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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    edited April 2018


    Alex van der Zwaan has been sentenced to 30 days in prison (lolwut?) and ordered to pay a $20,000 fine for the crime of lying to Mueller's investigative team...a crime which would not exist if the investigation, itself, did not exist. Sounds like Mueller is still trying to justify his investigation's existence.

    Perjury also never exists until there's a trial, yet that doesn't make it any less of a crime. The point is not to justify the existence of the investigation; the point of the penalty is the same as the point of criminalizing perjury: because it discourages other people from lying to law enforcement.

    The alternative to punishing people for lying to the FBI is to not punish people for lying to the FBI.
    Yes, but people seem to be drawing the conclusion that because someone lied to the FBI during this investigation, then therefore there must be collusion with Russia. This seems to be a giant rush to judgment.



    Edit: Doesn't help that the media has repeatedly decided not to include what the actual charges were in any of the headlines.




    CNN has been incredibly misleading on this point, while HuffPo and others have been much more accurate.
    Post edited by booinyoureyes on
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Jeff Henry is being charged with murder for ignoring safety problems on a Schlitterbahn ride he designed that decapitated a 10-year-old child when the brakes failed.

    I think Jeff Henry is the father of a childhood friend of mine.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    Trump says he's going to order the military to guard the southern border. Until his wall is complete. No word on the Northern border for some reason. Why?

    He plans to have the military guard the border against women, children and asylum seekers. Trump last week invited Vladimir Putin to the White House. Vladimir Putin owner of anti-American propaganda troll farms who infiltrated national and state elections in the recent past and are still active today. The guy who launched an assassination in the United Kingdom causing most countries to kick out their ambassadors. But the problem facing America is asylum seekers and women and children. This guy is nuts.

    As long as we're at it, we might as well put the Posse Comitatus Act in the shredder as well. If these are anything other than National Guard troops, this is beyond problematic.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235

    Jeff Henry is being charged with murder for ignoring safety problems on a Schlitterbahn ride he designed that decapitated a 10-year-old child when the brakes failed.

    I think Jeff Henry is the father of a childhood friend of mine.

    I think my parents knew the family of that boy.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited April 2018
    Active shooter at YouTube HQ in San Bruno, CA apparently.
    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    Active shooter at YouTube HQ in San Bruno, CA apparently.

    Well it is a Tuesday.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Is it streaming live?
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited April 2018

    Is it streaming live?

    Streaming death and bullets it would seem. :/

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-youtube-shooter-20180403-story.html

    "Some said they heard so many people running that they believed an earthquake had struck. Others described a gruesome scene.

    "I looked down and saw blood drips on the floor and stairs," Todd Sherman, a YouTube producer, wrote on Twitter. "Peaked [sic] around for threats and then we headed downstairs and out the front."
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    A woman? That's rare.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    A woman? That's rare.

    Almost unheard of.
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 523

    A woman? That's rare.

    Almost unheard of.
    Must be those feminazis Rush warned us about.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,044

    Trump says he's going to order the military to guard the southern border. Until his wall is complete. No word on the Northern border for some reason. Why?

    As long as we're at it, we might as well put the Posse Comitatus Act in the shredder as well. If these are anything other than National Guard troops, this is beyond problematic.
    Bush sent National Guard troops to the border back in 2006, Obama sent some back in 2010, and Rick Perry sent Texas National Guard to the border in 2014, so this won't be the first time something like this has been suggested. Of course, if Trump tries to deploy the actual military...well, the JCoS will probably tell him "we can't do that". He may not listen, but they would be allowed to disobey that illegal order.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    Trump says he's going to order the military to guard the southern border. Until his wall is complete. No word on the Northern border for some reason. Why?

    As long as we're at it, we might as well put the Posse Comitatus Act in the shredder as well. If these are anything other than National Guard troops, this is beyond problematic.
    Bush sent National Guard troops to the border back in 2006, Obama sent some back in 2010, and Rick Perry sent Texas National Guard to the border in 2014, so this won't be the first time something like this has been suggested. Of course, if Trump tries to deploy the actual military...well, the JCoS will probably tell him "we can't do that". He may not listen, but they would be allowed to disobey that illegal order.
    The question is, what for?? Illegal immigration is already at a net negative, and has been for years. It is down another 26% last year (at least I heard this stat mentioned today). It is a problem that continues to fix itself. The idea that this requires a military deployment is ridiculous. If that's the case, then what do we need the Border Patrol for?? Speaking of which, there are something like 20,000 Border Patrol agents, who make about 40,000 arrests on the border each month. That amounts to TWO arrests per agent a month. These guys don't seem overworked, nor does it seem that their main function even takes place all that often.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited April 2018

    if Trump tries to deploy the actual military...well, the JCoS will probably tell him "we can't do that". He may not listen, but they would be allowed to disobey that illegal order.

    I doubt it's an 'if' with Trump. It has the hallmarks of a Trump spur of the moment 'plan'.

    - Inspired by Fox News fear mongering? Check.
    - Everyone who is not an insane right wing pundit is telling him he can't or shouldn't do it? Check.
    - Doesn't think all the way through the message his inflammatory actions send to our allies? Check.
    - Trump thinks he has authority because of his flawed understanding of the government which consists of 'president does what he wants'. Check.
    - Won't bother to check with the people whose job it is to know? Or if he does he'll just ignore them? Or order them to justify the decision he's already made in his head? Check? So we'll see.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964


    Haven't you heard? There is a "migrant caravan" headed towards the United States and when it gets here our very way of life is going to be cast down and burned on a pile of old tires. Or something like that.

    I read an analysis today which indicates--truthfully, in my opinion--that Trump considers himself to be his own best advisor. His "gut reactions" are, in his mind, more insightful and more correct than the analyses being given to him by professionals who have been dealing with their particular field of interest for years.

    His 'gut reactions' seem to be strongly shaped by watching Fox News either purposefully or accidentally.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850


    Haven't you heard? There is a "migrant caravan" headed towards the United States and when it gets here our very way of life is going to be cast down and burned on a pile of old tires. Or something like that.

    I read an analysis today which indicates--truthfully, in my opinion--that Trump considers himself to be his own best advisor. His "gut reactions" are, in his mind, more insightful and more correct than the analyses being given to him by professionals who have been dealing with their particular field of interest for years.

    His 'gut reactions' seem to be strongly shaped by watching Fox News either purposefully or accidentally.

    He absolutely saw this on FOX News. In reality, the "caravan" is a group of refugees from Honduras, of which apparently only 10-15% plan to seek asylum in the US, which I think they have an absolute right to at least TRY to attain. Regardless, unless they are carrying suitcase nukes, being met by armed soldiers at the border is wholly unnecessary.
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,938

    joluv said:

    I know you have a healthy reflex to think that things are overblown, but it's absurd to suggest that there isn't already smoke here.

    Not where they are currently looking. If the Mueller team were playing the children's game "hot or cold" then by looking at Gates and Manafort they were "hot" but by looking at this current company they are definitely "cold".

    *************

    Did I mention the Asheville, North Carolina bodycam footage of an officer chasing down, beating, choking, and tasing a black man for jaywalking? Yes, you read that correctly--jaywalking. Early in the morning (somwhere around 0230 or 0330), with no traffic on the street in question. By himself. On his way home after finishing a shift of washing dishes.
    That happened not far from me and was pretty hard to watch .The guy was resisting in a fashion I suppose (not that I can blame him, really), but the hard part for me was hearing the way they were talking about him that was even more disturbing. Some cops have better conflict skills than others but these guys were way off here, way off.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    My immediate thought when I heard there was a shooter at the Youtube headquarters was "God, I wonder if it's someone pissed about demonetization of their videos". If this report from a local ABC affiliate is to be believed, that may have indeed been part of the issue:

    http://abc7news.com/3298575/
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 957

    Trump says he's going to order the military to guard the southern border. Until his wall is complete. No word on the Northern border for some reason. Why?

    As long as we're at it, we might as well put the Posse Comitatus Act in the shredder as well. If these are anything other than National Guard troops, this is beyond problematic.
    Bush sent National Guard troops to the border back in 2006, Obama sent some back in 2010, and Rick Perry sent Texas National Guard to the border in 2014, so this won't be the first time something like this has been suggested. Of course, if Trump tries to deploy the actual military...well, the JCoS will probably tell him "we can't do that". He may not listen, but they would be allowed to disobey that illegal order.
    The question is, what for?? Illegal immigration is already at a net negative, and has been for years. It is down another 26% last year (at least I heard this stat mentioned today). It is a problem that continues to fix itself. The idea that this requires a military deployment is ridiculous. If that's the case, then what do we need the Border Patrol for?? Speaking of which, there are something like 20,000 Border Patrol agents, who make about 40,000 arrests on the border each month. That amounts to TWO arrests per agent a month. These guys don't seem overworked, nor does it seem that their main function even takes place all that often.
    Well, I live about 30 miles from the border, but I'd say 40k PER MONTH seems high, although that's not at all just illegal immigrants. They also do drug arrests and drug seizure. And apparently LOTS of it. Lots and lots of it.

    From what I can tell, basically the concern/duties of the border patrol, at least in south Texas, is illegal immigrants, drugs, and customs duties (the tariff type of duties). Which is what the duties of the overall Customs and Border Protection agency is. They have a big sign at the border checkpoint about 60 miles north of here (little south of Falfurrias, Texas) that said how many illegal immigrants and how many pounds of drugs have been seized at that checkpoint, although I've always wondered how up-to-date that was, because I've seen it as high as about 2,000 and 88,000, respectively in March (not this year, I haven't gone north this year).

    I dread the thought of putting the actual military in charge of the border, and not just because of the illegality of it, Posse Comitatus having been law now for over 100 years, and the Insurrection Act for over 200 years (barring its several amendments).

    Do you have your doctor do your taxes? A welder do electrical work?

    To top it all off, Bernie Sanders is now also commenting on Amazon, saying they are too big and getting involved in too many areas of commerce. He's worried about the decline in brick and mortar retail. http://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-amazon-is-too-big-2018-4

    I would not be surprised to see congressional hearings on Amazon and sales taxes soon, with bipartisan support.

    I heard that Amazon accounts for like 4% of the U.S. retail market.

    Wal-Mart is what, 20%-25%? They were 21.7% of retail food sales last year.

    I think I know which I'd say is more relevant to the decline of brick and mortar retail because of getting too big and in too many areas of commerce.

    I go to Amazon for specialty products I CAN NOT find locally, because I'm particular and picky and who wants a particular model of a particular brand and they are not CARRIED locally. I can't buy from ("support") stores when they don't HAVE what I want to buy. And of course, I get all types of media from Amazon, CDs, books, and games. That said, I only order off Amazon about a dozen times a year.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    So Trumps trade war with China is escalating. Stock market is tanking. Two forces that can't admit weaknesses are facing off.

    Don't worry Trump says, we already lost the trade war with China years ago and are running a $500 bn trade deficit, the only way to go is up!

    Well, I haven't overcome several bankruptcies like Trump has but I'm pretty sure a $500bn trade deficit could go to a $700bn trade deficit or higher as well. No guarantee at all that things get better by antagonizing your trading partners.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,044
    edited April 2018
    You would think that the stock market indices going down would cause the group of wealthy securities owners to band together and try to pressure the President to stop playing chicken with China. The problem with that, though, is that the wealthy or large investors can ride out the roller coaster while the smaller or individual investors have to bail or lose their investment value; this will allow the larger investors to buy those securities at a bit of a discount before the market normalizes and they recover their losses. In other words, the wealthy or large investors stand to make money *because* the President is playing chicken with China.

    The pitfall to that line of thinking, though, is to realize that these fluctuations are not normal market adjustments. Instead, they are reactions to one man's ego--it is impossible to adjust for that or to anticipate it. In any case, never forget to take the long-term view when examining markets, especially if you are trying to figure out what to do. Year-to-date the DOW is down -2.97% but compared to April 2017 the DOW is up 15.97%--if you bought in last year, enjoyed the ride, and sold today then you made money.

    *************

    edit/add: Now the Mueller Investigation is *really* getting desperate--they are questioning Russian oligarchs (why they don't just say "business people", I don't know...I guess "oligarch" sounds more ominous), including searching their mobile devices, looking for any evidence of cash they may have sent to the Trump Campaign.
    Special counsel Robert Mueller's team has taken the unusual step of questioning Russian oligarchs who traveled into the US, stopping at least one and searching his electronic devices when his private jet landed at a New York area airport, according to multiple sources familiar with the inquiry.

    A second Russian oligarch was stopped during a recent trip to the US, although it is not clear if he was searched, according to a person briefed on the matter.

    Mueller's team has also made an informal voluntary document and interview request to a third Russian oligarch who has not traveled to the US recently.

    The situations have one thing in common: Investigators are asking whether wealthy Russians illegally funneled cash donations directly or indirectly into Donald Trump's presidential campaign and inauguration.

    Investigators' interest in Russian oligarchs has not been previously reported. It reveals that Mueller's team has intensified its focus into the potential flow of money from Russia into the US election as part of its wide-ranging investigation into whether the Trump team colluded with Russia's interference in the 2016 presidential election.

    The approach to Russian oligarchs in recent weeks may reflect that Mueller's team has already obtained records or documents that it has legal jurisdiction over and can get easily, one source said, and now it's a "wish list" to see what other information they can obtain from Russians entering the US or through their voluntary cooperation.
    I highly doubt they have the authority to question foreign private citizens who are not even suspected of having given money to a campaign. My advice to Russian citizens being asked to cooperate--don't. The Mueller team cannot prevent you from entering the country for refusing to cooperate. If they are using--excuse me, *misusing*--the FBI to conduct these spot-searches then anything they find cannot be used.

    I guess the Mueller team now thinks that everyone is guilty until they are proven innocent. So much for our system of justice.
    Post edited by Mathsorcerer on
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited April 2018
    Apparently there is a new movement for Muslims to join the NRA, "Guns For Allah", I believe they are calling it. I don't believe this has anything to do with enforcing Sharia law.

    Question for our Conservative friends, do you support these Americans practicing their God given rights? (Allah given?) According to the website, some 30,000 members have already signed up.

    Link

    This isn't a real thing as far as I know, someone in a different forum said that the way to get Conservatives to turn away from the NRA would be for Muslims to join en masse. Just wondering what people think.
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    edited April 2018



    edit/add: Now the Mueller Investigation is *really* getting desperate--they are questioning Russian oligarchs (why they don't just say "business people", I don't know...I guess "oligarch" sounds more ominous), including searching their mobile devices, looking for any evidence of cash they may have sent to the Trump Campaign.

    Special counsel Robert Mueller's team has taken the unusual step of questioning Russian oligarchs who traveled into the US, stopping at least one and searching his electronic devices when his private jet landed at a New York area airport, according to multiple sources familiar with the inquiry.

    A second Russian oligarch was stopped during a recent trip to the US, although it is not clear if he was searched, according to a person briefed on the matter.

    Mueller's team has also made an informal voluntary document and interview request to a third Russian oligarch who has not traveled to the US recently.

    The situations have one thing in common: Investigators are asking whether wealthy Russians illegally funneled cash donations directly or indirectly into Donald Trump's presidential campaign and inauguration.

    Investigators' interest in Russian oligarchs has not been previously reported. It reveals that Mueller's team has intensified its focus into the potential flow of money from Russia into the US election as part of its wide-ranging investigation into whether the Trump team colluded with Russia's interference in the 2016 presidential election.

    The approach to Russian oligarchs in recent weeks may reflect that Mueller's team has already obtained records or documents that it has legal jurisdiction over and can get easily, one source said, and now it's a "wish list" to see what other information they can obtain from Russians entering the US or through their voluntary cooperation.
    Why does any of this strike you as desperation? It's been clear since day 1 that Mueller's investigation includes looking into any kind of Russian activity in Trump's election. That activity would almost certainly be accompanied by money in one direction or another.

    I get that you're completely skeptical of the Russia collusion angle, but I'd say that the investigation is utterly incomplete if the investigators arent approaching this by looking at both the US and Russia.

    As a last thought - there's already some incredibly problematic links between Russia and the Trump transition team (via Flynn). Those may or may not go all the way up to Trump - but Flynn's plea deal at least suggests that Mueller is not on a major fishing expedition by looking at any related angle.

  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,044
    Looking in to Russian money flowing into the Trump campaign is one thing. Randomly stopping wealthy individuals coming into the United States and asking for voluntary cooperation to see if they gave any money to the Trump campaign is an entirely different matter altogether. Why not set up a phone bank and just cold-call rich Russians, seeing if any of them contributed?

    The Mueller Investigation has absolutely *zero* authority to arrest, much less question, Russian nationals.

    @smeagolheart I already know American citizens who are Muslim and own guns...and I don't think anything about it whatsoever. I hope only that they took the safety classes so they don't accidentally hurt anyone, including themselves. (I didn't ask them about that part.)
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137

    The Mueller Investigation has absolutely *zero* authority to arrest, much less question, Russian nationals.

    Was anyone arrested here? As far as questioning people in a voluntary interview, that doesn't require any special authority whatsoever.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited April 2018


    *************

    edit/add: Now the Mueller Investigation is *really* getting desperate--they are questioning Russian oligarchs (why they don't just say "business people", I don't know...I guess "oligarch" sounds more ominous), including searching their mobile devices, looking for any evidence of cash they may have sent to the Trump Campaign.

    I'm no expert but from what I can tell in Soviet Russia, billionaire own country.

    The corruption is so deep that a few oligarchs own billions of dollars due to corruption, monopoly and exploitation. The money these guys have is insane compared to the average person that can afford running water but not a car or more than a hole in the wall apartment - that sort of thing. There's these billionaires who got that way through cronyism and corruption and then there's a small middle class and there's a bunch of poor people who can't even afford to be allowed to eat cake.

    Again not an expert.

    Wikipedia tells me the term oligarch derives from Greek, and translates approximately as "rule by the few". Apparently in 2004 there were around 30 of them total. They nearly all have ties to the government as a means of amassing their wealth. Again believe it to involve bribery, corruption, misappropriation of taxes that sort of thing.

    Looking in to Russian money flowing into the Trump campaign is one thing. Randomly stopping wealthy individuals coming into the United States and asking for voluntary cooperation to see if they gave any money to the Trump campaign is an entirely different matter altogether. Why not set up a phone bank and just cold-call rich Russians, seeing if any of them contributed?

    The Mueller Investigation has absolutely *zero* authority to arrest, much less question, Russian nationals.

    @smeagolheart I already know American citizens who are Muslim and own guns...and I don't think anything about it whatsoever. I hope only that they took the safety classes so they don't accidentally hurt anyone, including themselves. (I didn't ask them about that part.)

    :) good answer haha.
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659

    Looking in to Russian money flowing into the Trump campaign is one thing. Randomly stopping wealthy individuals coming into the United States and asking for voluntary cooperation to see if they gave any money to the Trump campaign is an entirely different matter altogether. Why not set up a phone bank and just cold-call rich Russians, seeing if any of them contributed?

    The Mueller Investigation has absolutely *zero* authority to arrest, much less question, Russian nationals.

    @smeagolheart I already know American citizens who are Muslim and own guns...and I don't think anything about it whatsoever. I hope only that they took the safety classes so they don't accidentally hurt anyone, including themselves. (I didn't ask them about that part.)



    Yeah. I think there's an incredible difference between Mueller walking around with a microphone on the streets of Moscow asking if people knew Donald Trump, and the intentional vetting and evaluating of Russian billionaires with specific Kremlin ties to see if there's a link there.

    I dont know anything about him arresting those so-called oligarchs. Nothing was reported as being specifically illegal in their strategy - so why assume it was?

    It seems like you're assuming there's zero justification for Mueller to talk to whomever he's been talking to. I dont know if he does or doesnt, but I'm assuming some level of competency in the investigation.
This discussion has been closed.