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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835
    Six dead in Quebec City mosque shooting.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8ipBH42X98
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    With all this noise over the immigration ban--a move which anyone could have concluded would be a disaster with only a modicum of thought--I wonder what things are happening quietly in the background? Many politicians are skilled in the art of current events prestidigitation--misdirection.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Trump only has power because Americans are prepared to give it to him.

    Unfortunately, there seem to be plenty in officialdom who are quite happy to go along with him.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38792958
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    He's also announcing his stolen and illegitimate Supreme Court pick tomorrow. Anything other than complete and utter obstruction simply based on the rules the GOP has set for themselves is political malpractice by the Dems.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    Technically, Trump didn't steal a Supreme Court nomination. The Republicans in the Senate are the ones to blame for not performing their sworn duty by scheduling confirmation hearings for the person Obama nominated (after which he gave up trying). I am uncertain how the Democrats are going to block his nominee, though, since Reid changed the rules for filibusters, a move which will now hinder their ability to be the opposition party.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    He didn't personally steal it, it was stolen for him. The Senate's Constitutional duty is to advise and consent, and they REFUSED to do either. They took their ball and went home. Reid changed the filibuster rules because Republicans were blocking massive amounts of Obama nominees sight unseen. There wouldn't have been a functional government otherwise. I agree they can't stop the pick. You still attack them like hell and force McConnel to pull the trigger.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    With all this noise over the immigration ban--a move which anyone could have concluded would be a disaster with only a modicum of thought--I wonder what things are happening quietly in the background? Many politicians are skilled in the art of current events prestidigitation--misdirection.

    It's Bannon. Bannon specifically pushed for legal green cards to be included in the order. Remember the scene in "The Dark Knight" where Gordon realizes the Joker wanted to get arrested?? Bannon is a chaos agent (and a dangerous one at that). The airport situation this wknd was purposeful and absolutely brimming with malice.
  • WesboiWesboi Member Posts: 403
    Politics in the past 10 years have been absolutely nuts which we can all agree on. In the UK we had 2 prime ministers we didn't vote for in power (Brown and May) we had the Scottish referendum which was a huge waste of money on both sides and Scotland could no way of joined the European union on there own if they did separate.

    The Brexit was a joke. Lies told on both sides mainly the leave campaign was filled with stupid far right propaganda how extra funding would be made for the NHS blah blah bla and taking control of our borders which is nonsense.

    Don't even get me started on that moron trump. Seriously...
  • WesboiWesboi Member Posts: 403

    Let's talk numbers. There have been 3 deaths in the last 40 years in the United States that can be attributed to refugees. That's .075 deaths per year. So what kills more than refugees?? Here's a sample:

    Cows: 21/ per year or 288x more likely
    Hot water: 100 people a year
    Bees: 100 people a year
    Cell phones: 8/per day or 2920 people a year
    Swing sets: 20/ per year

    Your chances of getting killed by a refugee terrorist are 1 in 3.6 billion. The chance is so small, you could easily argue it is not only an overreaction to worry about this "problem", but also could be viewed as completely and utterly irrational.



    Maybe ban all dogs.

  • SethDavisSethDavis Member Posts: 1,812
    Wesboi said:



    how do we know it was accidental?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Toddlers accidentally getting ahold of firearms each year kill more people than all terrorists in the US COMBINED, nevermind refugees. The point being, is that the idea that anyone is in danger from these people is simply false. At which time, you have to examine the real reasons for this. And they are that fear and bigotry sell really well to alot of Trump voters.

    Trump Administration still directly defying a court order, though that's about as surprising as finding out that Dairy Queen sells vanilla ice cream. Of course they are defying the court order. What reason is there to think they wouldn't??
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835
    edited January 2017
    These idiots are going to be the reason Trump goes full retard and calls for martial law and classifies these types of protests as terrorism. Violence only begets violence.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf008xA1x1Q4









    "The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate.
    Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

    Hate begets hate; violence begets violence; toughness begets a greater toughness. We must meet the forces of hate with the power of love... Our aim must never be to defeat or humiliate the white man, but to win his friendship and understanding- Martin Luther King Jr.

  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037

    With all this noise over the immigration ban--a move which anyone could have concluded would be a disaster with only a modicum of thought--I wonder what things are happening quietly in the background? Many politicians are skilled in the art of current events prestidigitation--misdirection.

    It's Bannon. Bannon specifically pushed for legal green cards to be included in the order. Remember the scene in "The Dark Knight" where Gordon realizes the Joker wanted to get arrested?? Bannon is a chaos agent (and a dangerous one at that). The airport situation this wknd was purposeful and absolutely brimming with malice.
    I don't know if I would attribute it to malice, only short-sightedness and stupidity...even tough they often become malice when put into practice. In the meantime, we have this: White House policy director Stephen Miller said Saturday the Trump Administration is considering a policy requiring foreign visitors to disclose all websites and social media sites they visit, and to share the contacts in their cellphones. Failure to comply would be grounds for deportation.

    On the one hand, technically the Fourth Amendment does not apply to non-U. S. citizens; on the other hand, we have a history of allowing those constitutional protections to non-citizens while they are here because it is the right thing to do. I presume that this policy would not apply to foreign dignitaries. Still, if this policy gets put into place and I am a person who is planning on visiting the United States, what is to stop me from backing up/copying all my contacts into a personal journal, which they cannot seize, then wiping my phone so that it has no history or contacts on it? Even better, I have created a throwaway e-mail account (some generic service like GMail) and written a draft e-mail message that I don't send, the text of which contains all my contact names and numbers. Once I arrive at my destination (a hotel of some sort, most likely) I can log on to my e-mail account and retrieve my contact info without sending it through any e-mail servers.
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,847

    These idiots are going to be the reason Trump goes full retard and calls for martial law and classifies these types of protests as terrorism. Violence only begets violence.

    "Peaceful protest," they chant, after they knock out someone that opposes them. Hypocrisy of the highest order.

    This is why I wish liberalism as an idea could be erased from existence.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2017
    I only people responsible for the Trump Administration's actions are the Administration itself and the people who voted them in. The idea that "liberals" are somehow "forcing" them to become authoritarian is straight out of the "she was asking for it because she was wearing tight clothing" school of thought. Couple guys get into a fight so that makes creeping fascism ok??

    As for liberalism as an idea being erased, I mean....ok then?? How do you eliminate an idea without eliminating the people who hold those views??
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,847

    As for liberalism as an idea being erased, I mean....ok then?? How do you eliminate an idea without eliminating the people who hold those views??

    Emphasis on the "as an idea" part of the phrase. I don't have to want to eliminate the people that hold it as a view as well.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2017
    More news on an even more chilling possible Executive Order:



    Watch and see if this one comes down the pipeline. Gay rights are no longer negotiable in this society. Bannon is pushing chaos. He wants the protests, he wants to be able to turn to Trump's voters with an excuse for authoritarian police tactics. As for liberals, it's a Catch-22. You can't stay silent about such heinous actions, but the response will be framed as "unrest". I mean, has anyone ever listened to "Ohio"?? Heard of Kent State?? Tin Soldiers and Bannon coming, we're finally on our own.....

    Is there any question, in historical hindsight, that the protest movements of the '60s were completely just and correct, despite vicious opposition at the time??
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Most of the European world (Sweden, UK, Netherlands, etc) and the developed world are pretty far to the left of the USA. Do you gotta eliminate them too? Maybe it's time to start looking in the mirror.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    People don't like to acknowledge nonviolent protests on the part of their political opponents. We so strongly associate nonviolent protests with being on the right side of history that we can't accept that the "other side" has protested peacefully.

    We value the legacy of Martin Luther King Jr. and the civil rights movement, but we're afraid to let anyone else lay claim to it.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    We would be remiss to not point out that love has not always conquered all on it's own. That's a safe story for the history books, but not the case. For every MLK, there was Malcolm X and Huey Newton. For every Ghandi, a Mandela. For every Abe Lincoln, a John Brown or Nat Turner.

    The Black Panther Party and St. Ronnie's reaction to them as California proved there is a sure fire way to get conservatives to support gun control: have African-Americans start trying to exercise the same 2nd Amendment rights as white people.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    The victory of love is also dependent on the audience. I understand that Gandhi once acknowledged that his nonviolent resistance would not have worked if the Nazis controlled India, and I remember Nelson Mandela saying in his autobiography that his tactics only worked because the British believed themselves a basically civilized people.

    Nonviolent protests do not work against people who have no inner sense of justice. We saw that in China in 1989, and Syria more recently. Deng Xiaoping and Bashar al-Assad both opened fire on peaceful protestors. Some people only believe in military force.
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177
    The British did also open fire on Indian protesters too of course- see the Amristar massacre. We just didn't do it consistently. No doubt there are American officers who are willing to do so under certain circumstances.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2017
    I believe Nixon was the closet we ever had to that, in modern times (though sadly, it absolutely applies to the President Trump most admires, Andrew Jackson, who was nothing less than a genocidal maniac). Trump is very much like Nixon. The paranoia mixed with a dangerous case of malignant narcissism. He's basically a fool with a lifelong talent for bullying. But Bannon, who is clearly behind this stuff, is not a fool, but a dangerous, Rasputin-like character who has goals for this country that are very, very dark. And he is now sitting in on NSC meetings, unprecedented for a politcal staffer. Not even Karl Rove was that brazen. Bannon could start a war simply to cause a counter-reaction among the American public. He is a imminent danger to this country.

    In the meantime, until he gets Sessions in, a Obama appointee is acting AG, and she is refusing to enforce the Executive Order because she is concerned it isn't lawful. Trump can fire her. But there was another guy who pushed out multiple AGs. Didn't end so well for him.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2017


    Here we go. They are going to go to the mattresses to enforce the Muslim ban. The Monday Night Massacre. 9 days in. At least Nixon waited a term and a half to totally and utterly politicize the Justice Department. This will. not. end. well.

    It is now imperative for Democrats to mount a full-scale assault on Jeff Session's nomination until he answers questions about the Executive Order. They can't stop him, but they MUST stand in opposition.

    As I've said in multiple posts, the beginning of fascism isn't camps, registries and gas chambers. Those are the end product, the result. This is what the beginning looks like. Read Trump's statement on it, it's unhinged. And he uses the word "betrayal" about Yates.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    edited January 2017
    Oh for God's sake stop it. She was an Obama appointee biding her time until she was replaced. She had nothing to lose by 'standing up' to Trump. Her being fired is not surprising at all. Nor is it some portend that we're all going to be goosestepping in the near future. Get a grip on reality folks...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2017
    Balrog99 said:

    Oh for God's sake stop it. She was an Obama appointee biding her time until she was replaced. She had nothing to lose by 'standing up' to Trump. Her being fired is not surprising at all. Nor is it some portend that we're all going to be goosestepping in the near future. Get a grip on reality folks...

    She was handpicked by the Trump Administration to stand in until Sessions was nominated and she has served under Democratic and Republican Presidents. Nor is this one firing the single instance over the last nine days that would indicate where we are headed. It's one of about 3 dozen. It's a neat trick that people do when you mention "fascism". Because of Goodwin's Law, if it doesn't rise to the level of Concentration Camp-era Nazism, then it's dismissed as ridiculous comparison. This (deliberately) leaves out over a decade of history previous to that point, and also leaves out the fact that there are any number of other fascist regimes throughout history we can also look to for examples. Fascism, authoritarianism, call if what you want. You're witnessing it's infancy in this country. Don't take my word for it (no one does anyway). Just sit back and watch.

    He also tonight fired the Acting Chief of Immigration and Customs Enforcement because he is psychologically incapable of taking any responsibility for his own Executive Order and what it caused.
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835

    Fascism, authoritarianism, call if what you want. You're witnessing it's infancy in this country. Don't take my word for it (no one does anyway). Just sit back and watch.

    If it would really happen there would be an all out civil war. Probably what the powers that be want. Thin the herd. Don't think the rest of the world would let that happen either. Sanctions on top of sanctions is bad business for capitalists.
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835
    Balrog99 said:

    Oh for God's sake stop it. She was an Obama appointee biding her time until she was replaced. She had nothing to lose by 'standing up' to Trump. Her being fired is not surprising at all. Nor is it some portend that we're all going to be goosestepping in the near future. Get a grip on reality folks...

    Some people play video games, some do crack, others get paranoid on the BG forums. It's all good homie.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    Usually political housekeeping takes place almost immediately once a new Administration assumes office. We are one week in--does that count as "immediate" from a political point of view? We have a long and glorious history of Presidents politicizing various agencies which are supposed to be non-political. Whether they admit it or not, every President has an enemies list.

    For those who might still be comfortable with the President throwing out executive orders, whether that President is Democrat or Republican, I must remind you of the inherent dangers of allowing executive orders to have the force of actual law. I need only one example to make my case: Executive Order 9066, issued 19 February 1942.
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