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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    One thing I am noticing that disturbs. There is a very high propensity that when confronted with something underhanded or downright illegal that their chosen party has done; an overwhelming number of times the response is, "Well yeah that was bad, but look at what the other party is doing". Not only is simply blame shift, its a refusal to discuss these transgressions on their own merits. Worse things happening elsewhere does not excuse such actions.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    edited March 2017
    I'm not sure I disagree with the Obama administration's position on Syria. In strictly objective terms, Assad is a war criminal. His government opened fire on protestors, starting the civil war, and U.S. analysts have said the Assad regime has committed even more war crimes than the rebels.

    But I don't believe regime change was politically feasible given the situation at home.

    Also, the United States did not even contribute humanitarian aid to the rebels until 2 years after the war had already begun. The U.S. was never the driving force behind the rebellion.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,653
    Let's talk politics. I'll start. Everything sucks and there's no hope.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    edited March 2017
    The U.S. has been arming the rebels for awhile, and mostly covertly Obama ok'd shipments later on.

    Obama is fully guilty for Libya because he proactively circumvented Congress itself to attack another sovereign State with stated intention against their Government.

    Now for Syria, he shares responsibility still for the arming of rebels and encouraging a proxy war, I personally believe that he left the CIA un-checked (because they were arming them the entire time) and later on grudgingly publicly ok'd it.

    Perhaps he is of lesser fault for Syria then Libya, but still he is the commander-in-chief and he didn't stop it when it became known, and even ok'd it later on.

    In Terms of Trump, the fact is he just hasn't been in office for that long to warrant such ridiculous exaggerated claims against him.
    Most of his actions have been symbolic in nature, or early proposals that haven't even reached their final conclusion, or a early proposal Try to fix some existing problem.
    The only notable thing's he has done till now which we can fully credit is end the TPP.
    The only clear criticism i have of him is that he isn't pro-life and should stop pretending.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited March 2017

    Let's talk politics. I'll start. Everything sucks and there's no hope.

    Hope left office in January, now we got carnage.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    vanatos said:

    The U.S. has been arming the rebels for awhile, and mostly covertly Obama ok'd shipments later on.

    Obama is fully guilty for Libya because he proactively circumvented Congress itself to attack another sovereign State with stated intention against their Government.

    Now for Syria, he shares responsibility still for the arming of rebels and encouraging a proxy war, I personally believe that he left the CIA un-checked (because they were arming them the entire time) and later on grudgingly publicly ok'd it.

    Perhaps he is of lesser fault for Syria then Libya, but still he is the commander-in-chief and he didn't stop it when it became known, and even ok'd it later on.

    In Terms of Trump, the fact is he just hasn't been in office for that long to warrant such ridiculous exaggerated claims against him.
    Most of his actions have been symbolic in nature, or early proposals that haven't even reached their final conclusion, or a early proposal Try to fix some existing problem.
    The only notable thing's he has done till now which we can fully credit is end the TPP.
    The only clear criticism i have of him is that he isn't pro-life and should stop pretending.

    He didn't end the TPP because we were never in it. Ever. The TPP had been effectively dead for a year. All that ever happened was an agreement was reached that was never passed by Congress. I don't know how you end something that never officially existed. There wasn't a single candidate in the race supporting the TPP in their platform.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    edited March 2017


    He didn't end the TPP because we were never in it. Ever. The TPP had been effectively dead for a year. All that ever happened was an agreement was reached that was never passed by Congress. I don't know how you end something that never officially existed. There wasn't a single candidate in the race supporting the TPP in their platform.

    He signed an EO withdrawing U.S. from the TPP, which was actively being negotiated across multiple countries among the countries that signed it.

    It's great that it hadn't yet passed Congress, if i could rely on that alone that would be fantastic Except some Presidents have been known to circumvent Congress.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Yes, we withdrew from negotiations. The TPP as anyone understood it had been dead due to (mostly) activism on the left for almost a year. It was never going to to happen, even under Obama. He tried for fast-tracking, lost, saw the writing on the wall, and shelved it. Trump, at best, but the 10th nail in a coffin that already had nine of them nailed in.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    edited March 2017
    I'm glad Trump officially ended it for the U.S. instead of relying on Government and Corporations to hopefully not do anything in the future.

    Full Details of the Paris Airport Shooting.

    Hours before the airport attack, he wounded a police officer with a 9-millimeter lead-shot pistol during a traffic stop and later opened fire in a bar without hitting anyone, Francois Molins, the Paris prosecutor, said at an evening news conference.

    Belgacem arrived at Orly Airport, south of Paris, at 8:06 a.m. and walked to Hall A on the first floor of the southern terminal, Molins said.

    At 8.22 a.m., Molins said, Belgacem grabbed a female soldier who was patrolling the terminal from behind and put his gun to her head. He dragged her backward and ordered her two male colleagues to drop their weapons and raise their hands, telling them, “I am here to die for Allah.… In any case, there will be deaths.”

    As the woman, a reservist, fought back, Belgacem dragged her to the ground and tried to wrestle her assault rifle from her. The weapon passed back and forth between them. As he finally wrested the gun from the soldier, she dropped down, allowing her colleagues to shoot him dead.

    Police evacuated the airport to search for explosives, and air traffic was paralyzed for several hours.

    A total of 178 departures and arrivals were canceled out of 476 scheduled flights, and 34 flights were rerouted to other airports, according to airport authorities. The incident disrupted the travel plans of 5,000 to 6,000 passengers.

    Authorities said air traffic would not return to normal before Sunday morning.

    Molins told reporters that a container filled with petrol was found in the dead man’s backpack, along with a Koran, some cigarettes and a lighter.

    Belgacem’s father, brother and a cousin were taken in for questioning, Molins said.

    Belgacem had nine criminal convictions for drug dealing, armed robbery, theft and handling stolen goods. He had been in prison a total of four times, including several months last year, and was subject to a “control judiciare,” meaning he was barred from leaving the country.

    He was flagged to the intelligence services as a possible Islamist extremist after he was “radicalized in prison” from 2011 to 2012, Molins said.

    Before the airport attack, the prosecutor said, Belgacem was stopped for speeding in a northern suburb of Paris. Ordered to produce his identity papers, he pulled out his lead-shot pistol and fired at the officers, wounding one in the face.

    He then fled in his car and called an unidentified member of his family to say, “I’ve done something stupid,” the prosecutor said.

    Belgacem later showed up at the bar and hijacked another car at gunpoint before showing up at the airport, Molins said.

    France remains under a state of emergency after a series of deadly attacks over the last two years.

    http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-paris-airport-20170318-story.html#
    Post edited by vanatos on
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited March 2017
    That's his claim to fame ending the TPP, that was already ended, well besides his other claim to fame as president all the lying about crowd sizes, electoral victories, popular vote victories, obama tapping his wires, and all the others that I've lost count of.
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,938

    Let's talk politics. I'll start. Everything sucks and there's no hope.

    Good answer. I will say that a lil bit of chaos every now and again is a good thing. Everything adapts and reorganizes after a while.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Aside from his Executive Orders (the two major ones being struck down by the courts), he (and the GOP) Congress haven't done a thing besides make it easier for the mentally ill to buy guns. Their travel ban has been batted down due to Trump and his surrogate's OWN STATEMENTS on it in the media. A travel ban that was so "urgent for national security" that they waited over a month to come out with a new one. The health care bill, if it goes down, will fail because there are about 40 members of the House who think it doesn't kick ENOUGH people off their health insurance. And even if it gets through there, there are more than enough GOP Senators who value their own electoral hides enough that they simply aren't going to do it. The House doesn't matter at all in this kind of major legislation. Only the Senate does. I half suspect Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell WANT this repeal bill to fail. Not because they don't believe in it, but because they can read the consequences from a mile away.

    They have horrible intentions, but, as has been said many times, Trump is, above all, incompetent, as is everyone around him. Republican's entire persona is how much they despise government. It's not a surprise they suck at getting it to function.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    South Korea Expanded Japanese Fish Ban Over Fukushima Contamination
    https://nsnbc.me/2017/03/18/south-korea-expanded-japanese-fish-ban-over-fukushima-contamination/

    Tokyo fish market was amazing too.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    vanatos said:

    South Korea Expanded Japanese Fish Ban Over Fukushima Contamination
    https://nsnbc.me/2017/03/18/south-korea-expanded-japanese-fish-ban-over-fukushima-contamination/

    Tokyo fish market was amazing too.

    Alot of our problems and disagreements could be glossed over if we all lived right next to fresh seafood. At the very least I'd feel better.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    Cultural cuisine is probably the only universally positive interaction between cultures that Humans engage in.

    World would be alot different if religions was about making tasty food.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Those living near fresh seafood can look forward to encroaching shorelines due to global warming that Trump wants to accelerate
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    Yeah because the Netherlands and Southern Florida are underwater already! Oh, wait...
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    edited March 2017
    Nobody predicted Florida would be underwater in 2017. Sea levels take longer to rise.

    EDIT: Here we go: Sea levels are rising at about 0.13 inches per year these days, enough to swamp East Coast cities by the end of the century. As for Florida specifically, the chance of a storm surge in coastal areas is expected to double by 2030.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Court Blocks Most of North Carolina GOP’s Legislative Coup, Including Election-Board Power Grab

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/03/18/north_carolina_legislative_power_grab_blocked_in_court.html

    The judicial is the only branch of the government that is keeping us from being a banana republic
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    I'm old enough to have heard far too many doomsday predictions in my life. They're all about scaring people and getting money out of them. Whether it's buying their book, donating to their cause or giving them your vote doesn't matter. 20 years from now they'll forget all about this and be on to the next thing that's going to kill us all.

    By the way when they 1st started talking about global warming they did predict the Netherlands and Florida would be underwater by now. They always 'revise' their findings before their predictions can be wrong. If nothing's underwater by 2030 or 2050 they'll just say they have to revise the model (but we're still all going to die real soon!).It's no different than all the so called prophecies in the church I grew up in. Nobody remembers the ones that don't come true.
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177
    vanatos said:

    South Korea Expanded Japanese Fish Ban Over Fukushima Contamination
    https://nsnbc.me/2017/03/18/south-korea-expanded-japanese-fish-ban-over-fukushima-contamination/

    Tokyo fish market was amazing too.

    Worrying stuff, especially the parts about thyroid cancer and intimidation of the press. Shellfish are particularly likely to concentrate the radiation as well...

    Are people on the west coast of the USA still worried at all about contamination?

    With all the worries about the negative environmental impacts of nuclear power, fracking etc., in combination with escalating energy use, we're really going to have to work on energy efficiency. Self-driving cars etc...
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    Oh and don't forget we'll all be able to pat ourselves on the back for 'saving the planet' if we just give them what they want (our money). Of course there will never be any way of proving that the planet was saved because it can't be proven it was ever in jeopardy anyway. That totally doesn't sound like a scam to me...
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    edited March 2017
    Mantis37 said:


    Worrying stuff, especially the parts about thyroid cancer and intimidation of the press. Shellfish are particularly likely to concentrate the radiation as well...

    Are people on the west coast of the USA still worried at all about contamination?

    With all the worries about the negative environmental impacts of nuclear power, fracking etc., in combination with escalating energy use, we're really going to have to work on energy efficiency. Self-driving cars etc...

    Nowadays we simply have to pray that good ol' evolution will allow us to adapt to to changes in the environment.

    I am actually un-ironically expecting to hear Science discover a few chinese people in Shanghai developing extraordinarily resilient lungs.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    I think climate change is inevitable. I mean, at one point the poles were sub tropical and the midwest US was a shallow sea. Then things got a lot colder and never really "recovered". As for how much, who knows? Even in the worst case scenario, life is incredibly adaptable.Humanity has already shown itself to be incredibly clever and stubborn. I don't think Armageddin is gonna happen anytime soon.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Here's the basic problem with that line of reasoning: If humankind can adapt enough to handle climate change, why can't it adapt enough to limit climate change? All it would require is for us to transition to sources of energy, like nuclear power, that have already been invented.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    Here's the basic problem with that line of reasoning: If humankind can adapt enough to handle climate change, why can't it adapt enough to limit climate change? All it would require is for us to transition to sources of energy, like nuclear power, that have already been invented.

    Offhand I'd say because we have no idea how to stop climate change. 10,000 years ago most of North America was under glaciers. Since then there's been enough time for all kinds of life to appear and disappear. I don't buy this idea that climate change is our fault to begin with.

    If alternative energy is found that's all well and good. Coal and oil are dirty so I won't miss them much. It would also be good not to have to go digging and drilling and tearing things up. Just don't tell me we 'have to' or somehow the planet will be irreparably harmed in some way.

    BTW: I do actually agree with you about nuclear power but the powers that be can't even agree on where to store the waste for pities sake!
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    The Netherlands actually would be underwater but they are better than good with dikes and reclaiming land from the sea.
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  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177

    The Netherlands actually would be underwater but they are better than good with dikes and reclaiming land from the sea.

    They say God made the world but the Dutch made the Netherlands.

    There's a rather sad documentary called There once was an island about people dealing with the effects of rising sea levels.


    http://www.thereoncewasanisland.com
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    The reason many people right now don't care about climate change is because they are able to be reasonably certain they'll be dead before any shit hits the fan. And maybe their kids will be dead too. But beyond that?? It's fairly easy to scoff at something when the greatest proof of it is going to occur after everyone debating here is in the ground.
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