and he doesn't seem to understand why his word choices are provoking anger from Keldorn's many fans.
But, did anybody ever actually answer the question during all this arguing back and forth?
I just tried to google the answer, phrasing the question two different ways, and this very thread is what comes up on top, while none of the other hits answer the question. It's surprisingly hard to find the information.
So, I'm curious for myself now. *Does* Keldorn either leave the party or attack and side with Adalon if you attack her? One would assume that he would, but can anyone here *confirm* that he does?
Also, which is it? Does he merely leave, or does he actually attack you?
Thanks.
I did some research back on page 2. As far as I can tell, attacking Adalon doesn't provoke any party members into leaving. I also found a couple lists of incidents that cause Keldorn to drop party, and Adalon was not listed among them.
The thing is, the OP says he has Keldorn with him when he encounters Drizzt. Doesn't that only happen *after* you've been through the Underdark? That would mean that he should have already killed Adalon, and thus, should already know the answer to his own question.
I could be wrong about the order of events, though. I don't remember what exactly triggers that Drizzt encounter - I only know that the last time I did a full SoA run, it happened very late in the game, and I had already been through the Underdark and the Adalon encounter.
And since I almost always play good, it's never even occurred to me to attack Adalon.
Lol you are the best troll i have ever seen.
Rambling on about anything at all but the topic!! Awesome