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[MOD] -Scales of Balance- a post-hac tweak mod

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  • _Luke__Luke_ Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,535
    edited February 2018


    That's down to the game engine - I wouldn't know how to begin to add such a thing. All this mod does is literally just flip a 0 to a 1 in the relevant .2da file.

    I see.
    • Are you still working on that ini setting that will allow players to choose what revised stat to install?
    • Could you separate Shield-fighting from the other revised fighting styles?
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    I think the mod install would be too bloated if everything got separated out. Just installing CDTweaks is a test of patience.
  • _Luke__Luke_ Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,535
    ThacoBell said:

    I think the mod install would be too bloated if everything got separated out. Just installing CDTweaks is a test of patience.

    I don't think so if extra options are added via ini settings....
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  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Luke93 said:

    ThacoBell said:

    I think the mod install would be too bloated if everything got separated out. Just installing CDTweaks is a test of patience.

    I don't think so if extra options are added via ini settings....
    I don't quite get what you are saying. Adding more options makes adding more options take less time?
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  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Oh okay. Please don't make me have to edit documents just to install a mod.
  • cbarchukcbarchuk Member Posts: 322
    Hey Subtledoctor, did you add an update to the dual wielding part of your mod? If so, do I need to uninstall the old one and install the new one?
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  • Pharaun159Pharaun159 Member Posts: 41
    Noticing some item disparity. Cloak of Balduran supposed to add point to strength and charisma, but its just adding to charisma, not to strength.
    Also noticed a variety of times when use any item shows that an item is able to be used, but then says it cant be equipped. If i catch it again, i give you more specifics. Just played through all three parts. Trying to go from memory.
  • _Luke__Luke_ Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,535



    I think @Luke93's point is, putting options into extra components does add annoyance and 'installation fatigue,' and has to be dealt with every time you install. Whereas, putting options into a settings document - the mod's equivalent of baldur.lua - allows you to edit that document just once, and then install the mod as much as you like with fewer, more streamlined components.

    There's pros and cons either way.

    Exactly. However, I didn't know there're pros and cons either way....
  • CryosaurCryosaur Member Posts: 15
    @subtledoctor A technical question, if I may. For the Stat Bonuses, you chose to add a large number of rows to splprot.2da with the specific stat values embedded, instead of a small number of rows with value -1 which uses the parameter1 field of the effect. Was there reason(s) to code it this way?
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  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,368
    One possible reason for having explicit entries for each value is for combination checks, necessary for something like strength and extra strength. The generic (-1) entries cannot be used with the combination checks (0x103, 0x104).
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  • Okay, waaayy to much to get my head around. I'm just a player, certainly not a modder. I see a credit for a Readme but can't seem to find it. Maybe it will help me with some of the questions, thoughts I have below.


    As an old early 80s D&D with p&p guy this seems like something I've always though would be good, i.e. tying clerics and paladins to their deity. Never makes sense to me that, e.g. as a cleric or paladin of a deity, when I walk into a temple to MY deity, I'm not recognized in any way and am treated the same as someone who comes in and uses the temple but has diametrically opposed alignment. Not sure this mod addresses that but it still gets closer than the game is now.

    I looked at the kits and spheres spreadsheet. Does it indicate that paladins can be of any race if this mod is installed? From what I could tell, only Tyr was limited to human paladins. The game I grew up playing had only human paladins. Certain exceptions for demi-human deities make sense though.

    Thanks for listening. :) CT
  • marc5477marc5477 Member Posts: 19
    edited March 2018
    Hey there. Like the idea of the mod but ran into a snag. I am not sure if this was already covered in the 74 previous pages so excuse me if it was:

    For some odd reason, when you make a FMT class, it does not have two-handed nor sword/shield styles listed in the proficiency selection. I noticed that it does work for a plain fighter, and even fighter/mage. Is this on purpose? Is FMT not supposed to get those?

    Oh as a side note, I do have some stuff from tweak anthology installed... actually now that I think about it, I probably should uninstall that to see if this is a SoB issue or not.

    I verified that it is not a anthology issue. With just SoB installed the above is true. Is this intended?

    UPDATE: Okay so I looked around at your files and discovered in your WPO_styles.tpa that you treat all multiclass thieves as limited by thief styles and thieves are limited to dual wield and single handed. Interesting limitation. I am trying to figure out how to fix this. I tried moving class 10 to the fighter array of styles but that didnt seem to fix it.

    UPDATE 2: I found a work around. Looks like your script edits a file named weapprof.2da. I just edited that and now it works how I want it to. Still think its odd that a fighter multi cant use 2 handed.

    Post edited by marc5477 on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2018
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
  • GawainBSGawainBS Member Posts: 523
    That update to dualwielding looks like the best so far: usable right away, but not so good that everyone and his/her dog wants to dualwield.
  • marc5477marc5477 Member Posts: 19
    @Subltedoctor

    Really like your mod. I originally installed to do something about the imbalance between 2 handed and single handed weapons and you mod helped a little but I have to say that even with the dual wield penalties, dual wield remains insanely better than 2 handed.

    I did a test yesterday against Kagnaxx with two warriors, one using a 2h staff and the other dual wielded a club and mace. Both had thaco of -3 in every position and 19 str starting. Even with the str penalties from your mod, the dual wielder took down Kagnaxx demi-lich in about half the time. The staff wielder absorbed about 7 or 8 imprisonments before he went down. He used a improved haste and 1 improved whirlwind. The dual wielder only used improved haste... didnt even bother with critical strike and he took him down by about the 4th imprisonment.

    On top of that, all the great bonuses you get from an extra item. Ah well, if you cant beat em, join em i guess...
  • GawainBSGawainBS Member Posts: 523
    I think that the inherent problem with Dualwielding (and Shieldfighting to a lesser degree) is that you can balance them for normal items, but once you take magic items into account, the extra weapon (or shield) quickly trumps any proficiency bonus a THF can get.
  • DjinnDjinn Member Posts: 76
    edited March 2018
    I'd suggest making two handed style and two handed weapon proficiencies give higher damage bonuses and/or crit range bonuses to make up for the other styles being that much more powerful - or introduce a separate mod component for giving two handed weapons higher base damage.

    In 3rd edition, there are different crit damage multipliers for the different weapon types, and the strength bonus modifier is also multiplied by 1.5. As far as I understand the Infinity Engine, this isn't possible to implement in the BG games or IWD. But maybe factoring in those crit multiplier differences in the base damage of the different weapons would help make wielding two handed weapons more useful compared to the other fighting styles.

    For instance, halberds do 1d10 with a x3 crit multiplier.
    I'm terrible at math, but you could increase their base damage in the mod to 1d14 to also simulate the extra damage from the strength bonus multiplier.
    Greatswords do 2d6 damage x2 crit in 3rd edition. Increasing their base damage from 1d10 to 2d6 or 3d4 in BG would go a long way to make them more useful too I think.
    Spears could go from 1d6 to 1d10.
    You could also introduce greataxes by converting some of the numerous battle-axes in the games to double-handed greataxes that do 2d8 damage (1d12x3 base damage in 3rd edition).

    Of course hit points also get to much higher numbers in 3rd edition, so this is by no means balanced for BG - it's just idea that sprung to mind. I could try balancing the numbers out in a spreadsheet if you're interested.
  • Contemplative_HamsterContemplative_Hamster Member Posts: 844
    Djinn said:


    You could also introduce greataxes by converting some of the numerous battle-axes in the games to double-handed greataxes that do 2d8 damage (1d12x3 base damage in 3rd edition).

    Tweaks Anthology already has an option to wield existing bastard swords, katanas, and axes in two hands, or in in hand, and toggle the setting at will.

    Furthermore, IWDification introduces a number of specifically two-handed axes to the game.

    I think it is better to leave it as an option, as per Tweaks, and possibly introduce some new weapons, as per IWDification, rather than forcibly convert some existing weapons to two-handed use only.
  • DjinnDjinn Member Posts: 76
    Those mods don't change the base damage of the different weapons though, do they?

    There are actually several reasons that I suggested converting already existing weapons into different/new types of weapons.
    One is that I personally feel there is enough weaponry to choose from already.
    I also imagine coming up with whole new weapons, balancing them out and adding fluff/lore to make them work with the game is a bigger task than identifying and converting already existing weapons that would fit the new category. Of course, it's not my call as it's not my mod.

    But, as I also stated, I think it ought to be a separate component (option) in the mod, and not part of the proficiency overhaul itself.
  • _Luke__Luke_ Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,535
    Djinn said:

    Those mods don't change the base damage of the different weapons though, do they?

    You may be interested in Item Revision -> http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?s=77b473f4a3dfff4cf06910d165a68665&showforum=157
  • _Luke__Luke_ Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,535
    edited March 2018
    From the ReadMe:

    NOTE: the changes for each stat can be selectively skipped by editing a variable in /Scales_of_Balance/ini/stats.ini.

    It's not *fully* working for me: for example, if I decide to skip DEX changes, the new AC table is installed instead of the vanilla one (only the melee thac0 bonuses are skipped!). Moreover, the mod should not update the description of skipped stats......
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @subtledoctor I just installed the latest version of this mod, but the weapon styles component doesn't seem to be present. Was that moved to its own mod, or is it called something different now in the installer?

    Weidu log in spoilers
    // Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
    // The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
    // ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
    ~SETUP-CRITTERPARTS_V1.1.TP2~ #0 #0 // CritterParts: v1.1
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #0 // The BG1 NPC Project: Required Modifications: v23.3
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #1 // The BG1 NPC Project: Banters, Quests, and Interjections: v23.3
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #9 // The BG1 NPC Project: Ajantis Romance Core (teen content): v23.3
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #10 // The BG1 NPC Project: Branwen's Romance Core (teen content): v23.3
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #12 // The BG1 NPC Project: Dynaheir's Romance Core (teen content): v23.3
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #14 // The BG1 NPC Project: Xan's Romance Core (teen content): v23.3
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #15 // The BG1 NPC Project: Female Romance Challenges, Ajantis vs Xan vs Coran: v23.3
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #16 // The BG1 NPC Project: NPCs can be sent to wait in an inn: v23.3
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #200 // The BG1 NPC Project: Player-Initiated Dialogues: v23.3
    ~CHATTYIMOEN/SETUP-CHATTYIMOEN.TP2~ #0 #0 // Chatty Imoen: Expanded Character Sounds: v1.3
    ~CHATTYIMOEN/SETUP-CHATTYIMOEN.TP2~ #0 #1 // Chatty Imoen: Add NPC Interactions: v1.3
    ~NEERABANTERS/NEERABANTERS.TP2~ #0 #10 // Neera Banters: Dialogue Banters and Interjections: v0.9.1
    ~NEERABANTERS/NEERABANTERS.TP2~ #0 #20 // Neera Banters: Interaction Banters: v0.9.1
    ~SIRENE/SETUP-SIRENE.TP2~ #0 #0 // Sirene NPC for Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
    ~SIRENE/SETUP-SIRENE.TP2~ #0 #1 // Sirene NPC for Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear
    ~AURA_BG1/SETUP-AURA_BG1.TP2~ #0 #1 // Aura Glimmershine NPC -> Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition + Siege of Dragonspear: 1.0
    ~SODDIALOGBANTERS/SETUP-SODDIALOGBANTERS.TP2~ #0 #0 // SoD Dialog Banters: v1.0
    ~WEASELS!/WEASELS!.TP2~ #0 #0 // Weasels! Because the IE games needed more weasels!: 2.0
    ~SPIRITWALKER/SETUP-SPIRITWALKER.TP2~ #0 #0 // Spiritwalker Shaman Kit
    ~STORMCALLER/SETUP-STORMCALLER.TP2~ #0 #0 // Storm Caller Shaman Kit
    ~WILLOWISP/WILLOWISP.TP2~ #0 #5 // Witchlight Shaman standalone kit for BG:EE: v1.2
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #0 // Revised Specialists: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #1 // Revised Dragon Disciples: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #2 // Sorcerer: Magus: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #3 // Sorcerer: Favoured Soul: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #4 // Sorcerer: Sylvan Disciple: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #5 // Sorcerer: Revenant Disciple: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #6 // Sorcerer: Amorphous Disciple: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #7 // Innate Find Familiar: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #8 // Armored Casting For Bards: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #9 // Arcane Crafting: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #10 // Spell Tweaks: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #11 // Metamagic: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #12 // Cantrips -> Innate Cantrips: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #14 // Ability Score Bonuses: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #15 // Spell Select Dialog: 0.7
    ~FAITHS_AND_POWERS/FAITHS_AND_POWERS.TP2~ #0 #102 // Select an installation method below: -> all the new kits and the sphere system: 0.74.25
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #500 // Multiclass Kits: 3.7.3
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #200 // Feat System: 3.7.3
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #205 // Psionics: 3.7.3
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #210 // Bard Class Overhaul: 3.7.3
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #220 // Revised Movement Bonuses (Quickstride): 3.7.3
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #230 // Revised Archery: 3.7.3
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #250 // Revised Berserker and Rage: 3.7.3
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #260 // Revised Kensai: 3.7.3
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #265 // Revised Monk Fists: 3.7.3
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #310 // Add the Corsair (fighter kit): 3.7.3
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #320 // Add the Marksman (fighter kit): 3.7.3
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #410 // Add the Sniper (thief kit): 3.7.3
    ~SETUP-SENTRIZEAL_AA_PACK.TP2~ #0 #0 // Sentrizeal's Wizard 4 Missing Animation Fix: v1.1
    ~SETUP-SENTRIZEAL_AA_PACK.TP2~ #0 #1 // Sentrizeal's Elven Ranger Avatar (Female): v1.1
    ~SETUP-SENTRIZEAL_AA_PACK.TP2~ #0 #2 // Sentrizeal's Elven Ranger Avatar (Male): v1.1
    ~SETUP-SENTRIZEAL_AA_PACK.TP2~ #0 #3 // Sentrizeal's Elven Ranger Weapon Fix: v1.1
    ~SETUP-SENTRIZEAL_AA_PACK.TP2~ #0 #4 // Sentrizeal's Human Gladiator Avatar (Female): v1.1
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #110 // Icon Improvements: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #130 // Force All Dialogue to Pause Game: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #160 // Make Magic Shields Glow (plainab/grogerson): v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #180 // Unique Containers -> Fixes only: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #200 // Remove Blur Effect from Items, e.g. Cloack of Displacement: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1010 // More Interjections: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1090 // Exotic Item Pack: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1100 // Reveal City Maps When Entering Area: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2150 // Wear Multiple Protection Items -> P&P Restrictions: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2220 // Change Magically Created Weapons to Zero Weight: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2339 // Remove Summoning Cap for Regular Summons: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2352 // Alter Multiclass Restrictions -> Install both of the above options: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2360 // Remove Racial Restrictions for Single Classes: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2380 // Remove Racial Restrictions for Kits: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2410 // Druids Use 3E Alignment Restrictions: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3031 // Easy Spell Learning -> 100% Learn Spells and No Maximum Cap: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3050 // Remove fatigue from restoration spells: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3121 // Happy Patch (Party NPCs do not complain about reputation) -> NPCs Can Be Angry About Reputation but Never Leave (Salk): v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3200 // Sellable Items (Icelus): v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4031 // Consistent Stats: Edwin -> Use BG2 Values: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4041 // Consistent Stats: Jaheira -> Use BG2 Values: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4050 // Change Jaheira to Neutral Good: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4061 // Consistent Stats: Minsc -> Use BG2 Values: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4071 // Consistent Stats: Viconia -> Use BG2 Values: v4
    ~SCALES_OF_BALANCE/SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #102 // IWO - Functional Weapon Tweaks: v5.9
    ~SCALES_OF_BALANCE/SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #103 // IWO - Light/Heavy Weapon Distinctions: v5.9
    ~SCALES_OF_BALANCE/SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #122 // WPO - Systemic Proficiency Changes: v5.9
    ~SCALES_OF_BALANCE/SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #125 // WPO - APR on Spec: v5.9
    ~SCALES_OF_BALANCE/SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #160 // STO - Saving Throw Overhaul: v5.9
    ~SCALES_OF_BALANCE/SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #200 // SBO - Stat Bonus Overhaul: v5.9
    ~SCALES_OF_BALANCE/SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #206 // SBO - Hit Dice Overhaul -> Generous (above-average) hit points: v5.9
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  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    I didn't realize it was a part of weapon proficiency. Thanks for the fast reply.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited April 2018
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
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