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'Story mode'?

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  • The_New_RomanceThe_New_Romance Member Posts: 839
    I didn't say anything about non-linearity being a problem. Linear stories can be very good - I do read books, and I also find linear games to my liking. If, however, only if the story is actually good. Maybe I misunderstood IWD, but I always felt it's story could be summed up in a very Minsc-y "there's Evil underway, draw your swords".

    IWD2, for example, drew me in more storywise. It was just more engaging. I play IWD1 for it's atmosphere, the music and vistas and the possibility of having six self-made 2E characters. The story isn't that much of a driving force to me. As someone mentioned above, it's made worse by being stretched thin through combat, but even without that much combat I don't believe it would be a wholly different experience.

    That being said, however, I have no problem with an optional story mode. I only doubt that it's an engaging experience in this game, especially with invulnerability. I also don't think the target audience is big.
  • old_jolly2old_jolly2 Member Posts: 453
    edited September 2014
    Heart of Fury 2, is what I had expected. Games are getting similar to movies everyday. And if there is no Heart of Fury 2 , a greater challenge embedded , then there is no reason for me left to start the game again , as those many others who beat the game with it.
  • CoryNewbCoryNewb Member Posts: 1,330
    Cool idea. I'm not opposed to it because there will be people that want to take advantage of it, and will see it as a feature when they get stuck. It doesn't impact me at all how other people want to play, so play on people. IWD ahoy!

    (Recently, a PC game called "The Gods Will Be Watching" had a "mercy" patch with a very easy difficulty introduced to help with RNG and made the game easy....also, that game is brutally difficult)
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    Jarrakul said:



    IWD2, by contrast, was the heartwarming story of how disenfranchised minorities are all murderous scum who worship a god of pointless evil and only a band of brave heroes from the seven master races can stop them. With some token "they're only evil because we rejected them" thrown in as though saying that made a difference. Yeah, IWD2 was my least favorite IE game.

    I wasn't really a fan of the story of Icewind Dale 2 but I really liked its character creation. All the subraces and clerics for different gods (as well as paladins and monks having their own god/order).
    jackjackDelvariankaguanaMoomintroll
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,207
    Calmar said:

    Maybe the game wants to be an allegory on how the exclusion of unfortunate minorities might backfire, or on how you shouldn't allow yourself to become the monster that the heartless want you to be lest six armed and violent mercenaries break your door to mess you up and take your loot. :S

    I like to believe the developers just wanted to make a game, a piece of entertainment software to bring happiness into our lives. I long for the day when all the people who try to analyze all movies and games to claim they have some agenda are put on a spaceship headed to the opposite side of the galaxy, leaving the rest of us to just enjoy entertainment that is entertaining for the sake of it :)
    artificial_sunlightCalmarElrandirkaguana
  • The_New_RomanceThe_New_Romance Member Posts: 839

    Calmar said:

    Maybe the game wants to be an allegory on how the exclusion of unfortunate minorities might backfire, or on how you shouldn't allow yourself to become the monster that the heartless want you to be lest six armed and violent mercenaries break your door to mess you up and take your loot. :S

    I like to believe the developers just wanted to make a game, a piece of entertainment software to bring happiness into our lives. I long for the day when all the people who try to analyze all movies and games to claim they have some agenda are put on a spaceship headed to the opposite side of the galaxy, leaving the rest of us to just enjoy entertainment that is entertaining for the sake of it :)
    Especially in a high-fantasy context.
    Silverstarjackjack
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    IWD2 had pretty deeply fleshed out and understandable antagonists, and imho, the story as @Calmar‌ points out is about how decent goals can corrupted if love and mutual respect are absent. It was a bit loaded down with some cheesey concepts/tropes, ie 'humans are the real monsters' (the mistreatment of the Cambions) and 'monolithic evil' (every bad guy is inexplicably united... if it was all supposed to be misfit crossbreeds, why are goblins, orcs, Aurilites, etc, allied? The explanations given arent... bad, but they arent great either).

    IWD2 is more story based than IWD, and while very good, you really do have to dig/make the right choices in action and dialogue. IWD2 is vastly improved by acess to a good walkthrough, especially if you didnt take Wilderness Lore. Some puzzles were indeed puzzling.
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    I don't really see why Icewind Dale needs a story mode, even for casual gamers. All you need to beat the game is persistence. When I first played Icewind Dale, I was in elementary school and I didn't know what I was doing. When I finally beat the final boss, four out of six of my party members had died in the final battle, and I definitely was not playing on the hardest difficulty either. But I still beat the game.

    Also, I feel like playing "story mode" would actually damage the atmosphere of the game for casual players. It would be hard to take the troubles that have befallen the Dale seriously if not even the final boss can kill you. Why would the enemies even bother attacking you if they can't do anything to you? In addition, what would be the fun in the combat if you can't lose? There will still be enemies even if you are invulnerable, so I think fighting them would feel kind of pointless. I mean, so what if you get experience? Even if you fight the final boss at a low level, it doesn't matter because he can't kill you.

    I think that the game's easy mode could be the story mode. It doesn't need an even easier mode.
    kcwise
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    edited September 2014
    Another thing I should mention: in the original pre-HoW Icewind Dale, you got less experience when playing on easier difficulties. That won't necessarily be the case in the enhanced edition. I think even a casual player could probably beat Yxunomei on the easiest difficulty with a few reloads.

    Maybe a good way to implement the story mode would be to have less enemies in that mode, rather than making you invincible.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Zeckul said:

    DreadKhan said:

    IWD2 is more story based than IWD, and while very good, you really do have to dig/make the right choices in action and dialogue. IWD2 is vastly improved by acess to a good walkthrough, especially if you didnt take Wilderness Lore. Some puzzles were indeed puzzling.

    Yeah that puzzling one was so very puzzly. I puzzled over its puzzliness for a great deal. Even with wilderness lore sometimes it's puzzlingly puzzlificous.

    After flubbing the Glacier temple for several years (...I gave up in fury. Despite knowing what I needed to do, I couldnt make it work), so I just googled that one before my patience curled up in a corner again!
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,875
    edited September 2014

    In addition, what would be the fun in the combat if you can't lose?

    Winning.

    Not losing?
    DreadKhan
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075

    In addition, what would be the fun in the combat if you can't lose?

    Winning.

    But why would winning be fun?
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857

    In addition, what would be the fun in the combat if you can't lose?

    Winning.

    But why would winning be fun?
    ...because being roasted on a spit by Yaun-ti isnt everyone's cup of tea?
    NimranElrandirkaguana
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,875
    edited September 2014
    DreadKhan said:

    In addition, what would be the fun in the combat if you can't lose?

    Winning.

    But why would winning be fun?
    ...because being roasted on a spit by Yaun-ti isnt everyone's cup of tea?
    Someone has obviously never been rotisseried before. It's not pleasant, ya know.
    DreadKhanjackjackJuliusBorisovelminster
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714

    In addition, what would be the fun in the combat if you can't lose?

    Winning.

    But why would winning be fun?
    Well, you get XP, find new items and overall progress through the game
    Nimranjackjackelminsterkaguana
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    bengoshi said:

    In addition, what would be the fun in the combat if you can't lose?

    Winning.

    But why would winning be fun?
    Well, you get XP, find new items and overall progress through the game
    You don't need XP if you are indestructible.
  • FaydarkFaydark Member Posts: 279
    Of course you do, how do you get to play with the higher level abilities and spells if you don't level up?

    (again, it's optional.. may I suggest you don't use it? (I won't be) )
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    edited October 2014
    What do you need high level abilities and spells for when your pure mage can stab Belhifet to death with a random enchanted dagger without dying and without spamming Mirror Image and Stoneskin?
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    edited October 2014

    But why would winning be fun?

    As a guy who spent five solid days* of his life during playtesting trying to get out of the Vale of Shadows with his character alive, I can tell you with no hesitation that there is an audience for Story Mode.




    *It wouldn't have been quite that bad if I didn't have to deal with a bug that kept me in perpetual combat mode in the Vale. If I could have slept/recovered once in awhile, it might have taken me as little as three and a half days to get out of there. However, I never, ever, ehhhhhver would have gotten by the trolls that showed up soon after w/out SM.

    First of all, that bug probably won't be in the finished game. Second of all, what difficulty were you playing on?

    EDIT: Oh, and what was so bad about the trolls? I mean, sometimes they can be really annoying because I simply don't have a fire or acid attack, but Story Mode isn't exactly going to help with that.
    Post edited by OlvynChuru on
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