Re: Patching. I do think the industry standards have shifted. People nowadays do expect games to be patched fairly soon after release. Of course, many will tell you that in the olden days games didn't need to be patched because they were more complete and less glitchy on release, but I'm not sure how much truth there is to that - I mean, I remember plenty of old games that were buggy as the second area of the Cloakwood forest back when they came out.
Really what I think changed is people's expectations for receiving fairly polished games in exchange for their money. Now we want games to come out idealistically in a playable state, then get patched in order to iron out the issues that might be still present. I don't think that's unrealistic, though. We did pay for a product based on our trust in the developer and I think the developer is being a smart business(wo)man when they reward our trust by giving us a reasonably polished product.
And if BG2:EE received no more updates, I'd honestly be disappointed. There are many areas of that game that still require some love and care. Fortunately, Dee and other official voices have made it very clear that the BG2:EE patching is not yet done and there will be one or more further patches down the road. So I'm very much looking forward to that.
On the other hand, I have never owned an Apple computer so I trust your assessment that the original BG was unavailable on newer Mac versions.
So what. Many modern games aren't even available for the Mac, so why should the original BG games be any different? People just don't use Macs for games overall. And I believe there's a PC emulator that works just fine with them.
You can use emulators, run them with other type of hacks or just make a parallel install of Windows.
Ah, the joy of patches. It is true, in The Goode Olde Dayes games often shipped to a higher quality and did not meet patching. You certainly would not have run into issues like the very first quest in Candlekeep failing to fire, or other significant issues on the main quest line. On the other hand, games were also significantly smaller, so easier to QA as a whole. A large slice of the target market would be games consoles, where there really was no ability to patch after release. PC games were no different, until the internet became used widely enough to expect that a patch release might actually be found and installed by customers, and was very much treated as a bonus, a sign of excellent customer support, that a patch might even exist. And the counter-examples were really bad. I remember buying a space simulator game from Sierra where, on opening the box, I found a note stating that they simply ran out of time to put the competing AI faction into the game, but if the game sells really well they will actually finish it, and make the game as advertised on the box available to registered customers. Until then, enjoy your game with no-one to play against (before the days of multi-player, no computer opponent). That was the last game I ever bought from Sierra. Similarly another game that had buggy DRM, so instead of playing my game, it turned off the CD drive, so that I would have to reboot the PC simply to eject the disk. They acknowledged this was a known bug, but as I was foolish enough to buy in the UK where I lived, that was a clear sign that I was probably a pirate and so not eligible for customer support - unless I chose to emigrate to the USA. If anyone cares to think back, they will have their own horror stories of (lack of) support from The Goode Olde Dayes that make it clear BeamDog is (mostly) doing a good job. Their problem is that expectations from top franchises in the intervening years have been raised significantly, and they seem to have a deployment/distribution problem - there is no benefit of all the good work if the patch is never released (says a bitter Mac customer)
As for multi-platform gaming - that has been the industry norm for almost as long as I can remember. Not so much in the early 80s with the first generation of home computer, but they the time to hit the Atari/Amiga years onwards, multi platform was expected of any successful title (unless owned by the platform vendor like Nintendo/Sega). There was a golden era of PC gaming where the PC had advantages (hard disk/memory/GPU) that could not be emulated by a console, but those days are long gone. Indeed, that was a large factor in my being able to finally leave my PC behind, which remains only for playing Mass Effect and NWN games, and the occasional trip to Alpha Centauri...
@Sixheadeddog I'm of the opinion that whoever can buy and install a game can also download and install a mod - there is no difference in skillset required. Of course, some lack the patience to learn about what mods a game has available, but I personally don't regard that as a lack of availability.
On the other hand, I have never owned an Apple computer so I trust your assessment that the original BG was unavailable on newer Mac versions.
This is only true at a very minimal level. Modding the original Baldur's Gate versions can range from running a couple of WeiDU files to pulling your hair out in frustration while browsing the BWP forums on Spellhold Studios wondering what the hell you did wrong this time. Some mods aren't compatible with other mods... some mods have to be installed in a certain order... some mods just plain shouldn't be used at all unless you are willing to subject yourself to an unstable game experience. It's not quite as bad as modding your average Bethesda game, but it still isn't for everyone.
On the other hand, I have never owned an Apple computer so I trust your assessment that the original BG was unavailable on newer Mac versions.
So what. Many modern games aren't even available for the Mac, so why should the original BG games be any different? People just don't use Macs for games overall. And I believe there's a PC emulator that works just fine with them.
You can use emulators, run them with other type of hacks or just make a parallel install of Windows.
... Or, much much easier, you can give your full-throated support to the developers who make Mac-native games. Which is what I, and most others, prefer.
The mod made by Pecca to bring the BG2EE GUI into BGEE reveals that the red diamond button capability is present in the BGEE executable and works. The mod shows is that it is only a matter of updating some interface files to get this ability in the game.
Unless this capability is still unstable in BGEE, will the BGEE interface be modified to include the red diamond button before the patch is released?
On the other hand, I have never owned an Apple computer so I trust your assessment that the original BG was unavailable on newer Mac versions.
So what. Many modern games aren't even available for the Mac, so why should the original BG games be any different? People just don't use Macs for games overall. And I believe there's a PC emulator that works just fine with them.
I've always found that those versions just don't work well in relatively recent mac versions. In any case its not as if support for mac is new for the game series. So I don't see what the big deal is with supporting macs.
I realize I am in the vast minority here, but can you *please* bring back the larger fonts that were in phase 1 of this beta (at the very least make it an .ini option)? It really did make playing the game much easier for me.
The mod made by Pecca to bring the BG2EE GUI into BGEE reveals that the red diamond button capability is present in the BGEE executable and works. The mod shows is that it is only a matter of updating some interface files to get this ability in the game.
Unless this capability is still unstable in BGEE, will the BGEE interface be modified to include the red diamond button before the patch is released?
This. With map after map containing groups of low-hitdice monsters that each drop 7g or a turquoise gem, this function is much more useful for BG1 than it is for BG2.
As far as I can see, it's literally five-minute work, and I didn't have any problems with it so far (but of course it's possible, that there can be some).
I wouldn't mind if they implemented the quick loot feature in BG1:EE, but at the same time they should also fix it in multiplayer where it still doesn't update ground stacks between the host and the clients and therefore can very easily duplicate items without the player's knowledge.
Basically, if you're a client, you shouldn't use this feature otherwise you'll almost certainly duplicate items.
Edit: also, it messes up the item's flags and therefore causes items to not stack in container bags correctly. That should also be fixed asap.
I would be pretty disappointed if quick loot was left out of a patch released ~6 months after the feature was first introduced. As others have said, it'd actually prove more useful in the first game.
Bottom line concluded from the last few posts: Beamdog, you still have a lot of polishing work to do, especially on BG2:EE. I, for one, would much prefer to see BG2:EE polished into the gem that it should be before any other work is done, especially on any new projects.
And yes, the quick loot button should be in BG1:EE. Why on earth wouldn't it be? Also, all of the new portraits and soundsets should be available in both BG1:EE and BG2:EE for the PC. It still baffles me that you released BG2:EE for the PC without the BG1:EE portraits and soundsets.
On the other hand, I have never owned an Apple computer so I trust your assessment that the original BG was unavailable on newer Mac versions.
So what. Many modern games aren't even available for the Mac, so why should the original BG games be any different? People just don't use Macs for games overall. And I believe there's a PC emulator that works just fine with them.
You can use emulators, run them with other type of hacks or just make a parallel install of Windows.
It is easy to run BG/BG2 on the Mac, because BG/BG2 are not graphically-demanding games. If you are talking about games like Crysis, etc. then that is a different story.
My main machine is a Macbook Air from 3 years ago, with Nvidia graphics. In my Windows virtual machine, I have both BG and BG2 installed. On OSX, I have both BG and BG2 installed via Crossover for Mac. To round it off, I have both BGEE and BG2EE. I play BG on Crossover because I am opposed to using the BG2 engine for BG, but I do play BG2EE. All other copies of BG/BG2 are for testing and debugging purposes ^_^
Regarding patching, BGEE nearly killed my game in Chapter 5 and I was only able to resolve it after referencing BG vanilla and patching the game. I doubt I will uninstall any of my installations anytime soon, so it would be great if Beamdog released more patches. I do not expect Beamdog to patch BGEE/BG2EE forever, but I need to know where the official patching ends so I can take over from there.
Let's try to avoid alienating people based on their choice of gaming platform.
Please Dee, When Cloud saves Will be implemented?. It was one of the main features announced with BG:EE and is not implemented yet. I bought BG:EE and BG2:EE for iPad and Mac with the hope of play my games in both devices, without the need of using 3rd party software and a computer for do it. Pretty please with sugar on top, don't forget it, don't forget us.
Is it possible to EDIT the QUEST PORTION of the JOURNAL? For a completionist such as myself, it bugs me EVERYTIME, when a bad journal entry refuses to disappear. It ALWAYS feels like there is something left over undone. Why can't we edit journals like we did BACK IN CLASSIC BG II? (I bought both the classic version and the EE version, and I am not very pleased with the update) I suppose it also saves time this way, and both for me to mend my saved games without the console, and for the DEVs, who would rather fix every single journal entry. Any links to a mod or fix is appreciated...
Despite the irony, it has been a really long time after last big patch. NPC voices don't work properly in BGEE, as I discussed several times here on the forum and due to the last patch, czech translation is no longer compatible with BG2EE. So is it too much to ask for at least an update of number of checked quests?
#1: Problems with the default male and female soundset
In the beta, the two default soundsets (male and female) do not work anymore. The sounds play fine when listening to them during character creation or on the Customize Character screen, but when the default soundset is chosen, the character simply does not emit those sounds in-game. Both the male and the female soundset appear to be mute when they are selected.
Furthermore, if the default male or female soundset is chosen, the soundset's subtitles are always displayed in the combat log, even if subtitles are disabled (Options -> Sound -> Character Sounds -> Subtitles).
The bug is present in the beta, but not in BG:EE v1.2.0, so it must have been introduced by one of the beta changes.
Interestingly, if you choose the default soundset in v1.2.0, save the game, and then load that savegame in the beta, the soundset initially works. Only when you select the default soundset anew in the beta, it becomes mute. If you create a new character in the beta, the default soundset is mute from the beginning.
#2: Green highlighting of locked containers stacks with blue overlay
I reported this bug once before, a couple of weeks ago, but I'm not sure whether it was picked up because it is still present after the recent update to v1.3.2042. If the bug is on the to-do list, you can ignore this report; it's only meant as a reminder.
In the beta, the green highlighting of locked containers for thieves stacks with the default blue highlighting of containers. This makes it hard to distinguish the two effects.
The bug is present in the beta, but not in BG:EE v1.2.0, so it must have been introduced by one of the beta changes. Screenshots:
Hi, Dee and co. I am a long time lurker, first time poster. I love me some BGEE and BG2EE. About three weeks ago I finished my first complete play through of the EE versions (after many dozens of old school BG play throughs years ago). A dream come true! Thank you.
BUT I have been waiting with baited breath for the next BGEE patch and am paralyzed -- I don't want to start a new run through prematurely, but I also don't want to commit to any other game either (although I am toying with a 3rd run through of the mass effect series). I know you are all hard at work, but this is a selfish question -- do you have a rough estimate as to when we can expect the patch to be released? I know things change -- I am not holding anyone to anything. But a rough estimate will help me decide to hold on a bit longer or jump into something else and come back here in a few months. Something along the lines of: any day now, in a couple weeks, maybe three months. I take my gaming seriously and feel like I am in limbo waiting to start my next BGEE-a-thon and it is killing me.
I am not complaining or criticizing, mind you -- I love the work you all are doing. I am just asking for information so I can figure out whether to hold on a bit, or turn elsewhere temporarily and come back after a time.
@SweetMagooMagoodle As a rule we don't try not to give timelines because you never know when a major game-crashing issue is going to come up (in the case of Android, we discovered one just hours before release and barely fixed it before the game went on sale; another one was discovered the next morning).
So I couldn't give you an estimate with any real precision. I can tell you that we've got less than twenty outstanding issues that we're hoping to get done for this patch, and we're very close to an update to the beta so that people can see it. So if you're thinking about setting the game aside, you may want to stick around; the patch has over 200 fixes and features, so it's definitely worth waiting for.
Thanks -- I figured as much but thought it worth a try. By the way, by "setting the game aside" I just meant I am having withdrawal and need to play something -- and if I start something new it will suck me in for a few months before I can return. I just hate sitting idle in the two hours each day after my child goes to bed before I pack it in. I can only replay the black pits so many times. I suppose I can finish Middlemarch or re-read GOT. : )
Have patience and lets keep hoping for more updates and maybe even some DLC - new content! In the meanwhile, it is not the only game in the world.
While it is true that the developers of BGEE are not the most communicating in the industry, we must not forget what type of a game this is. It is not a mainstream giant with dozens of developers. We are very lucky that our beloved OLD game series Baldur's Gate got revived and not only that, it is still being actively developed and improved. It wasn't just hastily repackaged to make money. The EE content especially in BG2 is great. 99% of old classic games get no treatment like this, they get no treatment at all to be precise and u're lucky if you manage to run them on current systems.
I surely hope we will see more updates for BG (2) and that this kind of RPG gets more attention.
Exerimenting with new platforms is very daring and if it helps keep this type of game alive - good!
Comments
Really what I think changed is people's expectations for receiving fairly polished games in exchange for their money. Now we want games to come out idealistically in a playable state, then get patched in order to iron out the issues that might be still present. I don't think that's unrealistic, though. We did pay for a product based on our trust in the developer and I think the developer is being a smart business(wo)man when they reward our trust by giving us a reasonably polished product.
And if BG2:EE received no more updates, I'd honestly be disappointed. There are many areas of that game that still require some love and care. Fortunately, Dee and other official voices have made it very clear that the BG2:EE patching is not yet done and there will be one or more further patches down the road. So I'm very much looking forward to that.
As for multi-platform gaming - that has been the industry norm for almost as long as I can remember. Not so much in the early 80s with the first generation of home computer, but they the time to hit the Atari/Amiga years onwards, multi platform was expected of any successful title (unless owned by the platform vendor like Nintendo/Sega). There was a golden era of PC gaming where the PC had advantages (hard disk/memory/GPU) that could not be emulated by a console, but those days are long gone. Indeed, that was a large factor in my being able to finally leave my PC behind, which remains only for playing Mass Effect and NWN games, and the occasional trip to Alpha Centauri...
Unless this capability is still unstable in BGEE, will the BGEE interface be modified to include the red diamond button before the patch is released?
So hopefully they will do something like this for PC/Mac/Ipad.
Basically, if you're a client, you shouldn't use this feature otherwise you'll almost certainly duplicate items.
Edit: also, it messes up the item's flags and therefore causes items to not stack in container bags correctly. That should also be fixed asap.
And yes, the quick loot button should be in BG1:EE. Why on earth wouldn't it be? Also, all of the new portraits and soundsets should be available in both BG1:EE and BG2:EE for the PC. It still baffles me that you released BG2:EE for the PC without the BG1:EE portraits and soundsets.
My main machine is a Macbook Air from 3 years ago, with Nvidia graphics. In my Windows virtual machine, I have both BG and BG2 installed. On OSX, I have both BG and BG2 installed via Crossover for Mac. To round it off, I have both BGEE and BG2EE. I play BG on Crossover because I am opposed to using the BG2 engine for BG, but I do play BG2EE. All other copies of BG/BG2 are for testing and debugging purposes ^_^
Regarding patching, BGEE nearly killed my game in Chapter 5 and I was only able to resolve it after referencing BG vanilla and patching the game. I doubt I will uninstall any of my installations anytime soon, so it would be great if Beamdog released more patches. I do not expect Beamdog to patch BGEE/BG2EE forever, but I need to know where the official patching ends so I can take over from there.
Thank you
What about now?
What about now?
What about now?
What about now?
Dee, you sure are patient. I've run out of things to say.
Bug reports
#1: Problems with the default male and female soundset
In the beta, the two default soundsets (male and female) do not work anymore. The sounds play fine when listening to them during character creation or on the Customize Character screen, but when the default soundset is chosen, the character simply does not emit those sounds in-game. Both the male and the female soundset appear to be mute when they are selected.Furthermore, if the default male or female soundset is chosen, the soundset's subtitles are always displayed in the combat log, even if subtitles are disabled (Options -> Sound -> Character Sounds -> Subtitles).
The bug is present in the beta, but not in BG:EE v1.2.0, so it must have been introduced by one of the beta changes.
Interestingly, if you choose the default soundset in v1.2.0, save the game, and then load that savegame in the beta, the soundset initially works. Only when you select the default soundset anew in the beta, it becomes mute. If you create a new character in the beta, the default soundset is mute from the beginning.
#2: Green highlighting of locked containers stacks with blue overlay
I reported this bug once before, a couple of weeks ago, but I'm not sure whether it was picked up because it is still present after the recent update to v1.3.2042. If the bug is on the to-do list, you can ignore this report; it's only meant as a reminder.In the beta, the green highlighting of locked containers for thieves stacks with the default blue highlighting of containers. This makes it hard to distinguish the two effects.
The bug is present in the beta, but not in BG:EE v1.2.0, so it must have been introduced by one of the beta changes. Screenshots:
v1.2.0
v1.3.2042
BUT I have been waiting with baited breath for the next BGEE patch and am paralyzed -- I don't want to start a new run through prematurely, but I also don't want to commit to any other game either (although I am toying with a 3rd run through of the mass effect series). I know you are all hard at work, but this is a selfish question -- do you have a rough estimate as to when we can expect the patch to be released? I know things change -- I am not holding anyone to anything. But a rough estimate will help me decide to hold on a bit longer or jump into something else and come back here in a few months. Something along the lines of: any day now, in a couple weeks, maybe three months. I take my gaming seriously and feel like I am in limbo waiting to start my next BGEE-a-thon and it is killing me.
I am not complaining or criticizing, mind you -- I love the work you all are doing. I am just asking for information so I can figure out whether to hold on a bit, or turn elsewhere temporarily and come back after a time.
Many thanks.
As a rule we don't try not to give timelines because you never know when a major game-crashing issue is going to come up (in the case of Android, we discovered one just hours before release and barely fixed it before the game went on sale; another one was discovered the next morning).
So I couldn't give you an estimate with any real precision. I can tell you that we've got less than twenty outstanding issues that we're hoping to get done for this patch, and we're very close to an update to the beta so that people can see it. So if you're thinking about setting the game aside, you may want to stick around; the patch has over 200 fixes and features, so it's definitely worth waiting for.
While it is true that the developers of BGEE are not the most communicating in the industry, we must not forget what type of a game this is. It is not a mainstream giant with dozens of developers. We are very lucky that our beloved OLD game series Baldur's Gate got revived and not only that, it is still being actively developed and improved. It wasn't just hastily repackaged to make money. The EE content especially in BG2 is great. 99% of old classic games get no treatment like this, they get no treatment at all to be precise and u're lucky if you manage to run them on current systems.
I surely hope we will see more updates for BG (2) and that this kind of RPG gets more attention.
Exerimenting with new platforms is very daring and if it helps keep this type of game alive - good!