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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Here is the timeline:

    On Saturday, after convening with Bannon and Miller, he specifically does not call out Nazis and white supremacists. Monday, under political pressure, he gives a statement he is clearly pissed about having to give, he then sends a series of dog whistles:

    1.) He sends out a tweet admitting the 2nd statement was insincere and attacks the media more harshly than the rally-goers.

    2.) Floats the pardon of Joe Arpaio

    3.) Retweets a prominent Alt-right personality

    4.) Sends a tweet in which a CNN reporter is run over in nearly exactly the same manner as Heather Heyer was murdered, before her family has even had a chance to bury her.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371

    Here is the timeline:

    On Saturday, after convening with Bannon and Miller, he specifically does not call out Nazis and white supremacists. Monday, under political pressure, he gives a statement he is clearly pissed about having to give, he then sends a series of dog whistles:

    1.) He sends out a tweet admitting the 2nd statement was insincere and attacks the media more harshly than the rally-goers.

    2.) Floats the pardon of Joe Arpaio

    3.) Retweets a prominent Alt-right personality

    4.) Sends a tweet in which a CNN reporter is run over in nearly exactly the same manner as Heather Heyer was murdered, before her family has even had a chance to bury her.

    'Nearly exactly the same way', really?

    Getting hit by a cartoon train on train tracks is the same as getting smashed into by a car in a crowd of people? That's a large stretch of the imagination. I'll agree with you that it was an idiotic tweet at entirely the wrong time though...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Balrog99 said:

    Here is the timeline:

    On Saturday, after convening with Bannon and Miller, he specifically does not call out Nazis and white supremacists. Monday, under political pressure, he gives a statement he is clearly pissed about having to give, he then sends a series of dog whistles:

    1.) He sends out a tweet admitting the 2nd statement was insincere and attacks the media more harshly than the rally-goers.

    2.) Floats the pardon of Joe Arpaio

    3.) Retweets a prominent Alt-right personality

    4.) Sends a tweet in which a CNN reporter is run over in nearly exactly the same manner as Heather Heyer was murdered, before her family has even had a chance to bury her.

    'Nearly exactly the same way', really?

    Getting hit by a cartoon train on train tracks is the same as getting smashed into by a car in a crowd of people? That's a large stretch of the imagination. I'll agree with you that it was an idiotic tweet at entirely the wrong time though...
    It wasn't idiotic, it was done on purpose.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857

    Balrog99 said:

    Here is the timeline:

    On Saturday, after convening with Bannon and Miller, he specifically does not call out Nazis and white supremacists. Monday, under political pressure, he gives a statement he is clearly pissed about having to give, he then sends a series of dog whistles:

    1.) He sends out a tweet admitting the 2nd statement was insincere and attacks the media more harshly than the rally-goers.

    2.) Floats the pardon of Joe Arpaio

    3.) Retweets a prominent Alt-right personality

    4.) Sends a tweet in which a CNN reporter is run over in nearly exactly the same manner as Heather Heyer was murdered, before her family has even had a chance to bury her.

    'Nearly exactly the same way', really?

    Getting hit by a cartoon train on train tracks is the same as getting smashed into by a car in a crowd of people? That's a large stretch of the imagination. I'll agree with you that it was an idiotic tweet at entirely the wrong time though...
    It wasn't idiotic, it was done on purpose.
    I see it as both idiotic and deliberate. Pretty terrible optics, being soft on Nazis.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited August 2017
    DreadKhan said:

    Balrog99 said:

    Here is the timeline:

    On Saturday, after convening with Bannon and Miller, he specifically does not call out Nazis and white supremacists. Monday, under political pressure, he gives a statement he is clearly pissed about having to give, he then sends a series of dog whistles:

    1.) He sends out a tweet admitting the 2nd statement was insincere and attacks the media more harshly than the rally-goers.

    2.) Floats the pardon of Joe Arpaio

    3.) Retweets a prominent Alt-right personality

    4.) Sends a tweet in which a CNN reporter is run over in nearly exactly the same manner as Heather Heyer was murdered, before her family has even had a chance to bury her.

    'Nearly exactly the same way', really?

    Getting hit by a cartoon train on train tracks is the same as getting smashed into by a car in a crowd of people? That's a large stretch of the imagination. I'll agree with you that it was an idiotic tweet at entirely the wrong time though...
    It wasn't idiotic, it was done on purpose.
    I see it as both idiotic and deliberate. Pretty terrible optics, being soft on Nazis.
    Doesn't care about optics. He is at 34% approval. His floor isn't much lower. Hs believes (and is probably correct) that he can get re-elected with just his base (who will follow him all the way through nuclear winter) and voter suppression. And white supremacists are part of his base. Chew on this: he won Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania by about 75,000 votes total. You think there aren't 75,000 white supremacists in those 3 states?? Especially Michigan, which has always been a ground-zero for right-wing militia movements.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,044
    Protesters in Durham took it upon themselves to topple a statue of a Confederate soldier. Technically this is destruction of public property but let's not get bogged down on that detail at this time. The *real* problem is that now these "statue defenders" are going to start being deployed to "high profile" monuments in an attempt to keep them intact and/or in place. They will expect violence and will be prepared for it just like any protesters descending upon that monument will be prepared to resist with equal and opposite force.

    The alt-right doubled down in Charlottesville so now the other side (they need a name because all groups of people need a catchy identifier, call sign, and/or logo) will call, after which the alt-right will see and raise.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964

    A couple days after a young woman was killed by a white supremacists car (and many more were injured) popular vote loser Trump retweets a white supremacists image showing a journalist being run over by a train. I'd say 'what is he thinking!?' but it seems clear what he's thinking.

    I think at this point you gotta get Republicans to condemn and disavow this guy.

    The disavow game is pure propaganda and Trump was right to call it what it is. Anyone who doesn't disavow Antifa is a communist or communist sympathizer. Anyone who doesn't condemn radical left wing terrorism in the strongst possible terms tacitly endorses it.

    That would be...the entirety of the Democrats. They probably all want the violence to happen!

    The train of thought is absurd on it's face.

    If the President was a Democrat and antifa ran over some white supremacists you would have a case. But that didn't happen and would never happen, there's no indication that antifa is anything near the threat to people as white supremacists are. White nazis took aggressive pro-active actions to murder people as white supremacists have done many, many, many, times in history. And so you're making false equivalencies here. An antifa attack didn't happen, a white nationalist racist supremacist one did happen.

    Whenever a muslim shoots somebody, the right calls on muslims to condemn the guy, that's what is happening here. People of conscience should condemn Trump's alt-right policies and thinking and his white supremacist cronies such as Gorka, Miller and Bannon for what they are saying and doing and endorsing in response to this terrorist attack.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited August 2017

    Protesters in Durham took it upon themselves to topple a statue of a Confederate soldier. Technically this is destruction of public property but let's not get bogged down on that detail at this time. The *real* problem is that now these "statue defenders" are going to start being deployed to "high profile" monuments in an attempt to keep them intact and/or in place. They will expect violence and will be prepared for it just like any protesters descending upon that monument will be prepared to resist with equal and opposite force.

    The alt-right doubled down in Charlottesville so now the other side (they need a name because all groups of people need a catchy identifier, call sign, and/or logo) will call, after which the alt-right will see and raise.

    Dead statue=the left
    Dead person= the Alt-right

    There is a reason Germany and Japan don't have statues of Hitler and Tojo sprinkled all over the country. Most of these Confederate monuments were put up a.) at the start of Jim Crow and b.) during the Civil Rights Movement. They are there to intimidate African-Americans.

    It should also be noted that someone vandalized a Holocaust Memorial in Boston yesterday after the mayor said the Alt-right wasn't welcome in town.

  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    It'd be nice if the various relevant governments would nut up and put up memorials to ending slavery in place of every confederate/traitor statue.

    I'd need lots of popcorn for that though...
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,669
    edited August 2017

    'Nearly exactly the same way', really?

    Getting hit by a cartoon train on train tracks is the same as getting smashed into by a car in a crowd of people? That's a large stretch of the imagination. I'll agree with you that it was an idiotic tweet at entirely the wrong time though...
    And these Trump Train memes have been around since pre-election and have been referenced by him before.

    I honestly feel like we live in two seperate realities if you really believe the President of the United States is tacitly trying to celebrate the murder of an innocent by an extremist. That's confirmation bias on levels that shouldn't be possible, in my honest opinion. What in Trumps history gives the slightest hint of neo nazi leanings? He was calling out bigots and racists all the way back in 2000. Absolutely nothing in his whole life in the public eye to back this stuff up.

    Dead statue=the left
    Dead person= the Alt-right
    When violence happens, acknowledge and disavow = the right

    When violence happens, pretend it didn't happen as much as possible = the left

    .
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,669

    Protesters in Durham took it upon themselves to topple a statue of a Confederate soldier. Technically this is destruction of public property but let's not get bogged down on that detail at this time. The *real* problem is that now these "statue defenders" are going to start being deployed to "high profile" monuments in an attempt to keep them intact and/or in place.
    Isn't it funny how right wing extremists don't show up to left wing events with weapons ready to start violence? Anyway...

    I strongly disagree that letting leftist protesters do what they want without regard for the law or sanity to not be a problem. Rather, as you just said, this is going to *escalate the violence*. Maybe letting left wing wackos do what they want all the time even if its illegal while right wing wackos get assaulted in the street for trying to speak to the celebration of even the mainstream left fuels the sense of this being a war both sides seem to have.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    Trump's racist tendencies have been documented here before including going back to the very beginning where he and his father lost a suit for racial discrimination with their apartments. Gorka, Bannon and Miller are all buddy buddy with Trump and White Supremacists. I'd include Sessions as well but he's actually had the fortitude to be able to call the terrorism and say the right thing. If you don't know about these guys and Trump's history by now that's on you there's plenty of information out there.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited August 2017
    For the 100th time, last Friday the "Unite the Right" literally surrounded a full church while carrying lit torches. A church. They then showed up the next day wielding firearms and carrying shields, then plowed through a group of pedestrians, injuring 19, killing one. One side in recent events has multiple fatalities, and one doesn't. But more to the point, the Alt-right and white supremacists SPECIFICALLY point to Donald Trump as their leader and inspiration. What Democratic politician is endorsed by Antifa?? Certainly no centrist Democrats. Antifa is a communist group. There hasn't been anyone approaching a communist candiate for anything in this country in over 75 years. Yet white supremacists are absolutely convinced Donald Trump is their guy. Other than Confederate and Nazi flags, the most common sight at the rally on Saturday was red MAGA hats. Here is the picture that was on the terrorist's Facebook page, which looks like it is ripped straight from the plot of Bioshock Infinite:


    Trump supporters of the run-of-the-mill variety are going to have to get used to the fact that Nazis and white supremacists believe he is the champion they have been waiting for. You can't make any such claim about any other modern President.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,938
    Growing up not far from Durham NC, I will say that tearing down that statue in Durham was probably not the best way to go about things, response wise. Might as well throw gas on a fire in this state, with that action.
    I've been to many a confederate fort, seen many a re-enactment, learned history (on both sides of the war), and it always gave me pause to think.
    Not everyone sees these statues, forts, battlefields, and plaques as just glorifying slavery.

    ***As to this particular statue:
    Durham citizens erected and dedicated the statue on May 10, 1924, in memory of “the boys who wore the gray.”
    Nice. What's next, confederate civil war cemeteries? Leave the union cemeteries alone while turnin them all into cornfields in an attempt to erase the past?

    Really bugs the 'tar' outa me. Murderin' car drivers do as well by the way.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    I don't get the glorification of rebel soldiers and leaders. Were they not fighting to preserve slavery pretending to call it "state's rights" while in armed rebellion to the United States? Now there's no reason to desecrate cemeteries, they died remember them there if you want but a civic monument is another matter. If your hero the thing you are proud of is a guy who fought to preserve slavery maybe you should be looking for other heroes. Put up a statue of a soldier who earned a medal of Honor or died in Iraq or Korea or Vietnam or Afghanistan.

    Imagine for a minute if we made Afghanistan the next State in the US. Then they put up a statue of Bin Laden "because he fought bravely and heritage and stuff". Might be inappropriate, no? That's the same type of deal.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited August 2017
    "The boys who wore the gray" so people with black skin could continue to be enslaved in perpetuity and in all incoming States being admitted to the Union.The way this country romanticizes the Southern "cause" is repulsive. No such myth-making exists in Germany about Hermann Goring and the Lutwaffe. At least most Germans have the decency to be ashamed about their past in 2017. The idea that we have statues all over this country of traitors who took up arms against their own country, and who also LOST is preposterous. The Confederate flag is a symbol of open rebellion against the United States, and is flown and defended by people who unironically call liberals "Un-American".
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Statues are virtually always built to honor the persons depicted. That's why they make them so much bigger than life size, and put them in symbolically important places.

    The Confederacy is better remembered in books, museums, reenactments, and graveyards; not in statues.

    Statues are for people we respect and admire, like Lincoln.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited August 2017
    Trump is now straight up defending the "protesters" from Friday night. Again, they surrounded a crowded church with lit torches chanting "blood and soil".

    If I didn't already know his core supporters will stick with him no matter what, I'd say Trump just self-immolated himself on national TV. That was a full-throated defense of Neo-Nazis and Confederates. He is everything the left has warned about, and worse.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,669

    Statues are virtually always built to honor the persons depicted. That's why they make them so much bigger than life size, and put them in symbolically important places.

    The Confederacy is better remembered in books, museums, reenactments, and graveyards; not in statues.

    Statues are for people we respect and admire, like Lincoln.

    If you feel that way, you go about it through the ballot box. You don't take matters into your own hands and decide to take it down then and there in defiance of the law.

    It's pretty amazing that asking for the equal treatment of the law between all people of every political stripe is too much to ask for the regressive left these days. Don't like em, punch em. Don't like it, destroy it. And active discrimination is suddenly okay again, and rampant. What happened?
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,669


    If I didn't already know his core supporters will stick with him no matter what, I'd say Trump just self-immolated himself on national TV. That was a full-throated defense of Neo-Nazis and Confederates. He is everything the left has warned about, and worse.



    He literally said "us" when describing the white supremacists at the rally. It is now undeniable, from his own mouth. That's called a Freudian Slip.
    Didnt actually listen to the speech myself, but did you happen to read the comments of that tweet?

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited August 2017
    I will go out of my way to be magnanimous and accept that that isn't in fact what he said, just for the sake of not getting bogged down in the semantics of that part of the statement. It turns out that part of the transcript may have been wrong. I will rescind and correct that part of the post. That part was definitely inaccurate. 110% of the rest still stands.

    If I was caught up in the heat of the repulsive moment, it was nothing compared to what was going on in the head of John Kelly as Trump spoke. Just look:


    Even CEOs of major corporations of his Manufacturing Council are abandoning him in droves, 6 in the past day, and after this speech, more are going to be all but forced to do so.

    Again, Trump specifically described the Friday night rally-goers as quiet and peaceful. I just listened to a 5 minute interview of a Methodist minister who described what ACTUALLY happened that night as they were inside the church, and once I can get either a transcript or video of that interview, I will post it here so everyone can hear what took place as a group of people were simply engaging in worship at a church.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    MEANWHILE:

    Canada has come out with their NAFTA renegotiation wish list which includes 10 demands:
    • New Chapter on Labour Standards. (Such as increasing Mexican Wages)
    • A New Chapter on Environmental Standards.
    • A New Chapter on Gender Rights
    • A New Chapter on Indigenous Rights
    • Reform Chapter 11 (Where companies can sue gov't over NAFTA)
    • Kill Buy American Rules at state and local levels
    • Freer movement of Professionals (easier for workers to obtain visas)
    • Protect Canada's Supply Management Procedures (read dairy)
    • Protect Cultural exemptions (like streaming services having to provide x amount of Canadian content)
    • Keep the dispute resolution mechanism in place
    From the early get go, the negotiations look promising. People involved on all sides have a wealth of knowledge and respect for each other especially the lead negotiator for the Americans who actually praised NAFTA in the past. As long as they can tune out distractions (read Trump) it maybe promising for both Canada and the United States and sure ya, maybe Mexico too.

    It will be a marathon with a bit of drama, however I think if cooler heads prevail everyone will come out ahead in the long run.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nafta-negotiations-freeland-canada-goals-1.4246141
    http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/trade-experts-agree-canada-has-plenty-of-leverage-in-nafta-negotiations-1.3546137
    http://www.macleans.ca/economy/canada-could-face-tough-nafta-negotation-on-key-points-u-s-experts-say/
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nafta-canada-demands-list-1.4246498
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited August 2017
    deltago said:

    MEANWHILE:

    Canada has come out with their NAFTA renegotiation wish list which includes 10 demands:

    • New Chapter on Labour Standards. (Such as increasing Mexican Wages)
    • A New Chapter on Environmental Standards.
    • A New Chapter on Gender Rights
    • A New Chapter on Indigenous Rights
    • Reform Chapter 11 (Where companies can sue gov't over NAFTA)
    • Kill Buy American Rules at state and local levels
    • Freer movement of Professionals (easier for workers to obtain visas)
    • Protect Canada's Supply Management Procedures (read dairy)
    • Protect Cultural exemptions (like streaming services having to provide x amount of Canadian content)
    • Keep the dispute resolution mechanism in place
    From the early get go, the negotiations look promising. People involved on all sides have a wealth of knowledge and respect for each other especially the lead negotiator for the Americans who actually praised NAFTA in the past. As long as they can tune out distractions (read Trump) it maybe promising for both Canada and the United States and sure ya, maybe Mexico too.

    It will be a marathon with a bit of drama, however I think if cooler heads prevail everyone will come out ahead in the long run.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nafta-negotiations-freeland-canada-goals-1.4246141
    http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/trade-experts-agree-canada-has-plenty-of-leverage-in-nafta-negotiations-1.3546137
    http://www.macleans.ca/economy/canada-could-face-tough-nafta-negotation-on-key-points-u-s-experts-say/
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nafta-canada-demands-list-1.4246498
    Not sure how they are going to tune out Trump, when he is the President of the United States, and has made it part of his platform to dismantle trade agreements. Then again, nearly everything he says is bullshit, so maybe hope springs eternal. The best bet for this is for it to simply stay under the radar and not garner his interest. I wouldn't hold your breath though. If it's reasonable and mutually beneficial, he will most likely be against it.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited August 2017
    Trump won't accept that. He has to "win" and Canada and Mexico have to "lose". Because he's a "master deal maker" who has gone bankrupt seven times and is getting richer by overcharging taxpayers while he visits his own resorts one day out of three and profits profits profits.
    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    Statues are virtually always built to honor the persons depicted. That's why they make them so much bigger than life size, and put them in symbolically important places.

    The Confederacy is better remembered in books, museums, reenactments, and graveyards; not in statues.

    Statues are for people we respect and admire, like Lincoln.

    From Josh Marshall (per usual) at TPM, about the difference between someone like Jefferson and Robert E. Lee:

    Debates over public memory and the valorization of history are frequently complicated and politically vexed. But on the margins, in extreme cases, they are often pretty straightforward. For any subject of controversy, the first question we should ask is: What is the person known for? How did they earn a place in our collective public remembrance?

    As Thomas Jefferson’s involvement in slavery has become increasingly difficult to dismiss as simply a product of his times and as his use of one of his own slaves as his lifelong concubine has become more surely confirmed as fact, Jefferson’s place in the national pantheon has come in for increasing criticism. In his case, we have a mixed ledger. He is the author of the Declaration of Independence, the prime driver of the Northwest Ordinance, a significant anti-slavery document, Secretary of State, President. He was also a lifelong slaveholder with all that entailed. With Jefferson you have numerous acts which are high points in our national story joined with an integral involvement with our greatest national shame. This will be a long public discussion.

    What is Robert E. Lee known for? This is what I mean by the margins of the debate. Lee is known for one thing: being the key military leader in a violent rebellion against the United States and leading that rebellion to protect slavery. That’s it. Absent his decision to participate in the rebellion he’d be all but unknown to history. He outlived the war by only five years. There’s simply no positive side of the ledger to make it a tough call. The only logic to honoring Lee is to honor treason and treason in the worst possible cause.

    Lincoln and his war cabinet had little question what Lee deserved. Look at Arlington National Cemetery. That’s Lee’s plantation. The federal government confiscated it and dedicated it as a final resting place for those who died defending the United States. It is a solemn, poetically rich, final and ultimately righteous verdict on his role in our national life. The entire project was very much by design: to punish Lee and shame him in public memory for betraying the United States. (During the Civil War, a Freedman’s Village was also established on the estate for ex-slaves making their transition to freedom.) The generals, particularly Union Quartermaster General Montgomery Meigs who spearheaded the effort, wanted to be certain the Lees would never be able to reclaim their estate. Making it into a hallowed national cemetery was a good way to accomplish that.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited August 2017
    man, just watched a clip of that news conference. I believe it's the first one he's done since February. It wasn't even a real news conference but it was closest to one. He has answered one or two questions when meeting with foreign dignitaries but that's about it. Other than that he's hidden from the public and only ventured out to be on Fox News or Infowars and White American Christian News or whatever but that's it.

    Listen to this clown-
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/15/politics/trump-news-conference-twitter/index.html

    "Tell me what the alt-right is?"

    Reporter goes to answer "It's..."

    "No shut up, what about the alt-left?" He seems to be just a crazy person.

    image
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    deltago said:

    MEANWHILE:

    Canada has come out with their NAFTA renegotiation wish list which includes 10 demands:

    • New Chapter on Labour Standards. (Such as increasing Mexican Wages)
    • A New Chapter on Environmental Standards.
    • A New Chapter on Gender Rights
    • A New Chapter on Indigenous Rights
    • Reform Chapter 11 (Where companies can sue gov't over NAFTA)
    • Kill Buy American Rules at state and local levels
    • Freer movement of Professionals (easier for workers to obtain visas)
    • Protect Canada's Supply Management Procedures (read dairy)
    • Protect Cultural exemptions (like streaming services having to provide x amount of Canadian content)
    • Keep the dispute resolution mechanism in place
    From the early get go, the negotiations look promising. People involved on all sides have a wealth of knowledge and respect for each other especially the lead negotiator for the Americans who actually praised NAFTA in the past. As long as they can tune out distractions (read Trump) it maybe promising for both Canada and the United States and sure ya, maybe Mexico too.

    It will be a marathon with a bit of drama, however I think if cooler heads prevail everyone will come out ahead in the long run.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nafta-negotiations-freeland-canada-goals-1.4246141
    http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/trade-experts-agree-canada-has-plenty-of-leverage-in-nafta-negotiations-1.3546137
    http://www.macleans.ca/economy/canada-could-face-tough-nafta-negotation-on-key-points-u-s-experts-say/
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nafta-canada-demands-list-1.4246498
    Not sure how they are going to tune out Trump, when he is the President of the United States, and has made it part of his platform to dismantle trade agreements. Then again, nearly everything he says is bullshit, so maybe hope springs eternal. The best bet for this is for it to simply stay under the radar and not garner his interest. I wouldn't hold your breath though. If it's reasonable and mutually beneficial, he will most likely be against it.
    How?

    By tuning him out. Whatever he tweets, whatever he says, it is just b.s. that has no swing in the final negotiations. As long as he doesn't fire John Melle and replace him with some blowhard stooge, there isn't much he can do.

    And even if he does do that, Mexico and Canada still hold all the cards. They can walk away from the negotiations for whatever reason and the result is that NAFTA stays in its current effect until Trump rips it up, and even then, I can see congress attempting to block him from doing so.

    And if/when a new deal does get put into place, even if America submits to all of Canada's and Mexico's demands and America gets nothing, Trump will still tweet out "it is the greatest deal for all Americans ever. We Won! Made Merica Great!" Trump's base will believe it (others however will probably feel swindled).

    And as long as the national stage stays chaotic, and North Korea keeps badgering him and whatever he does next week and month to rile people up, I think boring old NAFTA will fly under the radar. For example, was NAFTA even mentioned once in the last couple of days in the states as negotiations kick started? Keep toppling statues is what I say...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    As promised, the pastor describing what actually happened last Friday night as the Nazi horde descended upon a church:

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Yup, the southern states were traitors for following America's example of breaking ties with those you no longer want governing you...wait.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited August 2017
    ThacoBell said:

    Yup, the southern states were traitors for following America's example of breaking ties with those you no longer want governing you...wait.

    No reasonable person would say the instigators of the American Revolution were not traitors to the British Empire, of course they were. The difference?? They won. When you lose, your traitor problem sticks with you. And the "no longer want governing you" part needs to be followed by a "because" and then a reason. As far as I'm concerned, the ideal historical situation would have been to get all the slaves out and let the South become the failed fascist state it surely would have. Of course, even after we freed the slaves, we abandoned them to another 100 years of Southern whites subjecting them to Jim Crow and the most horrific reign of domestic terrorism this country has ever seen. No voting rights, share-cropping, lynchings, bodies buried in swamps by local police departments. There isn't enough time to go through it all here. But start with the documentary "4 Little Girls" for starters, then watch "Mississippi Burning" to get a real good feel of the South until the federal government finally swooped in in the '60s.
This discussion has been closed.