I don't disagree with you there. I think I mentioned a long way back in this thread that I would not have voted for Trump if Bernie had won the primary. I would have thrown my vote away on the Libertarian. I absolutely cannot stand Hillary. I don't even know why really, she just viscerally repels me...
Common knowledge Trump was under surveillance by the CIA? What .. No, that's not common knowledge how do you come up with these conspiracy theories?
Let's think this through
If anything the CIA would not be monitoring US citizens in the USA that would be the FBI. So if Trump was caught red-handed talking to the Russians by the CIA then it would be because he was talking to someone the CIA was tracking. Like a Russian criminal or foreign intelligence agent.
Its been in the news for quite awhile front and centre that Trump was being surveilled by the CIA during the elections and by the intelligence agencies in general.
We've had pages about it in this thread so not sure how you missed that.
And yes, the CIA do monitor U.S. citizens lol. The intelligence agencies have been running amok for a long time. Not even the FBI is immune to abuse, I mean Martin Luther King was under FBI surveillance for political reasons.
Common knowledge Trump was under surveillance by the CIA? What .. No, that's not common knowledge how do you come up with these conspiracy theories?
Let's think this through
If anything the CIA would not be monitoring US citizens in the USA that would be the FBI. So if Trump was caught red-handed talking to the Russians by the CIA then it would be because he was talking to someone the CIA was tracking. Like a Russian criminal or foreign intelligence agent.
Its been in the news for quite awhile front and centre that Trump was being surveilled by the CIA during the elections and by the intelligence agencies in general.
We've had pages about it in this thread so not sure how you missed that.
And yes, the CIA do monitor U.S. citizens lol. The intelligence agencies have been running amok for a long time.
That isn't 'necessarily' a bad thing. I do believe you have to get down and dirty with the bad guys if you really want to stop them. Unless you live in fantasy land you know there's a trade-off between liberty and security. We just have to make sure the abuses don't go unpunished.
That isn't 'necessarily' a bad thing. I do believe you have to get down and dirty with the bad guys if you really want to stop them. Unless you live in fantasy land you know there's a trade-off between liberty and security. We just have to make sure the abuses don't go unpunished.
True.
Of all the agencies, I have the most respect for the FBI because they actually do a half-decent job in their area of jurisdiction.
The CIA though? Not a fan honestly with all the toppling of Governments.
The CIA is a special case. They have been guilty of abuses for sure but for all their faults they are our eyes and ears on the situations outside of our borders. If any of we regular citizens were privy to all the information they have it would probably cause us to buy a cabin in the forests of Montana and guard it with closets full of M-16s...
He has no impulse control, he doesn't even have control of his own White House. He is nothing but a wannabe Autocratic thug.
By the way, I'm sure at least two or three people will call this article fake news. Fine. Have at it. Just know that it has over 30 sources. Believe what you want.
On the direct heels of that is the Wall Street Journal:
This is way, way worse than anyone was even contemplating before, and the WSJ piece confirms the direction of the investigation most recently, and what I predicted EXACTLY months ago. Trump's business dealings in Russia. Follow the money. Always follow the money.
CNN also reported Sarah Flores of the DOJ said such stories were false.
I have no problem. You have a FOX News shill, and the DOJ is lying their ass off. The head of the DOJ, Jeff Sessions, just inserted himself directly into an issue he had said he had recused himself from. The Department of Justice under Jeff Sessions is totally and utterly compromised, and has no credibility whatsoever. The Administration, after months of blatant, PROVABLE lies, has no credibility left to bank on.
So, my so-called "problem" is immaterial. This pattern has been going on for months. Keep dismissing it, keep using your Reddit meme of "Muh Russia". History will tell the tale.
I was wrong. I suspected that Trump fired Comey simply because he had somebody else in mind for the position, somebody who would be more pliant. But the administration is still considering whom to select to replace Comey--they don't have a handpicked successor.
Maybe one or more of Trump's associates was colluding with Russia. It would explain Comey's firing.
I'm on my 32nd day of protest. I've been here every day, resisting. I've been unemployed for two months because of the situation this country is in. The firm I used to work for left Venezuela. I have two children. Now I do "bachaqueo" [buying and selling goods on the black market] to feed them. We're here to put an end to the dictatorship in Venezuela, so that our children can grow up in a free Venezuela! The people of Venezuela have been supporting us, they bring us food and water. They know we're not going to abandon them, we're the resistance of Caracas, we're the resistance of Venezuela! I carry a homemade shield on which I've painted the map of Venezuela. I wear a mask because the Sebin [Venezuelan intelligence service] is looking for us. The police come to search our homes and take us away if they find us. They've already taken some of my friends. A few friends have been killed. More than 30 people have been killed in 35 days of protests. And we're fighting for them! -http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-39871694
The great Socialist experiment has been a complete failure over there.
I remember during the election when news story left and right described the FBI as angry against Comey over his handling of Hillary.
Current and former FBI officials, none of whom were willing or cleared to speak on the record, have described a chaotic internal climate that resulted from outrage over director James Comey’s July decision not to recommend an indictment over Clinton’s maintenance of a private email server on which classified information transited. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/03/fbi-leaks-hillary-clinton-james-comey-donald-trump
The left was and is angry with Comey for what happened with Hillary's emails. But that is superseded by the fact that he was at the head of an investigation into the sitting Administration, and was fired, and they have blatantly lied about why it was done. Of course they were going to bring Hillary into the reasoning, Trump can't exist without her or Obama for a foil.
I can't really stand Comey. But the facts were that Obama could not fire him, because it would look absolutely terrible. Hillary could not have fired him if she had won, because it would have looked even worse. It would have caused EXACTLY what is happening now, which is a total breakdown in trust in the Justice System. This is why FBI Directors are hired to 10 year terms. To avoid this kind of madness. Despite our seething anger at Comey, most knew he couldn't be fired. Beyond that, it was never in the realm of possibility. Obama didn't do it. Hillary wouldn't have (because Republicans would have started impeachment hearings before you could snap your fingers). Trump DID do it, and the reasons they are giving are falling apart at the seems because they are patently absurd.
This isn't about Hillary anymore, this isn't even about who is in charge of the White House anymore (because no matter what happens, that is going to be a Republican, though the framers could have never anticipated this kind of scenario). This is about stopping a megalomaniacal madman from destroying our system of government, however flawed it is.
Furthermore, in late reporting tonight: Trump said in his letter firing Comey that Comey had told him on 3 separate occasions that he wasn't under investigations. Sources close to Comey say this is, quote, "literally farcical". More importantly however, is that sources are also reporting that Rosenstein threatened to resign after the White House started casting him as the prime mover and shaker behind this ouster. If he has half the integrity everyone claims he does, he would do so now.
If conflict of interest is the issue, wouldn't you want Comey to recuse himself in the first place since he was appointed by Obama?
In light of that under the argument here, It's actually worse that he was kept on.
My personal thoughts about it are, again, superseded by the reasoning behind why FBI Directors get 10 year terms. Obama kept on Bush's pick Mueller for even LONGER than that (12 years). Comey is a lifelong Republican. He was yet another olive branch Obama gave away to Republicans that was slapped away.
It has long been my suspicion that one of the reasons Comey went public about the Clinton email issue late in the campaign (and why he did what he did in July) are because he has known SINCE last July that the day would be coming when it would be Donald Trump who he was investigating, and that the entire thing was done to make sure it didn't look like he was favoring one side.
To believe Rosenstein was behind the firing, you have to believe anything officially coming out of the White House. I'm sorry, but that ship has sailed. No doubt he WAS tasked with finding a narrative excuse for it, but that is not the same thing.
Again, this is bad. Probably much worse than anyone has even thought. And, again, Trump, by this action, has insured that his Administration will be engulfed in scandal until it is resolved. It will not go away. Now....maybe you are correct, and this is all a reality TV ploy designed by Trump for media attention and ratings. I think you are dead wrong. But time will tell what the story is here.
My personal thoughts about it are, again, superseded by the reasoning behind why FBI Directors get 10 year terms. Obama kept on Bush's pick Mueller for even LONGER than that (12 years). Comey is a lifelong Republican. He was yet another olive branch Obama gave away to Republicans that was slapped away.
It has long been my suspicion that one of the reasons Comey went public about the Clinton email issue late in the campaign (and why he did what he did in July) are because he has known SINCE last July that the day would be coming when it would be Donald Trump who he was investigating, and that the entire thing was done to make sure it didn't look like he was favoring one side.
The current structure in our Government is that the Attorney General actually is the boss of the director of the FBI.
And if the Boss recommends replacing the director, Not much that can be avoided with the current procedures in place.
It's not really the same as the Supreme Court.
If the Deputy Attorney General and Attorney General recommends the reasons why the Head of the FBI is unsuitable, There's not much recourse but for the President to remove the director, Because the alternative is the argument we should keep an incompetent director for political purposes.
My personal thoughts about it are, again, superseded by the reasoning behind why FBI Directors get 10 year terms. Obama kept on Bush's pick Mueller for even LONGER than that (12 years). Comey is a lifelong Republican. He was yet another olive branch Obama gave away to Republicans that was slapped away.
It has long been my suspicion that one of the reasons Comey went public about the Clinton email issue late in the campaign (and why he did what he did in July) are because he has known SINCE last July that the day would be coming when it would be Donald Trump who he was investigating, and that the entire thing was done to make sure it didn't look like he was favoring one side.
The current structure in our Government is that the Attorney General actually is the boss of the director of the FBI.
And if the Boss recommends replacing the director, Not much that can be avoided with the current procedures in place.
It's not really the same as the Supreme Court.
I, nor anyone, will deny that he has the POWER to do so. He does. But what we are talking about is what happens when someone with absolutely no scruples decides he is going to upend all historical political norms and start to use the power of the government in total and utter bad faith. This is a test of whether our system can stand up to a man like Donald Trump. That is going to be the defining narrative of his Presidency.
Again, this blows the whole narrative to smithereens. Now, you can CHOOSE to believe the White House over the overwhelming reporting being done by major national newspapers tonight. Fake news and all, yada yada yada. But I would advise against doing so.
I, nor anyone, will deny that he has the POWER to do so. He does. But what we are talking about is what happens when someone with absolutely no scruples decides he is going to upend all historical political norms and start to use the power of the government in total and utter bad faith. This is a test of whether our system can stand up to a man like Donald Trump. That is going to be the defining narrative of his Presidency.
In this case you would need to demonstrate the Deputy Attorney General (Rosenstein) and the Attorney General were incorrect in their assessment otherwise there's not much to complain about.
It would be difficult to say Trump did something wrong without showing why the AG's were wrong.
Again, this blows the whole narrative to smithereens. Now, you can CHOOSE to believe the White House over the overwhelming reporting being done by major national newspapers tonight. Fake news and all, yada yada yada. But I would advise against doing so.
Probably should wait until we have more then anonymous sources.
I, nor anyone, will deny that he has the POWER to do so. He does. But what we are talking about is what happens when someone with absolutely no scruples decides he is going to upend all historical political norms and start to use the power of the government in total and utter bad faith. This is a test of whether our system can stand up to a man like Donald Trump. That is going to be the defining narrative of his Presidency.
In this case you would need to demonstrate the Deputy Attorney General (Rosenstein) and the Attorney General were incorrect in their assessment otherwise there's not much to complain about.
It would be difficult to say Trump did something wrong without showing why the AG's were wrong.
Because they didn't ACTUALLY make the decision. Trump did. I understand if you want to believe that. That's fine. If you buy what the White House is selling you right now, then that makes sense. But.....see my above post. It's falling apart at the seems.
The White House is going to lose total control of this story (whatever is left) in the next 24-48 hours. Because Trump let his anger at the fact that he can't WILL away the Russia questions affect his judgment. It's possible all he had to do was keep his mouth shut and show some HINT of discipline in all this. He can't do it. He's incapable. He can't control himself. I've said from the beginning, if there is anything there, Trump is far too stupid to cover it up. And you don't even need to give him the rope to hang himself. He already has the rope. It's his planet-sized ego.
Because they didn't ACTUALLY make the decision. Trump did. I understand if you want to believe that. That's fine. If you buy what the White House is selling you right now, then that makes sense. But.....see my above post. It's falling apart at the seems.
Is the Deputy AG's entire reason's for why Comey is insuitable to be head of FBI irrelevant?
Because they didn't ACTUALLY make the decision. Trump did. I understand if you want to believe that. That's fine. If you buy what the White House is selling you right now, then that makes sense. But.....see my above post. It's falling apart at the seems.
Is the Deputy AG's entire reason's for why Comey is insuitable to be head of FBI irrelevant?
It is when the real reason is firing the head of an investigation into your campaign's ties to Russia merely hours before it is confirmed Grand Jury subpoenas are dropping all over the place in regards to Michael Flynn, yes.
I know you don't believe there is anything there. Again, fine. We shall see. But everyone needs to ask themselves what kind of person with nothing to hide goes to these lengths to put a lid on something they didn't do.
Was the CIA's statements that they found no evidence of collusion with Russia wrong?
Was the spy agencies network insufficiently good enough to find evidence? and was there any conclusion of collusion found in the un-masked and widely shared surveillance of his campaign amongst the Obama Government?
you can't make a claim of racial discrimination or even religious discrimination unless all nations of primarily that race or religion are included.
Not necessarily. You could also make the claim if "nations of primarily that race or religion are disproportionately included"--not necessarily all of them.
My opposition to the travel ban is more basic: Trump wanted to restrict travel from countries whose terrorists haven't attacked us (Syria), but not the countries that actually have (Saudi Arabia). On top of that, we have yet to suffer any terror attacks from refugees in general--since 9/11, terror attacks on the United States have only come from home-grown terrorists, people who were born here.
If we had suffered any attacks from the countries that Trump wants to restrict travel from, then we could debate whether it's constitutional or if it's worth the cost. But you can't make the country more secure by fighting a problem that does not exist.
You can't claim to be preventing Syrian refugee attacks when none have actually happened. When's the last time somebody died from a poisoned Skittle?
They are, however, either countries WE have been bombing in or have (had) rather cold relations with.
To summarize who was on the ban list: 1. Countries we've been bombing "terrorists" in: Syria, Yemen, Libya, Iraq 2. Countries we've got cold relations with: Iran, Somalia 3. Sudan is an outlier. Not entirely cold relations, not aware of any bombings we've done in there for counter-terrorism.
I put quotes around "terrorists" because it is quite clear that a LOT of those people we have bombed are not terrorists. I do not doubt there are plenty of pissed off people in those countries where we've killed civilians.
Furthermore, in late reporting tonight: Trump said in his letter firing Comey that Comey had told him on 3 separate occasions that he wasn't under investigations. Sources close to Comey say this is, quote, "literally farcical". More importantly however, is that sources are also reporting that Rosenstein threatened to resign after the White House started casting him as the prime mover and shaker behind this ouster. If he has half the integrity everyone claims he does, he would do so now.
Well, duh? I don't think you should tell the person you're investigating that you're investigating them.
I'm going to do something interesting here and defend Sean Spicer and the fact that he was basically hiding in the bushes from reporters. This decision was so ill-conceived, with so little thought, and kept so close to the vest by Trump, that it was INEVITABLE that the White House would have their story fall apart. I mean, forget messaging, Trump basically fired the FBI Director, dropped the bomb on his staff, and said "go defend me and make this go away". Which is an utterly impossible task. If I'm Sean Spicer, I'm praying Trump just fires me at this point. Why anyone would allow themselves in this man's orbit is beyond me. He will chew through his entire staff before he accepts one ounce of blame for anything.
I'm going to do something interesting here and defend Sean Spicer and the fact that he was basically hiding in the bushes from reporters. This decision was so ill-conceived, with so little thought, and kept so close to the vest by Trump, that it was INEVITABLE that the White House would have their story fall apart. I mean, forget messaging, Trump basically fired the FBI Director, dropped the bomb on his staff, and said "go defend me and make this go away". Which is an utterly impossible task. If I'm Sean Spicer, I'm praying Trump just fires me at this point. Why anyone would allow themselves in this man's orbit is beyond me. He will chew through his entire staff before he accepts one ounce of blame for anything.
Sure, it is not a pleasant situation to be in. However, there is a straightforward solution for that: he could simply quit his job. He choose to align himself with Trump by his own free will and had plenty of warning by now.
Comments
We've had pages about it in this thread so not sure how you missed that.
And yes, the CIA do monitor U.S. citizens lol.
The intelligence agencies have been running amok for a long time.
Not even the FBI is immune to abuse, I mean Martin Luther King was under FBI surveillance for political reasons.
Of all the agencies, I have the most respect for the FBI because they actually do a half-decent job in their area of jurisdiction.
The CIA though? Not a fan honestly with all the toppling of Governments.
I wish they chose a name that didn't sound like it comes from comic books i used to read
He has no impulse control, he doesn't even have control of his own White House. He is nothing but a wannabe Autocratic thug.
By the way, I'm sure at least two or three people will call this article fake news. Fine. Have at it. Just know that it has over 30 sources. Believe what you want.
On the direct heels of that is the Wall Street Journal:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/james-comey-had-requested-more-money-for-fbi-s-russia-investigation-before-being-fired-u-s-official-1494433061
This is way, way worse than anyone was even contemplating before, and the WSJ piece confirms the direction of the investigation most recently, and what I predicted EXACTLY months ago. Trump's business dealings in Russia. Follow the money. Always follow the money.
CNN also reported Sarah Flores of the DOJ said such stories were false.
So, my so-called "problem" is immaterial. This pattern has been going on for months. Keep dismissing it, keep using your Reddit meme of "Muh Russia". History will tell the tale.
Maybe one or more of Trump's associates was colluding with Russia. It would explain Comey's firing.
I'm on my 32nd day of protest. I've been here every day, resisting.
I've been unemployed for two months because of the situation this country is in. The firm I used to work for left Venezuela.
I have two children. Now I do "bachaqueo" [buying and selling goods on the black market] to feed them.
We're here to put an end to the dictatorship in Venezuela, so that our children can grow up in a free Venezuela!
The people of Venezuela have been supporting us, they bring us food and water. They know we're not going to abandon them, we're the resistance of Caracas, we're the resistance of Venezuela!
I carry a homemade shield on which I've painted the map of Venezuela. I wear a mask because the Sebin [Venezuelan intelligence service] is looking for us.
The police come to search our homes and take us away if they find us. They've already taken some of my friends.
A few friends have been killed. More than 30 people have been killed in 35 days of protests. And we're fighting for them!
-http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-39871694
The great Socialist experiment has been a complete failure over there.
I talked to a friend of mine in the FBI they are disgusted with Trump's firing of Comey. Comey had conviction and integrity, Trump not at all.
Current and former FBI officials, none of whom were willing or cleared to speak on the record, have described a chaotic internal climate that resulted from outrage over director James Comey’s July decision not to recommend an indictment over Clinton’s maintenance of a private email server on which classified information transited.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/03/fbi-leaks-hillary-clinton-james-comey-donald-trump
Sure is strange how politics flip flops things.
I can't really stand Comey. But the facts were that Obama could not fire him, because it would look absolutely terrible. Hillary could not have fired him if she had won, because it would have looked even worse. It would have caused EXACTLY what is happening now, which is a total breakdown in trust in the Justice System. This is why FBI Directors are hired to 10 year terms. To avoid this kind of madness. Despite our seething anger at Comey, most knew he couldn't be fired. Beyond that, it was never in the realm of possibility. Obama didn't do it. Hillary wouldn't have (because Republicans would have started impeachment hearings before you could snap your fingers). Trump DID do it, and the reasons they are giving are falling apart at the seems because they are patently absurd.
This isn't about Hillary anymore, this isn't even about who is in charge of the White House anymore (because no matter what happens, that is going to be a Republican, though the framers could have never anticipated this kind of scenario). This is about stopping a megalomaniacal madman from destroying our system of government, however flawed it is.
Furthermore, in late reporting tonight: Trump said in his letter firing Comey that Comey had told him on 3 separate occasions that he wasn't under investigations. Sources close to Comey say this is, quote, "literally farcical". More importantly however, is that sources are also reporting that Rosenstein threatened to resign after the White House started casting him as the prime mover and shaker behind this ouster. If he has half the integrity everyone claims he does, he would do so now.
In light of that under the argument here, It's actually worse that he was kept on the investigation.
And it was Rosenstein that recommended the reasons for the removal. Not Trump.
Something conveniently disregarded.
It has long been my suspicion that one of the reasons Comey went public about the Clinton email issue late in the campaign (and why he did what he did in July) are because he has known SINCE last July that the day would be coming when it would be Donald Trump who he was investigating, and that the entire thing was done to make sure it didn't look like he was favoring one side.
To believe Rosenstein was behind the firing, you have to believe anything officially coming out of the White House. I'm sorry, but that ship has sailed. No doubt he WAS tasked with finding a narrative excuse for it, but that is not the same thing.
Again, this is bad. Probably much worse than anyone has even thought. And, again, Trump, by this action, has insured that his Administration will be engulfed in scandal until it is resolved. It will not go away. Now....maybe you are correct, and this is all a reality TV ploy designed by Trump for media attention and ratings. I think you are dead wrong. But time will tell what the story is here.
And if the Boss recommends replacing the director, Not much that can be avoided with the current procedures in place.
It's not really the same as the Supreme Court.
If the Deputy Attorney General and Attorney General recommends the reasons why the Head of the FBI is unsuitable, There's not much recourse but for the President to remove the director, Because the alternative is the argument we should keep an incompetent director for political purposes.
https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/doj/pages/attachments/2015/04/27/doj_june_2015_2.pdf
Again, this blows the whole narrative to smithereens. Now, you can CHOOSE to believe the White House over the overwhelming reporting being done by major national newspapers tonight. Fake news and all, yada yada yada. But I would advise against doing so.
It would be difficult to say Trump did something wrong without showing why the AG's were wrong. Probably should wait until we have more then anonymous sources.
The White House is going to lose total control of this story (whatever is left) in the next 24-48 hours. Because Trump let his anger at the fact that he can't WILL away the Russia questions affect his judgment. It's possible all he had to do was keep his mouth shut and show some HINT of discipline in all this. He can't do it. He's incapable. He can't control himself. I've said from the beginning, if there is anything there, Trump is far too stupid to cover it up. And you don't even need to give him the rope to hang himself. He already has the rope. It's his planet-sized ego.
I know you don't believe there is anything there. Again, fine. We shall see. But everyone needs to ask themselves what kind of person with nothing to hide goes to these lengths to put a lid on something they didn't do.
Was the spy agencies network insufficiently good enough to find evidence? and was there any conclusion of collusion found in the un-masked and widely shared surveillance of his campaign amongst the Obama Government?
To summarize who was on the ban list:
1. Countries we've been bombing "terrorists" in: Syria, Yemen, Libya, Iraq
2. Countries we've got cold relations with: Iran, Somalia
3. Sudan is an outlier. Not entirely cold relations, not aware of any bombings we've done in there for counter-terrorism.
I put quotes around "terrorists" because it is quite clear that a LOT of those people we have bombed are not terrorists. I do not doubt there are plenty of pissed off people in those countries where we've killed civilians.
How many people do they know? How many people are on this board? Well, duh? I don't think you should tell the person you're investigating that you're investigating them.