I'm not saying it's a good solution, just that it will take me ~24-48 hours to code in exceptions, and this is something you can do for those 24-48 hours.
Sure, and removing them currently is good and fast solution. But it is why we talking here. I'm personally developer, but completely unfamiliar with modding toolchain, scripts and ways how some things can be done. How exceptions should be coded? By item code?
@subtledoctor thanks, and will try new fixes when have chance.
Btw, I'm follow SoB on github's so you don't need to point on specifically changed lines.
So... now it is clear with INT bonuses, but it is still exists some issues with them:
1. Character with 15 INT doesn't recieve bonus [301] effect which as i'm understand should reset modifier to zero. So char remains with -1 modifier.
2. Multiclasses still receive two [301] effects.
3. Probably have sense show full stat tables in all range: i'm found that 8 strength gives penalty. 7 CON gives penalty. I mean that this is differs from unmodded game, and can be important (Claws with CON-2 for example can be used before without penaly when you have only 9 CON, but now you will loose HP). Also bonuses after 21 also good be to know, because they differs again. I mean in-game description.
One of my chars has 19 INT, has two [301] effects with value 2. (It is one which i'm edited before, so now it is consistent with rules). It has two stars in Finesse. I'm taken weapon with no have proficiency (Katana). So critical hit should happens on hit rolls 16+? But actually it is happens on 15+ (but not on 14, checked), and i'm can't understand why. Other char, without Finesse but also with 19 INT achieve critical hit at 17+ roll. Strange. I'm not saying that it is depends from INT, just bit strange.
--- Random notes, which doesn't directly relies to SoB:
I'm finished Nashkel Mines without any issues. It has been bit complex for me on very first playthrough when i'm doesn't known many and i'm run to it probably with 5 chars, with Minsc but before rescuing Dynaheir. So I'm think i'm has level 1-2, and stuck only on last battle. Now, i'm have installed SCS with upgraded kobolts, but equipment gives me -3 or -4 effective AC against missiles (for one char), and there is so low, that it is virtually invincible for arrows. Bit later i'm found good boots so i now have -9 AC against arrows. This time i'm going to mines with 3 chars: F/M, M/T and C/M. All of them have 5/5 level. When you can cast lot of sleeps and other funny spells, you are small god. Even Mulahey was not big issue, and i'm just slash it without big care. When too much enemy skeletons - cleric helps. On other hand i'm now have SCS installed with short-time prebuff mages - this makes me unhappy - almost every mage requires to use some kind of "cheese". Hardest cases has been Silke (which i'm done on level 2 or 3), and really hardest case is just after Nashkel mines - Narcillicus Harwilliger Neen - which cast some kind of globe on self, and i'm no have big chance to dispel it or doesn't have enough time for it. And again "cheese" - invisible mage/thief goes to back to mage, and when battle just starts it is have small time before insta-buffs applied - and i'm attack it. After third reload thief makes instakill before any buffs. Whoa! 2 jellys has been grilled with 2x Agannazar's Schorchers with two sides with other two chars. Thief itselfs got too much damage from jellys and it is retreat. So, i'm will try SCS without short-time prebuffs. Doesn't know how they work in BG2, but in BG1 it is doesn't looks good. Anyway my heroes now have great amount of gold, good rep, have good equip, lot of useful spells which i'm found on-the gound. So now time is to buy new equipment (still doesn't buy anything valuable). Now i'm still without any magical ranged weapon, what's should be fixed asap. Anyway i'm just about to buy lot of cool equipment. One of mod (not sure which) adds Bag of Holdings - there is actually only one thing what necessary. Some of mod also adds new weapons, but i'm really not sure that it is have sense to buy "Red Fist Sabre" long sword with 30% chance of stun effect.
All my characters (3-person custom party) i'm tried to build near 90pts (87-89), but because they are multiclassed, they are greedy for points anyway. There is kind of elven mages team. Because INT actually gives bonus spells for mages and elves - i'm use it. I'm mostly dump strength, because it is easily can be raised with spells and/or equipment. Unfortunately there is no spells for buff dexterity and others. When it is possible (for example in NWN2), i'm going with more equally spreaded stats except INT of course. On other side while dex bonus goes into AC bonus of course any char want it. In comparison to NWN2 (DnD 3E)? armor type limits amount of dexterity what's added to AC, but doesn't decrease DEX itself, and it still can be applied for attacks with light weapons/etc. Because we going in other way in BG - looks like strength for me most universally dump stat. And most spells in BG just set STR value, instead of give bonus (i'm doesn't count cleirc's DUHM here because at this stage of game it doesn't give nothing valuable). Anyway no of my chars are true tanks, so they should avoid damage and utilize magic for offensive and defensive.
C/M: 9 17 9 19 18 17 Weapon of choice is staff, crossbow, and correspond fighting styles. I'm personally dislike crossbows, but... they have higher damage - they actually shines now in comparison to short bow. Also great crossbow available in shop with 2APR. So... good choice for C/M. INT and WIS will be increased with tomes.
M/T: 9 19 10 19 12 18 I'm trying to build dual with daggers. But it is also a primary archer. Unfortunately with small amount of pips - it is very big path to get 3 pips in dual-wielding. May be better use finesse and add additional pip into bows. Not sure. Going with 1 pip in daggers, bows, 2 in dual-wielding, without actual dual wielding. So... it is another 'long-term' build, and all of game it is can't use whatever it want. Probably i'm respec it later. DEX and CHA will be increased with tomes.
F/M: 11 18 14 19 9 16 Bows, finesse and long swords. Works well. Combination of bows and longswords with elf can't be bad. STR and CON will be increased with tomes.
M/T and F/M now wear light armor. It is playable at this levels with given casting speed penalty. May be sometimes it is not fast as i'm want, but on other side they are wear Telbar's Studded Armor (AC5, no dex penalty, DR 14%) or something like, and M/T will use Shadow Armor anyway. At very early stage of game F/M wear heaviest armor it can wear (probably chain). Even not a big DR i'm found reasonable. It is works for our chars and it is also works against our chars - heavy armored enemies now stays longer, and bitting it with bows doesn't work good as in unmodded game. Actually funny and cool! I'm tried wear armor with high DR and actually it is allow tanking much longer. So looks like now i'm totally like this.
Not sure how viable/funny my playthough will be later. Sometimes too many magic is disturbs. On other side party AI is also not a good (SCS's easy-of-use AI good, but it is stops attacks disabled enemies, but now i'm usually want something other - exactly attack disabled enemies). Spell choice in UI also horrible. So, lot of stupid microclicks, and this is not a directly caused by mage-oriented chars.
About armored robes (i mean any robe which has AC) - personally i'm never think about them as clothes. Any robe with reasonable high AC probably can be counted as leather armor with corresponding enchantment level (to reach AC). I'm not sure how it will affect balance, and what's community think about.
I'm tried wear 'robe' in real life once... it is actually "penaltize my DEX" in many ways, because just not practical in life (robe's arms can be catched by some surrounded objects, you can step with own legs on floors and if you unlucky enough - fall down).
@subtledoctor another issue - Shadow Armor (LEAT08.ITM) lost their Hide In Shadow bonus. Also i'm note, that appearance of armor changed... i.e. non-modified shadow armor is black on char. Modified items has 'leather' color.
3x set color (locations Armor/Trimming, Strap/Leather, Belt/Amulet) Hide in shadow bonus 4x AC bonus (not sure about them, near infinity doesn't decode them, probably is set for each damage type) Disable spellcating ...effects...
After SoB item contains: AC bonus 4x resistances ...effects...
So two questions:
1. Should new armor perform at same AC for each damage type? 2. We need return set color & hide in shadow bonuses 3. May be some others effects we should return...
2. & 3. - I figured it out! In that .tpa file, every time there is an instance of DELETE_EFFECT, change "opcode" to "match_opcode" and it will stop stripping effects from armors.
Whoa! I'm seen this place and not found nothing wrong in it. Now just for interest recheck weidu documentation, and for DELETE_EFFECT only match_opcode listed. In lib/delete_effect.tpa probably match everything if actual parameter not defined (defaults). What's why i'm love statically checked langs.
Fixed version looks good (robes and shadow armor). Btw, while armor now have own colors - bug with pinky colors on watchmens in candlekeep also fixed.
I'm thinking about start new game with Item Revisions v4 and Spell Revisions v4 and SCS... Unfortunately i'm bit confused with some SoB components (and additionally currently no have idea how to play at low levels because SR makes some spells like Sleep completely useless):
1. YARAS - because it is edit items aggressively and IR replaces items completely, there is probably better stick with IR's version. Or no? On other side it is not big difference for me - i'm going again with all multi-mages and mostly prefer robes.
2. Saving Throw Overhaul and Magic Resistance Overhaul - it is have sense to disable them, or it is okay with go with them? I'm previously go with them, but i'm has been at low content - so actually it is probably doesn't affect too much.
Any advices for IR+SR+SCS+SoB combination?
@subtledoctor I'm found tbtweaks mod which also changes stat spread in 3e way, i.e. STR gains bonuses from 12. Because IR alter all items which alter strength, there is only 'strength' spell just set strength. I.e. benefits from this kind items can be get only chars which have minimum 13 strength, and no benefit with 10 str for example. On other side their effects stackable with 'strength' spell. What's actually nice. Oh... originally i mean - why you choose current palette for stats? I'm readen that you make it like all-average char has no benefits at average rolls... But not sure that it is a strategy. Another issue with IR is that there is no way to gain INT. What means that any mage really want to have INT 19. INT 19 gives huge boost for critical hits. I'm just feel that it will be unbalanced, or at some moment i'm will start cheat with stats (to gain some physics).
Anyway i'm trying start another walkthrough. Previous (SCS+full SoB) has been very fine. I'm stopped somewhere at BG, got xp cap of course. Actually very nice feelings. (But SCS precast better to disable imho, mages anyway can use lot of abilities, Silke do 2-3 contingencies... and potions. And it is just from start a game. Later in combination with SR - when none of level 1 spell can disable it - it is pain again.)
I'm tried IR+SR+SCS with FMC+FMT - but it is has been like pain from start. Fast bears instakill me. And i'm can't go without killing any creature. Almost anyone can instakill me. May be it is because by revisited critical hit aversion, may be no. Actually doesn't have good CC spells. Feels very-very bad.
So, now i'm again trying IR+SR+SCS+SOB and return to MT+CM+FM or try again FMC+FMT... But just from start can't take decision on mods. Don't want be overpowered and at same time don't want to be under powered. Oh, and this time i will remove XP cap, to gain bit more spell levels.
Any suggestions?
Ugh. Thanks!
PS: I'm used BGEE on INSANE difficult, but i'm disable in options any difficulty-based damage increases. And max HP.
I've noticed the same bug, a newly created char with 19 int has both the <15int penalty (301 parameter 1 is -1 // ressource D5_CRIT0) and 19 int bonus (301 parameter 1 is 2 // ressource D5_CRIT3) which adds up to +1. I bashed imoen repeatedly to be sure, I only crit on 19+ instead of the intended 18+
charisma saving throw and luck bonuses are not updated when the character stats change. Whether it's temporary (ring of human influence) or permanent (bg1 Tome of Leadership and Influence).
i created a mage with 14 int, used tomes of intelligence to raise it to 17, then leveled up. I got some of the bonuses but not all of them : http://imgur.com/xRB65Ni (top is 17 int bottom is 14int) It skipped level 3 & 4 Also for some reason, i don't have the penalty to crit with 14 int
As I mentioned on github, there is no file for the 21 INT bonus (9th level spell slot)
Hi, i wanted to start a complete trilogy run with a F/M. It seems that YARAS doesn't quite work for me. The Dex-Penalty is applied and the armor descriptions mention the casting-speed penalty. But whenever I put any armor on my spellcasters it completely disables all spellcasting like in vanilla BG.
I installed SoB after pretty much all other mods. Any idea what could be causing this?
Mod List: -BG1NPC -BG1UnfinishedBusiness -Tweaks Anthology (without any of the things that mess with armor or classes) -Tome And Blood -Might And Guile -Scales of Balance -Soundsets -GUI overhaul
@kelthalas as i'm understand - anyone recieve -1 penalty. After that weapon styles and INT bonuses play. @subtledoctor say's in some posts before (not more than 10) that 301 parameter is not cumulative. In my tests i'm crit at one point higher than should, may be needed to recheck again.
Charisma bonus is applied only at character creation! So... only natural charisma is counted. This is noted in readme.
@subtledoctor i'm writing long post, but there is part from it. You probably already gathered with it, but i'm anyway post it (it is about incorrect crit modifier from INT):
I'm created two fighters: one with 15 INT, at 20 roll it is still not critical strike, but both 301 effects present (-1, then 0). Looks like 301 effects is actually modifier. So it is don't crit on INT 15. I'm edited effects with -20 and +20 - and i'm able to crit exactly on 20 roll, and not on 19. I'm edited effects with 1 and 1, and able to crit at 18+. So problem, that effects not added correctly by mod. Also, i'm feel wrong with criticals before, because multiclasses still receive 301 effect for each class. So... whoa. I'm actually had -1, +2 and +2 effects. And +2 from finesse style. It is looks like explains why i'm able crit previously at some unexpected rolls.
Also, there's a question of balance: if the DEX bonus is added *instead* of STR bonuses, then it adds a new layer (or three) of complexity; if it is in addition to the STR bonus, given the way people min-max in these games, it would be very OP.
Maybe just do +1 thac0 at 18 DEX, +2 at 20, +3 at 22, and +4 at 24. Something like that. We'll see.
I'm feel that it is should be "Weapon Finesse" like in NWN2: "Allows light weapons and rapiers to use dexterity modifier for attack rolls, instead of strength modifier allow apply DEX".
Light weapons in BG case i'm think should be short swords, daggers and wakizashi (piercing damage). And not hammers, not long swords, not katanas or scimitars. And not a quaterstaffs. But generally depends from you / feedback.
Mixing bonuses from STR and DEX is not a very good, but if DEX will provide only few thac0 bonuses... then it is probably okay. But how it is overpowered? It is will be much more powerful with Item Revisions and Elven thief. 19 DEX from start. +1 from Tome. +2 from Gloves of Dexterity (gives +2 DEX bonus). Whoa - we have 22 DEX and with bonuses will perform close to Fighter (without STR bonuses). On other hand any Fighter who start from 18, then +1 from Tome, then +2 from Golves of Strength (gives +2 STR) - also will perform better. Yep, relying only on additional DEX bonuses without STR - not make char OP. Only STR+DEX combo will do it.
With classic gloves situation different - you can dump this stat, and perform nicely. Of course if your char ready to rely on this specific gear. Dex available early in BG1, gloves of strength... well, very not early.
Basically i'm like IR's gloves which modify DEX/STR, instead of setting it. It is improve thief skills, it is improves AC. May be kind of imbalance for maxed STR/DEX builds, but on other hand - setting 18/00 with gloves - is is probably even more imbalanced. And finally - for my chars - IR's gloves of strength - not needed. I'm use low-strength multimages. But DEX gloves - yes. It is powerful. So, i'm use IR's dex gloves, or vanilla str gloves.
About SR: 1. There is still enough number of spells who just set STR to 18/xx, but first available Cleric's strength buff "Strength of One" gives only +2 bonus. No more low-level skeletons with 18/xx strength. Only 15+2 = 17. 2. DUHM is capped to +3 bonus. 3. But other high-level cleric spells can give you +4 or may be even +6. Anyway reaching 24/24/24 of course possible, but only if you stats are 18/18/18. STR of course can be dumped, and raised with anything what set it to 18/xx. Some spells stacks, but some not. So correct order is important. 4. "Friends" in SR is replaced with other spell. There is no more way to gain charisma, except Ring / Cloaks. I'm actually doesn't like this change. I'm want my Friends back (and new spell too ). In that case it is okay to do not cap price discounts at 20 CHA. 5. Luck spell is not stackable if i'm correctly understand.
About IR: Algernon's cloak - gives +1 CHA. Potions revised... there is no way to score INT. No potions of genius. Instead they restore last two casted 1-4 lvl spells. I'm want to write about bit more in other my post (which is unfinished). I mean, that with IR - as mages - we definitely want to create char with 19 INT. Be limited in number of memoized spells is not a big problem - but it is ruins fun of game: you need remove spells, learn new *if* you have scrolls. In BG1 it is not so many scrolls, but it is exists more than 18 spells for level 1, so 18 INT is not enough. If you newbie - it is especially important - when you hit new enemy you will think and try different spells. For my whole multi-class party mages - i'm completely not needed to have 19 INT for F/M - it is mainly fighter which self-buff, and eventually strikes damage spells, when it can effectively use it (like angazaar scorcher when it can make damage more than for one enemy). And there is really char who want STR & DEX to score AC and to-hit rolls and damage. So 15-17 INT is good points to score crits, and still can memoize any number of spells by using potions. So points in strength or even better in CON is useful (strength can be buffed easily, but CON is not). Otherwise it is have sense just cheat to 19 INT or even simpler - remove limit of memoized spells for 15+ INT. I'm like potions, because it is may be anyway simplifies gameplay, but this part at least remains. Again, is a way for temporary score criticals when you will be ready!
Well, looks like i'm already wrote some things about SR/IR. I'm think that IR should not be used blindly. It is has good / strongly designed items and clearly overpowered items from my feelings (for example like Sword of Flames or similar (in EE - descriptions corrupted) which now is Scimitar, deals 1d4 fire damage (good), and 10-20% probability of 20 fire damage. And this can be acquired very early without any investments (from simple quest). And... 20 probability-based fire damage - is actually huge for low-level content.
Some time gone, new playthrough started. And again dismissed. But have new thoughts and questions.
I'm now tried another setup (i'm do it in other install order, listed in importance order for discussion): 1. Scales of Balance 5.2.3a // IWO - Functional Weapon Tweaks: v5.2 // IWO - Light/Heavy Weapon Distinctions: v5.2 // WPO - Weapon Category Collapse: v5.2 // WPO - Systemic Proficiency Changes: v5.2 // WPO - Fighting Style Changes: v5.2 // WPO - APR on Spec: v5.2 // Revised XP Tables: v5.2
2. Item Revisions v4 beta 9 (almost everything included, except that covered by SoB's installed components). Most important here: // Allow Spellcasting in Armor -> With Casting Speed Penalties for Arcane Casters // Revised Shield Bonuses: V4 Beta 9 // Enchantment Doesn't Affect Speed Factor of Weapons: V4 Beta 9 // Revised Critical Hit Aversion: V4 Beta 9
3. Spell Revisions v4 beta 12
4. SCS (wizards/clerics never pre-cast short-duration spells, but next time will re-enable - archers easily interrupt mages, but some of them badasses all time like Silke)
5. Some well-known quest mods (BGQE, BG1UB, The Lure of the Sirine's Call, The Stone of Askavar, Ascalon's Questpack).
6. Some limited number of tweaks from Tweaks Anthology, atweaks, klatu and eet_tweaks, but no one of them has rule changes. And after some googling, i'm remove lot of things from them, because many things should be covered by SR, some by IR but actually not sure that IR really do it. Anyway it is not so important.
Well, i'm only finished Nashkel Mines and one location just after it. So i'm beat revenant in tomb (it is badass of course, my unprepared party died quickly - i'm forget that it can paralyze me easily, while lot of counterblasts has been available, and i'm beat it may be 6 times with different tactics with and without full SoB install - no dramatic changes here - it is understandable of course - it is paralyzes me or no). At this last location i'm reach level 5/5 for all of my 3-person multiclass mage party. Oh, and i'm even don't still complete seawatch (for good gear, - wand of paralyzation is must have thing to beat Albert and Ruffie). I'm beat Albert - but i'm not actually like how i'm do it in this playthrough: it is has been lot of reloads of course - problem was that IR replaces Evermemory ring with bonus to 1-4 level spells, instead of doubling, so i'm can't cast enough magic missilies. Without SoB - i'm have one slot less for each char - so it is becomes also harder. Yep, i'm of course have two wand of missiles, and some other wands, so it is can be done easily actually. But i'm like use only things what are natural. I.e. own spells for mages, swords and shields. Potions are consumables - so not in here. I'm strongly believe that this low-level part of game should be doable without too much troubles without using of any potion - and this is always has been true before. Proper wands probably trick here, but even without them i'm never stuck here before. This time found that two webs and cleric's spiritual hammer (as ranged weapon, because no one have ranged magical weapon / arrows which can hit daemon), and finishing with lot of kiting around cleric, while cleric just stay and tries to hit. And hit it only on 20 rolls. Heh. Meoow, but it is really ugly.
Because it is about 4 or 5-th playthrough for same piece of game (two times up to BG, other - after nashkel mines), i'm have new thoughts about balance including your mod.
Oh, short words about mods: now i'm install BGQE, BG1UB - and when i'm start play with it i'm found that i'm actually already know some quests. I'm really doesn't know from where...
1. Scales of Balance // Yet Another Revisited Armor
There is most important thing, and i'm think that you do it about right (or may be absolutely right).
1.1. Dexterity
Basically i'm like idea that only portion of DEX bonus can be applied for some type of armor. I.e. NWN-like.
But, i'm actually doesn't know if it is doable in BG with mods (probably it is doable, i'm seen mod who react on stat change and apply saves (ah, it is from tb#tweaks, but it is do it incorrectly at least for multiclasses (they applied twice)). Also it flood char effect table with same (or bit changed) rows... So it should be nightmare table for full playthrough. Additional rows appears when DEX-changing items wears. So, if it is no exists reliable mechanism - it is better to stay away from it.
At same time, DEX penalty limit ranged thac0 bonus, that... also not a bad. I'm strongly believe, that heavy armored fighter should rely on stregth and melee weapon, and situationally fallback to ranged. So... to have "truly neutral" 10 in DEX we should have at least 14 DEX (if not rely on enchanted armor). Actual values different, i'm not sure what file is correct / purposes: dexmod.2da or dexmo2.2da? (I mean revisited stats). Looks like dexmo2.2da is used by my game. It is allow use Full Plate Armor without penalties even with 10 DEX. So 18 DEX char still recieve -1 AC bonus. Have sense with enchanted armors - less penalties for DEX - twice AC output from enchantment. So, this work for high-DEX and low-DEX characters. But what i'm like: 19-DEX based char is not recieve full DEX bonus with full plate. So... if you want build low-AC character it is still have sense invest in full DEX. But this is will not be a dramatic change. On other side -6 AC at 19 DEX vs -4 AC for classic stats? Looks like you are boost high dex by two points at 19, then it raised slower up to -9 at 25. It is correct that this bonuses also applied to creatures too? dexmod.2da lists other bonuses (bit lower bonuses). Basically i'm okay with this boost, if it is used for enemies too - this makes them more powerful, but it is should be okay (balanced, and from previous trips it has been fine).
Anyway be fighter in heavy armor - DEX requirements is not so high, according dexmod.2da - 10 DEX enough to do not hit in penalties. It is really not a requirement.
On other side - i'm probably already say this: natural (DEX-based) AC bonus should be mostly available for light armors (and/or magically enchanted), i mean most efficient use of natural bonus - should be available only for magic armor (and/or that greatly covered with any studded leather +2 armor). So i'm see good synergy here: DEX penalty, natural AC bonus, armor and magic armor. Any class who need heavy armor - doesn't need high DEX (and rarely have), but will use it too.
On other side let's speak a bit about fighter/mage-like characters: Spell Revisions introduces few changes here: 1. Magic Armor - starts with 6AC like in vanilla, and then progress up to 3AC at 12th level (what is actually is long path for multiclass). I like it, it is definitely makes this spell useful everytime with IR-like Robes, which doesn't provide AC (and only Robe of Battlemage provide 2AC bonus), so: yep, i like it - not bad basic AC's with lot of things what can raise it. 2. Shield - now it gives 2AC *bonus* and 4AC bonus vs missiles (and protection from magic missiles). There is also looks good.
Other better spells exists of course, Ghost Armor gives base 2AC, but only 2 hours, that shift it to more combat-oriented spell (and additionally gives +20% hide in shadow bonus, so mage/thief can like it). Other standard buffs not an armor, or not very practical at least for me (Spirit Armor).
So, for 19 DEX character... Fighter/Mage can achieve: - At level 1: 6 from Magic Armor, -6 DEX bonus: 0 AC for 8 hours! This is great. - And up to -3 at level 12. - Shield is combat-time buff, but this gives even at level 1: -2AC and -4AC vs missiles. Great for level 1. On other side this occupy two slots, - so it is really way for f/m, because no more slots for cast early. On other side - in BG1 under XP cap - it doesn't be better than -3/-5. Blur and other can low it even more of course, but i'm doesn't count them, because any F/M want them in heavy fights, and because 20 roll is always hit - we never will have "enough" AC or HP. - Full Plate Armor: gives 0AC (2-2, 4 dex penaltized). - Ankheg Plate Mail: -2AC. No spells needed (and F/M of course use Shield anyway for protect from magic missiles). But it is still can lower to -4AC also very early (or using other armor). It is winner here. Enchanted... - Shadow armor gives same results, because it is uses full DEX bonus. So Mage/Thief, for example gives same AC, which actually want high DEX much more than others (for raising skills). - Mastercraft Chain Mail gives 0AC. - Telbar's Studded Leather: -1AC. So we see that light +2 armor works greater, than full plate for example. Thanks for high DEX bonus.
So... Investment in DEX is still very good for AC for any char with armor or without. It is doesn't give very big difference between armor types, but they are begins be distinctive. High dex chars gives more bonuses than i'm feel adequate, but they missile thac0 reduced, so no more too efficient heavy armored archers.
I'm understand that this is from min-max point.
1.2. Damage Resistance
Another thing: i'm think that damage resistance is also absolutely right thing. As i'm mention before - it is work on us, and against us. Kicking armored enemies begins much more harder / longer (what changes battles), especially with dagger or short bow, when it is already doesn't have big damage output. So, may be it is not a greatly balanced, but it is feel very good for me.
Yep, i'm not tried SoB (YARAS i mean) with SR, - SR's shield is can be "cheesy" at lower levels: SR shield give 2AC bonus, SoB's gives 2AC difference at 19DEX. But it is greatly compenstated by absense ultimate low-level disablers. I mean sleep. Sleep effect much shorter, enemies wake up if they hit. It is still useful for temporary disabling, but it is not ultimate, and bears for example don't fall in sleep. And even if fall - it is not allow to kick it from range with bows until death - it is awake and instakill level 1-2 chars easily. For kobolds - sleep is good if it is fall them all, but if not? In battle with Mulahey i'm previously used only cleric/mage to sleep kobolds, and don't allow going skeletons (via turn undead) to run into room. At last time, i'm used webs - longer duration / better effect. So, even in comparison to vanilla, we achieve (i mean buffed with shield char and 19 dex) total of 4 AC boost - it is huge, but doesn't change fact that 5-6-10 kobolts can hit you with arrows easily, or 3-5 xvarts can still hit you before they will be kill. At least because of 20 rolls always hit (actually they crit you relatively fastly (i mean kobolts) even if i'm in ankheg plate, shield + blur, so it is not a way to stupidly "tank" their damage, even with low AC). With poison and/or fire arrows it is will be painfully for PC (or even death very quickly). So, i'm bit confused, but think that this should be okay. Previous runs without SR and IR (so i'm have Elven Bane (+3 vs missiles, and something other what protect from missiles, so they almost never hit me)) - basically i'm just going with sword to break their formations, and other backsiders kills them with bows fastly. Has been much easier. May be it is because of DR and critical hit protection from helmets. About criticals bit later. Generally just need try again with SR+SoB and may be parts of IR.
1.3. Spell Casting Penalties
For multiclassed mages it works well. One thing what i'm doesn't like in Item Revisions - is that penalties is too low. I'm played with F/M in Ankheg Plate Mail and doesn't feel big disadvantages. In IR's it is +2 penalty. In SoB it is +4. From previous trips over Sword Coast, i'm found that +2 penalty is near comfortable boundary. I.e. it is fast enough to cast fast spells (casting time 1), it is still near comfortable to cast something with casting time 3 (but you actually can be interrupted). +4 makes that you probably don't want to cast long duration spells when you surrounded / under fire, but going into battle with heavy armor even if you are F/M it is completely not a bad idea. But in SoB i'm do it in leather, not in Ankheg. So, as for me - Item Revisions do it wrong / this part ruined, because anyone can go with heavy armor with acceptable penalties. So, looks like SoB's casting time penalties is right or close to them. May be penalties even can be increased, but i'm don't will be this say, because i'm still not tried how it work in high-level content.
1.4. Movement Speed Penalties
It is not a big game change, but i'm liked how it is work in Item Revisions. But again, i'm think that leather/studded should not have penalties, or at least at enchanted or unique items (i.e. like Shadow Armor), and more heavier armors - should. But i'm also found that there is no bit changes in game. On other hand IR has revisited movement rates (for items - boots of speed should be only +5 bonus, not doubling, if i'm not mistaken). Basically I'm like this part.
Now few words about IR's Armor System, and why i'm interrupt playthrough: it is looks good, but act as overpowered, and probability-based again. I'm found that i'm dislike it. As i'm say above - casting speed penalties - too low. Critical hits aversion - idea is good, but in practice - it is limits you to few armors which protect from criticals hits, because this effect extremely rare, but if game play fair - this makes any creatures with helmets also not protected from criticals. From my feelings it is wrong. At same time lot of content you never be protected. And after - fighter will stick to probably not very suitable armor. And PC at same time (let's assume we buffed F/M) - when recieve hit, it is eventually will be near or almost critical (proper equipment + buffs - we can be invincible for arrows, except criticals). And then 2, may be 3 critical hits and you are dead. It is still playable, but (IMHO) they do it again wrong (putting protection to some unique armor). Even if someone want remove this protection from all helmets, - creatures should be protected as they should, and it is more better put this properties at least for unique helmets. It is just my feelings. May be creatures remains protected? Hm, doesn't remember log entries that critical hit averted. With normal helmets it is happens. Technically i'm not found that this is really better: we just die often for example from 10 kobold which shoot arrows into you, but at same time - i'm found that lot of fights with named good equiped enemies is much easier (i mean Vax-like and others)... from many factors. Previously it is has been challenge for me. I'm not apply new strategies. No. With SR+IR and even their critical hits aversion - is just easier. But only if you lucky and don't recieve hit. If you unlucky - it is direct way to reload.
I'm had to say something about too many criticals, but actually problem is in bug. We already discuss it above.
One interesting thing from scored criticals from INT is that this allow crit more often... with bows!
So, basically after recheck, i'm think that your's critical bonuses is good. Anyway - it is needed to be hit enemy first. For my multiclass characters thac0 is not so great, except F/M, i'm don't think that additional +10% to crit can ruin a balance. On other hand - my characters are high-DEX - so they are perfect archers. And there is again weak part of IR - with SoB i'm scratching until death any heavy armored enemy with shortbow (actually i'm use different: shortbow, longbow and crossbow). Without DR - it is trivialized. Baby wyvern also trivialized for somehow. So, with SoB my main damage comes from F/M in melee attack (even without STR bonus - F/M with longsword has bigger damage rolls). And after some point - all damage output from my chars has been about equal - this is because better equipment for C/M (Army Scythe with 2APR and 2d4 is actually very good).
As for bonus mage spells - i'm think it is also good thing. This is makes game more easy as playing mage... by easy i mean more funny, because mage never have enough memoized spells. Additionally IR replaces (i'm already say?) Evermemory to bonus 1-4 level spells instead of double level 1 spells - this is also more useful, but prevent you from having 10 level 1 spell slots (so no have MM battery). Btw, ring doubles natural number of spells, and not a bonus spells. I.e. when you have 3 slots - with Evermemory - you will have 2*2+1=5 slots, but not 6. So finally - 9 slots, not 10. Anyway, i'm doesn't feel that bonus spells is wrong thing. It is small addition makes mages bit stronger earlier. And i'm never liked huge difference in spell count for clerics for example. So, like it. Addictive.
1.6. Weapon Styles
I'm generally like whole weapon proficiency overhaul and steeped progression... But there is has some comments.
Excellent style: improves AC, improves THAC0, improves critical chance. Actually excellent choice for eveyone who can get it. Only 2 pips and so great improvements at early stages of game, especially when we doesn't have enough THAC0. One of my favourite styles.
And let's again return to F/M with 19 INT - it will have 20% "natural" critical chance (rolls 16+). I'm not sure how this important/cheesy. I mean, i'm previously did not feel that my F/M too powerful, it long time stick with 1 APR, so damage output is bigger for creatures who not immune to criticals... but rare hits at begin doesn't make from they killing machine even with 25% crits which has been used in my previous game.
1.6.2. Shield-Fighting
- (+) = +1 thac0, -1 AC - (++) = +2 thac0, -2 AC (and critical hits occurs on 19 or 20, instead of just 20)
About critical hits it is from in-game description. It is missed in readme. I'm personally doesn't use it, because no have characters who use shields. But again - it is only 2 pips, reachable early and improvements as with Finesse. I.e. with or without criticals - it is still strong choice. stylbonu.2da contains criticals only for finesse, btw.
Not so strong as, Finesse, because doesn't scores AC and criticals (at least in description), but for Cleric/Mage with Quaterstaffs (AC -1) - must-have/good combo. Actually for Cleric/Mage i'm invest in Finesse and Two-Hand Style.
1.6.4. Dual-Wielding
- ( ) = -5 main-hand thac0, and -3 off-hand thac0 - (+) = -4 main-hand thac0, and -2 off-hand thac0 - (++) = -3 main-hand thac0, and -1 off-hand thac0 - (+++) = -2 main-hand thac0, and no penalty to off-hand thac0
And... there is most hard fighting style. At least for Mage/Thief: 3 pips it can achieve not so fast (without having 3pips in style it is no have sense use it at all - thac0 is much more important, than APR at this stage of game - who need APR when only 5% of hits?). Also i'm have installed distinctions between light/heavy weapons, so actual -3 penalty - stick with light weapons for better thac0. Hey! With 3 pips we still have huge penalty in main hand. And not so many ways to improve THAC0. I mean, that other styles gives thac0 bonuses - this weapon style - reduce thac0. When M/T can get full DW - it is no more get any pips in BG1 (under XP cap). So... M/T at level 6/6 have 3 pips, and 17/15 thac0 with +2 daggers (and can't actually use DW until get 3 pips). Yep, two daggers is great from APR side (1.5 + 1.5 actually gives 3, at level 7 with APR on Spec it will be 7/2, and eventually at 13 level - 4 APR only with daggers, and it is without any special +APR weapon). So... M/T probably shines, but much-much later when thac0 becomes lower, we gain additional attacks, and invest proficiency points into daggers (13/13 level it is probably somewhere more close to end of SoA?). It is without strength bonuses, which my mages doesn't have - i'm already max at least two stats (DEX+INT), and M/T is excellent bowman, except that have only 1 pip in bows at this stage. May be it is something interesting, but... whole BG1 it can't melee, still have 1pip in bows, big part of SoA it is probably still can't melee in DW. And after what i'm not sure that it is can melee. 15 THAC0 with single dagger (+2) without finesse. But finesse can provide 13 THAC0 with same weapon. With finesse it is able to go in melee from start. For level 6 i'm think it is valuable. Of course hits always are bit random, but... Well, if we Elf, we can use elven weapons for better thac0, but it is still be low, and loosing in APR. Yep, it is get great ability: backstabbing, and hitting from shadow grants +4 bonus to attack roll, but there is still not huge / anyway not always possible. And this is only for first attack, as i'm see, so it is have sense to improve chances to hit in any ways for attack, and not flood by attacks until attack roll is becomes 20 (because flood is possible only after 13 lvl). And there is not many ways to improve thac0. Magic of course helps here, but enemies scaled too. SR also gives for us "True Strike" - +10 bonus to thac0 for next round. Sounds great, but it is doesn't looks as very useful at beginning - i'm can't hit tight enemy anyway, and 1-2 rounds is enough to get be killed in open fight from one hit (mercenary in Red Sheaf Inn, it is really hard low-level fight, because it is usually gulp potion of strenght, cleric sometimes can debuff it with Doom, but it is still not enough, and again Command is absolutely useless with SR: because command is only for round, is too short, and immediately awaiking from hit - even if it fall to sleep, - cause that it is awake and in same round with big chances instakill attacker). So it is better to put just missile to take at least of any guaranteed damage or colorspray or everything what work nearly stable, or shocking grasp for example, or just take shield (choices actually is not so many for this level). But anyway lot of varieties are possible. Well, even if leave that DW is does not reach zero penalties with light weapons (or even bonuses) - this style also doesn't grant any critical chance modifiers (or it is just missed from description?), and also doesn't grant AC bonuses as all others styles do. I'm tried M/T with both fighting styles, and Finesse looks much stronger - able to use heavier weapons for backstab, daggers still good because higher APR. AC bonus helps in open fights. Even with mods (IR) who grants backstab penalties for normal/large weapons - it is still better to hit with weapon which do more damage, it is multiplied, and it is more than dagger + bigger multiplier (i.e. something like 10x3=30 with scimitar vs 4x4=16). My main point, that this weapon style in comparison to others weapon styles has more cons than pros: - (-) requires 1 more pip (and they are rare...) - (-) no 2 AC bonus - (-) no 2 thac0 bonus - (+) gives +1 or +1.5 APR from off-hand weapon, and/or off-hand weapon effects What gives hard to develop progression: finesse works with all weapons, DW mainly works with light weapons. We, as M/T can put 3 pips in a specific weapon proficiency. With DW - any proficiencies delayed (which also helps with thac0 and APR). So... may be have sense to get 3 pips in daggers proficiency first instead of DW, and then DW. But anyway it is still delayed. May be for F/T this works really greater, or in BG2 DW shines. I'm will focus on Finesse instead. It is solid. And, basically i'm like normal-sized weapons bit more than daggers, but daggers with 1.5 APR is also cool. Especially dagger of venom (both EE and IR versions is strong, IR looks bit better (not so powerful, allow saves, but still good)).
// Personally i'm dislike dual-wielding style. I'm personally take few short lessons for sword fighting, and like it is impossible to shooting from dual pistols (technically of course it is possible, like and wielding two swords) - i'm think that it is actually impossible to fight with two swords (even short), may be daggers... but not short swords. It is already requires lot of strength, and maneuvers. I'm can't imagine how DW people can parry "power attack" from long sword with one hand. But may be some one can do it. Don't know. Also i'm dislike "great swords". There is no difference except length/weight between long and great swords - both of them normally wielded with two hands. Of course, we are in game. I'm just tried DW in BG to make chars more distinctive.
Also annoying thing, that in SCS Easy-of-Use script doesn't switch to melee/ranged weapon from hot keys if char is DW. Bug. BTW: In NWN if you wield single-handed weapon, like long sword, and second hand is free, it is uses it as two-handed automatically, and apply 1.5x STR bonus.
I'm tried to offer change this style somehow, but now while i'm wrote lot of text - i'm found that i'm doesn't know how. Have sense to try this style at BG2... Most important note, that this is not usable in BG1 part by M/T - penalties too high. Fighters and F/T should feel better, but in BG1 it is should not be a great difference, because of low base thac0. So, main thing that may be it can be buffed: reach maximum at second pip, and/or limit only to light weapons, and/or finish without any penalties. No have idea. I'm doesn't try it with pure fighters, so may be they work better here. But i'm doesn't believe in that. Sorry for many chars for nothing.
1.6.5. Cleric/Mage
Gaining pip each 5 levels... is really slow. From my feelings - it is can be speeded up a bit. Or provide 1-2 more pips at start. I want to cover some cleric-specific weapons like war hammer, weapon styles, and other weapons which it may be want to use. For example, from start now i'm take: Finesse, Two-Hand Fighting, Crossbow, Quaterstaff, Mace/Club. But i'm also want to have war hammer. It is actually affects on thac0 of spiritual hammer (don't know bug it is or no). Spiritual hammer has strange THAC0 bonus, which sometimes appears differently. So basically there i'm still use classic cleric weapons except crossbow. On other side - i'm absolutely loose crushing ranged damage in my party. I.e. crossbow vs sling. If it will have bit more pips at start - it should not ruin gameplay, just pick additionally war hammer, and for example sling. Just really for more better weapon choices. It is just my personal side - it is okay to pick war hammer instead of mace/club. Anyway - i feel that it can't cover everything what i want easily, while other classes do it, and i'm have some points which actually not use (and pick in some weapons, which i'm will not use anyway). It is just thoughts.
Well, it is enough for today. It is not clearly completed, to be continued... Sorry, English is not my native, so it is hard to write and badly written, and i'm wast lot of time for this.
Anyway Scales of Balance (with all components) feels very strong and good for me. Thanks!
Comments
When I'm create char with 19 INT i have effects: [301] -1 crit modifier, then [301] +2 and [301] +2. What's gives +3 modifier, as it described.
When I'm create char with 17 INT i have effects: [301] -1 crit modifier, then [301] +1 and [301] +1. What's gives +1 modifier, instead of +2.
PS: I'm fix it with EEKeeper.
Btw, I'm follow SoB on github's so you don't need to point on specifically changed lines.
So... now it is clear with INT bonuses, but it is still exists some issues with them:
1. Character with 15 INT doesn't recieve bonus [301] effect which as i'm understand should reset modifier to zero. So char remains with -1 modifier.
2. Multiclasses still receive two [301] effects.
3. Probably have sense show full stat tables in all range: i'm found that 8 strength gives penalty. 7 CON gives penalty. I mean that this is differs from unmodded game, and can be important (Claws with CON-2 for example can be used before without penaly when you have only 9 CON, but now you will loose HP). Also bonuses after 21 also good be to know, because they differs again. I mean in-game description.
One of my chars has 19 INT, has two [301] effects with value 2. (It is one which i'm edited before, so now it is consistent with rules). It has two stars in Finesse. I'm taken weapon with no have proficiency (Katana). So critical hit should happens on hit rolls 16+? But actually it is happens on 15+ (but not on 14, checked), and i'm can't understand why. Other char, without Finesse but also with 19 INT achieve critical hit at 17+ roll. Strange. I'm not saying that it is depends from INT, just bit strange.
--- Random notes, which doesn't directly relies to SoB:
I'm finished Nashkel Mines without any issues. It has been bit complex for me on very first playthrough when i'm doesn't known many and i'm run to it probably with 5 chars, with Minsc but before rescuing Dynaheir. So I'm think i'm has level 1-2, and stuck only on last battle. Now, i'm have installed SCS with upgraded kobolts, but equipment gives me -3 or -4 effective AC against missiles (for one char), and there is so low, that it is virtually invincible for arrows.
All my characters (3-person custom party) i'm tried to build near 90pts (87-89), but because they are multiclassed, they are greedy for points anyway. There is kind of elven mages team.
When it is possible (for example in NWN2), i'm going with more equally spreaded stats except INT of course. On other side while dex bonus goes into AC bonus of course any char want it. In comparison to NWN2 (DnD 3E)? armor type limits amount of dexterity what's added to AC, but doesn't decrease DEX itself,
and it still can be applied for attacks with light weapons/etc. Because we going in other way in BG - looks like strength for me most universally dump stat.
Anyway no of my chars are true tanks, so they should avoid damage and utilize magic for offensive and defensive.
C/M: 9 17 9 19 18 17
Weapon of choice is staff, crossbow, and correspond fighting styles.
I'm personally dislike crossbows, but... they have higher damage - they actually shines now in comparison to short bow. Also great crossbow available in shop with 2APR. So... good choice for C/M.
INT and WIS will be increased with tomes.
M/T: 9 19 10 19 12 18
I'm trying to build dual with daggers. But it is also a primary archer. Unfortunately with small amount of pips - it is very big path to get 3 pips in dual-wielding. May be better use finesse and add additional pip into bows. Not sure. Going with 1 pip in daggers, bows, 2 in dual-wielding, without actual dual wielding. So... it is another 'long-term' build, and all of game it is can't use whatever it want. Probably i'm respec it later.
DEX and CHA will be increased with tomes.
F/M: 11 18 14 19 9 16
Bows, finesse and long swords. Works well. Combination of bows and longswords with elf can't be bad.
STR and CON will be increased with tomes.
M/T and F/M now wear light armor. It is playable at this levels with given casting speed penalty. May be sometimes it is not fast as i'm want, but on other side they are wear Telbar's Studded Armor (AC5, no dex penalty, DR 14%) or something like, and M/T will use Shadow Armor anyway. At very early stage of game F/M wear heaviest armor it can wear (probably chain). Even not a big DR i'm found reasonable. It is works for our chars and it is also works against our chars - heavy armored enemies now stays longer, and bitting it with bows doesn't work good as in unmodded game. Actually funny and cool! I'm tried wear armor with high DR and actually it is allow tanking much longer. So looks like now i'm totally like this.
Not sure how viable/funny my playthough will be later. Sometimes too many magic is disturbs. On other side party AI is also not a good (SCS's easy-of-use AI good, but it is stops attacks disabled enemies, but now i'm usually want something other - exactly attack disabled enemies). Spell choice in UI also horrible.
About armored robes (i mean any robe which has AC) - personally i'm never think about them as clothes. Any robe with reasonable high AC probably can be counted as leather armor with corresponding enchantment level (to reach AC). I'm not sure how it will affect balance, and what's community think about.
I'm tried wear 'robe' in real life once... it is actually "penaltize my DEX" in many ways, because just not practical in life (robe's arms can be catched by some surrounded objects, you can step with own legs on floors and if you unlucky enough - fall down).
3x set color (locations Armor/Trimming, Strap/Leather, Belt/Amulet)
Hide in shadow bonus
4x AC bonus (not sure about them, near infinity doesn't decode them, probably is set for each damage type)
Disable spellcating
...effects...
After SoB item contains:
AC bonus
4x resistances
...effects...
So two questions:
1. Should new armor perform at same AC for each damage type?
2. We need return set color & hide in shadow bonuses
3. May be some others effects we should return...
Fixed version looks good (robes and shadow armor). Btw, while armor now have own colors - bug with pinky colors on watchmens in candlekeep also fixed.
Thanks!
1. YARAS - because it is edit items aggressively and IR replaces items completely, there is probably better stick with IR's version. Or no? On other side it is not big difference for me - i'm going again with all multi-mages and mostly prefer robes.
2. Saving Throw Overhaul and Magic Resistance Overhaul - it is have sense to disable them, or it is okay with go with them? I'm previously go with them, but i'm has been at low content - so actually it is probably doesn't affect too much.
Any advices for IR+SR+SCS+SoB combination?
@subtledoctor I'm found tbtweaks mod which also changes stat spread in 3e way, i.e. STR gains bonuses from 12. Because IR alter all items which alter strength, there is only 'strength' spell just set strength. I.e. benefits from this kind items can be get only chars which have minimum 13 strength, and no benefit with 10 str for example. On other side their effects stackable with 'strength' spell. What's actually nice. Oh... originally i mean - why you choose current palette for stats? I'm readen that you make it like all-average char has no benefits at average rolls... But not sure that it is a strategy. Another issue with IR is that there is no way to gain INT. What means that any mage really want to have INT 19. INT 19 gives huge boost for critical hits. I'm just feel that it will be unbalanced, or at some moment i'm will start cheat with stats (to gain some physics).
Anyway i'm trying start another walkthrough. Previous (SCS+full SoB) has been very fine. I'm stopped somewhere at BG, got xp cap of course. Actually very nice feelings. (But SCS precast better to disable imho, mages anyway can use lot of abilities, Silke do 2-3 contingencies... and potions. And it is just from start a game. Later in combination with SR - when none of level 1 spell can disable it - it is pain again.)
I'm tried IR+SR+SCS with FMC+FMT - but it is has been like pain from start. Fast bears instakill me. And i'm can't go without killing any creature.
So, now i'm again trying IR+SR+SCS+SOB and return to MT+CM+FM or try again FMC+FMT... But just from start can't take decision on mods. Don't want be overpowered and at same time don't want to be under powered.
Any suggestions?
Ugh. Thanks!
PS: I'm used BGEE on INSANE difficult, but i'm disable in options any difficulty-based damage increases. And max HP.
I've noticed the same bug, a newly created char with 19 int has both the <15int penalty (301 parameter 1 is -1 // ressource D5_CRIT0) and 19 int bonus (301 parameter 1 is 2 // ressource D5_CRIT3) which adds up to +1. I bashed imoen repeatedly to be sure, I only crit on 19+ instead of the intended 18+
charisma saving throw and luck bonuses are not updated when the character stats change. Whether it's temporary (ring of human influence) or permanent (bg1 Tome of Leadership and Influence).
i created a mage with 14 int, used tomes of intelligence to raise it to 17, then leveled up.
I got some of the bonuses but not all of them : http://imgur.com/xRB65Ni (top is 17 int bottom is 14int) It skipped level 3 & 4
Also for some reason, i don't have the penalty to crit with 14 int
As I mentioned on github, there is no file for the 21 INT bonus (9th level spell slot)
that's it for today's bug report
I installed SoB after pretty much all other mods. Any idea what could be causing this?
Mod List:
-BG1NPC
-BG1UnfinishedBusiness
-Tweaks Anthology (without any of the things that mess with armor or classes)
-Tome And Blood
-Might And Guile
-Scales of Balance
-Soundsets
-GUI overhaul
Charisma bonus is applied only at character creation! So... only natural charisma is counted. This is noted in readme. Probably your's weapon style cover this?
for int or wis, I noticed casting level bonus (191). that could be interesting (if it works)
there are 3 WIS tomes, if casting level bonus doesn't stack that won't work
I'm created two fighters: one with 15 INT, at 20 roll it is still not critical strike, but both 301 effects present (-1, then 0). Looks like 301 effects is actually modifier. So it is don't crit on INT 15. I'm edited effects with -20 and +20 - and i'm able to crit exactly on 20 roll, and not on 19. I'm edited effects with 1 and 1, and able to crit at 18+. So problem, that effects not added correctly by mod. Also, i'm feel wrong with criticals before, because multiclasses still receive 301 effect for each class. So... whoa. I'm actually had -1, +2 and +2 effects. And +2 from finesse style. It is looks like explains why i'm able crit previously at some unexpected rolls.
Light weapons in BG case i'm think should be short swords, daggers and wakizashi (piercing damage). And not hammers, not long swords, not katanas or scimitars. And not a quaterstaffs.
Mixing bonuses from STR and DEX is not a very good, but if DEX will provide only few thac0 bonuses... then it is probably okay. But how it is overpowered? It is will be much more powerful with Item Revisions and Elven thief. 19 DEX from start. +1 from Tome. +2 from Gloves of Dexterity (gives +2 DEX bonus). Whoa - we have 22 DEX and with bonuses will perform close to Fighter (without STR bonuses). On other hand any Fighter who start from 18, then +1 from Tome, then +2 from Golves of Strength (gives +2 STR) - also will perform better.
With classic gloves situation different - you can dump this stat, and perform nicely. Of course if your char ready to rely on this specific gear. Dex available early in BG1, gloves of strength... well, very not early.
Basically i'm like IR's gloves which modify DEX/STR, instead of setting it. It is improve thief skills, it is improves AC. May be kind of imbalance for maxed STR/DEX builds, but on other hand - setting 18/00 with gloves - is is probably even more imbalanced. And finally - for my chars - IR's gloves of strength - not needed. I'm use low-strength multimages. But DEX gloves - yes. It is powerful. So, i'm use IR's dex gloves, or vanilla str gloves.
About SR:
1. There is still enough number of spells who just set STR to 18/xx, but first available Cleric's strength buff "Strength of One" gives only +2 bonus. No more low-level skeletons with 18/xx strength. Only 15+2 = 17.
2. DUHM is capped to +3 bonus.
3. But other high-level cleric spells can give you +4 or may be even +6. Anyway reaching 24/24/24 of course possible, but only if you stats are 18/18/18. STR of course can be dumped, and raised with anything what set it to 18/xx. Some spells stacks, but some not. So correct order is important.
4. "Friends" in SR is replaced with other spell. There is no more way to gain charisma, except Ring / Cloaks. I'm actually doesn't like this change. I'm want my Friends back (and new spell too
5. Luck spell is not stackable if i'm correctly understand.
About IR:
Algernon's cloak - gives +1 CHA.
Potions revised... there is no way to score INT. No potions of genius. Instead they restore last two casted 1-4 lvl spells. I'm want to write about bit more in other my post (which is unfinished). I mean, that with IR - as mages - we definitely want to create char with 19 INT. Be limited in number of memoized spells is not a big problem - but it is ruins fun of game: you need remove spells, learn new *if* you have scrolls. In BG1 it is not so many scrolls, but it is exists more than 18 spells for level 1, so 18 INT is not enough. If you newbie - it is especially important - when you hit new enemy you will think and try different spells. For my whole multi-class party mages - i'm completely not needed to have 19 INT for F/M - it is mainly fighter which self-buff, and eventually strikes damage spells, when it can effectively use it (like angazaar scorcher when it can make damage more than for one enemy). And there is really char who want STR & DEX to score AC and to-hit rolls and damage. So 15-17 INT is good points to score crits, and still can memoize any number of spells by using potions. So points in strength or even better in CON is useful (strength can be buffed easily, but CON is not). Otherwise it is have sense just cheat to 19 INT or even simpler - remove limit of memoized spells for 15+ INT. I'm like potions, because it is may be anyway simplifies gameplay, but this part at least remains. Again, is a way for temporary score criticals when you will be ready!
Well, looks like i'm already wrote some things about SR/IR. I'm think that IR should not be used blindly. It is has good / strongly designed items and clearly overpowered items from my feelings (for example like Sword of Flames or similar (in EE - descriptions corrupted) which now is Scimitar, deals 1d4 fire damage (good), and 10-20% probability of 20 fire damage. And this can be acquired very early without any investments (from simple quest). And... 20 probability-based fire damage - is actually huge for low-level content.
Some time gone, new playthrough started. And again dismissed. But have new thoughts and questions.
I'm now tried another setup (i'm do it in other install order, listed in importance order for discussion):
1. Scales of Balance 5.2.3a
// IWO - Functional Weapon Tweaks: v5.2
// IWO - Light/Heavy Weapon Distinctions: v5.2
// WPO - Weapon Category Collapse: v5.2
// WPO - Systemic Proficiency Changes: v5.2
// WPO - Fighting Style Changes: v5.2
// WPO - APR on Spec: v5.2
// Revised XP Tables: v5.2
2. Item Revisions v4 beta 9 (almost everything included, except that covered by SoB's installed components). Most important here:
// Allow Spellcasting in Armor -> With Casting Speed Penalties for Arcane Casters
// Revised Shield Bonuses: V4 Beta 9
// Enchantment Doesn't Affect Speed Factor of Weapons: V4 Beta 9
// Revised Critical Hit Aversion: V4 Beta 9
3. Spell Revisions v4 beta 12
4. SCS (wizards/clerics never pre-cast short-duration spells, but next time will re-enable - archers easily interrupt mages,
but some of them badasses all time like Silke)
5. Some well-known quest mods (BGQE, BG1UB, The Lure of the Sirine's Call, The Stone of Askavar, Ascalon's Questpack).
6. Some limited number of tweaks from Tweaks Anthology, atweaks, klatu and eet_tweaks, but no one of them has rule changes.
And after some googling, i'm remove lot of things from them, because many things should be covered by SR, some by IR but actually not sure that IR really do it. Anyway it is not so important.
Well, i'm only finished Nashkel Mines and one location just after it. So i'm beat revenant in tomb (it is badass of course, my unprepared party died quickly - i'm forget that it can paralyze me easily, while lot of counterblasts has been available, and i'm beat it may be 6 times with different tactics with and without full SoB install - no dramatic changes here - it is understandable of course - it is paralyzes me or no). At this last location i'm reach level 5/5 for all of my 3-person multiclass mage party. Oh, and i'm even don't still complete seawatch (for good gear, - wand of paralyzation is must have thing to beat Albert and Ruffie). I'm beat Albert - but i'm not actually like how i'm do it in this playthrough: it is has been lot of reloads of course - problem was that IR replaces Evermemory ring with bonus to 1-4 level spells, instead of doubling,
so i'm can't cast enough magic missilies. Without SoB - i'm have one slot less for each char - so it is becomes also harder. Yep, i'm of course have two wand of missiles, and some other wands, so it is can be done easily actually. But i'm like use only things what are natural. I.e. own spells for mages, swords and shields. Potions are consumables - so not in here. I'm strongly believe that this low-level part of game should be doable without too much troubles without using of any potion - and this is always has been true before. Proper wands probably trick here, but even without them i'm never stuck here before. This time found that two webs and cleric's spiritual hammer (as ranged weapon, because no one have ranged magical weapon / arrows which can hit daemon), and finishing with lot of kiting around cleric, while cleric just stay and tries to hit. And hit it only on 20 rolls. Heh. Meoow, but it is really ugly.
Because it is about 4 or 5-th playthrough for same piece of game (two times up to BG, other - after nashkel mines), i'm have new thoughts about balance including your mod.
Oh, short words about mods: now i'm install BGQE, BG1UB - and when i'm start play with it i'm found that i'm actually already know some quests. I'm really doesn't know from where...
1. Scales of Balance // Yet Another Revisited Armor
There is most important thing, and i'm think that you do it about right (or may be absolutely right).
1.1. Dexterity
Basically i'm like idea that only portion of DEX bonus can be applied for some type of armor. I.e. NWN-like.
But, i'm actually doesn't know if it is doable in BG with mods (probably it is doable, i'm seen mod who react on stat change and apply saves (ah, it is from tb#tweaks, but it is do it incorrectly at least for multiclasses (they applied twice)). Also it flood char effect table with same (or bit changed) rows... So it should be nightmare table for full playthrough. Additional rows appears when DEX-changing items wears. So, if it is no exists reliable mechanism - it is better to stay away from it.
At same time, DEX penalty limit ranged thac0 bonus, that... also not a bad. I'm strongly believe, that heavy armored fighter should rely on stregth and melee weapon, and situationally fallback to ranged. So... to have "truly neutral" 10 in DEX we should have at least 14 DEX (if not rely on enchanted armor). Actual values different, i'm not sure what file is correct / purposes: dexmod.2da or dexmo2.2da? (I mean revisited stats). Looks like dexmo2.2da is used by my game. It is allow use Full Plate Armor without penalties even with 10 DEX. So 18 DEX char still recieve -1 AC bonus. Have sense with enchanted armors - less penalties for DEX - twice AC output from enchantment. So, this work for high-DEX and low-DEX characters. But what i'm like: 19-DEX based char is not recieve full DEX bonus with full plate. So... if you want build low-AC character it is still have sense invest in full DEX. But this is will not be a dramatic change. On other side -6 AC at 19 DEX vs -4 AC for classic stats? Looks like you are boost high dex by two points at 19, then it raised slower up to -9 at 25. It is correct that this bonuses also applied to creatures too? dexmod.2da lists other bonuses
(bit lower bonuses). Basically i'm okay with this boost, if it is used for enemies too - this makes them more powerful, but it is should be okay (balanced, and from previous trips it has been fine).
Anyway be fighter in heavy armor - DEX requirements is not so high, according dexmod.2da - 10 DEX enough to do not hit in penalties. It is really not a requirement.
On other side - i'm probably already say this: natural (DEX-based) AC bonus should be mostly available for light armors (and/or magically enchanted), i mean most efficient use of natural bonus - should be available only for magic armor (and/or that greatly covered with any studded leather +2 armor). So i'm see good synergy here: DEX penalty, natural AC bonus, armor and magic armor. Any class who need heavy armor - doesn't need high DEX (and rarely have), but will use it too.
On other side let's speak a bit about fighter/mage-like characters: Spell Revisions introduces few changes here:
1. Magic Armor - starts with 6AC like in vanilla, and then progress up to 3AC at 12th level (what is actually is long path for multiclass).
I like it, it is definitely makes this spell useful everytime with IR-like Robes, which doesn't provide AC (and only Robe of Battlemage provide 2AC bonus), so: yep, i like it - not bad basic AC's with lot of things what can raise it.
2. Shield - now it gives 2AC *bonus* and 4AC bonus vs missiles (and protection from magic missiles). There is also looks good.
Other better spells exists of course, Ghost Armor gives base 2AC, but only 2 hours, that shift it to more combat-oriented spell (and additionally gives +20% hide in shadow bonus, so mage/thief can like it). Other standard buffs not an armor, or not very practical at least for me (Spirit Armor).
So, for 19 DEX character... Fighter/Mage can achieve:
- At level 1: 6 from Magic Armor, -6 DEX bonus: 0 AC for 8 hours! This is great.
- And up to -3 at level 12.
- Shield is combat-time buff, but this gives even at level 1: -2AC and -4AC vs missiles. Great for level 1. On other side this occupy two slots, - so it is really way for f/m, because no more slots for cast early.
On other side - in BG1 under XP cap - it doesn't be better than -3/-5. Blur and other can low it even more of course, but i'm doesn't count them, because any F/M want them in heavy fights, and because 20 roll is always hit - we never will have "enough" AC or HP.
- Full Plate Armor: gives 0AC (2-2, 4 dex penaltized).
- Ankheg Plate Mail: -2AC. No spells needed (and F/M of course use Shield anyway for protect from magic missiles). But it is still can lower to -4AC also very early (or using other armor). It is winner here. Enchanted...
- Shadow armor gives same results, because it is uses full DEX bonus. So Mage/Thief, for example gives same AC, which actually want high DEX much more than others (for raising skills).
- Mastercraft Chain Mail gives 0AC.
- Telbar's Studded Leather: -1AC. So we see that light +2 armor works greater, than full plate for example. Thanks for high DEX bonus.
So... Investment in DEX is still very good for AC for any char with armor or without. It is doesn't give very big difference between armor types, but they are begins be distinctive. High dex chars gives more bonuses than i'm feel adequate, but they missile thac0 reduced, so no more too efficient heavy armored archers.
I'm understand that this is from min-max point.
1.2. Damage Resistance
Another thing: i'm think that damage resistance is also absolutely right thing. As i'm mention before - it is work on us, and against us. Kicking armored enemies begins much more harder / longer (what changes battles), especially with dagger or short bow, when it is already doesn't have big damage output. So, may be it is not a greatly balanced, but it is feel very good for me.
Yep, i'm not tried SoB (YARAS i mean) with SR, - SR's shield is can be "cheesy" at lower levels: SR shield give 2AC bonus, SoB's gives 2AC difference at 19DEX. But it is greatly compenstated by absense ultimate low-level disablers. I mean sleep. Sleep effect much shorter, enemies wake up if they hit. It is still useful for temporary disabling, but it is not ultimate, and bears for example don't fall in sleep. And even if fall - it is not allow to kick it from range with bows until death - it is awake and instakill level 1-2 chars easily. For kobolds - sleep is good if it is fall them all, but if not? In battle with Mulahey i'm previously used only cleric/mage to sleep kobolds, and don't allow going skeletons (via turn undead) to run into room.
At last time, i'm used webs - longer duration / better effect. So, even in comparison to vanilla, we achieve
(i mean buffed with shield char and 19 dex) total of 4 AC boost - it is huge, but doesn't change fact that 5-6-10 kobolts can hit you with arrows easily, or 3-5 xvarts can still hit you before they will be kill. At least because of 20 rolls always hit (actually they crit you relatively fastly (i mean kobolts) even if i'm in ankheg plate, shield + blur, so it is not a way to stupidly "tank" their damage, even with low AC). With poison and/or fire arrows it is will be painfully for PC (or even death very quickly). So, i'm bit confused, but think that this should be okay. Previous runs without SR and IR (so i'm have Elven Bane (+3 vs missiles, and something other what protect from missiles, so they almost never hit me)) - basically i'm just going with sword to break their formations, and other backsiders kills them with bows fastly. Has been much easier. May be it is because of DR and critical hit protection from helmets. About criticals bit later.
Generally just need try again with SR+SoB and may be parts of IR.
1.3. Spell Casting Penalties
For multiclassed mages it works well. One thing what i'm doesn't like in Item Revisions - is that penalties is too low. I'm played with F/M in Ankheg Plate Mail and doesn't feel big disadvantages. In IR's it is +2 penalty. In SoB it is +4. From previous trips over Sword Coast, i'm found that +2 penalty is near comfortable boundary. I.e. it is fast enough to cast fast spells (casting time 1), it is still near comfortable to cast something with casting time 3 (but you actually can be interrupted). +4 makes that you probably don't want to cast long duration spells when you surrounded / under fire, but going into battle with heavy armor even if you are F/M it is completely not a bad idea. But in SoB i'm do it in leather, not in Ankheg. So, as for me - Item Revisions do it wrong / this part ruined, because anyone can go with heavy armor with acceptable penalties. So, looks like SoB's casting time penalties is right or close to them. May be penalties even can be increased, but i'm don't will be this say, because i'm still not tried how it work in high-level content.
1.4. Movement Speed Penalties
It is not a big game change, but i'm liked how it is work in Item Revisions. But again, i'm think that leather/studded should not have penalties, or at least at enchanted or unique items (i.e. like Shadow Armor), and more heavier armors - should. But i'm also found that there is no bit changes in game. On other hand IR has revisited movement rates (for items - boots of speed should be only +5 bonus, not doubling, if i'm not mistaken). Basically I'm like this part.
1.5. Itelligence, Critical Hits, Critical Hits Aversion
Now few words about IR's Armor System, and why i'm interrupt playthrough: it is looks good, but act as overpowered, and probability-based again. I'm found that i'm dislike it. As i'm say above - casting speed penalties - too low. Critical hits aversion - idea is good, but in practice - it is limits you to few armors which protect from criticals hits, because this effect extremely rare, but if game play fair - this makes any creatures with helmets also not protected from criticals. From my feelings it is wrong. At same time lot of content you never be protected. And after - fighter will stick to probably not very suitable armor. And PC at same time (let's assume we buffed F/M) - when recieve hit, it is eventually will be near or almost critical (proper equipment + buffs - we can be invincible for arrows, except criticals).
And then 2, may be 3 critical hits and you are dead. It is still playable, but (IMHO) they do it again wrong (putting protection to some unique armor). Even if someone want remove this protection from all helmets, - creatures should be protected as they should, and it is more better put this properties at least for unique helmets. It is just my feelings. May be creatures remains protected? Hm, doesn't remember log entries that critical hit averted. With normal helmets it is happens.
Technically i'm not found that this is really better: we just die often for example from 10 kobold which shoot arrows into you, but at same time - i'm found that lot of fights with named good equiped enemies is much easier (i mean Vax-like and others)... from many factors. Previously it is has been challenge for me. I'm not apply new strategies. No. With SR+IR and even their critical hits aversion - is just easier. But only if you lucky and don't recieve hit. If you unlucky - it is direct way to reload.
I'm had to say something about too many criticals, but actually problem is in bug. We already discuss it above.
One interesting thing from scored criticals from INT is that this allow crit more often... with bows!
So, basically after recheck, i'm think that your's critical bonuses is good. Anyway - it is needed to be hit enemy first. For my multiclass characters thac0 is not so great, except F/M, i'm don't think that additional +10% to crit can ruin a balance. On other hand - my characters are high-DEX - so they are perfect archers. And there is again weak part of IR - with SoB i'm scratching until death any heavy armored enemy with shortbow (actually i'm use different: shortbow, longbow and crossbow). Without DR - it is trivialized. Baby wyvern also trivialized for somehow. So, with SoB my main damage comes from F/M in melee attack (even without STR bonus - F/M with longsword has bigger damage rolls). And after some point - all damage output from my chars has been about equal - this is because better equipment for C/M (Army Scythe with 2APR and 2d4 is actually very good).
As for bonus mage spells - i'm think it is also good thing. This is makes game more easy as playing mage... by easy i mean more funny, because mage never have enough memoized spells.
(i'm already say?) Evermemory to bonus 1-4 level spells instead of double level 1 spells - this is also more useful, but prevent you from having 10 level 1 spell slots (so no have MM battery). Btw, ring doubles natural number of spells, and not a bonus spells. I.e. when you have 3 slots - with Evermemory - you will have 2*2+1=5 slots, but not 6. So finally - 9 slots, not 10. Anyway, i'm doesn't feel that bonus spells is wrong thing. It is small addition makes mages bit stronger earlier. And i'm never liked huge difference
in spell count for clerics for example. So, like it. Addictive.
1.6. Weapon Styles
I'm generally like whole weapon proficiency overhaul and steeped progression...
But there is has some comments.
Let's talk about each:
1.6.1. Finesse
- (+) = +1 thac0, -1 AC, +5% crit chance
- (++) = +2 thac0, -2 AC, +10% crit chance
Excellent style: improves AC, improves THAC0, improves critical chance.
Actually excellent choice for eveyone who can get it. Only 2 pips and so great improvements at early stages of game, especially when we doesn't have enough THAC0. One of my favourite styles.
And let's again return to F/M with 19 INT - it will have 20% "natural" critical chance (rolls 16+).
I'm not sure how this important/cheesy. I mean, i'm previously did not feel that my F/M too powerful, it long time stick with 1 APR, so damage output is bigger for creatures who not immune to criticals... but rare hits at begin doesn't make from they killing machine even with 25% crits which has been used in my previous game.
1.6.2. Shield-Fighting
- (+) = +1 thac0, -1 AC
- (++) = +2 thac0, -2 AC (and critical hits occurs on 19 or 20, instead of just 20)
About critical hits it is from in-game description. It is missed in readme. I'm personally doesn't use it, because no have characters who use shields. But again - it is only 2 pips, reachable early and improvements as with Finesse. I.e. with or without criticals - it is still strong choice. stylbonu.2da contains criticals only for finesse, btw.
1.6.3. Two-Hand Style
- (+) = +1 thac0, +2 damage
- (++) = +2 thac0, +4 damage
Not so strong as, Finesse, because doesn't scores AC and criticals (at least in description),
but for Cleric/Mage with Quaterstaffs (AC -1) - must-have/good combo.
Actually for Cleric/Mage i'm invest in Finesse and Two-Hand Style.
1.6.4. Dual-Wielding
- ( ) = -5 main-hand thac0, and -3 off-hand thac0
- (+) = -4 main-hand thac0, and -2 off-hand thac0
- (++) = -3 main-hand thac0, and -1 off-hand thac0
- (+++) = -2 main-hand thac0, and no penalty to off-hand thac0
And... there is most hard fighting style. At least for Mage/Thief: 3 pips it can achieve not so fast (without having 3pips in style it is no have sense use it at all - thac0 is much more important, than APR at this stage of game - who need APR when only 5% of hits?). Also i'm have installed distinctions between light/heavy weapons, so actual -3 penalty - stick with light weapons for better thac0.
Hey! With 3 pips we still have huge penalty in main hand. And not so many ways to improve THAC0. I mean, that other styles gives thac0 bonuses - this weapon style - reduce thac0. When M/T can get full DW - it is no more get any pips in BG1 (under XP cap). So... M/T at level 6/6 have 3 pips, and 17/15 thac0 with +2 daggers (and can't actually use DW until get 3 pips). Yep, two daggers is great from APR side (1.5 + 1.5 actually gives 3, at level 7 with APR on Spec it will be 7/2, and eventually at 13 level - 4 APR only with daggers, and it is without any special +APR weapon). So... M/T probably shines, but much-much later when thac0 becomes lower, we gain additional attacks, and invest proficiency points into daggers (13/13 level it is probably somewhere more close to end of SoA?). It is without strength bonuses, which my mages doesn't have - i'm already max at least two stats (DEX+INT), and M/T is excellent bowman, except that have only 1 pip in bows at this stage. May be it is something interesting, but... whole BG1 it can't melee, still have 1pip in bows, big part of SoA it is probably still can't melee in DW. And after what i'm not sure that it is can melee.
15 THAC0 with single dagger (+2) without finesse. But finesse can provide 13 THAC0 with same weapon. With finesse it is able to go in melee from start. For level 6 i'm think it is valuable. Of course hits always are bit random, but... Well, if we Elf, we can use elven weapons for better thac0, but it is still be low, and loosing in APR. Yep, it is get great ability: backstabbing, and hitting from shadow grants +4 bonus to
attack roll, but there is still not huge / anyway not always possible. And this is only for first attack, as i'm see, so it is have sense to improve chances to hit in any ways for attack, and not flood by attacks until attack roll is becomes 20 (because flood is possible only after 13 lvl). And there is not many ways to improve thac0. Magic of course helps here, but enemies scaled too.
SR also gives for us "True Strike" - +10 bonus to thac0 for next round. Sounds great, but it is doesn't looks as very useful at beginning - i'm can't hit tight enemy anyway, and 1-2 rounds is enough to get be killed in open fight from one hit (mercenary in Red Sheaf Inn, it is really hard low-level fight, because it is usually gulp potion of strenght, cleric sometimes can debuff it with Doom, but it is still not enough, and again Command is absolutely useless with SR: because command is only for round, is too short, and immediately awaiking from hit - even if it fall to sleep, - cause that it is awake and in same round with big chances
instakill attacker). So it is better to put just missile to take at least of any guaranteed damage or colorspray or everything what work nearly stable, or shocking grasp for example, or just take shield (choices actually is not so many for this level). But anyway lot of varieties are possible. Well, even if leave that DW is does not reach zero penalties with light weapons (or even bonuses) - this style also doesn't grant any critical chance modifiers (or it is just missed from description?), and also doesn't grant AC bonuses as all others styles do.
I'm tried M/T with both fighting styles, and Finesse looks much stronger - able to use heavier weapons for backstab, daggers still good because higher APR. AC bonus helps in open fights. Even with mods (IR) who grants backstab penalties for normal/large weapons - it is still better to hit with weapon which do more damage, it is multiplied, and it is more than dagger + bigger multiplier (i.e. something like 10x3=30 with
scimitar vs 4x4=16).
My main point, that this weapon style in comparison to others weapon styles has more cons than pros:
- (-) requires 1 more pip (and they are rare...)
- (-) no 2 AC bonus
- (-) no 2 thac0 bonus
- (+) gives +1 or +1.5 APR from off-hand weapon, and/or off-hand weapon effects
What gives hard to develop progression: finesse works with all weapons, DW mainly works with light weapons. We, as M/T can put 3 pips in a specific weapon proficiency. With DW - any proficiencies delayed (which also helps with thac0 and APR). So... may be have sense to get 3 pips in daggers proficiency first instead of DW, and then DW. But anyway it is still delayed. May be for F/T this works really greater, or in BG2 DW shines. I'm will focus on Finesse instead. It is solid. And, basically i'm like normal-sized weapons bit more than daggers, but daggers with 1.5 APR is also cool. Especially dagger of venom (both EE and IR versions is strong, IR looks bit better (not so powerful, allow saves, but still good)).
// Personally i'm dislike dual-wielding style. I'm personally take few short lessons for sword fighting, and like it is impossible to shooting from dual pistols (technically of course it is possible, like and wielding two swords) - i'm think that it is actually impossible to fight with two swords (even short), may be daggers... but not short swords. It is already requires lot of strength, and maneuvers. I'm can't imagine how DW people can parry "power attack" from long sword with one hand. But may be some one can do it. Don't know.
swords - both of them normally wielded with two hands. Of course, we are in game. I'm just tried DW in BG to make chars more distinctive.
Also annoying thing, that in SCS Easy-of-Use script doesn't switch to melee/ranged weapon from hot keys if char is DW. Bug.
BTW: In NWN if you wield single-handed weapon, like long sword, and second hand is free, it is uses it as two-handed automatically, and apply 1.5x STR bonus.
I'm tried to offer change this style somehow, but now while i'm wrote lot of text - i'm found that i'm doesn't know how. Have sense to try this style at BG2... Most important note, that this is not usable in BG1 part by M/T - penalties too high. Fighters and F/T should feel better, but in BG1 it is should not be a great difference, because of low base thac0. So, main thing that may be it can be buffed: reach maximum at second pip, and/or limit only to light weapons, and/or finish without any penalties. No have idea. I'm doesn't try it with pure fighters, so may be they work better here. But i'm doesn't believe in that. Sorry for many chars for nothing.
1.6.5. Cleric/Mage
Gaining pip each 5 levels... is really slow. From my feelings - it is can be speeded up a bit. Or provide 1-2 more pips at start. I want to cover some cleric-specific weapons like war hammer, weapon styles,
and other weapons which it may be want to use.
For example, from start now i'm take: Finesse, Two-Hand Fighting, Crossbow, Quaterstaff, Mace/Club.
But i'm also want to have war hammer. It is actually affects on thac0 of spiritual hammer (don't know bug it is or no). Spiritual hammer has strange THAC0 bonus, which sometimes appears differently. So basically there i'm still use classic cleric weapons except crossbow. On other side - i'm absolutely loose crushing ranged damage in my party. I.e. crossbow vs sling. If it will have bit more pips at start - it should not ruin gameplay, just pick additionally war hammer, and for example sling. Just really for more better weapon choices. It is just my personal side - it is okay to pick war hammer instead of mace/club. Anyway - i feel that it can't cover everything what i want easily, while other classes do it, and i'm have some points which
actually not use (and pick in some weapons, which i'm will not use anyway). It is just thoughts.
Well, it is enough for today. It is not clearly completed, to be continued... Sorry, English is not my native, so it is hard to write and badly written, and i'm wast lot of time for this.
Anyway Scales of Balance (with all components) feels very strong and good for me. Thanks!