Keldorn: Valygar, I have no wish to offend you, but I can remain silent no longer. You are a great warrior and a true defender of what is moral and right...
Valygar: Why should that offend me, Keldorn?
Keldorn: I think you jest, Valygar... though with you I can never be sure. Of course those words will not give offense. But these may: I have once again been pondering your atheistic beliefs.
Valygar: Keldorn, do not waste your time trying to convert this heathen. I respect what you stand for, but I have no need of a god to serve... even one as worthy as Helm.
Keldorn: So you say. But your actions say otherwise. You defend righteousness and justice as nobly as any knight of the Order. Perhaps you serve the will of Helm despite your protests to the contrary.
Valygar: I will take your words as a compliment, Keldorn... and not a high-handed condemnation of my own beliefs. If you find comfort believing I unwittingly serve Helm, I shall not object.
Keldorn: And since you take comfort denying you serve - thought your actions say otherwise - I shall no longer let it bother me, friend Valygar. I am glad we had this discussion.
Quoting from Faiths and Avatars, under "Druids", the first line goes:
"Druids are specialty priests who fulfill the needs of nature deities".
The major gods of nature (Silvanus, Chauntea, Mielikki and Eldath) all have druids as specialty priests. Silvanus himself is the god of druids. Mielikki is the goddess of rangers (who reports to Silvanus) and is worshipped by Drizzt and Montolio Debrouchee (Drizzt's mentor). Jaheira could be a worshipper of Silvanus since she swears by him (when she's cursed by Baron Ployer). Cernd, I'm not sure.
For me, the best I can do to RP Valygar's spell access is that he is sufficiently attuned to nature that even though he is not specifically worshipping any deity, one of the nature deities is granting him spells. This is not implausible, since deities are also known to masquerade as dead deities and grant spells as part of the act.
@jacobtan: Completely off-topic here, but whenever the name of the goddess Mielikki is mentioned, a Finn cannot help but laugh. It's so silly to see that name among the Eldaths and so on. I wonder who had the original idea to pilfer it...
He has more. You should see the way he snaps at Haer'Dalis, and how he snubs Viconia. Bricks don't snap. So, he isn't quite a brick. I'll transcribe the dialogue shortly
-------
Valygar: Haer’Dalis! Must you insist on plucking away at that blasted instrument?
Haer’Dalis: I must keep it in tune, good sir, lest I strike a sour note with my listeners.
Valygar: Every time you open your mouth, you strike a sour note with me, bard.
Haer’Dalis: A thrust of wit from the dark hawk’s rapier! I had not thought it in you, dear Valygar. Have you been practicing your verbal exchanges with the trees? Alas, they do not strike back.
Valygar: Cease your barking, bard, and leave me alone.
Haer’Dalis: “Bark”? “Leave”? Yet more jests, building on my tree remark? Or just lucky puns, like wisdom tumbling from the lips of a fool?
Valygar: It took you long enough to grasp the root of my remarks.
Haer’Dalis: Oh mercy, great punsman, I beg thee! Your life of solitude has done nothing to dull the stinging points of your stabbing words. I shall retire to a safe distance and resume my plucking beyond your earshot.
Valygar: Thank you, Haer’Dalis. That is all I asked in the first place.
But therein lies the paradox. Priest spells are granted by gods. So there must be a god granting Valygar his spells. I can justify a conversion from ranger to cleric by citing a cleric's greater power against undead (whom he hates) and it's just expanding his connection to whoever is granting him his spells. But how did he get any spells in the first place...
Is this the case with monks, too? Rasaad's SoA quest kinda confused me. He's having a crisis of faith, doesn't know who to believe in but . . . Selune's still giving him sun soul power, no?
But therein lies the paradox. Priest spells are granted by gods. So there must be a god granting Valygar his spells. I can justify a conversion from ranger to cleric by citing a cleric's greater power against undead (whom he hates) and it's just expanding his connection to whoever is granting him his spells. But how did he get any spells in the first place...
Is this the case with monks, too? Rasaad's SoA quest kinda confused me. He's having a crisis of faith, doesn't know who to believe in but . . . Selune's still giving him sun soul power, no?
IIRC, in D&D, gods derive power from worship. If Rasaad has a crisis of faith, but still professes lip service to Selune and doesn't renounce his faith, he should still retain his powers. And Selune is a benevolent goddess and the patroness of wanderers and seekers like him, so I doubt she would revoke Rasaad's powers just because he has a crisis of faith; she probably has seen many crises of faith in her believers throughout the millennia.
In Forgotten Realms (and only Forgotten Realms) 3rd edition and below, druids and rangers had to worship a god. I find the easiest explanation for Valygar is that Mielikki sees he's a fine ranger and grants him spells, because even if he doesn't profess to follow her, he does his duties as well as any other good follower of her would.
Once 3.5 came out, there was a small group of evil elves who had learned to receive druid/ranger magic from nature itself thanks to... a lich. (Yeah.) And I don't even want to know what's going on in 4th edition. They took away my favorite god, so I ignore them.
I started boycotting WotC ever since 3.5 came out. In all my campaigns, it will always be AD&D 2nd Ed, 1370/1371 DR. No way am I switching when many of my favorite characters (countries, deities, heroes, villains) were just killed off so unceremoniously.
@jacobtan - I found 3.5 a big improvement on 3.0, and 3.0 better then AD&D by far. Them getting rid of Planescape/Spelljammer/Dark Sun/Birthright and eventually even my dear Ravenloft (though Planescape is my true love)? Less cool. But I often used 3.5 mechanics for an AD&D based game (with some of the more decent elements from 3.5 making it in, but my Forgotten Realms setting will forever use the Great Wheel, for example).
Fourth edition, though, forget it. I could live with the rules changes, though I did like 3.5 better, but what they did to Forgotten Realms? I hated it. (They didn't treat Eberron much nicer, either.) I'm not going to go all dramatic 'ruined forever', but WotC is going to have to try very hard to get me to buy their fifth edition books, and unless the whole Spellplague and everything being destroyed is retconned, I'm probably never going to touch their Forgotten Realms again.
Precisely. Spellplague is one steaming pile of ****. It's a poorly-conceived plot device that attempts to account for all the changes they made. I wouldn't be surprised if it could even result in things as absurd as changes to menstrual cycles of realms women, frequency of bowel movements, and so on.
I lost interest from 3rd Ed onwards when they gave in to pressure to open up the rules. I'm not a fan of having new subraces, free switching among classes, etc. For all the restrictions of AD&D, IMO it was a mature system that tended to err on the side of caution by being restrictive. Breaking the rules were a matter of DM discretion. Opening the system up took away much discretionary power from the DM and put it in players hands, making it tougher for DMs to manage things. I hate that, but that's my preference.
I particularly hated the destruction of the game world. I liked Ravenloft (best campaign setting ever!), Lathander, the Seven Sisters, Halaster, and more. The new editions just wiped them all, though it also helped me save money... Money that I'd no longer spend on WotC ^_^
As hard as it might be to do, I feel like if I ever DM a game, I'm going to make my own world, and then use my favorite edition's rules. Currently I like AD&D 2nd edition, since that's what BG is and since that's my only experience with D&D. I played a game of Pathfinder once, and that's mostly based on 3.5 D&D, right? I really don't know. I've never had a group to play with, so I stuck to my video game RPG's.
As hard as it might be to do, I feel like if I ever DM a game, I'm going to make my own world, and then use my favorite edition's rules. Currently I like AD&D 2nd edition, since that's what BG is and since that's my only experience with D&D. I played a game of Pathfinder once, and that's mostly based on 3.5 D&D, right? I really don't know. I've never had a group to play with, so I stuck to my video game RPG's.
Talking about DMing a game, I really would like to RP how Anomen matures as a person. What we see from his dialogues are snapshots of what he says and does, but we don't know how he thinks and feels.
That said, it seems to me he is quite a rash person (low Wis?) and he doesn't seem to know how to treat a girl properly (from the way he talks to female Charname during his struggles over Saerk). He knows how to sweet-talk, but is too thin-skinned to be an enjoyable lover... it's like having a landmine for a boyfriend - you never know if something you say or do will offend him. I wonder if this should be interpreted as a reflection of himself - he feels he must do certain things in a certain way to win approval from people (his father, the Order) hence he will insist that female Charname do certain things in a certain way to win HIS approval.
I like running 3.5 (which is similar to Pathfinder, which is very good system and is now my go to thanks to WoTC going crazy with their horrible 4th edition). I'm close to my group, so if I said 'despite what book (a random supplement says), you can't have prestige class a in the game', they'd listen to me. So an open system isn't troublesome at all: my players can choose from all sorts of things, and then *I* say if they're allowed or not. I hate the bit about Earth Gensai in the Planescape Player's Guide, for example- it's like 'Earth Genasi paladins should only be limited to NPCs', and I'm like, 'what's the fun of that?' If my players want to play an Earth Gensasi paladin, I'll totally allow it. Or a halfing paladin of Avoreen, for that matter.
But I agree, this only works with a group that has a lot of trust. Thankfully, my group has it, so limitations are boring to me. (Besides, I love psionics, and while 3.5 psionics are balanced, AD&D psionics fall inbetween: 'useless that no one would touch them' and 'totally overpowered crazy that everyone wants'.) I like allowing gnome druids and halfling paladins or whatever; I want my group to be able to play whatever they want to. If the players are having fun, it leads for more fun for me as GM, as they often create their own hooks to play with rather then just like 'my character goes and cuts the orc. the end.'.
(We're a pretty roleplay heavy group, because we started long, long, long ago on World of Darkness's first edition of Vampire the Masquerade. How the years fly by!)
I agree that Anomen would be an interesting character to play, and I might try to play him one day (my group is a rare one that has more gals then men, so me cross-playing doesn't raise any eyebrows). For some reason, though, my group tends to force me to GM if we're playing D&D. I get annoyed sometimes. I want to play, too!
@Twani Make yourself the villain! Make yourself a super strong evil bad guy (or girl) that the group is supposed to defeat eventually. If you want to have even more fun with the concept, you can have another friend be your minion that you occasionally have conversations with! You can totally DM and play at the same time! It just requires a good idea.
I forgot what the topic was here... something about hating the bioware romances. And to be honest, I don't really bother with romance very often. When I do, it obviously depends on the type of character I'm playing as to who I go with, but I might have reasons like:
Jaheira obviously has a long history with the character, typically being the first female who joins your party besides your sister, and anime rules state that the first woman the main character encounters is the one they end up with. Obviously there's a lot of respect for her for all the help she is in those early days of adventuring and her advice and council. In fact, my only grip with Jaheira's romance is that it does seem like she's being pushed on you at times, with her being there at the start of BG2 as well and Khalid conveniently killed off to make things less complicated.
Aerie we talked a lot about. She doesn't give up as much as the other characters do, since she literally nothing left that she can give up. But she's affectionate and wants to help as much as she can. Young, naive, and other than the circus she's still very much an alien in that world and has to experience so much culture shock on top of everything else. But then, the bhaalspawn is supposed to be quite young as well, and it wasn't that long ago he and Imoen were thrust into the world from Candlekeep and were equally bewildered. The imprisonment/torture and having your identity/soul stolen is other reason I think they might bond... but I still maintain the ToB portion of her romance was one of the most ill-conceived things throughout the games.
Viconia is also an alien of course, even though she's much older than anyone (I guess she must have been kicking around the Underdark since the time she ran away and Drizzt was born, only recently venturing up to the surface), an into while the bhaalspawn is still finding their footing as well. Plus, cleavage. If it wasn't for the mood swings and the fact that she's toward almost every other NPC, I might have seen her alignment change more often. I know the good characters aren't always nice to her, but I always feel like she plays up too much to her 'drow' persona, and if she was just a little nicer people wouldn't try to kill her so often.
And Anomen... well, there was only Anomen. Luckily I don't hate any characters, so it's okay for me. He's a 'lad', the way he talks about women and tries to cover up his insecurities by being macho. But that's just immaturity; most men grow out of that. Well, some do... one or two... maybe...
Ah, right, on topic. (And yeah, actually, my group has a tendency for picking up sidekicks, so I usually get to play 'the random person they impressed and drag along in their death defying adventures'. And of course the villain. Still not the same as playing my own character, though...)
So let's talk about Dorn, Neera, Hexxet and Rasaad. How do they compare to the other romances, to you guys? Do any of them come across as needing therapy rather then a lover as the Bioware romances did?
Yeah, I can't comment because they turn me off, except for Rasaad, but I always play male PC. I only remember some rumor that Dorn wants to wrestle with you naked...
Yeah, I can't comment because they turn me off, except for Rasaad, but I always play male PC. I only remember some rumor that Dorn wants to wrestle with you naked...
It isn't a rumor. After fighting with Dorn, I think he does actually suggest that he wants to fight you naked.
Out of all the new romances, I've only done Neera's to completion. To me it didn't come off as needing therapy, rather than a lover.
As for bioware romances...I like Aerie's the most.
EE romances, huh. I just finished my first marathon run of BGEE/BG2EE with neutral/evil party and Dorn as a co-star of this un-romantic tragedy and meh. Beginnings were brilliant, especially in BGEE. I just loved his dialogues, no matter romance-themed or not, the whole idea for harsh, rough and undoubtedly wicked, but still wonderfully insightful guy with tons of issues and obsessions... thing is, Dorn doesn't develop, he un-develops. Him, his quests and relationship with charname become more and more epic and at the same time, shallow like a puddle of mud Don't get me wrong, touchy-feely and/or some kind of traditional redemption arc would suit him even less but I expected something else, or rather, something more. I do realize this kind of character is particularly difficult to write without making him an awful cliche, but since he was introduced in the first place, I just thought the authors realized that. Anyway, there's enough positive things about him that I'm not completely repelled by the sole idea of trying out other EE npcs - but close. A few dialogue lines I had with Neera were... rather awful, no matter my fondness of chaos mages. Please, please tell me that it gets better!
After fighting with Dorn, I think he does actually suggest that he wants to fight you naked.
I believe that, after fighting with you, Dorn suggests some "more intimate sparring" next time, which you can interpret however you want.
So let's talk about Dorn, Neera, Hexxet and Rasaad. How do they compare to the other romances, to you guys? Do any of them come across as needing therapy rather then a lover as the Bioware romances did?
I haven't finished Dorn's romance (or Hexxat's) because both characters are glitchy as hell and I'm waiting for the patch. I can say, though, that so far I am amazed at how completely and utterly dull Hexxat is. This woman has absolutely nothing interesting to say. Nothing. Not to you, and not even to the other NPCs. Every time someone asks her about herself, she just says no or deflects the question. Her conversations with Charname are mostly, "I see how you stare at me" kinds of things.
I have done Rasaad's romance, and sure, he needs therapy about as much as the others, but his was a good storyline. He's capable of treating Charname respectfully, and shows a lot of empathy for all she's gone though. He makes a decision in the romance (I'm not gonna spoil it) that's a little bit soap-opera-bullcrap for the sake of plot drama, but it can work out okay. He and Charname seem to be friends as well as lovers, and I like that a lot.
The in-game description of Hexxat says she is "a mysterious thief serving an even more mysterious master". Maybe that's why she's saying nothing and deflecting the questions. You know, she's... mysterious. Yeah, mysterious. That's right.
Rasaad is the last in my queue and I hope he'll improve my opinion about EE npcs, I always leave the good party for the dessert, but still, meh. It's all so pretty and shiny, it's a shame that just on the outside I still can't get over all the wasted ideas connected with Dorn's plotline. There's just one positive aspect of this - these characters are all holey and shallow, that's right, but it's still better than overabundance of drama and "character development". As my mother used to say, too much good at once is no good at all. It's easier to fill missed opportunities with personal meta and mods than to avoid massive avalanche of FEELS xD
@winters I have the same feelings about Dorn. Where he was awesome in BG1, he was a joke in the second game. I do really like Rasaad so far, and can't wait to finish that romance. Neera is kind of the opposite of Dorn imho. Whereas Dorn started strong then deteriorated, Neera was obnoxious in the first game but enjoyable in the second.
@winters I have the same feelings about Dorn. Where he was awesome in BG1, he was a joke in the second game. I do really like Rasaad so far, and can't wait to finish that romance. Neera is kind of the opposite of Dorn imho. Whereas Dorn started strong then deteriorated, Neera was obnoxious in the first game but enjoyable in the second.
This is what I wanted to hear! I started neutral party run a few hours ago with Neera in it but without conviction, romance isn't essental but I'm all after new content since I can recite most of old one from memory, and romance is a part of it, so. Thank you!
Earlier on, you said Dorn "undevelops". What do you mean by that? is it because he's needy, the romance dies effectively (no more exploration into the relationship), the romance degenerates into some lewd pseudo-porn-fanfic, or something else? My friend also complained about the romance and now simply chunks Dorn when he first meets him, but I didn't find out why Dorn's annoying.
Comments
Keldorn: Valygar, I have no wish to offend you, but I can remain silent no longer. You are a great warrior and a true defender of what is moral and right...
Valygar: Why should that offend me, Keldorn?
Keldorn: I think you jest, Valygar... though with you I can never be sure. Of course those words will not give offense. But these may: I have once again been pondering your atheistic beliefs.
Valygar: Keldorn, do not waste your time trying to convert this heathen. I respect what you stand for, but I have no need of a god to serve... even one as worthy as Helm.
Keldorn: So you say. But your actions say otherwise. You defend righteousness and justice as nobly as any knight of the Order. Perhaps you serve the will of Helm despite your protests to the contrary.
Valygar: I will take your words as a compliment, Keldorn... and not a high-handed condemnation of my own beliefs. If you find comfort believing I unwittingly serve Helm, I shall not object.
Keldorn: And since you take comfort denying you serve - thought your actions say otherwise - I shall no longer let it bother me, friend Valygar. I am glad we had this discussion.
Valygar: As am I, Keldorn. As am I.
Quoting from Faiths and Avatars, under "Druids", the first line goes:
"Druids are specialty priests who fulfill the needs of nature deities".
The major gods of nature (Silvanus, Chauntea, Mielikki and Eldath) all have druids as specialty priests. Silvanus himself is the god of druids. Mielikki is the goddess of rangers (who reports to Silvanus) and is worshipped by Drizzt and Montolio Debrouchee (Drizzt's mentor). Jaheira could be a worshipper of Silvanus since she swears by him (when she's cursed by Baron Ployer). Cernd, I'm not sure.
For me, the best I can do to RP Valygar's spell access is that he is sufficiently attuned to nature that even though he is not specifically worshipping any deity, one of the nature deities is granting him spells. This is not implausible, since deities are also known to masquerade as dead deities and grant spells as part of the act.
Backhanded compliment? If so perhaps valygar has more personality than I thought
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Valygar: Haer’Dalis! Must you insist on plucking away at that blasted instrument?
Haer’Dalis: I must keep it in tune, good sir, lest I strike a sour note with my listeners.
Valygar: Every time you open your mouth, you strike a sour note with me, bard.
Haer’Dalis: A thrust of wit from the dark hawk’s rapier! I had not thought it in you, dear Valygar. Have you been practicing your verbal exchanges with the trees? Alas, they do not strike back.
Valygar: Cease your barking, bard, and leave me alone.
Haer’Dalis: “Bark”? “Leave”? Yet more jests, building on my tree remark? Or just lucky puns, like wisdom tumbling from the lips of a fool?
Valygar: It took you long enough to grasp the root of my remarks.
Haer’Dalis: Oh mercy, great punsman, I beg thee! Your life of solitude has done nothing to dull the stinging points of your stabbing words. I shall retire to a safe distance and resume my plucking beyond your earshot.
Valygar: Thank you, Haer’Dalis. That is all I asked in the first place.
Once 3.5 came out, there was a small group of evil elves who had learned to receive druid/ranger magic from nature itself thanks to... a lich. (Yeah.) And I don't even want to know what's going on in 4th edition. They took away my favorite god, so I ignore them.
I started boycotting WotC ever since 3.5 came out. In all my campaigns, it will always be AD&D 2nd Ed, 1370/1371 DR. No way am I switching when many of my favorite characters (countries, deities, heroes, villains) were just killed off so unceremoniously.
Fourth edition, though, forget it. I could live with the rules changes, though I did like 3.5 better, but what they did to Forgotten Realms? I hated it. (They didn't treat Eberron much nicer, either.) I'm not going to go all dramatic 'ruined forever', but WotC is going to have to try very hard to get me to buy their fifth edition books, and unless the whole Spellplague and everything being destroyed is retconned, I'm probably never going to touch their Forgotten Realms again.
Precisely. Spellplague is one steaming pile of ****. It's a poorly-conceived plot device that attempts to account for all the changes they made. I wouldn't be surprised if it could even result in things as absurd as changes to menstrual cycles of realms women, frequency of bowel movements, and so on.
I lost interest from 3rd Ed onwards when they gave in to pressure to open up the rules. I'm not a fan of having new subraces, free switching among classes, etc. For all the restrictions of AD&D, IMO it was a mature system that tended to err on the side of caution by being restrictive. Breaking the rules were a matter of DM discretion. Opening the system up took away much discretionary power from the DM and put it in players hands, making it tougher for DMs to manage things. I hate that, but that's my preference.
I particularly hated the destruction of the game world. I liked Ravenloft (best campaign setting ever!), Lathander, the Seven Sisters, Halaster, and more. The new editions just wiped them all, though it also helped me save money... Money that I'd no longer spend on WotC ^_^
That said, it seems to me he is quite a rash person (low Wis?) and he doesn't seem to know how to treat a girl properly (from the way he talks to female Charname during his struggles over Saerk). He knows how to sweet-talk, but is too thin-skinned to be an enjoyable lover... it's like having a landmine for a boyfriend - you never know if something you say or do will offend him. I wonder if this should be interpreted as a reflection of himself - he feels he must do certain things in a certain way to win approval from people (his father, the Order) hence he will insist that female Charname do certain things in a certain way to win HIS approval.
I know of girls in RL who would kick his nuts.
But I agree, this only works with a group that has a lot of trust. Thankfully, my group has it, so limitations are boring to me. (Besides, I love psionics, and while 3.5 psionics are balanced, AD&D psionics fall inbetween: 'useless that no one would touch them' and 'totally overpowered crazy that everyone wants'.) I like allowing gnome druids and halfling paladins or whatever; I want my group to be able to play whatever they want to. If the players are having fun, it leads for more fun for me as GM, as they often create their own hooks to play with rather then just like 'my character goes and cuts the orc. the end.'.
(We're a pretty roleplay heavy group, because we started long, long, long ago on World of Darkness's first edition of Vampire the Masquerade. How the years fly by!)
I agree that Anomen would be an interesting character to play, and I might try to play him one day (my group is a rare one that has more gals then men, so me cross-playing doesn't raise any eyebrows). For some reason, though, my group tends to force me to GM if we're playing D&D. I get annoyed sometimes. I want to play, too!
Jaheira obviously has a long history with the character, typically being the first female who joins your party besides your sister, and anime rules state that the first woman the main character encounters is the one they end up with. Obviously there's a lot of respect for her for all the help she is in those early days of adventuring and her advice and council. In fact, my only grip with Jaheira's romance is that it does seem like she's being pushed on you at times, with her being there at the start of BG2 as well and Khalid conveniently killed off to make things less complicated.
Aerie we talked a lot about. She doesn't give up as much as the other characters do, since she literally nothing left that she can give up. But she's affectionate and wants to help as much as she can. Young, naive, and other than the circus she's still very much an alien in that world and has to experience so much culture shock on top of everything else. But then, the bhaalspawn is supposed to be quite young as well, and it wasn't that long ago he and Imoen were thrust into the world from Candlekeep and were equally bewildered. The imprisonment/torture and having your identity/soul stolen is other reason I think they might bond... but I still maintain the ToB portion of her romance was one of the most ill-conceived things throughout the games.
Viconia is also an alien of course, even though she's much older than anyone (I guess she must have been kicking around the Underdark since the time she ran away and Drizzt was born, only recently venturing up to the surface), an into while the bhaalspawn is still finding their footing as well. Plus, cleavage. If it wasn't for the mood swings and the fact that she's toward almost every other NPC, I might have seen her alignment change more often. I know the good characters aren't always nice to her, but I always feel like she plays up too much to her 'drow' persona, and if she was just a little nicer people wouldn't try to kill her so often.
And Anomen... well, there was only Anomen. Luckily I don't hate any characters, so it's okay for me. He's a 'lad', the way he talks about women and tries to cover up his insecurities by being macho. But that's just immaturity; most men grow out of that. Well, some do... one or two... maybe...
So let's talk about Dorn, Neera, Hexxet and Rasaad. How do they compare to the other romances, to you guys? Do any of them come across as needing therapy rather then a lover as the Bioware romances did?
Out of all the new romances, I've only done Neera's to completion. To me it didn't come off as needing therapy, rather than a lover.
As for bioware romances...I like Aerie's the most.
If I'm PC, I'd offer Dorn a full body massage with Oil of Poison Ivy :P
I just finished my first marathon run of BGEE/BG2EE with neutral/evil party and Dorn as a co-star of this un-romantic tragedy and meh. Beginnings were brilliant, especially in BGEE. I just loved his dialogues, no matter romance-themed or not, the whole idea for harsh, rough and undoubtedly wicked, but still wonderfully insightful guy with tons of issues and obsessions... thing is, Dorn doesn't develop, he un-develops. Him, his quests and relationship with charname become more and more epic and at the same time, shallow like a puddle of mud
Yeah, I just read about half the romance dialogues. He's pretty... one-dimensional -_-
I have done Rasaad's romance, and sure, he needs therapy about as much as the others, but his was a good storyline. He's capable of treating Charname respectfully, and shows a lot of empathy for all she's gone though. He makes a decision in the romance (I'm not gonna spoil it) that's a little bit soap-opera-bullcrap for the sake of plot drama, but it can work out okay. He and Charname seem to be friends as well as lovers, and I like that a lot.
The in-game description of Hexxat says she is "a mysterious thief serving an even more mysterious master". Maybe that's why she's saying nothing and deflecting the questions. You know, she's... mysterious. Yeah, mysterious. That's right.
XD
Earlier on, you said Dorn "undevelops". What do you mean by that? is it because he's needy, the romance dies effectively (no more exploration into the relationship), the romance degenerates into some lewd pseudo-porn-fanfic, or something else? My friend also complained about the romance and now simply chunks Dorn when he first meets him, but I didn't find out why Dorn's annoying.