@subtledoctor APR on Spec component grants bonus attacs for non-warriors. So... it is stacks, and eventually even DW m/t will have high 4 APR. I'm know that thac0 for thiefs buffed, but i'm don't tried bg2 content: but m/t at 13/13 with +2 daggers can miss often to good armored creatures. Especially in case of backstab - it penaltize +4 backstab bonus (because penalty for main hand). Question only is: it is enough base thac0 for mid level content (i mean SoA and higher) or any bonus valuable. Multiclass character progress fastly only at lower level - and in SoA is linear progression. And during SoA it only will gain weapon proficiency... (or style). So it is just balance question mainly for mage/thief. Well, anyway it is better to try itself to see how it is good. Anyway good proficient mage/thief in katanas+finesse can't be bad. Or have sense to try.
As for OP Mage Armor - no it is not. AC3 on 12th level. It is should be after moment when you obtain Robe of Apperti which is AC3 or good bracers (AC4-AC3), at least for multiclass. But this is still spell, it is dispellable and any BG2 excellent enchanted armor will have lower AC. Shield on other side - more powerful, but it is now really shield, not an armor, so you need precasted armor and in fight can shield if need. Also we should be close to moment when regardless to AC opponents hit you. SCS also gives another layer. IR's mage robes doesn't provide any base AC. Only robe of battlemage gives 2 bonus, +10hp (previously named neutral archmage). Vecna nerfed to 1AC bonus and -2 casting speed. Robe of arcabe might (evil archmage) - gives +2 arcane casting level. Everything else - rubbish. Like immunity for backstab in knaves robe. There is all more powerfull items, but they no more armor with flat AC bonus. But there is exist not only AC3 useful bracers, so probably mage can hardly rely on magic for armor and use other gloves. I like this idea. May other bonus numbers is better suit, but generally i like idea.
Also one of valuable contribution for AC is 19 DEX. But if enemies gives same bonuses - thus makes us semi-automatically balanced. Another thing is STR to hit rolls. Because you nerf 19 STR (yes? i'm may be forget) then enemies or summons becomes weaker, because they doesn't hit in us as expected (and this can be cumulative with buffed AC). Skeleton Warriors (greater?) should have 19STR and matched bonuses. But because we touch bonuses - for true balancing we need revise creature stats, in terms of to-hit, AC. Or remain original keypoints (for strength is clearly 15, 18, 19 i think). There is also important thst debuffs based on stats should work - loosing 1STR in 3E is not huge. Loosing 1STR from 19 to 18 - is good. At same time 3E like bonuses will not work or work against player - too many bonuses for weak creatures and even more bonuses for strong, no jump at 19. At same time 90pt all average build will perform much better. Ankhegs which is 9/9/9/9/9 will performs with penalties, and while it is already not very strong - just need good protection and/or AC - they become even easier. May be creature stats should be remapped to have some correct bonuses. Weaker/neutral can keep become bit more stronger, but strong 19+ STR enemies should not be nerfed by our nerfed tables. Especially while we already boost AC at 1-2 points only via DEX. If remap all creature stats/bonuses... well, it can help. But because many creatures originally already weak even on insane (in terms of creature types, i.e. kobolt is still kobolt, which good archer kills in 1-2 shots regardless of game mode (i mean core/hard/insane))... then it is becomes more than balancing stat modifiers equation. So just need try. From my previous feelings - balance has been good. But i'm put into sleep everyone who can. SR as i'm already say works differ. On other hand - SR's Web can additionally slow victim if it is fail saving throws.
About criticals - as i'm say, i'm don't like IR's way. Any hobgoblin should be have protected by helmet. If helmet like in IR provides additional 1AC bonus - then... oh, btw, IR have component which allow wear magical protection item with magical armor. So they potentially lower AC. About crit effect - like knockdown - if it is leads to receive guaranteed hit - then it is even worse than just critical hit - you can be killed again very fastly without chance to save. But idea about crit effects not bad. But i'm doesn't know which. Also there is exist natural classes who can't be protected with helmets. mage/thief until UAI for example. Effects should play fair in both directions... in that sense may be minor debuff for 1-2 rounds with penalties to hit / AC / damage rolls, i.e. some kind of bad luck. But! It is probably can happens even if critical hit averted by item protection. I.e. difference only in damage, but always effect. May be effects what you describe also good.
IR adds lot if probability-based weapons - bow with chance to entangle target... In what sense crit effects should not be too strong. Slow effect is about too strong. But may be duration in one round is okay. Who knows. I'm just worry about unique weapons with similar effects.
Basically i'm feel that IR should be adopted to SoB or... may be start some new items mod.
Also for test balance it is may be not bad idea to recommend some mods which can work with SoB. I mean some non-tactics mods do creature standartization, but i'm never checked what they really do and how it is correct. Especially in terms of MRO & STO components. Btw, this components should be installed after SCS? SCS did not deduce nothing?
@subtledoctor, what's difference between dexmod.2da and dexmo2.2da ? dexmod.2da is in stats folder. But YARAS copy misc/dexmo2.2da file, and this file is used by game, and this file gives at 19DEX -6 AC instead of -4 AC. There is one of primary source of too low AC's at start of game. As for me, stats in dexmod.2da is better.
@subtledoctor I'm okay with giving more AC for heavier armor if users lost DEX bonuses. But also needs to count that +2 enchantments returns +2 DEX together with bonus AC, so, any character with +2 AC bonus from DEX will use it at maximum efficiency (i mean armor which penaltize dex by 2). Any char with +4 AC bonus will still recieve +2 AC bonus from DEX, if armor penaltize DEX by 4 (and return 2 from enchantment). Need to thing about... may be need to draw some tables.
I'm just found (never known this before) that scored critical hits turns lower rolls (critical) into always-hits. I.e. we can hit enemy with very low AC not only on 20, but also on 19, 18... and with finesse - at 16+. Wow!
@subtledoctor and yes, i'm see similar / same messages as @kelthalas in BG2EE only. Imoen say it just from start. But nothing similar in BG1EE. (And there is doesn't related to latest changes, i'm seen this and before, but not report for unknown reason.)
@subtledoctor, oh... looks like it need to try in game.
In previous post i'm say that it is probably okay as-is (with -5 at 18, -6 at 19). Just now any armor looks like nerfed in AC in comparison to unchanged game. Full Plate +2 which previously has -1 AC and AC bonuses vs specific damages - now has 1AC (2 worse, DR and no bonuses vs specific damages). I'm don't know how really it is affects game.
I must be blind but I can't find any info about saving throw overhaul and magic resist overhaul components in the readme. Can you give me some insight about them?
Ah yes now I can clearly see MRO section in the readme. Where did it go earlier...? As for STO that's interesting. I think Im gonna try it on the next run as I just got my hands on Siege of Dragonspear.
Also does main component of item revision (item revision by Demivrgvs) is compatible with SoB?
ok , sorry my mistake , last year it seem an earlier version of sob do that , but it was probably another mod.
for the new YARAS component , it's well balanced for high level, like in throne of baal , but i think for low level party the ac penalty on heavy armor is a bit too much , especially against numerous weak ennemy like kobold archer .
character with 17 constitution doesn't regenerate (description show 2hp/hour)
@orvarth with YARAS now we have a bit worse AC in comparison to original (and i'm think that we should fix this, but this is unrelated to DEX bonuses): but on other side - we have damage reduction. In my tests in BG1 DR works very fine: character can stay alive much longer, in comparison to standard armor system. What i'm actually like, is that armored enemies now more stronger (because DR). On other side, because YARAS removes any specific AC bonuses vs damage type - any armor can act differently - stronger or weaker in terms of chances to hit.
But on low levels - i'm not sure that this is has really any difference. On low level - i'm can't face-to-face with many enemies, because they instakill me.
Usual Kobolds sucks anyway - they have so worse stats (9/9/9/9/9/9), no have proficiencies... they will almost constantly miss if they concentrate fire on properly equipped char (because you can get about -5..-9 AC vs missiles in game with proper gear). Some one can use Elven's Bane. Someone can use shields... Or F/M can use buffs.
In sense of critical damage rolls - there is no any difference between YARAS and vanilla - 10 kobolds with 2 APR with shortbow (so 20 attacks per round) - they will hit you on critical rolls, and this from my feelings will happens some times in 2-3 rounds. So break their formation, and they almost never hit in you.
PS: I'm thinking about new run, again, with IR+SR+SCS+SoB. Get new feelings and think about...
Actually i'm more worried about revisited stats... and creature stats: I'm like this idea, but there is exists some weak points: STR bonuses are nerfed, and creatures with 18/19 STR becomes bit weaker (in terms of to-hit bonus). And 18/xx magic bonuses also actually nerfed. DEX is self-balanced, but player almost always have better stats or equipment.
No, when i'm assault bandit camp with SCS and better calls to help - stats actually no have difference: only DPS and how many spells you can cast to take all them down have difference, and for my 3 multimages it was a big challenge anyway. How to beat it with non-casters i'm doesn't know.
Also i'm worry, that INT now is very great stat, but IR removes INT boosting potions, that just limit character builds.
So, what's is true way as i'm see is assign any stat-bonuses / armor bonuses / penalties as "we think", and then reassign creature stats to fit in new system. May be even boost some creatures to have better stats than 9/9/9/9/9/9.
Also, as i'm mention before - i'm like IR-like items, i.e. +2 boosting items, not setting STR/DEX to 18. This makes character more powerful, but on other side - char with dumped stat can't be good just by using this items.
Also for any stat system it is important to know how many buy points is allowed / designed. Sometimes i'm think that everyone play with 92pt builds, or near to them (18/18/18/11/18/3 it is very close to 92, even if technically it is only 86pt build).
So... looks that nothing ideal exists. To create total conversion / total rebalance - lot of work needed.
Problem kinda here What happened? Why those items got wrong strref? I believe they are items from 5lvl wizard spell Enchant Weapon. I thought my installation got fucked somehow earlier so I did reinstall but again same thing. Halp!
Of course, Im using BWS and it won't let me install anything if it detects SoD is not unpacked. I guess Im gonna do another reinstall (it will be 12th since yday...) tomorrow with differrent settings.
Comments
As for OP Mage Armor - no it is not. AC3 on 12th level. It is should be after moment when you obtain Robe of Apperti which is AC3 or good bracers (AC4-AC3), at least for multiclass. But this is still spell, it is dispellable and any BG2 excellent enchanted armor will have lower AC. Shield on other side - more powerful, but it is now really shield, not an armor, so you need precasted armor and in fight can shield if need. Also we should be close to moment when regardless to AC opponents hit you. SCS also gives another layer. IR's mage robes doesn't provide any base AC. Only robe of battlemage gives 2 bonus, +10hp (previously named neutral archmage). Vecna nerfed to 1AC bonus and -2 casting speed. Robe of arcabe might (evil archmage) - gives +2 arcane casting level. Everything else - rubbish. Like immunity for backstab in knaves robe. There is all more powerfull items, but they no more armor with flat AC bonus. But there is exist not only AC3 useful bracers, so probably mage can hardly rely on magic for armor and use other gloves. I like this idea. May other bonus numbers is better suit, but generally i like idea.
Also one of valuable contribution for AC is 19 DEX. But if enemies gives same bonuses - thus makes us semi-automatically balanced. Another thing is STR to hit rolls. Because you nerf 19 STR (yes? i'm may be forget) then enemies or summons becomes weaker, because they doesn't hit in us as expected (and this can be cumulative with buffed AC). Skeleton Warriors (greater?) should have 19STR and matched bonuses. But because we touch bonuses - for true balancing we need revise creature stats, in terms of to-hit, AC. Or remain original keypoints (for strength is clearly 15, 18, 19 i think). There is also important thst debuffs based on stats should work - loosing 1STR in 3E is not huge. Loosing 1STR from 19 to 18 - is good. At same time 3E like bonuses will not work or work against player - too many bonuses for weak creatures and even more bonuses for strong, no jump at 19. At same time 90pt all average build will perform much better. Ankhegs which is 9/9/9/9/9 will performs with penalties, and while it is already not very strong - just need good protection and/or AC - they become even easier. May be creature stats should be remapped to have some correct bonuses. Weaker/neutral can keep become bit more stronger, but strong 19+ STR enemies should not be nerfed by our nerfed tables. Especially while we already boost AC at 1-2 points only via DEX. If remap all creature stats/bonuses... well, it can help. But because many creatures originally already weak even on insane (in terms of creature types, i.e. kobolt is still kobolt, which good archer kills in 1-2 shots regardless of game mode (i mean core/hard/insane))... then it is becomes more than balancing stat modifiers equation. So just need try. From my previous feelings - balance has been good. But i'm put into sleep everyone who can. SR as i'm already say works differ. On other hand - SR's Web can additionally slow victim if it is fail saving throws.
About criticals - as i'm say, i'm don't like IR's way. Any hobgoblin should be have protected by helmet. If helmet like in IR provides additional 1AC bonus - then... oh, btw, IR have component which allow wear magical protection item with magical armor. So they potentially lower AC.
IR adds lot if probability-based weapons - bow with chance to entangle target... In what sense crit effects should not be too strong. Slow effect is about too strong. But may be duration in one round is okay. Who knows. I'm just worry about unique weapons with similar effects.
Basically i'm feel that IR should be adopted to SoB or... may be start some new items mod.
Also for test balance it is may be not bad idea to recommend some mods which can work with SoB. I mean some non-tactics mods do creature standartization, but i'm never checked what they really do and how it is correct. Especially in terms of MRO & STO components. Btw, this components should be installed after SCS? SCS did not deduce nothing?
dexmod.2da is in stats folder. But YARAS copy misc/dexmo2.2da file, and this file is used by game, and this file gives at 19DEX -6 AC instead of -4 AC. There is one of primary source of too low AC's at start of game. As for me, stats in dexmod.2da is better.
18 DEX, -4 natural AC mod.
Vanilla: Full Plate Armor +2 (BG2) AC -1 (AC mods -4 vs slashing, -3 vs missile and piercing)
Gives -5 base AC (4 from 18 DEX).
SoB: Full Plate Armor +2 = AC 0, DR 32%, DEX -3 penalty (and no other mods)
Gives -2 base AC (2 from 15 DEX)
19 DEX of course gains our AC, and 20 DEX reachable point which also will gain our AC.
But our base AC remains anyway lower than original (not sure how it is okay)... basically looks okay. May be need rethink it is more systematic.
http://imgur.com/xjho4Vu
thanks !
In previous post i'm say that it is probably okay as-is (with -5 at 18, -6 at 19). Just now any armor looks like nerfed in AC in comparison to unchanged game. Full Plate +2 which previously has -1 AC and AC bonuses vs specific damages - now has 1AC (2 worse, DR and no bonuses vs specific damages). I'm don't know how really it is affects game.
I must be blind but I can't find any info about saving throw overhaul and magic resist overhaul components in the readme. Can you give me some insight about them?
Ah yes now I can clearly see MRO section in the readme. Where did it go earlier...? As for STO that's interesting. I think Im gonna try it on the next run as I just got my hands on Siege of Dragonspear.
Also does main component of item revision (item revision by Demivrgvs) is compatible with SoB?
for the new YARAS component , it's well balanced for high level, like in throne of baal , but i think for low level party the ac penalty on heavy armor is a bit too much , especially against numerous weak ennemy like kobold archer .
character with 17 constitution doesn't regenerate (description show 2hp/hour)
But on low levels - i'm not sure that this is has really any difference. On low level - i'm can't face-to-face with many enemies, because they instakill me.
Usual Kobolds sucks anyway - they have so worse stats (9/9/9/9/9/9), no have proficiencies... they will almost constantly miss if they concentrate fire on properly equipped char (because you can get about -5..-9 AC vs missiles in game with proper gear). Some one can use Elven's Bane. Someone can use shields... Or F/M can use buffs.
In sense of critical damage rolls - there is no any difference between YARAS and vanilla - 10 kobolds with 2 APR with shortbow (so 20 attacks per round) - they will hit you on critical rolls, and this from my feelings will happens some times in 2-3 rounds. So break their formation, and they almost never hit in you.
PS: I'm thinking about new run, again, with IR+SR+SCS+SoB. Get new feelings and think about...
Actually i'm more worried about revisited stats... and creature stats: I'm like this idea, but there is exists some weak points: STR bonuses are nerfed, and creatures with 18/19 STR becomes bit weaker (in terms of to-hit bonus). And 18/xx magic bonuses also actually nerfed. DEX is self-balanced, but player almost always have better stats or equipment.
No, when i'm assault bandit camp with SCS and better calls to help - stats actually no have difference: only DPS and how many spells you can cast to take all them down have difference, and for my 3 multimages it was a big challenge anyway. How to beat it with non-casters i'm doesn't know.
Also i'm worry, that INT now is very great stat, but IR removes INT boosting potions, that just limit character builds.
So, what's is true way as i'm see is assign any stat-bonuses / armor bonuses / penalties as "we think", and then reassign creature stats to fit in new system. May be even boost some creatures to have better stats than 9/9/9/9/9/9.
Also, as i'm mention before - i'm like IR-like items, i.e. +2 boosting items, not setting STR/DEX to 18. This makes character more powerful, but on other side - char with dumped stat can't be good just by using this items.
Also for any stat system it is important to know how many buy points is allowed / designed. Sometimes i'm think that everyone play with 92pt builds, or near to them (18/18/18/11/18/3 it is very close to 92, even if technically it is only 86pt build).
So... looks that nothing ideal exists. To create total conversion / total rebalance - lot of work needed.
Problem kinda here
Of course, Im using BWS and it won't let me install anything if it detects SoD is not unpacked. I guess Im gonna do another reinstall (it will be 12th since yday...) tomorrow with differrent settings.