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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
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  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2017
    I'll one up you:



    In trials, jurors are instructed that if a witness lies about incidental things, they are permitted to disregard everything that person says going forward. Trump's primary motto in life seems to be lying about incidental things. It's almost as if he prefers lying to telling the truth whenever presented the opportunity to do so.

    So I'll ask this: if anyone in your personal life, at your work, in your business dealings, lied to you as much, or as often, or about the littlest of things on such a frequent basis, as Donald Trump does, what would you do?? Would you keep loaning that family member money?? Would you keep believing your spouse wouldn't cheat on you anymore?? Would you trust that your co-worker had your back on an important project?? Would you enter into a business partnership with that person??

    Not to put too fine a point on it, but a good portion of this country is exhibiting the behavior a family with a abusive, alcoholic father. One day, everyone insists, Dad will quit drinking, Dad will love us. Hey, just last Thursday he came home sober and didn't hit Mom.

    But that day never comes. Because those people don't change. And neither do 70-year old men who are pathological liars.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    Sanctuary policies 'led to' brutal bathroom rape of 14-year-old schoolgirl
    Two illegal-alien teenagers who were placed in ninth-grade classes at Montgomery County Schools, Maryland, have been arrested and charged with the brutal rape of a 14-year-old girl, and at least one of the boys had a pending deportation order from ICE.

    The boys, identified as Henry Sanchez, 18, of Guatemala and Jose Montano, 17, of El Salvador, approached the young girl in the hallway near the gymnasium inside Rockville High School during school hours about 9 a.m. on Thursday.
    http://www.wnd.com/2017/03/sanctuary-policies-led-to-brutal-bathroom-rape-of-14-year-old-schoolgirl/
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited March 2017
    Gang Rape of Chicago Teen Was Watched Live by 40 People on Facebook, No One Called Cops Presumably no "illegal aliens" were involved.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/gang-sex-assault-chicago-teen-was-watched-live-40-people-n736616

    As a group undocumented immigrants account for less crimes than citizens. According to analysis of the 2010 census and the American Communities Survey done by the non-profit American Immigration Council, immigrants to the United States are significantly less likely than native-born citizens to be incarcerated.

    Undocumented immigrants had an incarceration rate of 1.7 percent, compared with 10.7 percent for native-born men without a high school diploma.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/illegal-immigrants-and-crime-how-big-a-problem-is-crime-committed-by-immigrants/
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    Jose O. Montano, 17, from El Salvador, and Henry E. Sanchez-Milian, 18, from Guatemala, were charged with first-degree rape and two counts of first-degree sexual offense after they allegedly attacked the girl at 9 a.m. last Thursday.

    “The victim was walking in a school hallway when she met two male students, identified as Montano and Sanchez. Montano asked the victim to walk with him and Sanchez. Montano asked the victim to engage in sexual intercourse. She refused,” Montgomery County Police said in a statement.

    “Montano asked the victim again and then forced her into a boy’s bathroom and then into a stall. Montano and Sanchez both raped the victim inside the bathroom stall.”

    Court records describe the merciless and brutal assault by both Montano and Sanchez, who allegedly raped the young girl multiple times, vaginally, orally and sodomized her, as they spoke to each other in Spanish. Blood and male fluids were recovered from the scene by a forensic expert, court records show.

    The victim knew just one of her alleged attackers, court record show.

    The incident is horrifying, devastating for the young girl, and “disturbing on so many levels,” said Jessica Vaughan, the director of policy studies for the Washington, D.C. based Center for Immigration Studies.

    She said the Obama administration, and its “disastrous handling” of the surge of illegal aliens arriving from Central America, is partially to blame, noting at least one, and possibly both of the youths were part of that surge.

    “The surge of Central American kids has become a significant problem in many of the school districts where they are allowed to resettle,” Vaughan said.

    Montgomery County has one of the “more notorious sanctuary policies”, Vaughan said, and the police deliberately do not cooperate with ICE.

    “The result is that many gang members and other thugs and miscreants are allowed to remain in the county in defiance of immigration laws and causing problems like this,” Vaughan said, noting that just this week the city of Rockville was considering adopting its own sanctuary policy.

    “Montgomery, like others that have absorbed a large number of the Central American youths, has experienced a noticeable uptick in violence that has been attributed to gangs like MS-13, and this has been especially acute in the high schools,” Vaughan said. “This is one of the worst case scenarios that was bound to happen, and it’s not an isolated case.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/20/maryland-girl-allegedly-raped-in-high-school-bathroom-by-two-teens-at-least-one-here-illegally.html
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited March 2017
    undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than citizens. Scapegoating a group of people is exactly what Hitler did.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2017
    There is a very simple reason the Trump Administration publishing a news list of ONLY crimes committed by illegal immigrants is so dangerous. Because it tars every non-white citizen and legal immigrant of the same ethnicity with the same brush used on the accuser. Barring psychic powers, no one can tell a legal Latino or African immigrant from an undocumented one on sight. When such an action is taken from the highest levels of government, it puts under suspicion ANYONE who isn't white. And it does so by design. And at that point, it's "papers please" for anyone who isn't part of the dominant demographic group.

    By the way, who the hell is defending these rapists in your mind?? Deport them, put them in jail, throw the book at them. You won't find one person here or pretty much ANYWHERE who will disagree.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Dear President Obama

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  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    Rotherham abuse scandal probe implicates 91 officers
    The Independent Police Complaints Commission said today that their probe into the scandal - which includes allegations of police corruption and failures to act on reports of abuse - is the second largest operation the IPCC has ever undertaken, dwarfed only by its inquiry into the same force over the Hillsborough disaster.

    Of the 91 officers that have been identified from the 211 allegations made, 30 have been placed under notice they are subject to investigation after the IPCC said complaints against them indicated potential misconduct and/or criminal activity may have occurred.

    It is the first IPCC update on the progress of the probe since March 2016, when it was revealed 66 officers had been identified.

    There are still 120 outstanding allegations relating to officers who are yet to be identified, with 53 separate investigations taking place as part of the operation.

    Two-and-a-half-years after Professor Alexis Jay’s report revealed more than 1,400 children had been victims of sexual exploitation in the town, largely at the hands of men from the Pakistani community, the IPCC says it has already concluded nine investigations into specific allegations against police officers - all of which found there was “no case to answer”.

    http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/rotherham-abuse-scandal-probe-implicates-91-officers-1-8428773
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Republicans senators are like
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  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    Universities told they must protect freedom of speech
    Universities will be required to protect free speech across their campuses including inside the student union under plans being drawn up by the government.

    Jo Johnson, minister for higher education, has written to universities saying that they will be compelled to include a clear commitment to freedom of speech in their governance documents to counter the culture of censorship and so-called safe spaces.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/universities-told-they-must-protect-freedom-of-speech-fzqhx7vqt
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    In 2013, there was 62,034 accounts of rape were reported to law enforcement in the untied states according to the FBI
    That is 7 people an hour.

    How many of those 7 do you think are committed by illegal immigrants? You found one tragic incident that a media organization highlighted to point fingers at a broad spectrum of people to paint them all as villains.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    edited March 2017
    Actually it is currently one of the main news on all news channels which is why i posted it.

    Don't know why there are so many 'rebuttals' against a 'position' assumed of mine when my post has no position, rape victims aren't a number to me anyway.

    Perhaps focus on the post instead of suspicion.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    EU to threaten Britain with court action if Theresa May refuses to pay £50bn Brexit divorce bill
    Britain will be threatened with court action by the EU if it tries to walk away without paying a £50 billion “divorce bill”, leaked papers reveal.

    A draft copy of the EU’s negotiating strategy for the forthcoming Brexit talks discusses taking Britain to the International Court of Justice in The Hague.

    It quotes an official as saying that if Britain refuses to pay, “in that case it is, see you in The Hague!”

    The leaked document, obtained by the Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant, says the EU strategy will also insist that access to the single market will only be granted if freedom of movement remains.

    It came as a poll showed that Remain voters appear to be warming to the idea of Brexit, with more than half of them wanting an end to freedom of movement.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/21/remain-voters-warming-idea-brexit-poll-shows/
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    deltago said:

    In 2013, there was 62,034 accounts of rape were reported to law enforcement in the untied states according to the FBI
    That is 7 people an hour.

    How many of those 7 do you think are committed by illegal immigrants? You found one tragic incident that a media organization highlighted to point fingers at a broad spectrum of people to paint them all as villains.

    Agreed. Trump's VOICE crap highlights only crimes by immigrants and his policies have emboldened local police to highlight immigrant crimes while ignoring the more prevalent crimes that occur by citizens. VOICE is basically about justifying white supremacy as an official position of the Trump government.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Personally, I find statistics more convincing than anecdotal evidence. A statistic is worth a thousand anecdotes.

    Because a statistic literally is a thousand anecdotes.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    vanatos said:

    Actually it is currently one of the main news on all news channels which is why i posted it.

    Don't know why there are so many 'rebuttals' against a 'position' assumed of mine when my post has no position, rape victims aren't a number to me anyway.

    Perhaps focus on the post instead of suspicion.

    Nearly all articles posted by people in this thread are extensions of a specific point of view or position trying to be conveyed by the poster, including most of yours. It's hardly irrational for anyone to try discern your position on an issue based on the tenor of the article, it's source, or previous posts. That you didn't add a personal addendum to these specific articles doesn't innoculate you from a perfectly reasonable assumption as to the message trying to be conveyed by posting it.
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177
    edited March 2017
    If you're going to post lots of news stories then may I suggest posting links from media sources from different ends of the 'bias' spectrum about the same topic? The Yorkshire Post & the Telegraph are to the right of the UK Spectrum, so something from the Guardian or the Mirror on the same topic could produce some interesting debate. Our choice of sources, and what we choose to post, says something as well as what we say about them.... Taking no position is actually really difficult I feel!

    On a meta note I wonder if there's any argument for splitting this thread into US/ non-US news though, any other topic seems likely to get buried by the Trump administration's *not drowing but waving* stories. Probably just more work for the moderators though...
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    edited March 2017
    I don't engage in political partisanship in news stories, the story stands on its own evidence.

    Furthermore it was already made clear in this thread not to do so which people disregard because they prefer certain channels that cater to their interests.

    I liberally post from all the mainstream news sources, so in fact if there is a person here that should complain about others, It would be me.

    Most people just use that as an excuse when they don't like a story, If people want to live in their safe space thats their problem.


    Personally, I find statistics more convincing than anecdotal evidence. A statistic is worth a thousand anecdotes.

    Because a statistic literally is a thousand anecdotes.

    That requires statistics to be accurate in the first place.
    However if statistics is important to you, then yes immigrants and illegal immigrants can often be over-represented in crime and in jail, and the breakdown more accurately shows it is due to cultural, environment and socio-economics.

    Sweden jails have vast over-representation by immigrants, because the general population is homogenous in culture and generally socio-economically ok.

    America is a mixed bag, primarily because of african-american weight in prison and in crime, as well as Hispanics recently, and more varying socio-economic levels all over the place.
    Post edited by vanatos on
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    More lies, remember this:


    Well now
    " Cementing her role as a powerful White House influence, Ivanka Trump is working out of a West Wing office" also in the process of obtaining a highest level security clearance.
    http://nypost.com/2017/03/20/ivanka-trump-to-join-white-house-staff/

    She will "voluntarily" follow ethics rules that she can presumably unvoluntarily follow if she decides she wants to. And she's placed her assets in trust - that her close relatives run.

    Also she's being sued for unfair competition because she has exploited “the power and prestige of the White House for personal gain.”
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/03/21/as-ivanka-trumps-white-house-role-expands-her-company-is-sued-for-unfair-competition/

    This is the most personally corrupt administration ever starting from not selling his businesses or putting them in a blind trust to nepotism.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    edited March 2017
    Europe to help Libya as migrant crisis worsens
    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170321-europe-to-help-libya-as-migrant-crisis-worsens/

    Obama and Hillary Destabilizing Libya and Syria certainly didn't help the migrant crisis.
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177

    Personally, I find statistics more convincing than anecdotal evidence. A statistic is worth a thousand anecdotes.

    Because a statistic literally is a thousand anecdotes.

    I find that qualitative and quantitative evidence can complement each other very well, but it generally has to be done sequentially. So if I want to identify a problem I may first get some numbers, and use them to refine what sort of topics are addressed in individual interviews / long responses to self-evaluation questions or whatever. Or that process could go in reverse for making up a questionnaire.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    vanatos said:

    I don't engage in political partisanship in news stories, the story stands on its own evidence.

    That's your own folly then if you can not discern biased in a news article. Such as having a quote like this:

    “The surge of Central American kids has become a significant problem in many of the school districts where they are allowed to resettle,” Vaughan said.

    If you don't know, CIS main goal is to provide "reliable information about the social, economic, environmental, security, and fiscal consequences of legal and illegal immigration into the United States."

    That is hardly impartial journalism, as this group isn't unbiased towards immigrants and their cost on society. It is especially misleading when they name their organization with a name like "Centre of Immigration Studies," which sounds neutral and impartial but is far from.

    The story as presented, uses a biased "expert," with no quotes from law enforcement, school officials, parents, social workers, or lawyers who would have given better insight into the story of an alleged rape.

    So if you can not see the partisanship within the articles that you are posting and the lack of evidence they actually provide, well, that is on you.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    edited March 2017
    deltago said:


    That's your own folly then if you can not discern biased in a news article.

    Oh i can see partisanship in news, CNN is well known as the Clinton News Network.

    I don't reject anything out of hand because of it, because all news is biased, else you would just reject everything.

    Your folly was assuming i did.
    deltago said:


    If you don't know, CIS main goal is to provide "reliable information about the social, economic, environmental, security, and fiscal consequences of legal and illegal immigration into the United States."

    That is hardly impartial journalism, as this group isn't unbiased towards immigrants and their cost on society. It is especially misleading when they name their organization with a name like "Centre of Immigration Studies," which sounds neutral and impartial but is far from.

    There are a number of human-rights organization, environmental organizations, FBI, CIA, police that states they focus on some aspect of something, or the cost of something.

    Such criticism is pretty flat, virtually every organization that monitors anything is equally biased.

    Address the content.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876

    North Korea missile test ends in failure as projectile "explodes within seconds" of launch

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/north-korea-fires-several-missiles-10072049

    This guy just wants to stir trouble up.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    vanatos said:

    deltago said:


    That's your own folly then if you can not discern biased in a news article.

    Oh i can see partisanship in news, CNN is well known as the Clinton News Network.

    I don't reject anything out of hand because of it, because all news is biased, else you would just reject everything.

    Your folly was assuming i did.
    deltago said:


    If you don't know, CIS main goal is to provide "reliable information about the social, economic, environmental, security, and fiscal consequences of legal and illegal immigration into the United States."

    That is hardly impartial journalism, as this group isn't unbiased towards immigrants and their cost on society. It is especially misleading when they name their organization with a name like "Centre of Immigration Studies," which sounds neutral and impartial but is far from.

    There are a number of human-rights organization, environmental organizations, FBI, CIA, police that states they focus on some aspect of something, or the cost of something.

    Such criticism is pretty flat, virtually every organization that monitors anything is equally biased.

    Address the content.
    UH no. I did address the content.

    This organization that was quoted, by that news organization clearly states on its webpage, that it is biased when it comes to immigration as they only look at the consequences of immigration on society and not the positives that immigration might provide.

    It being the ONLY thing quoted in the entire article about an alleged rape that happened on a school's property really doesn't address any issues I am having with what had transpired, and is only passing the blame to a group of people who aren't to blame for this incident.

    The article only quoted one biased organization and left all other questions regarding the incident alone.
    No quotes from the investigation, no quotes about the school and how it is handling the safety of its students after this incident. No quotes from police on how they plan to address this very serious safety issue. Nothing, especially when there are very similar events to something that happened 3 years ago in the same state.


    Just girl was raped *alleged*, illegal immigrants to blame. That isn't news, that is spin.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    edited March 2017
    It is as biased as an environmental organization focusing on the cost of pollution.

    Your logic does not make sense.
    deltago said:


    Just girl was raped *alleged*, illegal immigrants to blame.

    Ahh i see it is 'alleged' because it happens to be illegal immigrants and the issue for you is purely political.

    Usually society is supposed to care about victims, like the one who was raped.

    Interesting how politics discards the victim when convenient and they become quite secondary.
    Post edited by vanatos on
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177
    These days it's quite common for teachers to have lessons in which they encourage students to question news sources, and state which ones they rely on and why. Critical thinking with regard to sources is becoming part of internet literacy. Saying that all organisations which monitor information are equally biased is less accurate for me than saying that they are differently biased, sometimes unconsciously. We can account for such biases in our evaluation of news, and understand how & why content producers desseminate information which can differ radically in content and presentation from the original sources. Of course we can't do this all the time, but I think it's a valuable exercise to compare & contrast news from different sources from time to time.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876

    WASHINGTON — Rockville High School parents and residents in Maryland remain angry and unsatisfied after meeting with school officials and Montgomery County police Tuesday night, several days after the rape of a 14-year-old girl in a school bathroom.

    The meeting was closed to media, but afterward, those who attended shared their concerns with reporters.

    “I’m not satisfied,” said Elizabeth Plum, who doesn’t have a child in the school. She said that while the session was “pretty sedate,” she took issue with some of the answers from school officials.

    “They were asked specifically whether they would admit students with criminal records and the answer is ‘yes.’ And would they be monitored? The answer is well, if they had a probation officer, maybe, or if they had an ankle bracelet, maybe,” she said.

    “So in other words, the school apparently doesn’t take any responsibility, even if they know the student has a criminal record.”

    Officials highlighted school security during Tuesday night’s meeting, Plum said, which included a five-person security team and around 105 cameras. But she said she learned those cameras were not monitored on a live basis. Camera footage, however, was reviewed after the rape was reported.

    “Obviously, that doesn’t help the child who was raped,” she said.

    A parent who attended the meeting has a child who will attend the school next year. She was also worried about school safety, calling for stricter monitoring of students who may have entered the country illegally or were considerably older than their peers.

    The superintendent said earlier that students’ immigration statuses are not known to schools and that information was not collected.

    Still, Debbie, who refused to give her last name, said, “I think it’s pretty important to know the whole demographics of your child’s community.”

    “I think we all have a right to know who’s living among us, who our kids are spending 40 hours a week with every day,” she added.
    A small group of people stood across the school, protesting during the meeting. Their concern for school safety was anchored by their views on immigration.

    Sam Fenati, a Montgomery County resident who doesn’t have a child in the school, but will have grandchildren in the school system said, “This little girl’s rape is the fruition of liberal policy in this county.”

    He wants to see local politicians cooperate with ICE more by turning over people who have entered the country illegally. He described himself as a “second-generation American,” saying that his relatives came from Italy.

    “I’m not against immigrants,” he said. “But we came in legally.”

    Montgomery County officials said, earlier this week, that they would cooperate fully with ICE concerning this case. However, ICE lists the county among jurisdictions nationwide that limit cooperation with the agency.

    Amy Waychoff, who has a student currently in the county school system and two who have graduated, said, “I think if this was happening at one of my daughters’ schools, I would take them out and start home-schooling them.”

    She held signs that read “Safety not Sanctuary” and “Keep Maryland Safe,” adding: “We don’t have to have a welcome mat in Maryland and Montgomery County for everybody.”

    http://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2017/03/concerns-rattle-montgomery-co-parents-residents-school-rape/
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    This thread is becoming *post random news articles without contributing to discussion* rather than *a discussion about politics*.
This discussion has been closed.