Skipping BG2 Romances
jacobtan
Member Posts: 655
I'm probably not the only one who thinks this way, but who hates all three BG2 female romances and doesn't play any of them?
IMO, the three romances boil down to the following:
Aerie - "Aww, my wings! You think I'm **** because I've no wings? If you don't, can you **** me?"
Jaheira - "I'm the mother you never had. Now mother is horny. Be a good boy and make mother happy."
Viconia - "You lowly male worm, (blah blah anti-male talk), but you look good for a ****. I wanna **** and I want it NOW."
Even in the Underdark, Phaere wants to have sex with the PC.
I strongly object to this sexualization of the PC. Wish I could be like Fall-From-Grace (the chaste succubus from Planescape Torment) and say "Look, I'm sexy and I know it, but you're the sort of woman who makes me stay chaste."
IMO, the three romances boil down to the following:
Aerie - "Aww, my wings! You think I'm **** because I've no wings? If you don't, can you **** me?"
Jaheira - "I'm the mother you never had. Now mother is horny. Be a good boy and make mother happy."
Viconia - "You lowly male worm, (blah blah anti-male talk), but you look good for a ****. I wanna **** and I want it NOW."
Even in the Underdark, Phaere wants to have sex with the PC.
I strongly object to this sexualization of the PC. Wish I could be like Fall-From-Grace (the chaste succubus from Planescape Torment) and say "Look, I'm sexy and I know it, but you're the sort of woman who makes me stay chaste."
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Combine this with the fact shes gone from a relatively peaceful and joyful circus life to one where everyone is murdering someone at least once or twice a day. Its insane, when you think about it. I actually like how she reacts to all the violence and bloodshed, I think its much more realistic then the reaction other characters who have never lived this sort of life, such as Nalia, have. Add this to the stress and despair shes already under and yes, shes going to seek some sort of relief, someone to vent too. How often do you vent to someone when you're upset, after all?
She also has her wing scars nice and hidden. In a DnD game I am running a once virtuous priest was tortured by demons, but one particularly evil fellow said "Do not leave scars and mutilation where it shows. leave it hidden. Leave it shameful. Leave it so he can hide it like a shameful little secret, constantly thinking to himself that no matter how people react to him, no matter how attractive they might say he is, he will always put himself down by reminding himself they would change their minds should they so much as glance the horrid mutilations of his body." I think that says it all.
This all being said, I don't want to romance Aerie. Shes in a delicate place and does not need the complications of a relationship. What she needs is a support friend who can help her love herself rather then find strength in someone else. I truly wish there was an Aerie friendship mod because I do find her endearing, I just want to help her without needing to treat her as an object romantic desire.
As for Viconia? I find her endearing too, I admit one has to suffer a bit of abuse to romance her, well, more then a bit, but every relationship has a few rocky bumps here and there. It worked very well for my paladin PC. It makes perfect sense for her character to want a physical relationship, though I admit she does seem to turn on you a bit too fast. All and all I find her romance perfectly fine for someone of her character, but I can understand why others would not want her. After all, she can be a bit...Lets go with aggressively opinionated.
Jaheira I won't even try to defend. I have never been able to play out her romance because:
1.Shes old enough to be your mother.
2.I always pictured her as a mentor and in a way motherly figure (a stern motherly figure) to CHARNAME
3.Khald.Just.Freakin.Died. No seriously, this is what gets me the most. How long has she had these feelings for you that she immediately entertains them the moment her husband dies? I would love to comfort her over his death but without the romance, thanks.
4.You're the child of a good friend of hers. Imagine this from a modern perspective. A man has a adopted kid, invites a friend of his over that happens to be female, even is said kid is now 18 its still creepy if they start romancing.
5.The only reason shes romancable is shes Abel's romantic interest in the books/cancerous paper abominations.
I can easily understand your position, though. Me? I'm a hopeless romantic sort and like to have deeper relationships with all my party members. Idealy I'd like to raise Aerie up and teach her inner strength as her friend, be the support Jaheira wants and bang Viconia while eventually winning her heart...*coughs* What can I say? Shes hot.
If I really have to romance someone... I'd rather someone like... Deionarra from PST. That type of love... goes beyond simple sexual gratification. For me, love does not and need not always lead to sex.
Looks will fade. Bodies will waste away. Sex isn't dirty but I think it should be done sparingly, and only at appropriate times. I pursue emotional gratification, so I role-play accordingly
I've thought about it and realized Khalid is the hesitation Jaheira needs in her life and Jaheira is the assertiveness and aggression Khalid lacks. They complete each other, and I think they genuinely love each other. I wish this aspect of the characters got explored more.
Instead Khalid got killed so Jaheira could be romanced because thats what happened in the book and BG2 does not like duos apparently. Thats what I resent, not Jaheira herself
I also like Khalid and Jaheira more as a couple. I find them both endearing and agree that they have a great dynamic. Her romance is... Eh, I guess it's quite good. But honestly, even if you keep it platonic, I think that in general, Jaheira has a really awesome character arc and series of quests in BG2. It isn't even the romance aspect of it that I like so much. She, just as a character in your party - and as a friend to CHARNAME - is generally great to have around.
Not to mention a terrific spell caster.
Easily my favorite character and romance.
That said, I don't really like to romance Aerie, as the ToB part of her romance is one of my least favorite things ever.
"Oh...my wings...oh I wish I could fly!"
"Do you...find me...attractive...with my scars?"
"I don't think others can really understand how it is...without being able to fly"
Blah blah blah, whiny, whiny, WHINY!!!!!!
Contrary to what Aerie believes, I am NOT a psychiatrist! Get it together, or you get kicked from the party, you BLEEP little BLEEP!
Seriously, that Avariel has real issues...as if I don't have enough problems already! And she is sooooo self-centered!
I mean...I was tortured by some insane elf (after being imprisoned, all my items and property stripped!), then I managed to get free, and now I have to run around in some dump doing gods-knows-what trying to earn a ridiculous amount of coin so that I can finally get some revenge here...all the time having to fend off nightmares, some idiotic I-am-not-dead-yet bothers, and this heritage!
And do you think that stuck-on-herself, oh I lost my wings how terrible self-centered little BLEEP gives a flying BLEEP!?
Nope.
Now get out there and make yourself useful! Go on! It is only a lich, fer cryin' out loud!
Sheesh!
Considering all the things she's been through, she's remarkably together. And really, unless you're the sole survivor of a war in which your entire civilization was destroyed and you're the last surviving member of your race, you're just not in a position to describe anyone being kidnapped, enslaved, and tortured, stripped of their identity etc, as whining.
And self centered? No. The Bhaalspawn is actually the only person she ever tries to confide in about anything; every conversation she starts with every other character is always her asking about them and what they think/believe.
If the Bhaalspawn wanted to confide in anyone about they're problems, I'm sure Aerie would be willing to listen as well, like the way she comforts Minsc. Or if not, or if the Bhaalspawn isn't interested in hearing about her problems, he can just tell her and she'll stop talking to him about it.
But as Coutelier mentions, she only makes these complaints in an active romance. The bulk of her dialogue is encouraging others and fighting for good causes. And if you're in an active romance with someone, I think playing counselor is part of the job description.
First, Aerie has gone through a lot. Second, not everyone is equally "strong" - the way people (including Avariel, I suppose) react to hardships varies a great deal, and there's not an awful lot you can do about your neurological makeup. (Go tell someone who suffers from height-induced vertigo that they should just stop, and if they punch you in the face, you deserved it.) Third, although Aerie's recent demons do surface and she does react to them rather vocally, she - and this is crucial - is willing to take heart, listen to charname's reasoning and, most importantly, not give up.
I can understand that Aerie may look whiny to someone who's so macho that they'd rather commit suicide than cry, for instance.
Aerie is fine. She's got great courage, although she's prone to the occasional burst of fear and self-doubt. There's nothing wrong with this.
"I don't care! I don't care! CHARNAME, I can't stand this! I can't stand *her*, and I especially can't stand being stuck on the ground like some worm. Oh Baervan, help me!"
When I first read this, I wanted to boot her from my party and chunk her. Seriously.
She has intrinsic good traits, hence her alignment, her desire to help others and protect her friends, and so on. Yet she is also a spoiled brat who is willing to resort to personal attacks to get her way. Granted, she is not perfect and nobody is demanding that she should be, but when everyone in the party has a sad story to tell, her "I'm the queen of the universe! I'm been through worse than everyone of you! Oh, all of you lament my fate!" behavior is just downright annoying.
Anomen, for all his obvious and numerous faults, does have the potential to see things in a different light, as time goes by. As far as I know, Edwin is not interested in anything except his own preconceptions.
First of all, yes, Aerie had some bad experiences, stranger in a strange land, all that. But her people were NOT destroyed, contrary to what one posted. She is just estranged from them, because she is flightless, now. The Avariel live on as a People, above and beyond the mundane surfacers.
Nothing a good Regeneration spell would not fix, btw. Or a Wish, for that matter. All of which she will be capable of casting, herself.
Either A) Accept your fate (I am flightless, deal with it!)
or
Second, she is totally naive. Especially after what she has gone through, one would think that she would already be a bit hardened. Anyone who has even remotely experienced a few bad things (not to mention really terrible things) knows how that hardens, and how quickly it does. Hard reality leaves little room for naivety.
Third, yes, she is whiny. She does bemoan her fate a number of times, and does make some rather emotional outbursts. Apologetics aside, this is the truth. If Charname romances her, then he has to put up with quite a bit of this. It takes a loooong time before she becomes anywhere near self-confident.
But the thing that bothers me the most, realistically speaking, is her choice of belief here. I can rationalize her grief (though I have been through much worse than her and I don't bemoan my fate), I can attempt to try to understand and forgive her naivety, and I can even try to cope with her whininess.
But seriously, her choice of a god is just plain bananas.
I mean, she is a CLERIC, for the gods sake!
And you mean to tell me that she worships, represents a gnome god? Just because ol' Uncle Quayle is such a good guy? Forgive me if I purge my innards for a second here.
It is no wonder that her god does not grant her Regeneration for her wings - gnomes don't fly.
It makes absolutely no sense for her to worship a gnome god, and certainly not as a Cleric of said Deity. At worst, she should worship and serve Ilmater. At best, one of the Avariel Gods, never losing hope of someday flying again...IMHO.
I once played an Avariel in NWN that lost his wings - long ago, as he was young, his wings were horribly mangled by an attack of Cloud Giants w/ Ogre Magi servants on their Clan. He plummeted down the mountainside, wings mangled and broken. When he awoke, an old hag had taken him in and healed his horrible injuries, but was unable to rescue his wings.
He grew up without wings, bitter and withdrawn. He learned magic from the Hag, and in time, left to persue more magical studies in the lands of the surfacers.
Eventually, Grendal Gren became an Archmage, fashioned wings for himself out of magic, and basically became a plague and a blessing for most in the Silver Marshes.
He never "whined or bemoaned" his fate - instead, he took things into his own hands and dealt with it.
Since Aerie has never gotten over the loss of her wings, it would seem to me that it would be absolutely paramount for her to regain them. As a Cleric/Mage, she has every opportunity and chance to do exactly that. This alone makes her totally unbelievable as a character.
Especially the Mage part. It takes drive and determination to become a Mage - and especially a powerful one! If she is capable of that, then she should be capable of finding a way to regrown or regain her wings.
Seriously, one doesn't just "bumble along and become" a high-level Mage. It just doesn't work like that!
And then we come to her stats - high int and high wis. She doesn't really show any of these, does she? Nope. Somebody wasn't looking at her stats when they wrote her dialogs.
So from just about every aspect, Aerie is just done wrong.
Also yes, some people can go through terrible things and seem to take it in their stride. Sometimes that's a facade that doesn't last and they experience an enormous breakdown at a later date, could even be many years after the fact. And sometimes they just want to talk to someone and cry it all out of them; not every person deals with things the same way. I think with Aerie as well the whole situation is far more complicated than just the loss of her wings; there's also been a lot of other abuse at the hands of the slavers who captured her and her owners in the circus, and even if she could remember where her home was and could fly again, would she really be able to return there anyway?
As for her naivete, well obviously she hasn't experienced much outside the avarial or the strange little microcosm of the circus. I don't think it really surprises her that people do bad things, I think when she asks anything like that it's more the 'why' that still confuses.
I have never taken Aerie before and cannot remember the other Bioware romances as I did them 10 years ago. I just did Neera, though, and it was really easy going. Aerie has been pummeling me about how life is horrible, how she wants to die and how she is not worth to be adventuring. Sometimes sobbing herself to sleep. All that while Charname has his best friend imprisoned/dead somewhere, has just been tortured for some time (lets say a month) two weeks ago, and they are being attacked by people several times a day.
I am sorry, but she could use some perspective on her wing issues if she is unable to realise it herself. Sadly, that ends the romance. So yes, to me she is complaining too much for too little. Imagine if you take her on chapter 6. Woman, I have lost my frigging SOUL. Get over your wings already.
About regenerating them, she says it will not work due to the muscles being weak. Wish can solve that, no doubt.
Anyway, that's my take on the beginning of the romance. Dunno about banters with others, she might be a great girl. Also, she just decided to have a positive outlook on life so things might get better in the romance as well :-)
But, people, she complains a lot at the beginning. That's a fact.
Or you can have the house version, marinated with this exotic blend for spicy effect:
1. Potion of Explosions (for explosive flavor!)
2. Potion of Firebreath (for that spicy kick!)
3. Potion of Fortitude (you better have the stomach for it!)
4. Potion of Superior Healing (in case you're overwhelmed by the taste)
And it's fried with the very best Oil of Fiery Burning!
Maybe you could solve it with wish; better for writers to come up with some reason why you can't though, as otherwise there are lots of problems in the game you could easily solve that way and it would become very boring.
I think the problem people seem to have though is that in the romances most of the discussion is one way; always about the partner and their problems. But then it would be very difficult to write banters for the Bhaalspawn confiding in them as we don't know how you'd want to roleplay your character... but, Aerie does try to comfort Minsc and others so I see no reason to imagine she wouldn't care about your problems as well.