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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    In the meantime, North Korea continues to launch more test missiles, and at this point, it almost seems like they are poking Trump with a stick. And I can't think of a person less qualified or prepared to deal with an issue of this magnitude than a President who can't go two days without going on a Twitter rampage.

    With everything that has happened with Trump, it's easy to forget the fact that he hasn't faced anything CLOSE to a real crisis yet, and when he does......oh boy, look out. Barack Obama proved that he had what it took to be in the job when he green-lighted a VERY risky raid that took out Osama Bin Laden. If that mission had failed (like the operation Carter gave the go ahead for to rescue the Iran hostages), it would have meant the effective end of his Presidency.
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,077
    I've just watched some interviews with this Scaramucci guy, and I gotta say - he is the most hilarious version of Joe Pesci from "Goodfellas" I have ever seen.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    Balrog99 said:

    @DreadKhan
    @Mathsorcerer

    Unfortunately, I think both of you are partially right. You do have some control over your destiny but certainly things beyond your control can change circumstances in a hurry. We don't, however, get to choose what race or sex we are born with. Trying to make somebody feel guilty about either is just not productive. How you as an individual treat those less fortunate (or even those more fortunate) than yourself is the key factor in what kind of person you are.

    Having said that, no matter what cards you're dealt you'll have more success in life if you have a good work ethic, a sense of gratitude and a positive attitude. I think it's a lot harder to have those attributes when you're dealt a crappy hand in life, but that doesn't make it any less true...

    I always do a double-take when I agree with @Balrog99, "
    So do my children!
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited July 2017

    deltago said:

    51-49 hilarious! Failed.

    This was some seriously compelling political theater. However, to millions, it wasn't a game. There was serious anxiety all over this country tonight leading up to this vote. Mitch McConnell is on the verge of crying, and Trump's tweets tomorrow morning will be....quite interesting to see.
    prediction: tomorrow trump announces charges against hillary clinton and obama and declares war against north korea and iran. And announces a new arm of the military the religious police while he's at it.
    The days not over but I was kind of close on this joking prediction. Fox headline is GOP calling for special prosecutor for Clinton, Comey and Lynch (indirectly Obama's administraton). And north Korea inserted itself into things by launching a missle. Neither directly Trump except probably the special prosecutor hail mary.

    All that's missing is Trump announcing the mandatory christianization of the USA.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited July 2017
    Ummm....ok, wow. Trump is in Long Island, railing against the supposed epidemic of gang violence there. First of all, there were 45 murders total in Long Island in 2015, down from 80 in 2010. The gang he has been talking about the last few days was declared an international terrorist organization by the Obama Administration in 2012. But, more importantly, Trump, in front of a crowd of police, just encouraged them to be tougher and rough up suspects when they are caught. The President of the United States us literally advocating for police brutality in front of a crowd of law enforcement officers. And a sizable portion of them cheered. Folks, this is a TEXTBOOK example of how fascism takes hold. This is frightening. This does not end well. This does not end well at all. Donald Trump is like a hose of gasoline poured onto the fire of everyone's worst emotions. He is like a conduit for the base id of the country. A wounded animal, as many know, can be a very dangerous thing. The more defeats Trump suffers, the more the Mueller probe closes in on him, the worse this will get. He is causing a total collapse of the civic culture of this country. We have a serious problem here. Be advised that there is NO bottom to this barrel.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Balrog99 said:

    @DreadKhan
    @Mathsorcerer

    Unfortunately, I think both of you are partially right. You do have some control over your destiny but certainly things beyond your control can change circumstances in a hurry. We don't, however, get to choose what race or sex we are born with. Trying to make somebody feel guilty about either is just not productive. How you as an individual treat those less fortunate (or even those more fortunate) than yourself is the key factor in what kind of person you are.

    Having said that, no matter what cards you're dealt you'll have more success in life if you have a good work ethic, a sense of gratitude and a positive attitude. I think it's a lot harder to have those attributes when you're dealt a crappy hand in life, but that doesn't make it any less true...

    That would depend how you define "success". My work ethic boils down to: "do as little work as possible". And I am a lot happier than my much more hard working friends.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited July 2017
    Seems the Mooch has won the West Wing Civil War. Reince is out. Trump, in about 7 months, has now replaced his: National Security Adviser, Communications Director, his Chief of Staff, has fired the head of the FBI, and is angling to take down his own Attorney General. Trump will continue to run through staff like most people go through socks. If you work for this man, he will destroy your reputation, then use you as a human shield to deflect bad news cycles, and sacrifice you at the altar of 24 hour cable news. No one with any self-respect would even THINK about working for this man.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited July 2017

    Seems the Mooch has won the West Wing Civil War. Reince is out. Trump, in about 7 months, has now replaced his: National Security Adviser, Communications Director, his Chief of Staff, has fired the head of the FBI, and is angling to take down his own Attorney General. Trump will continue to run through staff like most people go through socks. If you work for this man, he will destroy your reputation, then use you as a human shield to deflect bad news cycles, and sacrifice you at the altar of 24 hour cable news. No one with any self-respect would even THINK about working for this man.

    He demands loyalty but he'll throw you under the bus. This guy has no integrity. That being said, they guys he picks are usually the worst so seeing them go it feels wrong to feel bad for them. Also, they knew who they signed up with. Hopefully Bannon's next I guess. Sessions is awful too but he doesn't deserve to be fired so Trump can appoint a stooge to interfere with the Russia investigation.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited July 2017
    Artona said:

    I've just watched some interviews with this Scaramucci guy, and I gotta say - he is the most hilarious version of Joe Pesci from "Goodfellas" I have ever seen.

    I'm convinced this whole Sopranos vibe from Scaramucci is a total act that he and Trump think plays well on television. That's why his interviews with the New Yorker and CNN were so over the top. Based on everything I've heard and read from people who knew him before this, this isn't how he usually acts. But then again, what do I know?? I'm not Steve Bannon and I don't suck my own c**k.

    I'm pretty sure that line is now my new favorite phrase in the entire world.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    So far the people getting the boot are the ones that were brought in after Trump secured the nomination.

    He is blaming the RNC for the short comings and is now attempting to do it his own way, with his own people, which, is probably going to be disastrous.

    Although if you are looking for a heart breaking distraction to all this drama there are these two incidents:

    Two year old fended for himself for 10 days after his mother was murdered

    Marine dog with 3 tours in Afghanistan given a farewell parade before being put down for cancer
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    This is kind of cool and scary. Don't trust what you see in the future expect faked video.

    Synthesizing Obama: Learning Lip Sync from Audio
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yq67CjDqvw
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    Fardragon said:

    Balrog99 said:

    @DreadKhan
    @Mathsorcerer

    Unfortunately, I think both of you are partially right. You do have some control over your destiny but certainly things beyond your control can change circumstances in a hurry. We don't, however, get to choose what race or sex we are born with. Trying to make somebody feel guilty about either is just not productive. How you as an individual treat those less fortunate (or even those more fortunate) than yourself is the key factor in what kind of person you are.

    Having said that, no matter what cards you're dealt you'll have more success in life if you have a good work ethic, a sense of gratitude and a positive attitude. I think it's a lot harder to have those attributes when you're dealt a crappy hand in life, but that doesn't make it any less true...

    That would depend how you define "success". My work ethic boils down to: "do as little work as possible". And I am a lot happier than my much more hard working friends.
    I have no problem with that as long as you don't envy what your more hard working friends have and expect them to make up the difference for you.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Balrog99 said:

    Fardragon said:

    Balrog99 said:

    @DreadKhan
    @Mathsorcerer

    Unfortunately, I think both of you are partially right. You do have some control over your destiny but certainly things beyond your control can change circumstances in a hurry. We don't, however, get to choose what race or sex we are born with. Trying to make somebody feel guilty about either is just not productive. How you as an individual treat those less fortunate (or even those more fortunate) than yourself is the key factor in what kind of person you are.

    Having said that, no matter what cards you're dealt you'll have more success in life if you have a good work ethic, a sense of gratitude and a positive attitude. I think it's a lot harder to have those attributes when you're dealt a crappy hand in life, but that doesn't make it any less true...

    That would depend how you define "success". My work ethic boils down to: "do as little work as possible". And I am a lot happier than my much more hard working friends.
    I have no problem with that as long as you don't envy what your more hard working friends have and expect them to make up the difference for you.
    That's all good. On this topic, what I find disturbing is the glorification or wealth or the wealthy and the demonization of the poor. The assumption that rich people worked harder or are smarter tougher or something is often wrong.

    Wealth or poverty is often an accident of birth. Your mileage may very on your life regardless of how hard you work based on if you are born in one country or another. Looking further than that: were you born with disabilities or diseases? Will you be exceptionally predisposed to be good at math? Will you be fair skinned or dark skinned? Short or tall? Were your parents rich or poor? Educated or not? Religious or not? Is the government of the country you are born into corrupt or supportive to your situation?

    Will you be able to succeed? Some factors it may be in your power to control, some factors will not be.

    A CEO earning 300 times the average worker is ridiculous, the factory worker often works harder than the CEO. There can be times in an established company that things would be better if CEO does not do anything to interfere. There can be times a CEO makes the tough call for the company and steers the company the right way. Is it worth paying one guy hundreds or times the value of the average worker or is it more worthwhile to pay hundreds of workers more money and they'll reward the company that way?

    The American dream - work hard get ahead is less true today than it has been in the past due to a few families controlling massive amounts of wealth. The playing field is very rigged. It's not impossible, just less true than in say the 1950s. Millenials facing crushing student debt when their grandparents could go to college for much less.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    You're kidding right? When was this mythical time when a few families didn't control the wealth? Back when 99% of people were farmers? Unless a shitload of regular people get together for the same goal, which is difficult at best, how do you propose to start new businesses? The government? Unfortunately, I don't see a viable alternative to the system we have. If it's torn down I don't think I'd like to see what replaces it. Don't think for a second that old money doesn't still control Europe as supposedly liberal as they pretend to be...
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited July 2017
    Balrog99 said:

    You're kidding right? When was this mythical time when a few families didn't control the wealth? Back when 99% of people were farmers? Unless a shitload of regular people get together for the same goal, which is difficult at best, how do you propose to start new businesses? The government? Unfortunately, I don't see a viable alternative to the system we have. If it's torn down I don't think I'd like to see what replaces it. Don't think for a second that old money doesn't still control Europe as supposedly liberal as they pretend to be...

    There have been wealthy families sure, but it's much worse now.

    A new report from the McKinsey Global Institute, with the chilling title "Poorer than their Parents: Flat or Falling Incomes in Advanced Economies," shows just why this is the case. According to the paper, the trend in stagnating or declining incomes for middle class workers is not just confined to the United States, but is a global phenomenon hurting workers across the wealthy world.

    The middle class has less power, the rich have gotten richer. The poor are poor. The gap between the wealthy and the middle class is so great that there is no middle class.

    In the 1950s you could go to college and not end up with mountains of student debt and get a house, white picket fence etc. I'd not like to go back to that time but hey there was more possibility for economic mobility.

    Economic mobility is much less of a thing these days. There is no magic.

    Sure there's old money in Europe. The liberalness is there's a stronger middle class. No one is special we're all English or whatever. Of course it depends on where in Europe we're talking since Europe is not one thing it's many countries. I've lived in a two European countries and visited several more, I'm no expert but have some experience more than just guessing or going of what I've heard.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    @smeagolheart
    So the answer is what? Revolution? Apart from that I don't see things changing any time soon. The Dems aren't any more interested in sharing the wealth than the Republicans. They're just more interested in the little guy's vote. I'd be all in for a 3rd party but that's a tough road...
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,324
    When Sean Spicer resigned it struck me that Scaramucci's farewell speech to him included the statement that "I hope he makes a tremendous amount of money". I can't imagine that being said in the same circumstances in the UK - health or happiness or just good luck would be normal. Did that statement seem equally off-key in the US?
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited July 2017
    Balrog99 said:

    @smeagolheart
    So the answer is what? Revolution? Apart from that I don't see things changing any time soon. The Dems aren't any more interested in sharing the wealth than the Republicans. They're just more interested in the little guy's vote. I'd be all in for a 3rd party but that's a tough road...

    we can only control what we can control. Change doesn't have to be revolution tomorrow, we got fooked like we are now and it didn't happen over night.

    For me, I'm interested in changing the dems from within. Blame me in that I'm not going to do anything about the situation we're in but vote for the candidate that comes closest (though it may still be far away) from what I'd like. With the current climate I hope to see people run that are less beholden to corporations because Trump has turned the whole thing so toxic. If all choices suck then I guess you have to go with the least offensive. But what better I can control are things like the way I present myself, the values I try and live by and what I try to show my kids. Be the change you want to see and all that.
    Grond0 said:

    When Sean Spicer resigned it struck me that Scaramucci's farewell speech to him included the statement that "I hope he makes a tremendous amount of money". I can't imagine that being said in the same circumstances in the UK - health or happiness or just good luck would be normal. Did that statement seem equally off-key in the US?

    Unfortunately no a statement like that doesn't bat an eye over the pond here. It is a lame thing to say though.
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,938
    Grond0 said:

    When Sean Spicer resigned it struck me that Scaramucci's farewell speech to him included the statement that "I hope he makes a tremendous amount of money". I can't imagine that being said in the same circumstances in the UK - health or happiness or just good luck would be normal. Did that statement seem equally off-key in the US?

    That reminds me in a way of how 'Have a blessed day', 'bless you' or 'bless his heart' (sometimes meaning,'that person's got real problems', are used sometimes, at least here in the south. In some instances it is the 'nice' way of saying well, the exact opposite, or at least it seems that way.
    So I could see that as meaning, 'fat chance of YOU making any money, you're never gonna make what I have'. That dude is about as sarcastic as it gets.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Grond0 said:

    When Sean Spicer resigned it struck me that Scaramucci's farewell speech to him included the statement that "I hope he makes a tremendous amount of money". I can't imagine that being said in the same circumstances in the UK - health or happiness or just good luck would be normal. Did that statement seem equally off-key in the US?

    Unless it's intended sarcastically: "I hope he makes a tremendous amount of money [whilst festering in the deepest pit of Hell]".
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,077
    @jjstraka34
    I'm convinced this whole Sopranos vibe from Scaramucci is a total act that he and Trump think plays well on television. That's why his interviews with the New Yorker and CNN were so over the top. Based on everything I've heard and read from people who knew him before this, this isn't how he usually acts.

    To be honest, I rather meant his unexplainable attack on Priebus and Bannon. I have no idea what he was thinking. But yeah, that "eyyyy, it'sa Mooch!" thing is weird indeed.
    I know it's not much, but I think you guys deserve some better people at the White House. :neutral:
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,938
    @Artona No kiddin. ;) Lawd, it's gettin to be a real crowd up in there.

    The only appointment I have liked, however, and that really explains things well, is John Kelly. Every time I have heard him at briefings in Congress as Secretary of HS, I have been very impressed. I kinda would have liked him to stay in Homeland Security, as he knows the drug problem quite well. As former head of Southern Command he also has some major contacts south of us. As Chief of Staff, I know he can take a ribbin' calmly and not be afraid to give someone a good 'talking to'. He is definitely not easily rattled, very calm. It would be hard to imagine someone gettin' all up in his face.

    Just President t rump though, he likes this bus throwing thing. I think if he wants the military on his side though, this would not be the guy to try it with, unlike Flynn, but we'll see.
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,297
    The latest tweets have made me think about the importance of the constitution vs that of culture. I think most people overestimate the importance of the former vs that of the later.

    The danger in focusing too much on a written constitution is that you begin to value the letter of the law over the spirit of the law; that is generally a good idea for criminal law, but less so for constitutional law. It also can give you a false sense of security, e.g. look at religious freedom. It is a constitutionally guaranteed right, but there are clear problems on the culture side, as indicated by the famous quote "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.".

    Sometimes I think the UK is wise not to have a written constitution.

    And this is one of the reasons why I think Trump is so dangerous for US democracy. His violation of the unwritten rules will damage the democratic culture in a way that will be hard to repair.

    It is not against the law for a President to not completely divest, to not make public his tax returns. But it has been an important and valuable part of the culture.

    I do not think much of McConnell. Both his obstructionism during the Obama years and using the nuclear option on the supreme court nomination were also harmful to the culture of the US. But I do hope he will stay firm on not using the nuclear option on the legislative filibuster, as requested to by Trump.

    And tweeting “If the Democrats ever got the chance, they would switch to a 51 majority vote in first minute.“ is an outrageous and incredibly dangerous (if people believe it) lie. They had the chance in the past and so did the Republicans, whenever they held a majority.

    Both parties wisely did not use it. Removing it would irrevocably change the nature of government in the US.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited July 2017
    Trump likes wrassling Gifs right?

    image
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    Trump likes wrassling Gifs right?

    image

    That's a good one, especially if you know the context of the storyline it happened in.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Zaghoul said:

    Grond0 said:

    When Sean Spicer resigned it struck me that Scaramucci's farewell speech to him included the statement that "I hope he makes a tremendous amount of money". I can't imagine that being said in the same circumstances in the UK - health or happiness or just good luck would be normal. Did that statement seem equally off-key in the US?

    That reminds me in a way of how 'Have a blessed day', 'bless you' or 'bless his heart' (sometimes meaning,'that person's got real problems', are used sometimes, at least here in the south. In some instances it is the 'nice' way of saying well, the exact opposite, or at least it seems that way.
    So I could see that as meaning, 'fat chance of YOU making any money, you're never gonna make what I have'. That dude is about as sarcastic as it gets.
    Even better "bless his/her heart" or "bless you" is used completely straight as a well wish phrase in other places. I'm smack dab in the middle of the US and depending on who I talk to, I hear it used both ways.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Trump again flat-out stated this morning he is going to attempt to tank the Obamacare exchanges on purpose. Think about that. This comes on the heels of the news last week that Tom Price's DHS used money allocated to help spread the word of how people can sign up for the ACA to run ads AGAINST it. Donald Trump and Tom Price are deliberately trying to destroy the health insurance market. If you don't believe me, you can just listen to their own words.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857

    Trump again flat-out stated this morning he is going to attempt to tank the Obamacare exchanges on purpose. Think about that. This comes on the heels of the news last week that Tom Price's DHS used money allocated to help spread the word of how people can sign up for the ACA to run ads AGAINST it. Donald Trump and Tom Price are deliberately trying to destroy the health insurance market. If you don't believe me, you can just listen to their own words.

    Well, from what I read, Trump knows absolutely nothing about how health insurance works, disturbingly little actually for someone who has a vocal opinion on the subject.

    Still, I don't really need to understand the ins and outs of fly physiology/anatomy to swat one effectively.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited July 2017
    DreadKhan said:

    Trump again flat-out stated this morning he is going to attempt to tank the Obamacare exchanges on purpose. Think about that. This comes on the heels of the news last week that Tom Price's DHS used money allocated to help spread the word of how people can sign up for the ACA to run ads AGAINST it. Donald Trump and Tom Price are deliberately trying to destroy the health insurance market. If you don't believe me, you can just listen to their own words.

    Well, from what I read, Trump knows absolutely nothing about how health insurance works, disturbingly little actually for someone who has a vocal opinion on the subject.

    Still, I don't really need to understand the ins and outs of fly physiology/anatomy to swat one effectively.
    What Trump says is he is going to stop the "bailouts" for insurance companies. And it's fine if people want to think of it that way, it's mostly true. But what he is talking about are the subsidies that allow things like no more pre-existing conditions to exist. And it is the law of the land. And he is threatening to just stop the payments written into current law. If those payments stop, the markets will continue to be destabilized. And we've moved WELL past the point where Trump's threats themselves are causing the markets to be thrown into chaos. The insurance companies themselves are now flat-out saying that they have no idea what is going to happen, and that is the reason for many of the recent wave of certain companies leaving exchanges in certain states. Trump is threatening to cut off the funds, unilaterally.

    As I have said many times, our system of for-profit insurance flat-out sucks, but what the ACA did was try to get as MANY people covered as possible under a bad system. The only way to achieve the aim of eliminating pre-existing conditions and making sure that the insurance companies had to provide certain benefits was to subsidize them. It was either that, destroy the insurance industry altogether (which would have never been possible), or do nothing. There are many necessary evils we have to live with at any given time. Sadly, for-profit insurance is one of them, but Obamacare, at the VERY LEAST, stopped the predatory practices of those companies and made them start acting in semi-good faith. And again, it IS the law. And Trump is just saying, after losing the vote in the Senate, that he is going to take the law into his own hands.
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