If patches came every single month, then people will complain about that too, because they have to install all their mods again or because they don't like downloading the patch every so few time. People will always complain about something, like I am complaining now because they are going to fix the time between random spawns (which was broken in 1.2 IIRC), making the game more immersive, but less challenging.
I disagree. I don't think this is a case of complainas gunna complain or even 'sometimes people need to vent'. Those sort of statements deflect criticism and, again, sometimes your skin can be too thick. Beamdog set the standard for itself -- it was going to be like the early bioware and it would keep its ear to the ground -- and I don't think it has met its own standards. 6+ months for a patch, no date on an expansion, no DLC just isn't good.
I don't mean this a criticism of anyone's work ethic. My guess -- they have too few hands trying to do too much work.
I guess my question for the Devs would be -- do you hope to improve or does your current performance seem good enough?
We're still waiting on a patch where the major issue of contention was window sizes, while BG2:EE is currently in a borderline-unplayable state.
Calling BG2:EE "borderline-unplayable" is a ridiculous exaggeration. It is perfectly playable, significantly more so than most newly-released games. I've played through it with minimal problems. So have many, many others.
That is not to say it does not have bugs, or that they shouldn't be fixed, or that it wouldn't be helpful to reexamine how the patching works to avoid such long gaps. But engaging in ill-tempered hyperbole does not help your argument.
Also, for the people complaining that Beamdog devotes a significant portion of their time to developing new things such as Android ports and DLC rather than just working on patches... those things have the very valuable ancillary benefit of actually making money, allowing the developers to be paid while they work on wonderful things like making patches that do not provide any significant direct income.
None of that is to say that people can't expect better. I've been waiting to do a good-aligned runthrough of BG2 since its release since I've decided I'd wait for the romance flags to get properly patched so I can continue my BG1 romance more smoothly, and that's not even coming in the next patch but the one thereafter. That's probably minimum a year away, and yeah, that kinda sucks and I hope BD is thinking of reexamining how they do this after the current patch cycle so the gaps aren't so large.
But it does not hurt to have some empathy and politeness. BD cannot do everything at once, and they do have to make money to stay in business. They are not withholding a patch to spite me or anyone else on the forum, and they are not delaying it because they don't care about the game. They allow comments on these forums that are vitriolic enough to get the posters banned from nearly any other company forum, and more than a few times they've even responded politely and professionally to those sorts of posts. Is it too much to ask that people make their concerns and frustrations known without flying off the handle and insulting them? I'm willing to bet that trying to make the dev team feel bad about themselves doesn't actually make a patch arrive any faster.
@Ayiekie: I can speak only to my own experiences - the last straw for me was having to reload four times in a single playthrough due to looping dialogues and cutscenes that wouldn't start. That, to me, made it borderline-unplayable: I couldn't continue in that state. (The fact that the majority of bugs seem to be concentrated around the new content is particularly problematic, given that it was a major reason Beamdog could set the EEs at at over twice the originals' asking price.)
Obviously, some people are luckier than others when it comes to triggering bugs, and tolerance for those bugs (and the constant reloading they require) varies. But for me, speaking purely from what I've seen with my own two eyes, BG2:EE had more problems than the modded-up original I played two years ago. (And, in fact, the community has already started putting out hotfixes and fixpacks of their own, always a sign that faith in "official support" is wavering.) I find that unacceptable.
I'd also like to remind you that the discourse on this forum started with precisely the empathy and politeness you mentioned - if, after 18 months, the tone has gone sour, it's because Beamdog has repeatedly failed to address its customers' needs. Not to spite us, not because they don't care - these are, as @killerrabbit pointed out, just ways of deflecting criticism. They're simply proving to be remarkably inefficient and ill-organized, and it's showing, and it's frustrating. That's all.
If patches came every single month, then people will complain about that too, because they have to install all their mods again or because they don't like downloading the patch every so few time.
Yep, especially considering that starting from version 1.2, patching your game will literally nuke the main game folder. After all, you may never know how dangerous files like ReadMe.txt can be
People will always complain about something, like I am complaining now because they are going to fix the time between random spawns (which was broken in 1.2 IIRC), making the game more immersive, but less challenging.
@CrevsDaak are you saying that the next patch will make the already weak spawning system even weaker ? If this is the case, I will just keep playing Tutu and the original BG2.
If patches came every single month, then people will complain about that too, because they have to install all their mods again or because they don't like downloading the patch every so few time.
Yep, especially considering that starting from version 1.2, patching your game will literally nuke the main game folder. After all, you may never know how dangerous files like ReadMe.txt can be
Haha! Yeah, I won't even download the patches if there isn't something I'm not really interested in (if they came every single month).
People will always complain about something, like I am complaining now because they are going to fix the time between random spawns (which was broken in 1.2 IIRC), making the game more immersive, but less challenging.
@CrevsDaak are you saying that the next patch will make the already weak spawning system even weaker ? If this is the case, I will just keep playing Tutu and the original BG2.
Not weaker (well, somehow not weaker), just fixing the time between spawns, because in 1.2 it's none, so if you ran in circles in an area, you'll spawn lots of enemies. Still I like this even if it breaks immersion.
Maybe I have lower standards than other people here. But I don't think Beamdog are 'remarkably ineffifient and ill-organized'.
What they have done is allow me to revisit a great series, an opportunity I otherwise wouln't have had (as I am technologically illiterate and have no desire to start down the path of MODS etc). And yes I have had to pay for this opportunity, but not much in my view, and I would have been happy to pay more. And yes there have been problems along the way, but without their efforts and this opportunity I wouldn't have been playing either game. AT ALL.
So yes, maybe I have lower standards. But I can't imagine I am alone in my views. So when people make sweeping generalisations about Beamdog and their labours, you don't speak for everyone. Certainly not me anyway!
without their efforts and this opportunity I wouldn't have been playing either game. AT ALL.!
This. This so much!
I can certainly understand people's frustration, but if a game aggravates me that much; I just go play something else (for example right now it's Might and Magic 7) until the patch/content is released.
without their efforts and this opportunity I wouldn't have been playing either game. AT ALL.!
This. This so much!
I can certainly understand people's frustration, but if a game aggravates me that much; I just go play something else (for example right now it's Might and Magic 7) until the patch/content is released.
without their efforts and this opportunity I wouldn't have been playing either game. AT ALL.!
This. This so much!
I can certainly understand people's frustration, but if a game aggravates me that much; I just go play something else (for example right now it's Might and Magic 7) until the patch/content is released.
The fact that you suggested the idea of playing another game tells me that you do NOT understand people's frustration. Imagine going to Burger King and ordering a burger. You pay for the food and wait and then you receive it only to find that the buns have mold all over them and it is missing cheese. When you notify the person at the front, he tells you that it'll take several hours, maybe days, to get a new bun and cheese. You argue that you paid for a cheeseburger and would like it to be a complete cheeseburger and in the middle of your frustration, the guy in the line behind you taps you on the shoulder and says, "I can certainly understand people's frustration, but if a cheeseburger aggravates me that much; I just go order something else (for example right now it's chicken tenders) until the new bun/cheese is released."
What if we used that reasoning for everything?
"I can certainly understand people's frustration, but if a new car aggravates me that much; I just go drive something else (for example right now it's a Corvette) until the new engine is released."
"I can certainly understand people's frustration, but if a job aggravates me that much; I just go work somewhere else (for example right now it's Burger King) until the new boss is hired."
"I can certainly understand people's frustration, but if a wife aggravates me that much; I just go find someone else (for example right now it's Miranda, the maid) until the new attitude is released."
Is Beamdog awesome for having brought these games forward with enhancements? Absolutely! Is it incredible that they have more things in the works for additional content? No doubt! But don't forget, they didn't do this for you because they like the way you comb your hair. They charged you money for this product and you paid them for it. You shouldn't have to go play something else.
While I can understand the people's frustration, I thinkt there should be a line that shouldn't be crossed. I myself am impatient and I'm pretty easy to frustrate over something (I work on that, thought), but even I know that acting like child is not going to make the patch came out any faster. That being said, I am not impatient or frustrated because of recent patch. I happen to wait for one particular feature for over 1,5 years and I still refuse to take actions that would hurt my dignity because of it. Can you guys still enjoy the game to the fullest (or almost to the fullest because of some bugs) potential? Good for you, because I currently cannot. Point is: calm down people, and let the devs do their jobs, because some delays aren't worth your frustration. It's not the end of the world.
I don't know how many of you people were there before BG:EE was released, but anyone remember how much pain and time it took devs to get promotional material or new features throught approvals from their [Overhaul's] partners? What if the same thing is for this patch? Or any other patch for that matter?
I don't think the only problem with slow patching is that we need to wait more for the next patch. What worries me more is how long we have until developing these games is no longer financially beneficial to Beamdog. There is obviously less and less people being devoted to support these games, and I'd hate it if one of the games would be permanently stuck on a version that is full of bugs.
I'd still very much like new content to be released in the form of DLC or whatever. I hope that the noticeably decreasing activity on the part of the devs is due to them working on creating more content for the Enhanced Editions. I wish I had something more substantial to go for, but since all we get from them is silence, blind hope that something good will happen is the only thing I have at the moment.
tl;dr - analogies suck, but this is my best attempt. This is a rant at the forum, not at BeamDog!
It is an old rant, but I will try to put it in perspective. Imagine a simple clerical error is all that stands between me and a working version of a product I have invested a great deal of myself and my time into.
For example, imagine I bought something like the Insantity workout program, a series of DVDs that give me a fitness program that evolves every day, leading me up to great results after 30/60 days. Retails closer to the BG series than a new car Now imagine I have committed to and completed the introductory video series, and am signing up for the second an final series which has the real pay-off and gives me the fit and healthy body I always wanted. Then imagine there is some crazy flaw that means at some random point in that program, the whole thing resets and I go back to day 1, and simply have to start my workout program again. There is no way to skip and catch up to where I was. Finally, imagine that the Insanity company recognize this and quickly issue a fix in the week it was released - that seems like good customer service, addressing an important issue promptly. My only problem is that I bought the videos from my local gym chain (via a partner program) rather than directly from Insanity. I still don't have the fix. I also find that all the other partner gym chains have the fix, but mine, and there is no news to explain why my patch is shipping late. Still, I know the patch is out and shipping, so it is only a matter of time. I check in with my gym with high expectations every day, only to be disappointed each time. I check every day for three months, with raised/dashed hopes each time. Finally, after those three months, an Insanity employee visiting the support forums finally mentions that it looks like the clerk responsible for updating the gym partners simply forgot to send the update to our partner, but don't worry, they won't make that same mistake when the next patch arrives, giving lots of new exercises. This is the first time anyone from Insanity even acknowledge that we do not already have the patch, despite repeated prompts - in the meantime, some folks on the support boards are keen to point out that if they do the exercise every day, they get the great results expected, the product is great, so it is worth persevering because I might get lucky and make it to the end of the program without a reset. It is now another three months later again, and there is still no hint of simply filing the paperwork with my gym, nor any sign of the new improved update for everyone as they are still tweaking the previous workout series where mostly everyone is already happy. I should probably expect to sit on my videos for another 3-6 months before I can reliably complete the workout, assuming they do file paperwork on the next update, and no strangely damaging exercises are accidentally introduced. At this point the story is six month old, and I feel like it is sour grapes bringing it up in the forum again, as clearly nothing is changing - meanwhile I am not worried about losing the cost of the program (I am lucky that I can afford that) the problem is that I cannot satisfy my raised expectations of an effective workout - the dream they sold and everyone else is enjoying, and that I have already invested significant effort of my own into achieving - and there is nowhere else I can turn to meet those expectations either. All because I bought from the only (officially supported) wrong source.
(Of course there is another large group of potential customers at the "And 'Roids!" gym that feel they have been promised the workout, but are not able to buy it at all. While waiting for my clerical error to clear up, the whole company focus has been on making the basic workout available to this new chain, which demands lots of special tweaks in how the exercises are presented. Meeting long held expectation is good, but I don't understand why it interferes with correcting a simple clerical error.)
This is the world of the Mac customer. We are waiting for an *existing* patch that fixes a serious game-reset bug, sufficiently serious that many are simply waiting for the patch before playing, and after six months the only explanation we have is 'we forgot' eventually followed by 'but we have not forgotten about you', but no sign of a patch, nor suggestion that our patch is late because it needed extra work (it is, after all, already available for Mac if I bought direct from BeamDog). No explanation other than a simple clerical error that is not being corrected.
I am not ranting (this time!) because I am annoyed at BeamDog, I have made my peace and am settling in for the long wait, but I do get upset when other folks on the forum tell me that I should be happy and that this is normal or reasonable, or that simply being patient will fix the problem. What is a reasonable delay for fixing a clerical error before we admit patience alone will probably not fix it? How many months is it reasonable to ignore those reports of a missing patch before the customer is ignored and forgotten rather than merely at the back of an orderly queue?
Sadly, we are not ranting at the people who have the power to fix our problem, and we know this, but that whole feeling of powerlessness in the situation is what causes us to vent - a genuine thanks to BeamDog for giving us a forum to vent in! However dark it seems, at least this is not the world of EA!!!
without their efforts and this opportunity I wouldn't have been playing either game. AT ALL.
I find this statement a bit melodramatic, considering how many people have been playing these games for years, long before Beamdog/Overhaul even existed, and that the GOG version of these games still works extremely well on modern hardware (both Windows and Mac).
I sense some sort of, i don't know, hostility in your post. I'm not sure why I suggested that doing something else while waiting instead of venting on the forums is insulting, but to each their own.
Allow me to give you the information of my wonderful teenage years. For about 6 years throughout high school and college, I worked at a Subway. There are multiple occasions when something that we order (bread, veggies, meat, cups, pop, anything else) wouldn't come in. So eventually we'd run out of something. We'll use tomatoes as an example What do you do to customers that want tomatoes? I can't offer them a discount or go to a store and buy some tomatoes. I can get fired for both of those. It's beyond my ability to help this customer because I can't give them what they want and not risk my job.
So what do I do? For six years all I could do is apologize and offer them something else or tell them to wait a week for shipment. So to them I was a bad employee, but I never once got threatened to lose my job. Sometimes we'd run out of bread. I'm sure you're asking yourself 'How the #$@% does a Subway run out of bread!?!?!?' Well, it happens. I can't offer an explanation and I wouldn't if I could. I can't, and won't, get mad about something that is beyond my control. Some things, yes, are worth getting frustrated about. A patch for a game? I'm sure you got plenty more as filler; and if not I recommend BG2 with mods cause to most people on this forum, it's a better product and it's (somewhat) free.
So when I go to a Burger King and get my moldy bread or they inform me they're out of something. I order something else (possibly somewhere else) or get a refund.
So if you want some more advice before you twist and spin my words to make me sound like a jackass, get a refund or buy/play a different game if a product or service frustrates you.
without their efforts and this opportunity I wouldn't have been playing either game. AT ALL.
I find this statement a bit melodramatic, considering how many people have been playing these games for years, long before Beamdog/Overhaul even existed, and that the GOG version of these games still works extremely well on modern hardware (both Windows and Mac).
Melodramtic? Me? Never, I say, with a swirl of my cape and a whoosh as I storm from the room!
It happens to be my own experience, although I do of course fully accept there were lots of opportunities for me to get the game working over that period. I could have spent time and effort (maybe alot, maybe not so much) and been enjoying the series for the last several years. But I didn't - and yes, now I am grateful for the chance to buy the game and press a button and be playing it. Am I alone in feeling this way? Maybe. Maybe not.
So when people make sweeping generalisations about the project or the company behind it, it's important for me to pipe up and say, actually, you don't speak for me.
And with that I give an exagerated flick of my long flowing locks and an oversize shrug made to be seen from space, followed by a curt nod, and exit stage left.
I'm not frustrated with you. You took that wrong. I just think it's ridiculous for anyone to suggest I go do something else when I have paid for a service. I understand that frequently, tone is hard to grasp and understand over a text conversation, so I would like to point out that I am not hostile toward you in any way, friend.
I sense some sort of, i don't know, hostility in your post. I'm not sure why I suggested that doing something else while waiting instead of venting on the forums is insulting, but to each their own.
Again, it's insulting because you're recommending people stop venting their frustration when in reality, they shouldn't have to. I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to be upset and it is absurd to suggest their silence. Anyone remember Black Mesa Source? Now there's a group of people who I felt needed to stop complaining and suck it up. Why? Because Black Mesa Source was completely 100% free. You don't have to pay anything for it, so stop whining. BG:EE, however, was not free, and it is frustrating to continuously be waiting for patches and fixes that are needed to make the game function.
Allow me to give you the information of my wonderful teenage years. For about 6 years throughout high school and college, I worked at a Subway. There are multiple occasions when something that we order (bread, veggies, meat, cups, pop, anything else) wouldn't come in. So eventually we'd run out of something. We'll use tomatoes as an example What do you do to customers that want tomatoes? I can't offer them a discount or go to a store and buy some tomatoes. I can get fired for both of those. It's beyond my ability to help this customer because I can't give them what they want and not risk my job.
So what do I do? For six years all I could do is apologize and offer them something else or tell them to wait a week for shipment. So to them I was a bad employee, but I never once got threatened to lose my job. Sometimes we'd run out of bread. I'm sure you're asking yourself 'How the #$@% does a Subway run out of bread!?!?!?' Well, it happens. I can't offer an explanation and I wouldn't if I could. I can't, and won't, get mad about something that is beyond my control. Some things, yes, are worth getting frustrated about. A patch for a game? I'm sure you got plenty more as filler; and if not I recommend BG2 with mods cause to most people on this forum, it's a better product and it's (somewhat) free.
And here's the problem with your analogy. At Subway, you tell the customer right away, "Hey brah, we've got no tomatoes! If you want tomatoes, we can't serve you today!"
In our situation, there was no warning and no heads up. We were sold a functional game that was everything BG was and more. A game with countless enhancements and features for us to be excited about. And we paid for it. A more proper analogy for you would be this:
"There are multiple occasions when something that we order (bread, veggies, meat, cups, pop, anything else) wouldn't come in. So eventually we'd run out of something. We'll use tomatoes as an example What do you do to customers that want tomatoes? I can't offer them a discount or go to a store and buy some tomatoes. I can get fired for both of those. It's beyond my ability to help this customer because I can't give them what they want and not risk my job.
So what do I do? I make them their sandwich anyway with no warning that we don't have tomatoes, then I allow other customers to tell them they're out of line when they complain that their sandwich is missing one of the items they asked for. Not only did I fail to tell them I wasn't going to include tomatoes on their sandwich before selling it to them, but I encourage other customers to tell them that if they're unhappy, they can just go to another restaurant. If that doesn't please them, I recommend they go get a sandwich across the street instead because it's cheaper. Lastly, I ignore and disregard all negative comment cards that anyone chooses to fill out because of my service. After all, they wouldn't even have a sandwich if I didn't make it for them."
So when I go to a Burger King and get my moldy bread or they inform me they're out of something. I order something else (possibly somewhere else) or get a refund.
And there's the difference. You don't just order something else. You don't keep paying Burger King for new food items until you get a good one. You tell them that your cheeseburger is not up to par because the bread is moldy and they immediately take action to fix the problem.
before you twist and spin my words to make me sound like a jackass
If that's how you feel you come off, it is your own doing. I am simply pointing out that suggesting someone buy a different game instead is ludicrous, and the mere fact that you suggested that as a possible solution, yet again, tells me that you do not understand why people are upset.
If we all did that, Beamdog would go broke. Our goal is not to see the company fail. We want it to be successful. That's why we are upset. Beamdog is capable of doing incredible things with this game and we know it because we've had a taste. We, as a community, are trying to point out the issues here and what needs to be taken care of BECAUSE we want Beamdog to succeed with these games.
or buy/play a different game if a product or service frustrates you.
And you have, yet again, demonstrated a fundamental lack of understanding of the frustration that people have.
I'll make a deal with you, though. I'll bow out of this heated discussion and do my best to make you sound like a saint if you front the money for all of us to buy and play a different game until the next patch is released.
Can you move this drama to other topic? Everytime when I enter here I hope for some info about patch and for few days i only read whining. Patch will be released when it will be ready and countless number of complaining posts won't change it. Can't you wait patiently?
Again, I appreciate Dee volunteering his time to address concerns. I'll try asking my earlier question to the forum members who are asking people to be patient. I'll also try a @TrentOster and see if that does anything.
1. Does this seem a good state of affairs -- patches at 6 months and counting; waiting on new content for more than a year?
2. Considering the original Dev's standard -- 50 dollars for 16 NPCs, an improved engine, a gajillion playing hours, frequent patches with new content -- do you think that Beamdog has cleared the bar put in place by the original Devs?
Can you move this drama to other topic? Everytime when I enter here I hope for some info about patch and for few days i only read whining. Patch will be released when it will be ready and countless number of complaining posts won't change it. Can't you wait patiently?
That's not a complaining post about the actual lack of the patch being released. In fact, I haven't said anything this whole time. I just felt like it was silly to recommend we play something else. That's all. And to be quite honest, I don't feel like we've done anything outside of what this thread would/should provide. I feel like a discussion about what is expected when it comes to support is a relevant topic.
Nonetheless, I understand your desire to be able to check back for patch updates without having to wade through people who are arguing over various issues. I'll refrain from further responding to @Wiggles if it'll make the rest of the forum a happier place
what frustrates me is not the fact that the creation of this patch takes so long and the entire game is not working correctly but I can not understand what's the way why its taking so long , what the problems are and so on . My frustration would be attenuated if for example. deen could write a short weekly report here. that would help me a lot. and even if that would create a patch will still take 6 months, but continuously information would flow and one would not be every day wondering whether the patch is ready.
Last time we did it we managed it in about a week. We don't need a lot of confirmations, but we do want to make sure that everything's working correctly.
It has been far longer than a week and nobody understands why.
It has been far longer than a week and nobody understands why.
Probably because nobody (or almost) gave enough feedback on the quests checked successfully or failed. There was a form to give feedback quest by quest so this topic was not intended for that, but I don't remember reading any global feedback here. So, possibly, 0/721 is the actual state of feedback there was.
Probably because nobody (or almost) gave enough feedback on the quests checked successfully or failed. There was a form to give feedback quest by quest so this topic was not intended for that, but I don't remember reading any global feedback here. So, possibly, 0/721 is the actual state of feedback there was.
Read the rest of the thread. On page 5, @Dee apologized for not updating the numbers yet.
Probably because nobody (or almost) gave enough feedback on the quests checked successfully or failed. There was a form to give feedback quest by quest so this topic was not intended for that, but I don't remember reading any global feedback here. So, possibly, 0/721 is the actual state of feedback there was.
Read the rest of the thread. On page 5, Dee apologized for not updating the numbers yet.
If there weren't so many comments complaining, there wouldn't be a need to go two pages back.
I wish people would stop complaining about people complaining. I always get my hopes up when I see a new post in this thread - might it be someone complaining about the game or the patch delays? - but it's always just someone complaining about other people complaining. And now I'm complaining about people complaining about people complaining. ... Complainception.
I wish people would stop complaining about people complaining. I always get my hopes up when I see a new post in this thread - might it be someone complaining about the game or the patch delays? - but it's always just someone complaining about other people complaining. And now I'm complaining about people complaining about people complaining. ... Complainception.
I wish people would stop complaining about people complaining. I always get my hopes up when I see a new post in this thread - might it be someone complaining about the game or the patch delays? - but it's always just someone complaining about other people complaining. And now I'm complaining about people complaining about people complaining. ... Complainception.
Okay, sorry about that. Back to brooding.
I was going to make an analogy about nonlethal damage, the Intimidate skill, but then I started looking at videos with seals in them, and listening to Captain Jack. I'm going to go back to playing with my new best friends, Squigly and Leviathan. I can go and play with Branwen and Yeslick whenever I want, but I'd like to give them a chance to rest before I play with them again. They're tired.
I am helping nothing at all by talking about undead opera singers with dragons stuck in their heads.
Comments
I don't mean this a criticism of anyone's work ethic. My guess -- they have too few hands trying to do too much work.
I guess my question for the Devs would be -- do you hope to improve or does your current performance seem good enough?
That is not to say it does not have bugs, or that they shouldn't be fixed, or that it wouldn't be helpful to reexamine how the patching works to avoid such long gaps. But engaging in ill-tempered hyperbole does not help your argument.
Also, for the people complaining that Beamdog devotes a significant portion of their time to developing new things such as Android ports and DLC rather than just working on patches... those things have the very valuable ancillary benefit of actually making money, allowing the developers to be paid while they work on wonderful things like making patches that do not provide any significant direct income.
None of that is to say that people can't expect better. I've been waiting to do a good-aligned runthrough of BG2 since its release since I've decided I'd wait for the romance flags to get properly patched so I can continue my BG1 romance more smoothly, and that's not even coming in the next patch but the one thereafter. That's probably minimum a year away, and yeah, that kinda sucks and I hope BD is thinking of reexamining how they do this after the current patch cycle so the gaps aren't so large.
But it does not hurt to have some empathy and politeness. BD cannot do everything at once, and they do have to make money to stay in business. They are not withholding a patch to spite me or anyone else on the forum, and they are not delaying it because they don't care about the game. They allow comments on these forums that are vitriolic enough to get the posters banned from nearly any other company forum, and more than a few times they've even responded politely and professionally to those sorts of posts. Is it too much to ask that people make their concerns and frustrations known without flying off the handle and insulting them? I'm willing to bet that trying to make the dev team feel bad about themselves doesn't actually make a patch arrive any faster.
Obviously, some people are luckier than others when it comes to triggering bugs, and tolerance for those bugs (and the constant reloading they require) varies. But for me, speaking purely from what I've seen with my own two eyes, BG2:EE had more problems than the modded-up original I played two years ago. (And, in fact, the community has already started putting out hotfixes and fixpacks of their own, always a sign that faith in "official support" is wavering.) I find that unacceptable.
I'd also like to remind you that the discourse on this forum started with precisely the empathy and politeness you mentioned - if, after 18 months, the tone has gone sour, it's because Beamdog has repeatedly failed to address its customers' needs. Not to spite us, not because they don't care - these are, as @killerrabbit pointed out, just ways of deflecting criticism. They're simply proving to be remarkably inefficient and ill-organized, and it's showing, and it's frustrating. That's all.
What they have done is allow me to revisit a great series, an opportunity I otherwise wouln't have had (as I am technologically illiterate and have no desire to start down the path of MODS etc). And yes I have had to pay for this opportunity, but not much in my view, and I would have been happy to pay more. And yes there have been problems along the way, but without their efforts and this opportunity I wouldn't have been playing either game. AT ALL.
So yes, maybe I have lower standards. But I can't imagine I am alone in my views. So when people make sweeping generalisations about Beamdog and their labours, you don't speak for everyone. Certainly not me anyway!
I can certainly understand people's frustration, but if a game aggravates me that much; I just go play something else (for example right now it's Might and Magic 7) until the patch/content is released.
also can i use my load from BG1 in BG2:EE ?
What if we used that reasoning for everything?
"I can certainly understand people's frustration, but if a new car aggravates me that much; I just go drive something else (for example right now it's a Corvette) until the new engine is released."
"I can certainly understand people's frustration, but if a job aggravates me that much; I just go work somewhere else (for example right now it's Burger King) until the new boss is hired."
"I can certainly understand people's frustration, but if a wife aggravates me that much; I just go find someone else (for example right now it's Miranda, the maid) until the new attitude is released."
Is Beamdog awesome for having brought these games forward with enhancements? Absolutely! Is it incredible that they have more things in the works for additional content? No doubt! But don't forget, they didn't do this for you because they like the way you comb your hair. They charged you money for this product and you paid them for it. You shouldn't have to go play something else.
I don't know how many of you people were there before BG:EE was released, but anyone remember how much pain and time it took devs to get promotional material or new features throught approvals from their [Overhaul's] partners? What if the same thing is for this patch? Or any other patch for that matter?
I'd still very much like new content to be released in the form of DLC or whatever. I hope that the noticeably decreasing activity on the part of the devs is due to them working on creating more content for the Enhanced Editions. I wish I had something more substantial to go for, but since all we get from them is silence, blind hope that something good will happen is the only thing I have at the moment.
It is an old rant, but I will try to put it in perspective. Imagine a simple clerical error is all that stands between me and a working version of a product I have invested a great deal of myself and my time into.
For example, imagine I bought something like the Insantity workout program, a series of DVDs that give me a fitness program that evolves every day, leading me up to great results after 30/60 days. Retails closer to the BG series than a new car
(Of course there is another large group of potential customers at the "And 'Roids!" gym that feel they have been promised the workout, but are not able to buy it at all. While waiting for my clerical error to clear up, the whole company focus has been on making the basic workout available to this new chain, which demands lots of special tweaks in how the exercises are presented. Meeting long held expectation is good, but I don't understand why it interferes with correcting a simple clerical error.)
This is the world of the Mac customer. We are waiting for an *existing* patch that fixes a serious game-reset bug, sufficiently serious that many are simply waiting for the patch before playing, and after six months the only explanation we have is 'we forgot' eventually followed by 'but we have not forgotten about you', but no sign of a patch, nor suggestion that our patch is late because it needed extra work (it is, after all, already available for Mac if I bought direct from BeamDog). No explanation other than a simple clerical error that is not being corrected.
I am not ranting (this time!) because I am annoyed at BeamDog, I have made my peace and am settling in for the long wait, but I do get upset when other folks on the forum tell me that I should be happy and that this is normal or reasonable, or that simply being patient will fix the problem. What is a reasonable delay for fixing a clerical error before we admit patience alone will probably not fix it? How many months is it reasonable to ignore those reports of a missing patch before the customer is ignored and forgotten rather than merely at the back of an orderly queue?
Sadly, we are not ranting at the people who have the power to fix our problem, and we know this, but that whole feeling of powerlessness in the situation is what causes us to vent - a genuine thanks to BeamDog for giving us a forum to vent in! However dark it seems, at least this is not the world of EA!!!
I sense some sort of, i don't know, hostility in your post. I'm not sure why I suggested that doing something else while waiting instead of venting on the forums is insulting, but to each their own.
Allow me to give you the information of my wonderful teenage years. For about 6 years throughout high school and college, I worked at a Subway. There are multiple occasions when something that we order (bread, veggies, meat, cups, pop, anything else) wouldn't come in. So eventually we'd run out of something. We'll use tomatoes as an example What do you do to customers that want tomatoes? I can't offer them a discount or go to a store and buy some tomatoes. I can get fired for both of those. It's beyond my ability to help this customer because I can't give them what they want and not risk my job.
So what do I do? For six years all I could do is apologize and offer them something else or tell them to wait a week for shipment. So to them I was a bad employee, but I never once got threatened to lose my job. Sometimes we'd run out of bread. I'm sure you're asking yourself 'How the #$@% does a Subway run out of bread!?!?!?' Well, it happens. I can't offer an explanation and I wouldn't if I could. I can't, and won't, get mad about something that is beyond my control. Some things, yes, are worth getting frustrated about. A patch for a game? I'm sure you got plenty more as filler; and if not I recommend BG2 with mods cause to most people on this forum, it's a better product and it's (somewhat) free.
So when I go to a Burger King and get my moldy bread or they inform me they're out of something. I order something else (possibly somewhere else) or get a refund.
So if you want some more advice before you twist and spin my words to make me sound like a jackass, get a refund or buy/play a different game if a product or service frustrates you.
It happens to be my own experience, although I do of course fully accept there were lots of opportunities for me to get the game working over that period. I could have spent time and effort (maybe alot, maybe not so much) and been enjoying the series for the last several years. But I didn't - and yes, now I am grateful for the chance to buy the game and press a button and be playing it. Am I alone in feeling this way? Maybe. Maybe not.
So when people make sweeping generalisations about the project or the company behind it, it's important for me to pipe up and say, actually, you don't speak for me.
And with that I give an exagerated flick of my long flowing locks and an oversize shrug made to be seen from space, followed by a curt nod, and exit stage left.
I'm not frustrated with you. You took that wrong. I just think it's ridiculous for anyone to suggest I go do something else when I have paid for a service. I understand that frequently, tone is hard to grasp and understand over a text conversation, so I would like to point out that I am not hostile toward you in any way, friend. Again, it's insulting because you're recommending people stop venting their frustration when in reality, they shouldn't have to. I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to be upset and it is absurd to suggest their silence. Anyone remember Black Mesa Source? Now there's a group of people who I felt needed to stop complaining and suck it up. Why? Because Black Mesa Source was completely 100% free. You don't have to pay anything for it, so stop whining. BG:EE, however, was not free, and it is frustrating to continuously be waiting for patches and fixes that are needed to make the game function. And here's the problem with your analogy. At Subway, you tell the customer right away, "Hey brah, we've got no tomatoes! If you want tomatoes, we can't serve you today!"
In our situation, there was no warning and no heads up. We were sold a functional game that was everything BG was and more. A game with countless enhancements and features for us to be excited about. And we paid for it. A more proper analogy for you would be this:
"There are multiple occasions when something that we order (bread, veggies, meat, cups, pop, anything else) wouldn't come in. So eventually we'd run out of something. We'll use tomatoes as an example What do you do to customers that want tomatoes? I can't offer them a discount or go to a store and buy some tomatoes. I can get fired for both of those. It's beyond my ability to help this customer because I can't give them what they want and not risk my job.
So what do I do? I make them their sandwich anyway with no warning that we don't have tomatoes, then I allow other customers to tell them they're out of line when they complain that their sandwich is missing one of the items they asked for. Not only did I fail to tell them I wasn't going to include tomatoes on their sandwich before selling it to them, but I encourage other customers to tell them that if they're unhappy, they can just go to another restaurant. If that doesn't please them, I recommend they go get a sandwich across the street instead because it's cheaper. Lastly, I ignore and disregard all negative comment cards that anyone chooses to fill out because of my service. After all, they wouldn't even have a sandwich if I didn't make it for them."
You see the difference? And there's the difference. You don't just order something else. You don't keep paying Burger King for new food items until you get a good one. You tell them that your cheeseburger is not up to par because the bread is moldy and they immediately take action to fix the problem. I don't. If that's how you feel you come off, it is your own doing. I am simply pointing out that suggesting someone buy a different game instead is ludicrous, and the mere fact that you suggested that as a possible solution, yet again, tells me that you do not understand why people are upset. If we all did that, Beamdog would go broke. Our goal is not to see the company fail. We want it to be successful. That's why we are upset. Beamdog is capable of doing incredible things with this game and we know it because we've had a taste. We, as a community, are trying to point out the issues here and what needs to be taken care of BECAUSE we want Beamdog to succeed with these games. And you have, yet again, demonstrated a fundamental lack of understanding of the frustration that people have.
I'll make a deal with you, though. I'll bow out of this heated discussion and do my best to make you sound like a saint if you front the money for all of us to buy and play a different game until the next patch is released.
1. Does this seem a good state of affairs -- patches at 6 months and counting; waiting on new content for more than a year?
2. Considering the original Dev's standard -- 50 dollars for 16 NPCs, an improved engine, a gajillion playing hours, frequent patches with new content -- do you think that Beamdog has cleared the bar put in place by the original Devs?
Nonetheless, I understand your desire to be able to check back for patch updates without having to wade through people who are arguing over various issues. I'll refrain from further responding to @Wiggles if it'll make the rest of the forum a happier place
what we need is news from devs.. not all your presumptions !!
There was a form to give feedback quest by quest so this topic was not intended for that, but I don't remember reading any global feedback here.
So, possibly, 0/721 is the actual state of feedback there was.
Okay, sorry about that. Back to brooding.
I'm going to go back to playing with my new best friends, Squigly and Leviathan. I can go and play with Branwen and Yeslick whenever I want, but I'd like to give them a chance to rest before I play with them again. They're tired.
I am helping nothing at all by talking about undead opera singers with dragons stuck in their heads.