Right. And what do all the people pushing for these laws have in common?? Hint: they have a letter in parentheses after their name that comes after Q and before S. The MN law came out of a Republican committee. The North Dakota legislature is so red you can't even see a hint of blue without a telescope. Same with Indiana. The bill in Washington is also being sponsored by a....wait, what party?? Oh yeah. That one. Every single example cited here is either introduced or sponsored by Republicans.
This is why I abandoned the Republicans for Libertarians years ago (but I still won't join the party--I am too independent for that). Neither major party has the best interest of the country at heart, only their own partisan agenda. If we--the collective we--were smart then we would stop voting D or R...but we won't because we--the collective we--are not smart. Too many of us are trapped into thinking that the only paths are D or R but the sad reality is that both paths lead to ruin.
I wouldn't mind seeing some reform like this make its way to the United States. We have such low voter turnout that in many cases a significant minority--people who actually get out and vote--wind up electing the representation they want while the rest of us just have to accept it.
Ideally, I wouldn't mind a system whereby if voter turnout is not >= 51% of all eligible voters then *no one* gets elected, period.
*************
Protesting is the highest form of patriotism possible (I apologize for the alliteration). No, not everyone can afford to leave work to go protest but at least some people feel that their cause is important enough to do so. The problem with protesters these days is that so many of them are clueless about how one properly engages in a debate. You do not attack your opponent directly, you don't go after their children or spouses, you don't call them names, you don't refer to them as "nazis" or any other emotionally-charged logical fallacy that, truthfully, makes you look like an idiot. Instead, you examine your opponent's stated position and attempt to refute it via statistics or finding flaws in their reasoning.
Now, on the topic of celebrities protesting...well, they are people, too, and thus entitled to an opinion. The fact that someone might be an entertainer or actor should not give their opinion more weight than anyone else, though. To target someone specifically, I will note that Madonna has not been relevant for at least 20 years, a fact of which she is also aware, so that might be causing her to be a little upset. On the other hand, at least she has the guts to get out and speak her mind in public, which is something that many people do not do.
There is a good reason all the examples of unruly "SJW" behavior all stem from college campuses. It's because college students are goddamn idiots. Inevitability, when you first get to college you'll run into an internet meme about how college is like kindergarten in alot of ways. It is, in many ways, free from your parents for the first time, absolutely infantile behvaior reigns supreme.
I see college campuses riot at least twice a year because of sports wins. I watch Penn State almost burn to the ground because the students were pissed they fired a coach who had been harboring a serial pedophile for 2 decades. College kids do really stupid shit.
As for Milo.....Milo is a scumbag of the highest order who has been making his living for the last year speaking at college campuses and bitching about how he isn't allowed to speak at college campuses. My absolute favorite thing about it is his fans do not realize they are being played. It's a total act. Here is Milo just before his makeover and realizing there was a huge market in catering to young, male sociopaths:
Here's how a college student gets into Milo and the Alt-Right: You are under the impression all through high school that college is going to be absolutely awash in sexual opportunities. Some guys get there and then realize their general views on society make it so no women will touch them with a ten foot pole. They start to get angry about this, blaming women and particularly feminists for their failures in this regard. They start to think they are being denied their god-given right to spread their seed. Milo's audience is college kids who aren't getting laid.
If you don't want people protesting stop catering to the extreme fringe of the party. Who's handing out checks to the millions and millions and millions of people protesting all around the world?
You don't have to be a paid protester to realize Trump's policies are bad for America and the world.
Two weeks in and he's pissed on Mexico, Australia, Germany, China, Iran, and Japan to name a few countries. Millions of people in the UK have demanded that he not be invited to the UK. Our other neighbor, Canada, has held emergency sessions of government as a result of Trump's muslim ban.
There's people upset with him all over the world. If you believe there's someone handing out checks all over the world, I don't know what to tell you because you are going to believe whatever you want to hear anyway.
At home, he's also crafted policies aimed at making enemies of Americans, the Press, women's rights, the poor, muslims. He's given ignorant speeches that he makes about himself when talking to black people, jewish people when on holocaust remembrance day he failed to mention jewish people during his speech, he also when announced his discriminatory muslim ban on that same day. At the national prayer breakfast he demanded people pray for Arnold Schwarzenegger to get better ratings on the Apprentice. What a guy! He's attempting to destroy the US education system with his education pick Betsy Devos and he's tapped Jerry Fallwell Jr. to review and make changes to higher education. He's pissed on the US state department, the FBI and CIA, the Parks department, he's approved unpopular oil pipelines, and has appointed people holding extreme views at every level of government.
He's made and continues to make extremely unpopular decisions.
Oh and a Liberal breaking a campaign promise is usually a given here. We'd be more shocked if they did everything in their platform. Electoral reform isn't even the big one, it's Trudeau promising to run a $30 Billion deficit for 3 years (yes, he promised to spend more money that he was going to make and still got elected) and turned around and increased it to $52 Billion in two years. No one bats an eye.
The notion that these protestors are paid to protest is silly. Putting aside the paucity of evidence, the motive doesn't even make sense. If somebody had zillions of dollars and wanted to influence politics, they'd spend that money during elections, not after them.
And if you did pay people to protest in this country, you'd tell them NOT to instigate violence. For one thing, asking them to commit crimes would put you in legal hot water. Second, and you'd have to pay a lot more money if you were asking them to do something that could get them locked up. Finally, having them commit crimes would make your side look bad--if you want to promote your viewpoint, you wouldn't want people to think your supporters are violent thugs.
And since you couldn't possibly vet every person you're paying to protest, there'd be no way of ensuring that one conscientious objector wouldn't spill the beans. That's the problems with huge conspiracies: it only takes one person to destroy the whole thing.
If I had millions of dollars and wanted to use it influence politics, I'd donate to individual politicians' campaigns, during elections. That has a proven track record of success. I wouldn't hand it off to random strangers after the election is already over, asking them to commit crimes that would make my side look bad and hoping that none of them would turn around, take the incriminating information about myself that I had just given to thousands of people, and use it against me.
Oh and a Liberal breaking a campaign promise is usually a given here. We'd be more shocked if they did everything in their platform. Electoral reform isn't even the big one, it's Trudeau promising to run a $30 Billion deficit for 3 years (yes, he promised to spend more money that he was going to make and still got elected) and turned around and increased it to $52 Billion in two years. No one bats an eye.
FTFY
Oh it was billion (which is scarier). Still doubling it though. Still pandering to voters in spending money the country does not have and placing that debt on future generations.
Of course if I wanted to fund protesters I wouldn't give the money directly to them. I'd give it to organizations that gather and mobilize them. That way my hands are clean. Rich people aren't morons!
Oh and a Liberal breaking a campaign promise is usually a given here. We'd be more shocked if they did everything in their platform. Electoral reform isn't even the big one, it's Trudeau promising to run a $30 Billion deficit for 3 years (yes, he promised to spend more money that he was going to make and still got elected) and turned around and increased it to $52 Billion in two years. No one bats an eye.
FTFY
Oh it was billion (which is scarier). Still doubling it though. Still pandering to voters in spending money the country does not have and placing that debt on future generations.
Technically I think it was 10 billion deficit each year for 3 years. Either way that has been exceeded at this point.
Of course if I wanted to fund protesters I wouldn't give the money directly to them. I'd give it to organizations that gather and mobilize them. That way my hands are clean. Rich people aren't morons!
so where are these protesting sign up organizations exactly? Because millions and millions of people worldwide are doing it at their own expense.
Not believing that gajillionaires do not pay people to protest is alarmingly ignorant. Organizations have been doing it in Europe for decades now. The growing of Antifa in North America only means that it's true. They are mercenaries for hire. Period.
Of course if I wanted to fund protesters I wouldn't give the money directly to them. I'd give it to organizations that gather and mobilize them. That way my hands are clean. Rich people aren't morons!
Replace rich people with "organizations" and all of my previous points still hold true: 1. NGOs don't have the money to pay thousands--or in the case of the women's march, millions--of people to protest. 2. If NGOs want to influence politics, they donate to political campaigns instead. You buy political power by buying politicians, not random nobodies on the street. 3. If NGOs want to spend money to influence politics, they'd spend their money during the election, not after. 4. NGOs can't vet massive groups of people, either. If you pay thousands of people to march, you can't stop even a single one of them from spilling the beans and publishing the proof. 5. This is probably why the evidence that these protestors are paid to march is still just blind speculation. Paying people leaves a paper trail, and yet none of the accusations about paid protestors have featured a paper trail. The belief predated the evidence; the accusation was made from whole cloth.
I know the Koch brothers financed the Tea Party-there was a paper trail for that--but I know better than to assume Tea Party protestors were only doing it for the money. People march because they're angry about something. The corruption in our system does not come from paid protestors; it comes from campaign contributions:
1. Paying people to protest would be inefficient (too many people to pay), risky (too many people to monitor), ineffective (protestors don't write legislation), and highly visible (everyone could see it). 2. But trying to purchase a politician's favor is efficient (only one person to bribe), safe (only one person to monitor), effective (studies have found that campaign contributions do influence legislation), and invisible (we don't always know who a politician's donors are).
Whether I was a private individual or an NGO, I wouldn't bother with the first option, because I'd know that the second option is superior in every way.
To be honest I'm not even sure protests hold the same power as they did in the past. I think they happen so often these days and they're covered so heavily by the story-hungry media that they've become rather 'ho-hum' now.
Not believing that gajillionaires do not pay people to protest is alarmingly ignorant. Organizations have been doing it in Europe for decades now. The growing of Antifa in North America only means that it's true. They are mercenaries for hire. Period.
Saying period doesn't make something magically true. Present evidence.
People in the UK hate Trump. Pretty much all of them. I don't need to join the protest marches to know that. I just have to walk into the staff room where I work and listen in at any conversation. Or listen to the children's conversations for that matter.
Okay lets pretend once ever once a person paid somebody to protest. That does not mean all protestors are paid protestors. Thinking in stereotypes like this just doesn't hold up to reality. That is like thinking one guy is a white nationalist, all guys are white nationalists. One paid protester, all paid protestors.
Which hidden gazillionaires are able to finance protests worldwide in secret without somebody somewhere saying anything? How are the protesters living, working, raising families the rest of the time when they aren't paid protesting? Do they get paid year around even when there's no protests? Probably these millions of people are paid enough money to live comfortably on to sit around and just be ready to protest.
Where's the easily accessible paid protester sign up sheet or website that millions and millions of people have supposedly used that is somehow still a secret and somehow still ongoing?
People in the UK hate Trump. Pretty much all of them. I don't need to join the protest marches to know that. I just have to walk into the staff room where I work and listen in at any conversation. Or listen to the children's conversations for that matter.
Must be somebody paying the people in the UK including children.
People in the UK hate Trump. Pretty much all of them. I don't need to join the protest marches to know that. I just have to walk into the staff room where I work and listen in at any conversation. Or listen to the children's conversations for that matter.
Must be somebody paying the people in the UK including children.
Everyone apart from me! It's not fair, I always miss out on everything!
If anyone is interested in an actual paid (or more accurately, manufactured) protest, look into the Brooks Brothers Riot. During Bush v. Gore, a mob of people descended upon the Miami-Dade election office demanding the vote counts stop. The media played it up as angry citizens demanding justice (which was the intent). In fact, it was organized and populated with Republican congressional staffers. Who else was involved?? Trump hatchet man Roger Stone. What's old is new again.
Plot thickens at UC Berkeley. School officials are saying that none of those arrested were students. If they weren't students, how did they know about the event and where on campus to focus the protests?? Furthermore, all of them are conveniently wearing masks and no one seems to have a clue who they were. So it seems JUST as likely to me that Milo or someone else had these people infiltrate the crowd to instigate violence. Do I know this happened?? Absolutely not. Would I put it past a professional provacateur?? No way. I'd also point out that a Milo supporter SHOT protestor last week in what I believe was Seattle. And Trump is going to bat for him today, likely because Milo's former boss Bannon is now playing the role of Rasputin. Reichstag Fire anyone??
Plot thickens at UC Berkeley. School officials are saying that none of those arrested were students. If they weren't students, how did they know about the event and where on campus to focus the protests?? Furthermore, all of them are conveniently wearing masks and no one seems to have a clue who they were. So it seems JUST as likely to me that Milo or someone else had these people infiltrate the crowd to instigate violence. Do I know this happened?? Absolutely not. Would I put it past a professional provacateur?? No way. I'd also point out that a Milo supporter SHOT protestor last week in what I believe was Seattle. And Trump is going to bat for him today, likely because Milo's former boss Bannon is now playing the role of Rasputin. Reichstag Fire anyone??
Cool, Milo put them there, not a gajillionaire right? Not Antifa right? Meh. This event is your proof. Period.
I am bowing out of this thread as I have just been informed that I have made racist comments. Never have in my life. Why would I. Two of my adoptive kids are Black and two are Romani. All good. Good luck guys and I hope for health and happiness to all of you in life.
I'm about as liberal/left as they come, and until this afternoon when I looked it up I had not the faintest clue what Antifa was (but god does that word sound annoying in my head). Apparently some anarchist collective?? Let me speak for 95+% of liberals/ leftists/Democrats when I say I wish they would go the hell away. They've been engaging in this counterproductive nonsense since the WTO in 2000, and they are flat out dangerous in a time when Trump and Bannon can use them to tar entire groups of people.
Cool, Milo put them there, not a gajillionaire right? Not Antifa right? Meh. This event is your proof. Period.
Not so much. Milo seems to be benefiting from the "attack" by masked men. He's getting interviews and headlines. Would not put it past him or other right wingers. period.
EDIT: case in point Fox news website now features an upcoming interview with Milo and Tucker Carlson as the headline on their website. And the silly president is tweeting out support. Yeah this has all worked out nicely for poor Milo somehow.
5. This is probably why the evidence that these protestors are paid to march is still just blind speculation. Paying people leaves a paper trail, and yet none of the accusations about paid protestors have featured a paper trail. The belief predated the evidence; the accusation was made from whole cloth.
This is what I find so frustrating with just about every political debate I come across these days. There are so much blind speculation, misconceptions, vast exaggerating or flat out lying that has to be disproven that it is hard to actually talk about real, important issues.
The irony is that the same people spreading these, often bizarre, lies also question every little fact and demand proof (that they often don't care about when it's presented). And in the end you get one long conversation where people who might've had interesting things to say to each other instead have to disprove obvious lies and prove obvious truths. All the while being called ignorant, insane, stupid or sheep. It's just sad. And no, I'm not talking about truths/lies as in "things I like to hear/don't like to hear".
An example: the other day I saw someone who in a very confrontational tone demanded proof that Donald Trump had a co-author to Art of the deal. Even though the co-author's name is printed on the book cover and no one has ever denied his involvement as far as I know. The person didn't answer when proof was provided, but had of course already succeded in derailing the conversation.
It's been documented that rich American Corporations gave money to organizations like Tides Canada and Aboriginal Communities to protest and disrupt the Keystroke Pipeline construction and environmental assessment.
If I wasn't on my phone, I'd give you links.
And millions of people do it on their own dime yes. But dont be surprised if influential groups are given money.
It's been documented that rich American Corporations gave money to organizations like Tides Canada and Aboriginal Communities to protest and disrupt the Keystroke Pipeline construction and environmental assessment.
If I wasn't on my phone, I'd give you links.
And millions of people do it on their own dime yes. But dont be surprised if influential groups are given money.
No, that isn't surprising and there are proven examples of that happening as you say. But there is quite a difference between that and reducing those millions of people you mention to thugs who are just there for the money. That's more of a cheap way to dismiss people's opinions and undermine political opponents. I guess it is also frustrating to see such massive protests when you claim to represent "the silent majority".
The White House has instructed females working there to "dress like women"
What the--?! What does that even mean? Are the women who work there supposed to wear jeans and a t-shirt like many other women do? Or perhaps a pantsuit like Hillary wore? Perhaps a sari? How about a gagra choli? A little black dress? A wedding dress? An evening gown? Why not a muumuu?
Comments
Ideally, I wouldn't mind a system whereby if voter turnout is not >= 51% of all eligible voters then *no one* gets elected, period.
*************
Protesting is the highest form of patriotism possible (I apologize for the alliteration). No, not everyone can afford to leave work to go protest but at least some people feel that their cause is important enough to do so. The problem with protesters these days is that so many of them are clueless about how one properly engages in a debate. You do not attack your opponent directly, you don't go after their children or spouses, you don't call them names, you don't refer to them as "nazis" or any other emotionally-charged logical fallacy that, truthfully, makes you look like an idiot. Instead, you examine your opponent's stated position and attempt to refute it via statistics or finding flaws in their reasoning.
Now, on the topic of celebrities protesting...well, they are people, too, and thus entitled to an opinion. The fact that someone might be an entertainer or actor should not give their opinion more weight than anyone else, though. To target someone specifically, I will note that Madonna has not been relevant for at least 20 years, a fact of which she is also aware, so that might be causing her to be a little upset. On the other hand, at least she has the guts to get out and speak her mind in public, which is something that many people do not do.
I see college campuses riot at least twice a year because of sports wins. I watch Penn State almost burn to the ground because the students were pissed they fired a coach who had been harboring a serial pedophile for 2 decades. College kids do really stupid shit.
As for Milo.....Milo is a scumbag of the highest order who has been making his living for the last year speaking at college campuses and bitching about how he isn't allowed to speak at college campuses. My absolute favorite thing about it is his fans do not realize they are being played. It's a total act. Here is Milo just before his makeover and realizing there was a huge market in catering to young, male sociopaths:
http://kernelmag.dailydot.com/yiannopoulos/3359/the-internet-is-turning-us-all-into-sociopaths/
Here's how a college student gets into Milo and the Alt-Right: You are under the impression all through high school that college is going to be absolutely awash in sexual opportunities. Some guys get there and then realize their general views on society make it so no women will touch them with a ten foot pole. They start to get angry about this, blaming women and particularly feminists for their failures in this regard. They start to think they are being denied their god-given right to spread their seed. Milo's audience is college kids who aren't getting laid.
You don't have to be a paid protester to realize Trump's policies are bad for America and the world.
Two weeks in and he's pissed on Mexico, Australia, Germany, China, Iran, and Japan to name a few countries. Millions of people in the UK have demanded that he not be invited to the UK. Our other neighbor, Canada, has held emergency sessions of government as a result of Trump's muslim ban.
Threat of global trade war rises as Japan joins Germany in condemnation of Donald Trump
Public figures call for biggest ever UK protest to oppose Trump visit
There's people upset with him all over the world. If you believe there's someone handing out checks all over the world, I don't know what to tell you because you are going to believe whatever you want to hear anyway.
At home, he's also crafted policies aimed at making enemies of Americans, the Press, women's rights, the poor, muslims. He's given ignorant speeches that he makes about himself when talking to black people, jewish people when on holocaust remembrance day he failed to mention jewish people during his speech, he also when announced his discriminatory muslim ban on that same day. At the national prayer breakfast he demanded people pray for Arnold Schwarzenegger to get better ratings on the Apprentice. What a guy! He's attempting to destroy the US education system with his education pick Betsy Devos and he's tapped Jerry Fallwell Jr. to review and make changes to higher education. He's pissed on the US state department, the FBI and CIA, the Parks department, he's approved unpopular oil pipelines, and has appointed people holding extreme views at every level of government.
He's made and continues to make extremely unpopular decisions.
And if you did pay people to protest in this country, you'd tell them NOT to instigate violence. For one thing, asking them to commit crimes would put you in legal hot water. Second, and you'd have to pay a lot more money if you were asking them to do something that could get them locked up. Finally, having them commit crimes would make your side look bad--if you want to promote your viewpoint, you wouldn't want people to think your supporters are violent thugs.
And since you couldn't possibly vet every person you're paying to protest, there'd be no way of ensuring that one conscientious objector wouldn't spill the beans. That's the problems with huge conspiracies: it only takes one person to destroy the whole thing.
If I had millions of dollars and wanted to use it influence politics, I'd donate to individual politicians' campaigns, during elections. That has a proven track record of success. I wouldn't hand it off to random strangers after the election is already over, asking them to commit crimes that would make my side look bad and hoping that none of them would turn around, take the incriminating information about myself that I had just given to thousands of people, and use it against me.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sean-hannity-twitter-question_us_58903d4fe4b02772c4e9017b
1. NGOs don't have the money to pay thousands--or in the case of the women's march, millions--of people to protest.
2. If NGOs want to influence politics, they donate to political campaigns instead. You buy political power by buying politicians, not random nobodies on the street.
3. If NGOs want to spend money to influence politics, they'd spend their money during the election, not after.
4. NGOs can't vet massive groups of people, either. If you pay thousands of people to march, you can't stop even a single one of them from spilling the beans and publishing the proof.
5. This is probably why the evidence that these protestors are paid to march is still just blind speculation. Paying people leaves a paper trail, and yet none of the accusations about paid protestors have featured a paper trail. The belief predated the evidence; the accusation was made from whole cloth.
I know the Koch brothers financed the Tea Party-there was a paper trail for that--but I know better than to assume Tea Party protestors were only doing it for the money. People march because they're angry about something. The corruption in our system does not come from paid protestors; it comes from campaign contributions:
1. Paying people to protest would be inefficient (too many people to pay), risky (too many people to monitor), ineffective (protestors don't write legislation), and highly visible (everyone could see it).
2. But trying to purchase a politician's favor is efficient (only one person to bribe), safe (only one person to monitor), effective (studies have found that campaign contributions do influence legislation), and invisible (we don't always know who a politician's donors are).
Whether I was a private individual or an NGO, I wouldn't bother with the first option, because I'd know that the second option is superior in every way.
Which hidden gazillionaires are able to finance protests worldwide in secret without somebody somewhere saying anything? How are the protesters living, working, raising families the rest of the time when they aren't paid protesting? Do they get paid year around even when there's no protests? Probably these millions of people are paid enough money to live comfortably on to sit around and just be ready to protest.
Where's the easily accessible paid protester sign up sheet or website that millions and millions of people have supposedly used that is somehow still a secret and somehow still ongoing?
I am bowing out of this thread as I have just been informed that I have made racist comments. Never have in my life. Why would I. Two of my adoptive kids are Black and two are Romani. All good. Good luck guys and I hope for health and happiness to all of you in life.
Peace.
EDIT: case in point Fox news website now features an upcoming interview with Milo and Tucker Carlson as the headline on their website. And the silly president is tweeting out support. Yeah this has all worked out nicely for poor Milo somehow.
The irony is that the same people spreading these, often bizarre, lies also question every little fact and demand proof (that they often don't care about when it's presented). And in the end you get one long conversation where people who might've had interesting things to say to each other instead have to disprove obvious lies and prove obvious truths. All the while being called ignorant, insane, stupid or sheep. It's just sad. And no, I'm not talking about truths/lies as in "things I like to hear/don't like to hear".
An example: the other day I saw someone who in a very confrontational tone demanded proof that Donald Trump had a co-author to Art of the deal. Even though the co-author's name is printed on the book cover and no one has ever denied his involvement as far as I know. The person didn't answer when proof was provided, but had of course already succeded in derailing the conversation.
Ivanka has had her brand completely dropped from Nordstrom's
Kellyanne Conway referred to the "Bowling Green Massacre", which doesn't exist. She made up a fake terrorist attack to justify the Muslim ban.
The White House has instructed females working there to "dress like women"
If I wasn't on my phone, I'd give you links.
And millions of people do it on their own dime yes. But dont be surprised if influential groups are given money.
Seriously, that doesn't make any sense.