What would you like to see in an NPC mod.

Ravenslight

I would like to try to approach this from a bit of a different angle. I have seen many post about what is a “good” NPC or “bad” NPC mod. This approach makes me a bit uncomfortable for several reasons. For one thing it seems to often get boiled down to an intense discussion naming a few different mods that some people have really taken a dislike to. I have even seen people who like such mods being labeled as having “bad taste”. From that point on, I see few other opinions being expressed.

Without giving the name of specific mods, what I would really like to know is what people would like to see more of. If you could write a mod, what are some of the things you would include. Remembering of course, that all peoples opinions are valid.

Just a few examples:
More interactions with other party members.
More personal quests.
Having the NPC fit in nicely with the PC’s quest.
Humor.
More serious situations.
More romance.
Unique NPC equipment.
Unique classes.
Mature content.
PG content.
Or anything else that you have always wanted to see.

elminster

An NPC with a mullet. I'd download that in an instant. Business in the front, party in the back.

Coutelier

I don't know. I've not played many NPC mods, but I suppose if I did what I'd be looking for is just something that fits with the themes and character of the rest of the game. It can be a serious NPC, or a comic NPC, or a bit of both; all of those already exist in the game. I'm not bothered about their quest fitting around the PC's quest, since to be honest it's the many other characters and sidequests that make the game, not the main story which is pretty average. But again, I feel the NPC quest should just have about the same level of content as already exists for other NPC's. The EE has opened the door a bit to have longer stories and areas devoted to them, but it should still be just be an episode in the wider saga, not a whole trilogy by itself.

Metalloman

Personally, I would like a mod that could extend my Underdark experience: that part of BGII was always so fascinating for me, so I would like a huge mod adding more to the Underdark part of BGII, adding quests, items, weapons, armors, npcs, banters, quests, enemies, locations, etc. etc. and maybe a return while in ToB: it would be great for me. What I desire is a really huge mod, of course. :P

Second, but at the same level of my first desire, is a mod that extends the experience of my CHARNAME after Amelissan, depending on how you ended ToB, if becoming a god or just a simple mortal. A mod that tells the story of CHARNAME after ToB, with great challenges, huge planar travel part (I love the planes), maybe crossing Sigil, the Abyss, or Bytopia, Mechanus etc etc, maybe involving Bhaal again (or maybe not), two different but linked plots (god/not god) and all that could be inherent to them...
But that is only a dream of mine and I'm pretty sure that many here will not agree with me.

Glam_Vrock

There is no point in asking what people want because everyone will give you a different answer. For example:

Ravenslight said:

Mature content.

I'm going to say no, please don't put porn in your mod because it is always awkward and terrible. But some people like it. Some people think it's sexy. So who do you want to write for? Me or them? Trick question; the answer is yourself.

meagloth

Glam_Vrock said:

There is no point in asking what people want because everyone will give you a different answer. For example:

Ravenslight said:

Mature content.

I'm going to say no, please don't put porn in your mod because it is always awkward and terrible. But some people like it. Some people think it's sexy. So who do you want to write for? Me or them? Trick question; the answer is yourself.

Well, mature(I hope) doesn't always mean porn. What I think @Ravenslight‌ means is just more "grown up" attitude, maybe dealing with serious issues or intense emotions.
Then again, maybe not. I guess it already says "more serious situations". If it is the case that it means porn, then I totally agree.

killerrabbit

I agree with @metalloman on both accounts -- something that extends the underdark and something that extends the adventure after the final battle would be fun. And big. A large expansion please.

I know that there is already a Soulefein mod but I'd like to see the Beamdog writers take a shot at that character.

On the @ravenslight 's list:

Things I value:

Lots of interactions / banters
Detailed backstory be that through romance or friendship.
Quests
Humor or serious as long as it is well done
Fits in the party [*]
Fits into the setting

Things that aren't important to me: Unique classes, unique equipment, mature / pg content

I think the game really needs a pure class, good or neutral cleric with lots to say.


[*] The basic D&D party is: fighter, thief, cleric, magic user. At present the game is has many fighters, a good number of magic users but few clerics and thieves.

Ravenslight

No porn folks. Though I am a fan of suggestive content within an NPC romance. But what I was really referring to was mature dialogue and situations.

CrevsDaak

I think that an interesting story and background are very important features, besides banters, quests and other contents. I don't care about romances or stuff like that.
The NPC having (not OP) personal stuff is also great (a coding tip: there's a 2DA that appends the "Only Usable by: NPCNAME" string to a particular file, you can use that one for things like this, but I can't recal it's name).
I also like a lot actions in a dialog *waves his hands* like in PS:T, but a little less present.

@Metalloman‌ both of your ideas would be GREAAAT!! But areas are sometimes difficult to make. Gotta say all the mod ideas I heard from you are great

For quests... No FedEx please, they are boring and easy to make, unless you have to search for the item in a random location guarded by powerful enemies, it would be lame

elminster said:

An NPC with a mullet. I'd download that in an instant. Business in the front, party in the back.

With the animation of "The Man you Have to Look for in Planescape: Torment and Fetch a Sphere for" of course!

SionIV

The NPC has to fit in with the original cast. Same amount of dialogues, quests and stuff like that. In my opinion a good NPC is one that doesn't stick out from the rest.

Ravenslight

CrevsDaak said:

I think that an interesting story and background are very important features, besides banters, quests and other contents. I don't care about romances or stuff like that.
The NPC having (not OP) personal stuff is also great (a coding tip: there's a 2DA that appends the "Only Usable by: NPCNAME" string to a particular file, you can use that one for things like this, but I can't recal it's name).
I also like a lot actions in a dialog *waves his hands* like in PS:T, but a little less present.

@Metalloman‌ both of your ideas would be GREAAAT!! But areas are sometimes difficult to make. Gotta say all the mod ideas I heard from you are great

For quests... No FedEx please, they are boring and easy to make, unless you have to search for the item in a random location guarded by powerful enemies, it would be lame

elminster said:

An NPC with a mullet. I'd download that in an instant. Business in the front, party in the back.

With the animation of "The Man you Have to Look for in Planescape: Torment and Fetch a Sphere for" of course!

I also like actions dialogue, like what was used in PS:T Thank you for the coding tip.

Kamigoroshi

Three things I'd like to see in new NPC's: ooze, slime and corrision. That is all.

Quartz

A believable corruption path.

AKA the most difficult thing ever. Don't believe anyone's pulled it off with this game.

SionIV

Quartz said:

A believable corruption path.

AKA the most difficult thing ever. Don't believe anyone's pulled it off with this game.

Anomen has a pretty good one?

element

Ravenslight said:

No porn folks.

well i'm all out of ideas

Ravenslight

element said:

Ravenslight said:

No porn folks.

well i'm all out of ideas

ROFL

iuventas

I'd like a completely, utterly despicable character. Someone who laughs good ones in the face and even evil ones feel uncomfortable looking at them. Not the brute force evil, but perhaps a mage or sorcerer who gleefully looks at bloodshed from aside and cheers if you do things only available for evil playthroughs (WHEE, we're working for a dragon! ). Maybe even making a cosy, little, disgusting nest in the poisoned Druid Grove, actually making the quest worth ending it this way. Continuing to terrorise Trademeet with animals, this time undead ones... hm.

An NPC who is at the same time extremely useful and oh so fascinating - maybe a short, skinny, sick looking necromancer who makes everyone flinch for seemingly no reason? Who is giddy like a little girl/boy when Charname kills innocents and then silently takes pieces of a corpse for some sick experiments?
I want an NPC absolutely impossible to like or excuse their actions... that is, unless Charname is just as sick.

SionIV

iuventas said:

I'd like a completely, utterly despicable character. Someone who laughs good ones in the face and even evil ones feel uncomfortable looking at them. Not the brute force evil, but perhaps a mage or sorcerer who gleefully looks at bloodshed from aside and cheers if you do things only available for evil playthroughs (WHEE, we're working for a dragon! ). Maybe even making a cosy, little, disgusting nest in the poisoned Druid Grove, actually making the quest worth ending it this way. Continuing to terrorise Trademeet with animals, this time undead ones... hm.

An NPC who is at the same time extremely useful and oh so fascinating - maybe a short, skinny, sick looking necromancer who makes everyone flinch for seemingly no reason? Who is giddy like a little girl/boy when Charname kills innocents and then silently takes pieces of a corpse for some sick experiments?
I want an NPC absolutely impossible to like or excuse their actions... that is, unless Charname is just as sick.

Xzar, that you?

iuventas

@SionIV‌, Xzar seems to be a mumbling madman (or at least adapts such demeanor, which I sometimes suspect) and that's exact opposite of what I had in mind:)

SionIV

iuventas said:

@SionIV‌, Xzar seems to be a mumbling madman (or at least adapts such demeanor, which I sometimes suspect) and that's exact opposite of what I had in mind:)

I think you're underestimating the guy who has 17 INT 16 WIS.

iuventas

SionIV said:

iuventas said:

@SionIV‌, Xzar seems to be a mumbling madman (or at least adapts such demeanor, which I sometimes suspect) and that's exact opposite of what I had in mind:)

I think you're underestimating the guy who has 17 INT 16 WIS.

Precisely why I talked about suspecting there is more to him than he shows - I suppose I should have written I *strongly* suspect his attitude is at least partially powered by madness, but exaggerated into a brilliant cover.
Still, he stands out very much. Not someone who could blend in, if not for some kind of almost tangible evil aura, if that makes any sense.

the_spyder

How about a Hot Coffee mod? You know, where you meet someone and you go out for Hot Coffee? and then sue McDonalds for apparently serving a known Hot beverage without printing the word "Hot" anywhere? Or is that something different?

Quartz

SionIV said:

Quartz said:

A believable corruption path.

AKA the most difficult thing ever. Don't believe anyone's pulled it off with this game.

Anomen has a pretty good one?

Decent, yes. I'm rather fond of Anomen. I'm not convinced he becomes evil but I didn't say that, did I..? I simply said corruption. So you're right, fair enough.

the_spyder

Quartz said:

A believable corruption path.

AKA the most difficult thing ever. Don't believe anyone's pulled it off with this game.

LOL. In PNP, I played a Neutral Wizard who (in secret) was hired to spy on the party members. After a bunch of adventures together where we fought side by side and saved each other's lives several times over, and in the penultimate plot point where they were returning from their quest with 'The prize', I stepped forward and betrayed the entire group to the villain of the piece. My alignment took a turn for the worst, but it was hands down one of the most memorable, enjoyable and satisfying moments of my PnP career.

kiwidoc

I think the things I like are the hardest to pull off.

Firstly - genuinely funny, quirky humour. I've always been a fan of Minsc and Jan, and the bottom line is I play to have fun! So some nice snappy interjections, in a voice that isn't irritating tin the slightest. I am as happy with a friendship path as a romance. We don't have to be always flinging our hearts at everyone we meet - most romances are short lived, but a good friend is for life. Fun and humour that appeals to a wide range of ages, backgrounds and culture is not easy to do, so I know I'm asking for a lot.

Secondly - I want to expect the unexpected. Little twists in the main plot that don't utterly derail it, just make it a wee bit newer. New encounters and perhaps new areas that aren't just more of the same. And a quest that demands more puzzle solving and brain work rather than just hitting things that are harder to hit than in vanilla BG. As you can see I'm more of a fan of the roleplaying than the combat.

Thirdly - something that allows PCs and NPCs to explore the shades of grey between the clean cut and sharply divided alignments. For example I'd love to see someone like Ajantis or Anomen faced with a choice between only bad options - picking the least bad rather than the "just and righteous path".

I appreciate I've made some pretty tall orders here ... but I am allowed some wishful thinking at my age.

Eadwyn_G8keeper

Lots more interactions with party members and important non-recruitable NPCs.

What about a Bard who actually can function like a Bard in Taverns, Inns, etc. Or a Mod that makes it possible for the Party to actually have a few rounds of Ale occasionally and possibly have interesting discussions about how and what the Party is doing.

I would also like more of a sense of what Sword Coast politics are. How much do groups like the Zentarim, Harpers, Merchants, Red Wizards, etc actually matter in everyday life compared to larger issues like the threat of an Amnish war in the near future.

Stuff like that to add depth to Charname's whole experience of leaving the sheltered environment of Candlekeep and suddenly being forced to figure out what in the world is actually happening in the historical moment

Or what about creating a Mod for unique Familiars that can make wry comments occasionally?

Ravenslight

Eadwyn_G8keeper said:

Lots more interactions with party members and important non-recruitable NPCs.

What about a Bard who actually can function like a Bard in Taverns, Inns, etc. Or a Mod that makes it possible for the Party to actually have a few rounds of Ale occasionally and possibly have interesting discussions about how and what the Party is doing.

I would also like more of a sense of what Sword Coast politics are. How much do groups like the Zentarim, Harpers, Merchants, Red Wizards, etc actually matter in everyday life compared to larger issues like the threat of an Amnish war in the near future.

Stuff like that to add depth to Charname's whole experience of leaving the sheltered environment of Candlekeep and suddenly being forced to figure out what in the world is actually happening in the historical moment

Or what about creating a Mod for unique Familiars that can make wry comments occasionally?

A bard, similar to what you mentioned, is something we have been tinkering around with in our mod. Not sure how far we can take the interactions yet, as we are still learning. But he is fun to work with.

JuliusBorisov

Ravenslight said:

Mature content.
PG content.
Or anything else that you have always wanted to see.

I'm scared to think what kind of attention such words, written combined, would bring to our forum as a result of google indexing.

On a more serios note, personality is the main thing regarding an NPC.

Take Xan, for example.

More interactions with other party members - no more, no less
More personal quests - nope
Having the NPC fit in nicely with the PC’s quest - "mas o menos"
Humor - check
More serious situations - semi-check (being caught by an enemy is a serios situation)
More romance - no, without mods
Unique NPC equipment - check
Unique classes - no
Mature content - no
PG content - no

But still he's one of the greatest of Bioware characters. How has it happened? You can't describe it in one or two words. He's unique. Noone is like him in this series. He has a stand-out personality. This is what makes him prominent.

And romances, unique clacces and/or abilities, even quests, that come without the strong and unique personality, can't make us love an NPC.

Ravenslight

bengoshi said:

Ravenslight said:

Mature content.
PG content.
Or anything else that you have always wanted to see.

I'm scared to think what kind of attention such words, written combined, would bring to our forum as a result of google indexing.

On a more serios note, personality is the main thing regarding an NPC.

Take Xan, for example.

More interactions with other party members - no more, no less
More personal quests - nope
Having the NPC fit in nicely with the PC’s quest - "mas o menos"
Humor - check
More serious situations - semi-check (being caught by an enemy is a serios situation)
More romance - no, without mods
Unique NPC equipment - check
Unique classes - no
Mature content - no
PG content - no

But still he's one of the greatest of Bioware characters. How has it happened? You can't describe it in one or two words. He's unique. Noone is like him in this series. He has a stand-out personality. This is what makes him prominent.

And romances, unique clacces and/or abilities, even quests, that come without the strong and unique personality, can't make us love an NPC.

I agree. It is the NPCs with the strongest personalities that I tend to take into my party again and again. Being a role-player, and never having been able to get far into the game when attempting to play and evil character, I have often wished the game would allow me to keep evil NPCs in my party. There are some evilly aligned characters with strong personalities that I have never been fully able to explore.

CoM_Solaufein

An emo NPC. Whine and whine and whine about how hopeless it is and how dreary the world is. He won't cut you with his dagger, he'll cut himself.

Corvino

As people have said, like druids, balance is important. Having a very focused character who has no humorous dialogue at all makes them a caricature and vice versa. Even Valygar and Anomen are occasionally fun or witty, and it offsets some of their general seriousness and makes them seem more real. Jan's sidequest actually makes him deadly serious for a while, elevating him beyond mere comic relief.

A good NPC is one you barely realise is new. They may have a sidequest but it shouldn't overshadow the PC. They should have dialogue and banters, but they shouldn't win every argument, be beloved by every character or talk constantly. They can be psychologically "strong" but they need flaws and vulnerabilities.

Some of the most interest NPCs I can think of do something a bit different. Wynne from Dragon Age: Origins nicely subverts the PC-NPC relationship by asking how *you* are doing and offering wise advice, instead of being another NPC in need of therapy.