@kiwidoc I wonder if men should feel insulted for being portrayed as being walking masses of muscles that ooze testosterone.
"Stop portraying my gender as being a giant, muscular, growling and deep-voiced sex object, I'm a person!" It suddenly becomes funny if the roles are reversed which is interesting.
Just look at Sarevok. A towering, muscular, deep voiced and badass character with spiky armor. But if the villain was a half-naked, busty, sultry-voiced, sorceress it would be wrong and unrealistic?
Should we point at Sarevok and doom the design of the character as unrealistic and stereotypical male badass?
So I'm not sure if the men just don't care, women are overreacting or both. I'm not trying to start an argument but it's interesting observing the dynamics and reactions between the sexes actually and providing some food for thought.
And I honestly know of attractive and mature female gamers that make sexy and busty, half-naked characters on RPGs, so it really depends from person to person and personal opinion than the actual gender.
Basically it's more "I don't like it" than "This is wrong and bad".
Erm, I'm somewhat guilty in the making of half-naked, busty, sultry-voiced seducoresses (yay, a badly put together new word!). At the same time I prefer to see men who are tall, tanned, muscular and powerful looking. I'm not sure if I'm meant to be ashamed of myself right now; I guess when I switch my mind off and play a game I'd rather look at pretty things.
I like it. I also like realistic armour - it's all an indication of the artists tastes or sense of beauty and I don't see that as a bad thing, even if its somewhat lewd and unrealistic.
Ahem, sorry for the derailing . But thanks for the beautiful artwork.
@Lesse If a person tells you that you should be ashamed for your tastes in attractive characters even if they're unrealistic, they need to be hit on the head with a rock just to become more open-minded.
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
I like sexualized characters, male and female, and realistic-looking characters. And there's nothing wrong with that. I appreciate both styles for different reasons.
I am a fan of all beautiful art. On other forums and at other times I have promoted all types of fantasy art, including very sexualised images of both males and females. It is only more recently I have come to be upset by the images of women. I have spent the last month seeing literally thousands of images arranged by artist, and this has allowed me to see a very clear pattern.
Images of males in armour - the ratio of reasonably proportioned, sensibly clad warriors to over muscled, carrot shaped bloke baring extensive flesh is at least 2 or 3 to 1. Also I very, very rarely see males with strategic cut-outs to increase the sexuality of their armour, or wearing armour that seems to be only held on by superglue, or wishful thinking.
Images of females in armour - The ratio of women wearing scanty scraps of metal pasted to their bodies, or having strategic cut-outs and/or plunging necklines to increase the sexuality of their armour (while at the same time vastly decreasing its effectiveness) to those wearing moderately sensible or just less ridiculous armour is well over 10 to 1, probably over 20 to 1.
This pattern is markedly more noticeable in commercial art, especially game art. If you don't believe me then check out Legends of the Cryptids art - one of the worst culprits. To me that says this is the kind of art that sells – this is what the consumers of fantasy games want ... and let’s be honest. Even though the ratio is changing, most of the consumers are still males.
Also - the "offending" images of men are distorted in a way to make them more strong and powerful both physically and psychologically. They fit what a lot of males see as the "ideal" man. (note I freely admit that not all males see this as ideal, not by a long shot) Their poses tend to reflect confidence and aggression.
The images of women are distorted to make them less physically strong and more vulnerable. The poses tend to be of a sexual presentation type, rather than aggression. The bodies are twisted to show as many of what are deemed to be the sexually attractive parts as possible – showing as much breast and buttocks as is possible. They present an ideal female shape that is close to a very common male fantasy. Sadly many women and girls now strive to get as close to this shape as possible – excessive cosmestic surgery and eating disorders are just two of the resulting problems.
I personally find the message this pattern sends out is becoming more offensive, and I am not the only one. There are many discussion groups, threads, blogs etc that confront this issue. It is not just in fantasy art this issue is a serious problem. We are bombarded with toys for girls that promote ridiculous body images, and recently the practice of photoshopping models in advertisements and magazines has become such a problem even various governments have taken note.
Thankfully, even if this pattern pisses me off I am still capable of still seeing the great skill and beauty of individual pieces of art. I can admire and enjoy "The Birth of Venus" as well as gasping over the grace and beauty of some of the semi-nude woman warriors I have seen. BUT the images of both men and woman do not have to sexualised or distorted to be exquisitely beautiful and rendered with great skill.
The bottom line: I am not telling people they can’t appreciate any individual work of art. I am not telling anyone they should be ashamed of their taste in art. I am just asking them to stop and think about the overall pattern, and what that pattern means.
@Lesse I'm not telling you to be ashamed of your taste in art, so pretty, pretty please don't hit me on the head with a stone :P And thank you for thanking me for the great pictures.
When it comes to overly sexualized images, I'm mainly dumbfounded by the sheer silliness of it all. You want to draw a naked woman because there's a reason in the "story" of the drawing? Fine. You want to make it look like she's about to jump out of the picture and bone you?.. Why? To satisfy male urges? I understand the desire for it, but I don't understand why there needs to be so much of it.
It's like in video games. Often you have "mature" content, which is women who are overly sexualized, bone the main character for no f-ing reason, and are treated like objects. And then you have those few blessed games that are truly mature. If they show a woman naked? Who cares. As long as there's a REASON. And as long as they treat it logically, rather than "Oh, we need sex appeal in our game!" I haven't played it myself, but I hear that the Witcher does an excellent job of it. In fact, there's one scene where a girl rejects you. (I believe. I may have what happens slightly mixed up) Not because you're hideous, or she's married, or for whatever reason. She just doesn't want you. And the main character accepts it. Now, I may have this mixed up. It's either that, or you find her in a dungeon and she's shirtless. And she actually COVERS herself. Because, you know, she doesn't WANT to be seen, even after you've saved her. Either way, props to the developers.
Personally, I would rather see incredibly stylized art that l can say "Ooh! Shiny!" about or I'd like to see incredibly realistic art. Scantily clad women have their place, but for me I'd rather it be silly armor that covers your skin, or realistic armor. But whatever. I guess I'm just weird.
@Lesse I'm not telling you to be ashamed of your taste in art, so pretty, pretty please don't hit me on the head with a stone :P And thank you for thanking me for the great pictures.
...*Puts down the stone in her hand and tries to look innocent:p* O-OK...!
And you're welcome it's lovely and giving me some nice new pictures for my portraits folder.
@kiwidoc Heh, it was not directed to you. I was speaking in general. Noone should feel ashamed for their preferences, unless it's something really offensive and hurtful.
And any kind of nakedness or sexualized art should not be something to be ashamed of.
And I get what you mean about the trend but I think it's a Catch 22.
1) Sex sells. 2) People make sexy art or whatever, because it sells. 3) People buy/prefer said sexy art because they like it. 4) Go to 1.
It's not like someone is forcing it down our throats. If people like it, more of it will exist to satisfy said people.
And while an argument could be made for media like the TV or magazines, that's not true for internet art or video games. Many people like to make characters like that and many people like to see characters like that. Art is just a medium. Who's to blame? The people that want to make art like that and people that like it?
I mean, if people didn't like it, we wouldn't be seeing characters like that, so as long as there's a buyer/fan there would be providers. That's just the reality and nature of the beast.
@Elrandir I get what you're saying but I kind of disagree on an ideological point of view.
Why should there be a reason for a woman to be naked? Because it's visually pleasing both to the artist and the viewer. Since ancient times really. People were portrayed in art and statues as naked or half-naked because it's just beautiful to look at. That's it. Ancient Greeks considered the naked body beautiful and didn't mind nudity or making nude art.
Why does nudity bothers us more than violence? Why it's fine playing Mortal Kombat and having people dismembered and disintegrated but we're bothered by sexualized female characters and stuff like Dead or Alive?
I actually know why but that would open another can of worms.
In a sane world, seeing naked and scantily clad women and men in media would be absolutely fine and normal, because it's just the natural human body and violence would be the one frowned upon.
I mean, is there a reason for getting people chunked in Baldur's Gate other than to look cool and pretty? Why should there be a reason for a naked/half-naked character other than prettiness and sexiness?
And while the Witcher series is quite mature, it shows full frontal and back nudity on Triss, you have naked artcards on Witcher 1 of women and while it could fade to black or do cuts like Mass Effect and Dragon Age, it chooses not to.
Because they know that sex sells and they're not afraid to show something as natural as nudity.
I get it for realistic settings but not every setting is like that and not every artist wants realism in their art.
And I don't believe that someone that is scantily-clad is a slut that wants to have sex with the protagonist or everyone. They might be scantily-clad/naked because they like it and consider it sexy.
The same reason why many women put revealing clothes on with a deep cleavage and yoga pants or a short skirt or getting breast implants or makeup. There's no real or practical reason about it other than looking pretty and sexy.
I just found another picture of armor that included someone in full plate mail… except their buttocks were on full display (as in, missing pieces of armor). Why would anyone dress that way? That's just f'in ridiculous.
But here are some good ones for you.
by StepToEnchantment by legendary-memory by ElifSiebenPfieffer by oz-of-the-land by SirTiefling by jkuo by NikolaiOstertag
I love the concept of Druids and since female Druids are depicted as Eve from the Book of Genesis many times, I thought I would show a few decently clothed ones.
I'm collecting so many great pix I've decided to post all the pics by one artist at the same time, in the same post. I've therefore added another image to the Diane Kraus post at the top of this thread.
I have so many images to share I've decided it makes more sense to post all the images by a single artist at once. Therefore I've added a second image to the Diane Kraus post at the top of the thread.
I'm going to post all the images I want to share from a single artist in a single post. Keeps things much tidier that way. Therefore I've added another pic to the Diane Kraus post near the top of the page.
I'm going to post all the images I want to share from a single artist in a single post. Keeps things much tidier that way. Therefore I've added another pic to the Diane Kraus post near the top of the page.
Comments
"Stop portraying my gender as being a giant, muscular, growling and deep-voiced sex object, I'm a person!"
It suddenly becomes funny if the roles are reversed which is interesting.
Just look at Sarevok. A towering, muscular, deep voiced and badass character with spiky armor.
But if the villain was a half-naked, busty, sultry-voiced, sorceress it would be wrong and unrealistic?
Should we point at Sarevok and doom the design of the character as unrealistic and stereotypical male badass?
So I'm not sure if the men just don't care, women are overreacting or both.
I'm not trying to start an argument but it's interesting observing the dynamics and reactions between the sexes actually and providing some food for thought.
And I honestly know of attractive and mature female gamers that make sexy and busty, half-naked characters on RPGs, so it really depends from person to person and personal opinion than the actual gender.
Basically it's more "I don't like it" than "This is wrong and bad".
I like it. I also like realistic armour - it's all an indication of the artists tastes or sense of beauty and I don't see that as a bad thing, even if its somewhat lewd and unrealistic.
Ahem, sorry for the derailing
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
I like sexualized characters, male and female, and realistic-looking characters.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
I appreciate both styles for different reasons.
Images of males in armour - the ratio of reasonably proportioned, sensibly clad warriors to over muscled, carrot shaped bloke baring extensive flesh is at least 2 or 3 to 1. Also I very, very rarely see males with strategic cut-outs to increase the sexuality of their armour, or wearing armour that seems to be only held on by superglue, or wishful thinking.
Images of females in armour - The ratio of women wearing scanty scraps of metal pasted to their bodies, or having strategic cut-outs and/or plunging necklines to increase the sexuality of their armour (while at the same time vastly decreasing its effectiveness) to those wearing moderately sensible or just less ridiculous armour is well over 10 to 1, probably over 20 to 1.
This pattern is markedly more noticeable in commercial art, especially game art. If you don't believe me then check out Legends of the Cryptids art - one of the worst culprits. To me that says this is the kind of art that sells – this is what the consumers of fantasy games want ... and let’s be honest. Even though the ratio is changing, most of the consumers are still males.
Also - the "offending" images of men are distorted in a way to make them more strong and powerful both physically and psychologically. They fit what a lot of males see as the "ideal" man. (note I freely admit that not all males see this as ideal, not by a long shot) Their poses tend to reflect confidence and aggression.
The images of women are distorted to make them less physically strong and more vulnerable. The poses tend to be of a sexual presentation type, rather than aggression. The bodies are twisted to show as many of what are deemed to be the sexually attractive parts as possible – showing as much breast and buttocks as is possible. They present an ideal female shape that is close to a very common male fantasy. Sadly many women and girls now strive to get as close to this shape as possible – excessive cosmestic surgery and eating disorders are just two of the resulting problems.
I personally find the message this pattern sends out is becoming more offensive, and I am not the only one. There are many discussion groups, threads, blogs etc that confront this issue. It is not just in fantasy art this issue is a serious problem. We are bombarded with toys for girls that promote ridiculous body images, and recently the practice of photoshopping models in advertisements and magazines has become such a problem even various governments have taken note.
Thankfully, even if this pattern pisses me off I am still capable of still seeing the great skill and beauty of individual pieces of art. I can admire and enjoy "The Birth of Venus" as well as gasping over the grace and beauty of some of the semi-nude woman warriors I have seen. BUT the images of both men and woman do not have to sexualised or distorted to be exquisitely beautiful and rendered with great skill.
The bottom line: I am not telling people they can’t appreciate any individual work of art. I am not telling anyone they should be ashamed of their taste in art. I am just asking them to stop and think about the overall pattern, and what that pattern means.
Drew Baker ~ Part I
Drew Baker ~ Part II
It's like in video games. Often you have "mature" content, which is women who are overly sexualized, bone the main character for no f-ing reason, and are treated like objects. And then you have those few blessed games that are truly mature. If they show a woman naked? Who cares. As long as there's a REASON. And as long as they treat it logically, rather than "Oh, we need sex appeal in our game!" I haven't played it myself, but I hear that the Witcher does an excellent job of it. In fact, there's one scene where a girl rejects you. (I believe. I may have what happens slightly mixed up) Not because you're hideous, or she's married, or for whatever reason. She just doesn't want you. And the main character accepts it. Now, I may have this mixed up. It's either that, or you find her in a dungeon and she's shirtless. And she actually COVERS herself. Because, you know, she doesn't WANT to be seen, even after you've saved her. Either way, props to the developers.
Personally, I would rather see incredibly stylized art that l can say "Ooh! Shiny!" about or I'd like to see incredibly realistic art. Scantily clad women have their place, but for me I'd rather it be silly armor that covers your skin, or realistic armor. But whatever. I guess I'm just weird.
And you're welcome
And finding images for my portraits folder is how I got started saving links, and then I just couldn't stop :P
And any kind of nakedness or sexualized art should not be something to be ashamed of.
And I get what you mean about the trend but I think it's a Catch 22.
1) Sex sells.
2) People make sexy art or whatever, because it sells.
3) People buy/prefer said sexy art because they like it.
4) Go to 1.
It's not like someone is forcing it down our throats. If people like it, more of it will exist to satisfy said people.
And while an argument could be made for media like the TV or magazines, that's not true for internet art or video games.
Many people like to make characters like that and many people like to see characters like that.
Art is just a medium. Who's to blame? The people that want to make art like that and people that like it?
I mean, if people didn't like it, we wouldn't be seeing characters like that, so as long as there's a buyer/fan there would be providers. That's just the reality and nature of the beast.
@Elrandir I get what you're saying but I kind of disagree on an ideological point of view.
Why should there be a reason for a woman to be naked? Because it's visually pleasing both to the artist and the viewer.
Since ancient times really. People were portrayed in art and statues as naked or half-naked because it's just beautiful to look at. That's it.
Ancient Greeks considered the naked body beautiful and didn't mind nudity or making nude art.
Why does nudity bothers us more than violence? Why it's fine playing Mortal Kombat and having people dismembered and disintegrated but we're bothered by sexualized female characters and stuff like Dead or Alive?
I actually know why but that would open another can of worms.
In a sane world, seeing naked and scantily clad women and men in media would be absolutely fine and normal, because it's just the natural human body and violence would be the one frowned upon.
I mean, is there a reason for getting people chunked in Baldur's Gate other than to look cool and pretty?
Why should there be a reason for a naked/half-naked character other than prettiness and sexiness?
And while the Witcher series is quite mature, it shows full frontal and back nudity on Triss, you have naked artcards on Witcher 1 of women and while it could fade to black or do cuts like Mass Effect and Dragon Age, it chooses not to.
Because they know that sex sells and they're not afraid to show something as natural as nudity.
I get it for realistic settings but not every setting is like that and not every artist wants realism in their art.
And I don't believe that someone that is scantily-clad is a slut that wants to have sex with the protagonist or everyone. They might be scantily-clad/naked because they like it and consider it sexy.
The same reason why many women put revealing clothes on with a deep cleavage and yoga pants or a short skirt or getting breast implants or makeup.
There's no real or practical reason about it other than looking pretty and sexy.
我美蘭
http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=2003931Tiziano Baracchi aka Thaldir
Emily Balivet
But here are some good ones for you.
By Crimson Sky
By Iara Art
By Malakia Lagatta
@Archaos I know what you mean about druidesses being portrayed as naked nature children! Many thanks for the excellent pix
Hyung Chul Bae aka kickass433
Michael Bakerman
Nick Barfuss
UPDATE
I'm collecting so many great pix I've decided to post all the pics by one artist at the same time, in the same post. I've therefore added another image to the Diane Kraus post at the top of this thread.UPDATE
I have so many images to share I've decided it makes more sense to post all the images by a single artist at once. Therefore I've added a second image to the Diane Kraus post at the top of the thread.Arnaud Valette
UPDATE
I'm going to post all the images I want to share from a single artist in a single post. Keeps things much tidier that way. Therefore I've added another pic to the Diane Kraus post near the top of the page.UPDATE
I'm going to post all the images I want to share from a single artist in a single post. Keeps things much tidier that way. Therefore I've added another pic to the Diane Kraus post near the top of the page.Peter Balogh aka PeterPrime ~ Part I
Peter Balogh aka PeterPrime ~ Part II
Peter Balogh aka PeterPrime ~ Part III
So the artist name I'm told by @kiwidoc is Larry Elmore, thank you for remind me
Goldmoon:
Lorana: