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The Sword Coasts Not So Deadliest Warriors. ROUND 1

deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
edited July 2014 in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
Everyone can debate on who can win in a fight versus a Beholder and a Lich, but what about the bottom feeders of the XP chain? Which one holds the glory over all other minor annoyances.
If one of these creatures were pitted against each other, which one would come out on top. Elite versions do not count. Cast your vote, explain it and may the loser be chunked by the lvl 1 Warrior with a dagger.
  1. The Sword Coasts Not So Deadliest Warriors. ROUND 171 votes
    1. Kobolds
      70.42%
    2. Xvarts
      29.58%
«1

Comments

  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,437
    Kobolds - they've got archers (even without the commandos)
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited July 2014
    Kobold if he gets a critical hit on his first attack. Otherwise the xvart I think would win. Overall the Xvart is much more likely to win I think.

    Edit: Looks like the basic kobold just has a short sword. I'd have to entirely go with the Xvart then.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    Only two choices?
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,437
    @Mathsorcerer‌ - If they start at melee range, yes.

    Start at visible range, and the kobold with a shortbow should be able to get 2 arrows off before the xvart can close to melee (maybe more if he does some strategic hit & fade, but his script is likely too dumb for that). That means about a 50% chance of at least one arrow hitting (9% both arrows hit, 42% one arrow hits, 49% both miss), leaving the xvart seriously wounded before it even gets to swing its sword once.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,044
    The creature file kobold.cre doesn't have a shortbow assigned in its inventory so I didn't get into that. Yes, if the kobold is given a short bow and it takes 2 rounds for the xvart to close to melee then the kobold gets 4 shots, each of which has a 30% chance to hit. Missing all 4 times = [4 C 0](0.3)^0(0.7)^4 = .2401 so the kobold will probably hit at least once, which will seriously wound the xvart. 2 hits would likely put it down, given the expectation of damage = 2(3.5) = 7.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    Kobolds Commando are a real threat for Xvarts, unless they summon Ursa...
    deltago said:

    Tresset said:

    Only two choices?

    Pfft. Why do it all at once when you can go round by round world cup style.
    Uhm, every starting group has 3 participants, so I demand for another type of creature! (joking).
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    In deference to @Mathsorcerer - Kobolds have a much higher population of archers. That trumps any hand to hand stats provided. Arrows at range are the great leveler.
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    Once Ursa turns on the Xvarts, it's all over.
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,584
    edited July 2014
    the_spyder said:

    In deference to @Mathsorcerer - Kobolds have a much higher population of archers. That trumps any hand to hand stats provided. Arrows at range are the great leveler.

    This.

    Kobolds are no joke in BG1, especially for a low level party - during my last playthrough of BG:EE, a full health Minsc was obliterated by a single kobold arrow in the Nashkel mines.

    In fact, I don't think kobolds really deserve to be in this discussion - a much more fitting matchup would be xvarts vs. gibberlings or vs. tasloi IMO.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Kobolds have archers, hence they win by default, though on interrupted rests the Xvarts seem to spawn larger packs, but they can't really do anything to you.
    SharGuidesMyHand said:

    the_spyder said:

    In deference to @Mathsorcerer - Kobolds have a much higher population of archers. That trumps any hand to hand stats provided. Arrows at range are the great leveler.

    This.

    Kobolds are no joke in BG1, especially for a low level party - during my last playthrough of BG:EE, a full health Minsc was obliterated by a single kobold arrow in the Nashkel mines.

    In fact, I don't think kobolds really deserve to be in this discussion - a much more fitting matchup would be xvarts vs. gibberlings or vs. tasloi IMO.
    How soon do you go to the mines lol?? Or are you just playing at insane difficulty :P
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,584
    edited July 2014
    jjstraka34 said:



    How soon do you go to the mines lol?? Or are you just playing at insane difficulty :P

    I usually travel a straight path upon leaving Candlekeep, to the Friendly Arm, then Beregost, then Nashkel, then the mines. Minsc was probably still only level 1 (about 11 HPs) when he was killed.

    I typically play on core rules.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Yeah, Minsc is quite squishy at level one, I tend to put anything defensive on him as soon as possible if my front line is doing ok at the time. The fact that he is almost always using two-weapon style from the get go doesn't help either.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Yeah, tasloi are rubbish.

    Even Xan perks up a bit when fights one! Well, as perky as Xan gets.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    Well, if we are considering Ursa then Xvarts

    but otherwise those pesky Chihuahua from Hell would be more dangerous. Those arrows have one shot Imoen on more occasions that I can count.
  • kiwidockiwidoc Member Posts: 1,437
    edited July 2014
    Xvarts - their ungodly high pitched shrieking would mightily offend the kobold's dog-like sensitive hearing - hell they do it to me!
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,760
    Yip-yip-yip! We deadly... Grrr... Look, we no speak Common, alright? Yip-yip...We win... Grrrow!!!...
  • dustbubsydustbubsy Member Posts: 249
    One on one cage match, the Xvart every time. But the Kobolds use more sophisticated weaponry, at least in BG, and there are meant to be far more of them in the world than the Xvarts. So I have to give it to the Kobolds.
  • CaloNordCaloNord Member Posts: 1,809
    Why don't we summon 2 xvarts and 2 kobols, ctrl Q and make them fight to the death. ;)
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    I'd choose Tasloi, but since they aren't in this poll I'll go with blue-blooded royalty.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    I think the real answer to the question is, which do you see more of in BG2? The fact that you see Kobolds AT ALL in BG2 speaks to them not being a push-over, regardless of levels. Do we even see Xvarts in BG2?
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    If this poll is like a minnows World Cup elimination contest, then maybe we should be trying to find the weakest mobs in BG. Otherwise u'd have a problem of who qualifies? Gnolls? Bandits? Orcs? and "Powercreep" until we're no longer talking about minnows at all. So I say Xvarts "win" this round cos they'd lose to Kobolds.

    I don't know the ingame stats like @Mathsorcerer‌ but I know from experience, I was slaughtering Xvarts for fun in my first noobie run, whilst common Kobolds 1 shot my lv1 Sorc...
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    Ok, can't someone simply use summon monster 1 in the Xvart village and SEE?
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,044
    the_spyder said:

    In deference to @Mathsorcerer - Kobolds have a much higher population of archers. That trumps any hand to hand stats provided. Arrows at range are the great leveler.

    I don't disagree so it really all depends upon whether the kobold and the xvart are fighting melee. If fighting ranged, the xvart will close to melee, making the kobold's bow less than useless, presuming it survives that long. The xvart can survive one hit (even at full damage) so the kobold would need to hit twice, which (math not included; you'll have to take my word for it) gives it a 34.83% chance of hitting at least twice and killing the xvart. If the xvart is a betting xvart then it should bet that it can survive to close to melee, putting the odds well into its favor.



  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    @Mathsorcerer - all good points. There are other factors concerned as well. Are there multiple kobolds/Xvarts in the combat? Do they use any sort of combat tactics (like ganging up on one opponent at a time). Do they start at distance? Do they close, or merely run away (these are zero level monsters after all)?

    it's an interesting discussion in abstract, but there are far more variables than can be accounted for here.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,044
    edited July 2014
    @the_spyder‌ which is why I went with the simplest scenario: one kobold versus one xvart in melee.
  • ElrandirElrandir Member Posts: 1,664
    Whoops! I thought you chose which one sucked more. I think Kobolds would win!
  • gamer86gamer86 Member Posts: 7
    AstroBryGuy said:

    Kobolds - they've got archers (even without the commandos)

    This is my reasoning. Though the Xvarts did have the bear.....
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