Your fear that the game will become somehow soiled and disrespected by some new feature that can be turned on/off makes you look like a looney fundamentalist. Just use the previous version.
If you don't want to use Story Mode then don't use it. If the fact that anything like Story Mode is even part of a game then don't buy it if you feel that strongly about it. I could use the console for Fallout3 or FONV and then "tgm" to become invincible but I don't unless I am trying to check something out or do something stupid just for kicks. I may dislike that such a thing exists from a personal preference point of view but I wasn't about to avoid those games because of it.
1) the feature could be implemented in a different, and arguably better, way than what it's basically a god mode. 2) alternatively, by discarding the feature entirely, resources could have been better spent on something else, maybe something arguably more worthy. etc.
You could make an argument about the cost-benefit efficiency of implementing a new game feature. But this feature is clearly already done, so at this stage, it makes no sense to demand its removal from the game. As I said, even if it only benefits 10% of players, nay even 1%, then it is still a net-improvement to the game, and thus something to be welcomed.
One of the many reasons is because you would have no respect for the game if it allows you to destroy everything in your path and have zero challenge.
Would you feel the same sense of accomplishment or have respect for Dark Souls or Ninja Gaiden if they had a God-Mode in the options by default?
Do you believe Baldur's Gate would be considered a classic if there was an option to turn God-Mode on so easily back when it was released?
Like I said, some of the challenge is part of the experience. Giving you an option to skip the challenge is bypassing a good portion of the experience.
I have given suggestions to replace God-Mode. Which I still don't like but they're far better than eliminating all challenge on your first play-through with a click on an option.
Storymode will clearly not be the "default" game mode for players. I disagree that the option of an "faceroll mode" somehow reduces a game's overall quality and its "street-cred".
Try to think of it this way. The powergamers will still get a challenge out of the most difficult settings. The semi-casuals (like me) will still enjoy a balanced roleplaying/tactical style of play in Normal/Medium difficulty modes. The super-casuals who would have given up after the first few party wipes and/or simply not tried the game might be drawn into IWD:EE via the Storymode, and perhaps become motivated enough to learn the mechanics to make subsequent playthroughs of IE games without the Storymode. i.e. nobody loses anything and the game becomes more accessible for some.
With all due respect, @Erg and @Archaos. I think you guys make the mistake of assuming that your views are somehow representative of the mainstream and/or majority. Even if that were true, it does not mean the game cannot have options to cater for other types of gamers, and more options are a good thing.
For example the fact that Dark Souls has a reputation for brutal difficulty is actually a factor that has kept me disinterested from the series as a whole. I play games for fun, to experience interesting stories and solve challenges in my personal ways. I don't care to min/max or develop muscle memory of difficult moves to defeat an uber difficult challenge. I enjoy a challenge, but the challenge itself is not my primary sense of satisfaction and enjoyment.
Try to think of it this way. The powergamers will still get a challenge out of the most difficult settings. The semi-casuals (like me) will still enjoy a balanced roleplaying/tactical style of play in Normal/Medium difficulty modes. The super-casuals who would have given up after the first few party wipes and/or simply not tried the game might be drawn into IWD:EE via the Storymode, and perhaps become motivated enough to learn the mechanics to make subsequent playthroughs of IE games without the Storymode. i.e. nobody loses anything and the game becomes more accessible for some.
My wife plays her games on core/normal settings, giving her just enough challenge without making things too difficult. I play on the most difficult settings because it appears that I like to punish myself from time to time. The kids play on easiest settings--they just want to have a little fun on the computer after finishing their homework and aren't interested in powergaming or micromanaging combat. The kids will *love* Story Mode.
I think you guys make the mistake of assuming that your views are somehow representative of the mainstream and/or majority.
@Heindrich, I disagree with almost everything in your post, but I especially disagree with the quote above. I don't think that my opinion is representative of the majority, it is just my opinion. Besides, at least in this board, it seems to represents only a minority of the people.
In short, I doubt people will go: "Wow this is so much fun! I cannot die in this party-based, tactical DnD game! It's so much fun having no challenge at all!"
@Heindrich, I disagree with almost everything in your post, but I especially disagree with the quote above. I don't think that my opinion is representative of the majority, it is just my opinion. Besides, at least in this board, it seems to represents only a minority of the people.
@Erg Right... well if you recognise that, then surely you must accept that it would be unreasonable for your minority opinion to somehow override the majority and remove a feature already announced for the release of the game. If you do not then you are essentially saying that my opinion is more important than everyone elses'
Yes you have a right to express a minority opinion, and you have done that, but you cannot seriously expect to either change a decision that's obviously already been made, or somehow argue your point until more people are also upset with a decision that they can choose to totally ignore.
True, the possibility exists that they won't like it but I will wager a pint of beer that I know my kids better than you do. (these are the kids who learned how to access/use the console for NWN and NWN2 and routinely use both that and the toolset to give themselves the best equipment and feats when starting over with a 1st-level character for the millionth time)
Well, we can wait and see if it backfires and what other people, outside of this forum, have to say.
I will say it again, the challenge is a big part of the game. Putting a "No-Lose" (instead of an "Insta-win") button in a game is a decision other companies or games haven't done for a reason in any platform.
Because not losing in a game, no matter how hard or easy or casual it is, is a bad design decision even if it's optional.
No, console commands don't count, those are debug tools.
Appreciating the art, music and STORY are all worthy challenges, even if your characters do the troll thing.
These are not challenges. Nothing is challenging you and you need to emerge victorious. It's just that, appreciating the art, music and story.
And what EXACTLY does invulnerability mean? Oh, based on some previous whines in this thread, it means you can beat enemies more easily. Which is obviously a stupid position ultimately. Trolls are invulnerable to everything but fire and acid, but beating the game as a solo troll would not be easy really, even if the challenge is mostly gone.
Reality is, you don't even know how this invulnerabilty is ultimately going to work, so stop whining. Many people have stated ON THIS FORUM that its a cool/good/interesting idea. Thus the argument that no such people exist is borderline moronic.
Wait, is appreciating art for you literally nothing but observing??? You havr GOT to be kidding me. There are PhD programs devoted to critical theory, ie fully appreciating the arts. I'll let them know @Archaos said they are wasting their time, brb
@archos and @Erg If you are both right and the people outside of the forum won't like it then maybe they will change it who knows but we can't know it till the game actually be release, so what the point with all this argument ?? Ok we said / heard our opinion that are numerously lets just wait and see what will happen next.
Right... well if you recognise that, then surely you must accept that it would be unreasonable for your minority opinion to somehow override the majority and remove a feature already announced for the release of the game. If you do not then you are essentially saying that my opinion is more important than everyone elses'
Yes you have a right to express a minority opinion, and you have done that, but you cannot seriously expect to either change a decision that's obviously already been made, or somehow argue your point until more people are also upset with a decision that they can choose to totally ignore.
I don't think ideas should be evaluated only according to how popular they are, otherwise we would all have to agree that watching a reality show is a better idea than playing IWD
I'm not expecting the devs will change anything based on my feedback, but this idea is IMO so bad that I can't help but voice my disagreement.
Try to think of it this way. The powergamers will still get a challenge out of the most difficult settings. The semi-casuals (like me) will still enjoy a balanced roleplaying/tactical style of play in Normal/Medium difficulty modes. The super-casuals who would have given up after the first few party wipes and/or simply not tried the game might be drawn into IWD:EE via the Storymode, and perhaps become motivated enough to learn the mechanics to make subsequent playthroughs of IE games without the Storymode. i.e. nobody loses anything and the game becomes more accessible for some.
My wife plays her games on core/normal settings, giving her just enough challenge without making things too difficult. I play on the most difficult settings because it appears that I like to punish myself from time to time. The kids play on easiest settings--they just want to have a little fun on the computer after finishing their homework and aren't interested in powergaming or micromanaging combat. The kids will *love* Story Mode.
Nope, apparently your kids will hate Story Mode. I read something some guy who had never even seen storymode wrote that said so, then he said his literally groundless opinions were factual and objective, so it must be true. I'll let you explain it to your kids, why they actually hate the option.
And what EXACTLY does invulnerability mean? Oh, based on some previous whines in this thread, it means you can beat enemies more easily. Which is obviously a stupid position ultimately. Trolls are invulnerable to everything but fire and acid, but beating the game as a solo troll would not be easy really, even if the challenge is mostly gone.
Reality is, you don't even know how this invulnerabilty is ultimately going to work, so stop whining. Many people have stated ON THIS FORUM that its a cool/good/interesting idea. Thus the argument that no such people exist is borderline moronic.
Wait, is appreciating art for you literally nothing but observing??? You havr GOT to be kidding me. There are PhD programs devoted to critical theory, ie fully appreciating the arts. I'll let them know @Archaos said they are wasting their time, brb
1) "Full Definition of INVULNERABLE : incapable of being wounded, injured, or harmed "
God-Mode. No damage taken, invincibility, cannot be injured, immunity to damage.
2) No dev/mod said that invulnerability is not invincibility. So there you go. They didn't step in to correct us.
3) That was completely off-topic and very stretched. We are talking about the challenge in the difficulty of a game if it wasn't obvious enough for you.
@Jalily Can you explain to us the meaning of the mod please is invulnerability mean the characters are invincible and can't get hurt at all or just can't die?
True, the possibility exists that they won't like it but I will wager a pint of beer that I know my kids better than you do. (these are the kids who learned how to access/use the console for NWN and NWN2 and routinely use both that and the toolset to give themselves the best equipment and feats when starting over with a 1st-level character for the millionth time)
@Mathsorcerer, from your description they look like smart kids. Smart kids IMO don't need a "Story Mode" to enjoy the game. It is more likely that the lack of challenge will bore them senseless
They are old enough that they don't need to be micromanaged all the time but not old enough for quasi-independence. Technically, no, I didn't answer your question but that is, regrettably, the only answer I will offer.
@Mathsorcerer, from your description they look like smart kids. Smart kids IMO don't need a "Story Mode" to enjoy the game. It is more likely that the lack of challenge will bore them senseless
Oh, they'll love it at first but at some point I will advise them to turn it off and play on at least core. Our son will probably move away from it first, especially once he starts playing around with the tools for IWDEE that I have. I will have more difficulty getting him to quit naming his monk characters things like "punchy" or "kicky"...but I have to admit those are hilarious names.
I personally feel that @Erg and @Archaos have expressed their views, and others including myself have expressed counter-opinions, and I wonder if anything constructive can come out of further circular arguments.
I won't close the thread unless things get out of hand and/or if the OP requests it, (Poor OP just had a simple question and it initiated a massive debate lol) but obviously the mods are watching.
And what EXACTLY does invulnerability mean? Oh, based on some previous whines in this thread, it means you can beat enemies more easily. Which is obviously a stupid position ultimately. Trolls are invulnerable to everything but fire and acid, but beating the game as a solo troll would not be easy really, even if the challenge is mostly gone.
Reality is, you don't even know how this invulnerabilty is ultimately going to work, so stop whining. Many people have stated ON THIS FORUM that its a cool/good/interesting idea. Thus the argument that no such people exist is borderline moronic.
Wait, is appreciating art for you literally nothing but observing??? You havr GOT to be kidding me. There are PhD programs devoted to critical theory, ie fully appreciating the arts. I'll let them know @Archaos said they are wasting their time, brb
1) "Full Definition of INVULNERABLE : incapable of being wounded, injured, or harmed "
God-Mode. No damage taken, invincibility, cannot be damaged, immunity to damage.
2) No dev/mod said that invulnerability is not invincibility. So there you go. They didn't step in to correct us.
3) That was completely off-topic and stretched. We are talking about the challenge in the difficulty of a game.
1) Considering IE games have specifically refered to generic trolls as being INVULNERABLE to everything but fire and acid, you are missing the point. Invulnerability can come in many forms.
2) So what? They have no reason to. Tons of spitballing on this forum never gets acknowledged or commemted on by the devs.
3) Actually, no, we are ALL arguing about enjoyment of the game. There isn't a right way to do so, nor any wrong ways. You don't get to tell people how to play the game. If you EVER have used a cheat or exploit in any game ever, you have ultimately disproven your own position. I am pretty confident you have, and like most gamers, have found cheats/eploits can sometimes ruin a game, but other times can make it more interesting.
They are old enough that they don't need to be micromanaged all the time but not old enough for quasi-independence. Technically, no, I didn't answer your question but that is, regrettably, the only answer I will offer.
Thank for your answer I understand more or less what ages those are
I think this thread has gone as far as it's going to constructively go.
More information about Story Mode and the multitude of other enhancements that are more significant than Story Mode will be coming as we get closer to release. I would encourage everyone to calm down and wait for information before jumping on bandwagons and starting riots in the streets. We obviously can't keep people from thinking what they think or believing what they believe, but we can stop debates that are doing nothing but polarizing the community.
Comments
And that's why they're not as respected as artists or music. Now you know.
Storymode will clearly not be the "default" game mode for players. I disagree that the option of an "faceroll mode" somehow reduces a game's overall quality and its "street-cred".
Try to think of it this way. The powergamers will still get a challenge out of the most difficult settings. The semi-casuals (like me) will still enjoy a balanced roleplaying/tactical style of play in Normal/Medium difficulty modes. The super-casuals who would have given up after the first few party wipes and/or simply not tried the game might be drawn into IWD:EE via the Storymode, and perhaps become motivated enough to learn the mechanics to make subsequent playthroughs of IE games without the Storymode. i.e. nobody loses anything and the game becomes more accessible for some.
With all due respect, @Erg and @Archaos. I think you guys make the mistake of assuming that your views are somehow representative of the mainstream and/or majority. Even if that were true, it does not mean the game cannot have options to cater for other types of gamers, and more options are a good thing.
For example the fact that Dark Souls has a reputation for brutal difficulty is actually a factor that has kept me disinterested from the series as a whole. I play games for fun, to experience interesting stories and solve challenges in my personal ways. I don't care to min/max or develop muscle memory of difficult moves to defeat an uber difficult challenge. I enjoy a challenge, but the challenge itself is not my primary sense of satisfaction and enjoyment.
Right... well if you recognise that, then surely you must accept that it would be unreasonable for your minority opinion to somehow override the majority and remove a feature already announced for the release of the game. If you do not then you are essentially saying that my opinion is more important than everyone elses'
Yes you have a right to express a minority opinion, and you have done that, but you cannot seriously expect to either change a decision that's obviously already been made, or somehow argue your point until more people are also upset with a decision that they can choose to totally ignore.
I will say it again, the challenge is a big part of the game.
Putting a "No-Lose" (instead of an "Insta-win") button in a game is a decision other companies or games haven't done for a reason in any platform.
Because not losing in a game, no matter how hard or easy or casual it is, is a bad design decision even if it's optional.
No, console commands don't count, those are debug tools.
Reality is, you don't even know how this invulnerabilty is ultimately going to work, so stop whining. Many people have stated ON THIS FORUM that its a cool/good/interesting idea. Thus the argument that no such people exist is borderline moronic.
Wait, is appreciating art for you literally nothing but observing??? You havr GOT to be kidding me. There are PhD programs devoted to critical theory, ie fully appreciating the arts. I'll let them know @Archaos said they are wasting their time, brb
Ok we said / heard our opinion that are numerously lets just wait and see what will happen next.
I'm not expecting the devs will change anything based on my feedback, but this idea is IMO so bad that I can't help but voice my disagreement.
: incapable of being wounded, injured, or harmed "
God-Mode. No damage taken, invincibility, cannot be injured, immunity to damage.
2) No dev/mod said that invulnerability is not invincibility. So there you go. They didn't step in to correct us.
3) That was completely off-topic and very stretched. We are talking about the challenge in the difficulty of a game if it wasn't obvious enough for you.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/10852/site-rules-mind-the-gap
I personally feel that @Erg and @Archaos have expressed their views, and others including myself have expressed counter-opinions, and I wonder if anything constructive can come out of further circular arguments.
I won't close the thread unless things get out of hand and/or if the OP requests it, (Poor OP just had a simple question and it initiated a massive debate lol) but obviously the mods are watching.
Edit: lol double ninja'd...
2) So what? They have no reason to. Tons of spitballing on this forum never gets acknowledged or commemted on by the devs.
3) Actually, no, we are ALL arguing about enjoyment of the game. There isn't a right way to do so, nor any wrong ways. You don't get to tell people how to play the game. If you EVER have used a cheat or exploit in any game ever, you have ultimately disproven your own position. I am pretty confident you have, and like most gamers, have found cheats/eploits can sometimes ruin a game, but other times can make it more interesting.
More information about Story Mode and the multitude of other enhancements that are more significant than Story Mode will be coming as we get closer to release. I would encourage everyone to calm down and wait for information before jumping on bandwagons and starting riots in the streets. We obviously can't keep people from thinking what they think or believing what they believe, but we can stop debates that are doing nothing but polarizing the community.
Thread Closed.