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'Story mode'?

124

Comments

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,409
    edited October 2014
    I get it, it's an option for the people that don't like a challenge and just want to breeze through it.

    But it's practically the same argument as having a +20 vorpal weapon in a barrel in Candlekeep.
    Of course it's an option not to take it and use it but if there's an option to make the game a breeze many people new to the game will take the option and then say "lol the game was easy, I just turned Story-Mode on/used the +20 Vorpal weapon".

    At least with cheat-codes you need to do some research on how to enable the console, then put in the correct input or unlock them somehow and then you breeze through the game.

    That's the point of a game. To learn how to play and overcome challenges. Even with Very Easy options, there's still a challenge if you're not careful but plain out God-Mode as a vanilla option is not a good philosophy to making games.

    If people disagree with putting +20 Vorpal weapons in plain sight in the beginning of the games, then they shouldn't agree with a much easier to find option that makes the game much much easier.

    Both are optional, both are by design, both destroy the challenge of a game to cater to new people.

    It's not mandatory but it's a bad design decision in my opinion.
    There's a reason other games don't have a "Story-Mode/God-mode" option by default.

    At least in Mass Effect 3 Story Mode (where I guess the idea came from) makes the enemies very easy, it doesn't make the player invincible.

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/115186-BioWare-Breaks-Down-Mass-Effect-3-Game-Modes

    "The story mode is actually just a difficulty setting." "It's still possible to die in story mode, it's just quicker and easier to blow through the combat"

    Even making the enemies die in one hit would be a better option than flat-out invincibility.

    jackjackErgElectricMonk
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    DreadKhan said:

    Why not whine about the cheat console being included as an option??

    The console is a debug tool for the developers, the testers and the modders. It is in invaluable tool for testing the game. It can also be used to cheat, but this is not its main purpose, more like a side effect.

    Archaos
  • kaguanakaguana Member Posts: 1,327
    bengoshi said:



    Dear Andrew Foley, all we can do is to apologise on behalf of Erg. I'm so sorry!

    @AndrewFoley‌ There Tag so you will see we are not all thinking like Erg

    kcwise
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    edited October 2014
    Heindrich said:

    It's like some of you don't want new people to experience these games in their own preferred ways.

    Actually I don't think such people really exists, and by that I mean people that don't like those games because they are too difficult, but would surely start to enjoy them if there was a "Story Mode".

    Those people IMO should only exists in the minds of evil distributors, but it looks like the idea can sneak in the minds of few developers, if they listen to the wrong feedback, and from there is an easy step to reach and convince most of the userbase, because, you know, devs can never be wrong, amirite?

    This "Story Mode" in particular can only make the game more boring for everyone, because it doesn't reduce the challenge, it eliminates it completely.

    The fact that's optional is irrelevant, it remains an awful idea that doesn't really benefit anyone.

    Archaos
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    bengoshi said:

    So, it would be positive if we all refrain from arguing that only one point of view is right.

    No one is arguing this here.

    I'm not for sure.

    I'm explaining my point of view and arguing on the topic "Story Mode", and that's all. If you want to close the discussion just because I'm speaking my mind, please go ahead :)

  • ThunderThunder Member Posts: 157
    Erg said:

    Actually I don't think such people really exists, and by that I mean people that don't like those games because they are too difficult, but would surely start to enjoy them if there was a "Story Mode".

    Those people IMO should only exists in the minds of evil distributors, but it looks like the idea can sneak in the minds of few developers, if they listen to the wrong feedback, and from there is an easy step to reach and convince most of the userbase, because, you know, devs can never be wrong, amirite?

    This "Story Mode" in particular can only make the game more boring for everyone, because it doesn't reduce the challenge, it eliminates it completely.

    The fact that's optional is irrelevant, it remains an awful idea that doesn't really benefit anyone.

    While you can't imagine anyone having a use for this game mode, that doesn't necessarily mean no one actually has a use for it. It's more likely your imagination is limited. Which is totally fine, we all have our shortcomings, but stating your opinions as facts doesn't benefit anyone (wait! that might be a limitation of my own imagination ;)).

    As a side-note, personally I don't care if this option appears in the game or not.

    HeindrichRavenslightcmk24
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,015
    ^ a rarely seen rational argument on the matters on immersion and fourth wall on the forums

  • kaguanakaguana Member Posts: 1,327
    jaysl659 said:

    I haven't seen the hordes of gamers claiming that they're looking forward to playing through IWD with an invulnerable party, I've simply seen people claiming that they exist and somehow getting offended on their behalf by those of us who are supposedly concerned with how they play or want to play the game (I know I'm certainly not). Are you all really saying that an invulnerable mode is a better solution to the problem of some people finding easy mode too hard than a couple of easier difficulty settings would have been? Please tell me why without accusing me of caring too much about how others play the game or by saying something along the lines of "well, we don't know which solution is better, why does it concern you?"

    I didn't said that it better and I didn't said that I like the option, I said that and I quote myself :
    kaguana said:

    While I don't really think an invulnerable mode is a good idea, who am I to say what good or bad for someone else, if it can help others to play the game and enjoy it, good for them, and if it not helping or make the game unenjoyable for other then just don't use it, that all.

    It an option to the good or bad that is only up to the person who play to decide it.

    That only my opinion ofc, and yeah maybe an easier difficulty then the easy mod but not invulnerable mod would have being better. But again who am I to say if it good or bad for someone else, I do not judge how other people like to play their games, if they find it enjoyable then why not ? if it easier for them to play the game like that hey that good for them.

    I think games should be enjoyable not a frustration thing that one always lose and die, each one of us have his own lvl of enjoyment and preferences of what lvl one wanna play the game.

    ElectricMonkRavenslightNimranrufus_hobart
  • VarwulfVarwulf Member Posts: 550
    Archaos said:

    Spoony made a video some time ago about challenge in RPGs or games in general and he brings an example from an ADnD campaign he run as a DM.

    Basically he said, "a game where you cannot lose is not a game but it's basically masturbation".
    And I agree, if you cannot lose in a game, it's not a game, it's a boring chore.

    Never heard self abuse described as a "boring chore" by anyone before. First time for everything I suppose.

    jackjackDreadKhanelminsterkcwise
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,409
    edited October 2014
    I still think God-Mode as a gameplay option by design is a bad idea.

    Like I said, even in Mass Effect 3 it makes battles very easy, not impossible to lose.
    I would much prefer Story-Mode to be One-Hit-Kills instead of invincibility.

    I wish there was a vote or something that actually showed roughly, how many people want to play a game they cannot lose. Except children or toddlers.

    I am not even talking about the challenge of the Infinity Engine games anymore. I'm speaking about any kind of game from any time-period.
    Even kindergarten's games have basic rules where you can fail, Hide and Seek for example.

    About videogames, sure there's the story but there's no motivation or sense of accomplishment to play such a game. It's going from place A to place B if you cannot die.
    And really, if someone needs to turn Story Mode on they are not going to enjoy a party-based, tactical, ADnD game, they're going to play Candy Crush.

    In short, I doubt people will go: "Wow this is so much fun! I cannot die in this party-based, tactical DnD game! It's so much fun having no challenge at all!"

    Part of the experience of the Infinity Engine games is having some kind of challenge, even on the easiest difficulty. It's one thing they are praised for.

    Would you really want to play in a PnP campaign where the DM makes you invincible on demand and you play "for the story"?

    -"Oh damn this dragon is going to kill us, hey dude (DM) can you make us invincible?"
    -"Sure"
    -*Dragon dies*
    -"Yeah! We defeated a dragon! lol"

    Post edited by Archaos on
    Ergdunbar
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    edited October 2014
    Archaos said:

    I wish there was a vote or something that actually showed roughly, how many people want to play a game they cannot lose.

    This.

    Also I wonder if there has been 100% consensus about this feature among the blues (I mean the people with blue background on this board) or if some of them were sceptical or even against it, either the whole feature or the proposed implementation.

    How did it go? The majority did rule? The boss had the final word on it? Or there was indeed consensus?

    Archaos
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,409
    edited October 2014
    @Erg‌
    Even though that would be nice as well but I was talking about some major site making a poll about it.

    "Would you like to play a game where there's an option to make you invincible without cheat-codes? Yes or No?"

    And see how many people from all kinds of consoles, platforms, ages, preferences on genres etc, voted with Yes.

    Erg
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    Archaos said:

    @Erg‌
    Even though that would be nice as well but I was talking about some major site making a poll about it.

    "Would you like to play a game where there's an option to make you invincible without cheat-codes? Yes or No?"

    And see how many people from all kinds of consoles, platforms, ages, preferences on genres etc, voted with Yes.

    Assume that we made a poll and the response was that only 10% of people on this forum (not a fair reflection of IWD:EE players overall) wanted the option for Story Mode to be included, then surely it is not a bad thing for it to be included?! There is zero (0!) negatives for the 90% of players who don't want or care about the feature.

    DreadKhankcwise
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    Heindrich said:

    It doesn't matter if only one person found story mode useful, if he/she did (and he/she is unlikely to be hanging out in these forums), then the game has been improved by the inclusion of the feature.

    It's not so simple, because

    1) the feature could be implemented in a different, and arguably better, way than what it's basically a god mode.
    2) alternatively, by discarding the feature entirely, resources could have been better spent on something else, maybe something arguably more worthy.
    etc.
    Heindrich said:

    If not, what is point of asking about the internal politics of decisions taken?

    Curiosity.
    Heindrich said:

    without any statistical proof one way or another, it is absurd to claim such people don't exist.

    Statical proof is not required, just common sense:
    Archaos said:

    In short, I doubt people will go: "Wow this is so much fun! I cannot die in this party-based, tactical DnD game! It's so much fun having no challenge at all!"

    Archaos
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,409
    edited October 2014
    @Heindrich‌

    One of the many reasons is because you would have no respect for the game if it allows you to destroy everything in your path and have zero challenge.

    Would you feel the same sense of accomplishment or have respect for Dark Souls or Ninja Gaiden if they had a God-Mode in the options by default?

    Do you believe Baldur's Gate would be considered a classic if there was an option to turn God-Mode on so easily back when it was released?

    Like I said, some of the challenge is part of the experience. Giving you an option to skip the challenge is bypassing a good portion of the experience.

    I have given suggestions to replace God-Mode. Which I still don't like but they're far better than eliminating all challenge on your first play-through with a click on an option.

    Erg
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,015
    "respect for the game"

    oh come on it's just an entertainment software product. the fact that you cherish/worship it doesn't mean that others have to do the same.

    joluv
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,409
    edited October 2014
    @bob_veng‌
    Your low opinion of classics or games is not shared by a ton of people either.

    "Respect classic rock-bands/music? Lol, they're just people playing notes for fun."

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,409
    edited October 2014
    Heindrich said:



    Assume that we made a poll and the response was that only 10% of people on this forum (not a fair reflection of IWD:EE players overall) wanted the option for Story Mode to be included, then surely it is not a bad thing for it to be included?! There is zero (0!) negatives for the 90% of players who don't want or care about the feature.

    The negative is that you're giving people an effortless option to bypass a huge part of the experience of a game on their first time.

    Infinity Engine games without the challenge are not the same, I firmly believe. And others on the forum, reviews etc feel the same.
    The challenge is a major factor they're special, because they make you think and find solutions.

    They're tactical, party-based, (A)DnD games after all.

    Erg
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,514
    And how he hell do you guus know how Story Mode will be implemented precisely??

    There is no reason to not includemit as an option. Quit being butthurt babies and move on. Making the game capable of reaching the broadest audience possible is a good thing, and this lets inexperienced players try the game wihout being brutally destroyed by everything their first playthrough. Appreciating the art, music and STORY are all worthy challenges, even if your characters do the troll thing.

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,409
    edited October 2014
    DreadKhan said:

    And how he hell do you guus know how Story Mode will be implemented precisely??

    Because this.
    Jalily said:

    Your characters are invulnerable in Story Mode.

    Also:
    DreadKhan said:

    Appreciating the art, music and STORY are all worthy challenges, even if your characters do the troll thing.

    These are not challenges. Nothing is challenging you and you need to emerge victorious. It's just that, appreciating the art, music and story.

    ErgDJKajuru
This discussion has been closed.