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Options for spicing up Garrick?

2

Comments

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    CamDawg said:

    I know this isn't exactly what you're asking, but I love having Garrick in the party with BG1 NPC Project. Andy's writing for him is a lot of fun.

    @CamDawg is this Andyr fellow on the forum? I want to personally thank him for making Garrick (and Quayle) so great with the BG1NPC Project

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,448

    Skatan said:

    Btw, as a side note, with potions of haste now doubling APR, Garrick dishes out 4 bolts of lightning per round with pretty decent THAC0 without any modding/changing whatsoever. Perhaps he can start with a few potions of haste in his quickslot?

    What's this? Since when have they started doubling APR? I've totally missed this!

    Sorry for late reply, but yes I think it's in the beta. I've played 2.5 since the first day so grown accustomed to it. @JuliusBorisov could probably confirm since I'm notoriously bad at remembering which patch added which things and have the memory of a goldfish when it comes to these things.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 18,586
    The change of the APR for potions of hast was made in the 2.5 beta, yes. See a discussion starting from here.

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,284
    Fun fact: Goldfish have reasonable memories and can even be trained.

    Balrog99
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,966
    edited March 2018
    ThacoBell said:

    Fun fact: Goldfish have reasonable memories and can even be trained.

    Which is one hell of a trick for a tasty snack cracker.

    ThacoBellMirandelBalrog99
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,394

    @CamDawg is this Andyr fellow on the forum? I want to personally thank him for making Garrick (and Quayle) so great with the BG1NPC Project

    Unfortunately Andyr's been long gone.

    booinyoureyes
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 877

    The change of the APR for potions of hast was made in the 2.5 beta, yes. See a discussion starting from here.

    Haven't tried the beta but if Oils of Speed really double the APR, as per the IH spell, this is a gigantic game breaker and I really hope this will be reverted. They are one of the most common potions in the game(s) and while a mage can load their spellbook with IH there's a lot of competition at spell level 6. This also would make the Whirlwind and Greater Whirlwind HLAs lose significant value. Due to a potion available even in BG1.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,284
    The descriptions have always stated that the potions double apr. I think the idea is that code is easier to mess up than text, so if there is a discrepency, the code is brought in line with the text.

    Also, kinda pointless to complain about balance when Mages, Beserkers, Bards, and Insect Swarm exists.

    Balrog99
  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 1,422
    ThacoBell said:

    The descriptions have always stated that the potions double apr. I think the idea is that code is easier to mess up than text, so if there is a discrepency, the code is brought in line with the text.

    Also, kinda pointless to complain about balance when Mages, Beserkers, Bards, and Insect Swarm exists.

    The thing is that players are used to how it was working, so you will always get complaints when you change an item or spell.

    ThacoBellDJKajuru
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,141
    @ThacoBell

    You can sit on a chair that's a bit unbalanced. Might not be ideal but you can still use it.
    However, if you go so far as to completely saw off two legs, would you say you have improved the situation or made it worse?

    @lefreut

    ".....always get complaints when you change....."

    I don't want to sound harsh, but I'm sick to death of this argument.

    It's always used as a reason to invalidate criticism of a change and it is meaningless because it negates any criticism being valid for any other reason other than "people just don't like change". For every updated product or game or film or anything, this is the default response. It allows producers of everything to get away with pushing out ill considered and poor product.

    It is quite possible to criticise a change because the change is objectively detrimental to the original product.

    BrecherDJKajuru
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,284
    I mean, the original devs wrote the in-game text to say that potions of speed double apr. All Beamdog has done is brought it up to the original intentions of the devs.

    Balrog99
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 4,719
    edited March 2018
    I assume that the speed potions used by the enemies are also enhanced. There probably aren't many used on normal mode, but what about core and insane? If not, I'm sure SCS enemies use them.

    Edit: I'm also one of the idiots who thought that the potion worked as described. I didn't know that it wasn't doubling apr until I read this thread. I can't be the only one who doesn't pay attention to every detail while I'm battling, so most players likely won't even notice the difference.

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,284
    Yeah, I was more surprised to learn they didn't already double apr as game lead me to believe all these years.

  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 1,568
    Well there's a good way to spice up Garrick, give him double apr potions.

    If OP is still at a loss as to what to do with Garrick after all these years, he's probably all set by now.

    Balrog99booinyoureyes
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 877
    ThacoBell said:

    The descriptions have always stated that the potions double apr. I think the idea is that code is easier to mess up than text, so if there is a discrepency, the code is brought in line with the text.

    Changing the description isn't much harder no. And would make a lot more sense. Doubling APR means a cheap and plentiful potion scales like crazy when you gain level and gears.
    ThacoBell said:

    Also, kinda pointless to complain about balance when Mages, Beserkers, Bards, and Insect Swarm exists.

    Yeah balance in the BG games is pretty wonky I won't deny that. But this isn't an argument you're making here, just a dismissal (at least you didn't type "don't like it, don't use it" - I would have been really mad had you done that). APR is capped at 5 for everything that isn't IH, Whirlwind or the Ring of Gaxx because after that it's just so powerful. Not an effect that should be distributed frivolously.

    Well that's pretty easy to revert if it does make it in the final patch but I surely hope this change doesn't become official.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 897
    From what I understand oils of speed could already be stacked to reach pretty severe APR.

    Do they stack exponentially now? As in could Garrick with a crossbow of speed drink an Oil of Speed to reach 4 apr, then drink another oil of speed to reach 8 APR, then another to reach 16, and so on and so forth?

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,284
    @Kurona As I mentioned above, I always thought potions of speed ALREADY did that. The game told me they did. I only realized they don't when the potions were fixed for the beta. And again, the original devs proof read the description and said "yeah, thats correct." Which is more likely, that somebody miss typed some text, or that someone messed up game scripting (in a game that was FULL of bugs)?
    We have a class that can ignore every disabler in the game at will and 3 classes that grant the corrected potion of speed's effect. Why is one potion, which now works as the game described it for 15 years, so game breaking and unacceptable?

    Balrog99
  • ArthasArthas Member Posts: 900
    @CamDawg hey, I read your opinion about garrick and andy writing in BG1. I was wondering, do you use any mod concerning garrick for BG2?

  • BanArdBanArd Member Posts: 60
    Give Garrick the Bracers of Archery and a + in Darts and Short Bows, rest of equipment is irrelevant. During important fights, feed him a Potion of Agility (sets DEX to 18), Focused Mind (+3 DEX) and Potion of Power (-3 THAC0 at least). Watch him dispel, stun, poison and fireball all enemies 3~4 times per round while your fighter hacks them to death. Btw, he can cast from scrolls and wands and spells better than your mage. And all these potions, scrolls and wands won’t cost you a cent because he can pickpocket them all.

    C’mon people, bards are jack-of-all-trades and master-of-all in BG1.



    ThacoBell
  • butteredsoulbutteredsoul Member Posts: 162
    Well... he can use scrolls and wands the same as a mage... but his level for spells he casts himself (Remove Magic anyone??) will be better than your mage.

    Bards are great in BG1. :wink:

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 187
    The level difference isn't a big deal in BG1; bards are zero to one level ahead of pure mages throughout. It's only once you get into the linear part of the experience curve at level 12+ that bard caster level really pulls ahead of mages.

    Oh, and how has nobody mentioned free identification for practically everything? Bard lore is such a great class feature for convenience.

    DJKajuruleeux
  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 658
    Wands. Use the fire wand as basic attack and kill anything.

    Dharius
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 568
    Wand use, decent caster level, better missile weapons, more favorable THAC0, some pickpocketing skill, slightly higher hit points, and a "sunny personality" are all reasons to go with Garrick in BG1. However his caster level isn't appreciably better than a mage's in BG1 nor does he let you do without a thief since he can't handle locks/traps. He isn't a bad fifth or sixth party member though he would have been stronger as a blade.

    ThacoBell
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 557
    Garrick is easily my favorite Dedicated Wand User and usually the reason I'm able to take down Sarevok.

  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 416
    I wonder, if use gender change belt, make Garrika, if affects anything. Would carry over to SoD?

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,028
    Kitless bards are very powerful and useful in BG1. With the right spells , items and potions they can cause lots of damage and boost the party in several ways.

    It is in BG2 that kitless bards start losing ground because their thac0, damage and spells are still average while fighters and mages do everything better.

  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 416
    DJKajuru wrote: »
    Kitless bards are very powerful and useful in BG1. With the right spells , items and potions they can cause lots of damage and boost the party in several ways.

    Same is true for mage, right?

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,028
    DJKajuru wrote: »
    Kitless bards are very powerful and useful in BG1. With the right spells , items and potions they can cause lots of damage and boost the party in several ways.

    Same is true for mage, right?

    Yes, but we're discussing Garrick's usefulness, aren't we?

  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 416
    edited August 3
    Edit: deleted. Didn't add anything of value to the discussion.

    Post edited by ElysianEchoes on
  • butteredsoulbutteredsoul Member Posts: 162
    edited August 3
    Who said Garrick has to be a big deal difference compared to a mage? If his dispel/remove magic success rate increases by 5-10% over a mage, your entire party + summons are hasted for an extra round, his skull trap does an extra d6, his flame arrow fires another missile, his mirror image pops another G-man, and so on..., you take it. Or do you keep your +1 weapon over the +2 replacement because +5% to hit and +1 point of damage are not big deals? ;)

    So when Sarevok & sidekicks are getting level-10-dispelled, 20 rounds of greater malison, and a 10d6 skull trap, they may worry less about half-blood-brother-you and more about sunny-side-up chunk-master sweet-pipes.
    kkzyv18uiqsr.png
    "Hmmmm. Interesting...."

    And good point!!! Free identify is super convenient... especially three levels undergroud when you find a wand you'd like to use.

    Post edited by butteredsoul on
    DJKajuruElysianEchoesThacoBell
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