Straight people don't get a parade, so why should gay people? Don't force anybody to be anything and if you're a man who likes men you have no MORE and no LESS reason to be proud than a straight man.
*rolls eyes*
Not to get super off-topic or anything but...
Straight people aren't getting disowned by their families or getting fired from their jobs simply by being straight. We still live in a society where people are looked down upon for simply being a minority.
Things like gay pride are around because it's telling people who have been told that they're a freak or an abomination that no, you don't have to be ashamed of yourself and there's nothing wrong with you.
ANYWAYS...
Who would you rather be the m/m option? Rasaad or Dorn?
@the9shadows It happens. I know kids who get abandoned because they won't go to church anymore, but we don't see pride campaigns against institutionalized religion.
The way I see it gay discrimination is like black discrimination and woman discrimination, it doesn't exist anymore but people keep fueling it so it gets passed down to new people who don't even know or care what the point of it is, it's just a bandwagon type thing.
I'd rather it be Rasaard because I'd never use a monk and if Dorn is tough like he looks then I don't want the main backup to be hitting on me.
@Ward Not gonna get into a political discussion here, but after several states took away women's access to birth control and an abortion (or tried to do the same, or made women waiting for an abortion have to undergo a useless procedure to get one, and legislated that Doctors could lie to a woman about the health of her fetus if they thought that she would be moved to get an abortion after they disclosed the information- and not be sued for lying to the woman), I would no longer say that women are not discriminated against. Oh, and paying for birth control for women in health plans is somehow wrong, but paying for Viagra for men in health plans is somehow well and fine and praiseworthy? A certain party may claim that are not waging a war on women, but from the bills they are passing, it makes a lie of such claims.
@Ward just have gone too far in his concepts, but i understand and agree with him.
Today in 2012, the level of prejudice isn't the same of 20 or 30 years ago. Society accept each time more behaviors and options that were once stigmatized.
The huge problem of the actual society is what i call "counter prejudice", i had to invent a term yes, as normally very few people want to touch this subject. Today we live the inverse of prejudice.
A black person can walk on the street with a shirt 100% black, try to use a 100% white and see how people will look at you (in Brazil, where racism is a crime, you would be literally fucked). We have gay parades as @Ward said, but make an hetero parade and people will call you fascist, extremist or even Nazi.
Today we live the tiranny of the minority. The society accept this in reason of guilty, regret, fear of be labeled as prejudiced among other reasons.
Prejudice exist? Of course, and unfortunally it will exist for a long time, but this isn't a valid reason to start witch hunts at every comment biased interpreted.
Splitting the word, "pre" "judice", we see that the word among other meanings is interpret before know or understand an subject. Not every judice is a prejudice, and as being gay is a right, evaluate this sexual options is a right too.
To end i have to say that @Ward post was a bit agressive and incisive, and maybe a little poor develped in the idea he tried to spread , but in this point of "counter prejudice" as i explained above, i understand what he meant and i share his view.
Now back to the thread:
If we keep the original content can Team BG develop romances with the already existent characters? Cos in time when Team BG develop suffice characters to construct a full party, no one will want the outdated original characters.
The way I see it gay discrimination is like black discrimination and woman discrimination, it doesn't exist anymore
I can only assume that you had the Imprisonment spell casted on you and you are speaking only about the bubble deep beneath the earth that you occupy now. I'm glad you've routed out discrimination there, but back here on the surface, all three of those things are unfortunately alive and well.
Speaking of romances (I believe that's what this thread was about... originally lol), I wonder if any possible new romance has to be within a party NPC? Does anyone remember the girl from the werewolf island?
I'm not saying I'd like that one elaborated on, I think it was fine the way it is and I think changing it would ruin what it tried to accomplish. Though I do think that it wouldn't be a bad thing if you could have a new non-party NPC or two in the game that's possible to romance.
Speaking of romances (I believe that's what this thread was about... originally lol), I wonder if any possible new romance has to be within a party NPC? Does anyone remember the girl from the werewolf island?
I'm not saying I'd like that one elaborated on, I think it was fine the way it is and I think changing it would ruin what it tried to accomplish. Though I do think that it wouldn't be a bad thing if you could have a new non-party NPC or two in the game that's possible to romance.
I totally forgot about the Werewolf Island fling! I'd like more stuff like that too.
The Balduran Shipwrecked side quest was so weak that i don't remember much of it (i played this side quest only twice, after that i always skipped this quest).
however i remember the chick you're talking about, i never understand her, in my good game play i treated her well and she liked me, ok, but in my evil game play i just told her to f*** herself (pratically)... and she liked it too!!!
By the way it's a chick if your main char is a man and a guy if your main char is a woman (and maybe that's why my evil play happened that way. My evil female main char told the guy to f*** himself, but as always he's a man and has his priorities, so some offenses are not going to keep him from a nice female body ).
@RedGuard If you're talking about Delainy, theres a mod in the works for BG2 to make her a romancible NPC Been in progress for awhile now, but it still looks god to me: http://delainy.gibberlings3.net/
And I think the advantage that a NPC romance over a non-party character is that your NPCs are the ones you stay around the most. You're never frequently in contact with anyone in the game long enough to make any prolonged connection seem all that plausible. But perhaps a friendly face would give motivation to keep visiting a person?
however i remember the chick you're talking about, i never understand her, in my good game play i treated her well and she liked me, ok, but in my evil game play i just told her to f*** herself (pratically)... and she liked it too!!!
I haven't played through an evil playthrough with that quest so I wasn't aware of that. I'd have preferred her to react accordingly and attack you like everyone else. Though isn't her liking you dependent on if you did her fetch quest or not? Fetching some flowers (or was it berries?) doesn't seem like an evil character thing to do. lol
@CrazedSlayer I had not seen any mods related to her and since it's in progress I'll reserve judgement until it is, but I don't think she really needs changing. I think she should remain on the island with her people for you to escape.
I agree that there are advantages to having a NPC you're romancing in your party, but having one in an area you visit often or a romance that plays out through a quest or two would also be an interesting alternative. Though I don't think the plausibility of either the party or non-party option is significantly greater than the other, it all depends on the context of the romance itself.
The huge problem of the actual society is what i call "counter prejudice", i had to invent a term yes, as normally very few people want to touch this subject. Today we live the inverse of prejudice.
This man has it. It may not be true in all of the world I have no idea, but in the United States, this is RAMPANT. There is no such thing as a black man being racist; white people get called crackers left and right, some in jest and other times as genuine insults and we just take it.
The United States was once (unfairly, mind you) ruled by the church-going white male and now the white male is the weakest link. Now we all cower and sit around being dished out insults for the stupidity of our ancestors, and we just take it. It's pathetic, and there are so few people who realize what's really happening, it's kind of incredible. I have a very tough time describing it to a person of average or less intelligence, to be honest... because that's just been life for them, all their life.
We get all these inane requests from minorities, and we HAVE to heed that request, as fair or ridiculous as they may be. Why? Because we're white men; if we don't listen to the minority's every whim, we are automatically labelled intolerant; racist, sexist, homophobes, ageist. And no, the request doesn't have to have ANYTHING to do with race, gender, sexuality, or age. But if I tell, say, a Jew "no, I don't have the time to help you with _____" oh snap, we are racist. I'm not even kidding.
@Quartz Your comment is so general that is essentially meaningless. You make alot of claims without listing any concrete examples of anything that you are talking about... except making a crack about not being able to say no to jews.
I suspect that if this 'problem' was as rampant as you claim then you would have provided perhaps one example. But don' let that dent your persecution complex.
Could people please stop with the bullshit? It wasn't entertaining the first time someone said gays/blacks/women have it so good and the white man has it so bad and it hasn't got any better when repeated.
Any chance we can actually discuss new romances without descending into skewed political bullshit?
@Quartz As bad as you think white men have it, there are people who have it worse. Women, blacks, gays (and woe betide if you are all three at once!). Women still get treated as if our biology makes us incapable of rational thought, and if you dare lose your temper and get angry, even for valid reasons, men will still assume you're on the rag, running the red flag, or whatever your euphemism of choice is. There is still the "Madonna/Whore" complex at work in US Society (witness it when Sandra Fluke testified on behalf of getting health care to pay for birth control pills to help her friend's hormone problems and the way men accused her of being a whore who wanted to screw around on the taxpayer's dime. Yet, nobody has a problem with those same health care providers covering Viagra (used almost exclusively by men)). I'm not black or hispanic, but what's the most popular, well-known image of those two groups? Black Woman- Welfare Queen. Black man- Criminal who fathers children and doesn't support them. Hispanic- Wetback Illegal from Mexico taking jobs from Americans. A friend of mine had a black roommate. When my friend got a new computer, he asked his roommate to go with him to help carry the boxes home. My friend is a 6'4 white guy with long red hair, and beefy to boot. His roommate was a 6'2 weedy black guy with short hair. Guess which one of them got stopped by a cop on the way back on suspicion of stealing what was in the box? And I'm sure you already know the stereotypes that exist about gay people. Like the "Fact" that they are all pedophiles and will go after children to "seduce" them into the "Lifestyle".
Seriously, Dude?! White people, even white men, don't get half the shit other sorts of people do. You think you have it so bad? Dude, you don't even know how bad it can get. Now, I know that @Tanthalas is going to be coming back into this thread and is going to end up cutting my post (and yours as well, most probably). But you are not getting it now, you are simply achieving parity with others similar to the way that they have had it in the past.
I made the mistake of thinking I could speak a mature topic with you people, but in a world where people automatically assume you're being unfair even when you specifically rally against such treatment, it's hopeless. I'll shut up after this post, since it'll make you easily offended people happy for awhile.
@PhillipDaigle You always know what to say. But I said what is truth. Those things don't exist Phillip, not in any tangible way. What we have now is residue, which gets passed on to the next group of ignorant children. Nobody knows why they tease blacks for being black, or why being a women means you should be in the kitchen. They do it because they were taught it. I hate to bring up Nazi Germany, but did they teach children back then WHY Jews were evil? No, because they weren't.
@Kholdstare@Kamuizin Nothing I said was malicious. Maybe it's different in America or Europe, but in Australia nobody seems to care if you're gay and if you are, you're hailed as God for standing against the man and being yourself.
Hence my point, nobody has to hailed for being themselves, that isn't to be rewarded. Everybody is shot down and skinned, not because they're gay/black/women, but because people will find and use whatever they can to hurt you.
If you're a gay black woman, they'll use that against you. If you're none of those things, they'll find something else. You people speak as if you have to be a minority to be targeted. Minorities aren't targeted, people are. It happens to everyone.
@Wonko He isn't being general one iota. In Australia there were incidences on Indian students being attacked on the train line coming home from Universities. We were all racist for that.
These students were attacked because they were on the train past midnight, when bastards purposely look for people to hurt. These attacks weren't racially motivated, but now the Australian media is trying to appeal to Indians who were 'put off' coming here.
One attack was carried by Asians if I recall. So who's racist there, the Asians or the general white population? Australia is SO culturally diverse, who on EARTH do you say is racist?
@RedGuard I didn't say black people have it good and white people have it bad.
I went to a youth center once to hang out with people. When I got there, white kids wearing baggy pants and hoodies listening to Snoop Dogg talking about smoking weed and slapping bitches. That stuff comes from America, we adopted that. How can such an influential group be the 'put down' minority? This is just stereotypical garbage.
We worship ethnically diverse people, yet somehow, there's 'racism'. I don't get how that can work.
@RedGuard well we may as well try and have two conversations going at once. I don't mind.
If its any consolation to all this, I'm from Australia too, and I'm reading through all these comments and pritty much agreeing with where people are coming from. These are touchy subjects to discuss, because everyone in their own way is a victim to the qualities they've been born with. And because of that we've already got investment in the opinions being put forward by others, so its easy to feel personally attacked. I hope this thread doesnt get shut down, cause people so far have remained civil in communicating their point.
If this conversation continues it probably shouldn't do so in this thread.
People should be able to talk about topics such as this without a whole bunch of wowsers descending on the thread to have a cry about reverse discrimination. It's a common courtesy.
@WonKo I shouldn't talk here again, especially after I said I'd not, but you type without thinking. Nobody's having a cry about reverse discrimination. It exists, why is it not important? I didn't even bring it up.
@LadyRhian (gonna @ you too since you have a similar but 100x more convincing point than Wonko)
It's not a comparison of 'who has it worse'. That's a pointless argument. It's not about who has it worse, it's about who is getting heat at all. Everybody is now, always, forever, it's history and nature. There are far worse things going on in this world than 'discrimination'. There is real social manipulation, which may even have something to do with it.
I think it's a contradiction. Discrimination is a lifestyle/ideal targetting a victim. Reverse discrimination is seen as a victim attacking a lifestyle/ideal, so therefore it's okay. Both topics are permanently intertwined because both entail the same problem, we all live oppressed.
Reverse discrimination is a very poor choice of words anyway. We all stand on each other, regardless of creed/sex/ethic/orientation/way of life. Standing on each other isn't motivated by these things in nature, it's motivated by one group of people getting the better, then another group doing the same on the first.
The topic of 'reverse discrimination' isn't a way to take the importance away from 'minorities', that's a pathetic thought. No, both issues are one in the same.
I think pretty much everything has been said on the matter, and various very insightful comments already said what I'd have wanted to say and better than I could have. ( @Jalily, @LadyRhian, @AzL0n )
I just wanted to say that I think it's a very interesting and deep choice, that of the developers to make the monk bisexual (if it's really gonna be him). I know many monastic traditions of Faerun are connected to single deities (Ilmater for example, which by the way is the closest thing to a Jesus we have in the pantheon), and are about impersonating the god's principles. Now, there are also monastic traditions that don't have divine connections, but I find it a very good thing to propose a bisexual character in such a context, for various reasons: it recalls ancient traditions of humanity, it makes for a more original fantasy setting, and it slaps a bit in the face the modern (wrong in its very principles) association of religion/spirituality with heterosexuality.
@WonKo I'm going to go ahead and ignore all the ad hominem and reply to your actual point: I didn't want to make a good, realistic example because I was scared to. I was scared to make a good example because I feared people would get offended and be mad at me. It seems that either way I'm screwed however because you apparently think that me pointing out a legitimate happenstance means that I'm crying a river or something. As Ward says, it's not about who has it bad, or who has it worse, I'm saying that the hate is a vicious circle and NO ONE is above it.
Thank you @Ward for taking the words out of my mouth for @LadyRhian. I have nothing more to say, as everything I would've said you already have.
I'm done here, unless of course WonKo is going to throw more ad hominem at me.
@CrazedSlayer if you or anyone else is willing to carry on with the original conversation then I'll be more than happy to give my thoughts if I can think of anything relevant. As for the politics, I'm done.
Im hoping its Neera, lesbian romances are fun. Why? Because, you know I am one. Yes, women can love old school RPG and even lesbians can love Baldur's Gate. My girlfriend also played it back in the day.
@Ward & Co the world you live in must be glorious place :sarcasm:.
at first i was pissed off at your post but then i realized i wish you were right. i really wish i was just a whiny bitch demanding extra rights or easier life. unfortunately, real life claims you're wrong. and ignorant. i don't know where you come from but in my country i have to be damn careful not to touch my boyfriend openly in public (i'm talking about hug, holding hand, slight kiss etc. not dry humping) because i might get beaten, spat upon or worse. two months ago two lesbian women got beaten, one with serious head traumas, because they hugged in a tram and looked like lesbians. cases like this happen every year, despite our country being in the middle of europe and having (albeit poorly) regulated laws against discrimination (law for civil union pending for last 6 years). i wont give other examples, if you think world is such a kind and tolerant place, please use google to inform yourself further on the matter.
it seems you are tired of endless campaigns of equal rights, but unfortunately that is, and should be, your problem. and yes, IT IS our job/duty to be proud of our sexual identity, because it makes us visible and because it enables us the strenght to demand EQUAL rights. silent, passive people do not make changes in political landscape. besides, straight people do have their parade, and it's called everyday life (public displays of affection, institution of marriage and its legal benefits and million other small things that assume you are straight). so yes, those would be some of the causes of large amount of bitching (as you accurately noticed), because heterosexuality is default asumption for everyone and you have to say it it not. just like you have to say thet demand for non-straight NPCs in a game exists (and show it), otherwise it will not be implemented. and that principle goes for every other right you can imagine.
i'm not saying reverse or "counter" discrimination does not exist, but that does not immediately give you right to dismiss the entire groups of minorities. in EVERY walk of life there are obnoxious and idiotic people who think they are better than everyone else, right?
in the end, i don't think your every word is completely without merit (and i mean that only if you would suffer in social environment for expressing unfavorable opinion for minority without actual call for violence or opression), but right now i find it hard to sypathize with you, since i can feel the discrimination in my everyday life. society itself choose that being LGBTIQ is a big issue in the first place, counter- measureas came later.
OT- repeat: yay for the new romances. i will replay the game to experience every option, but i'm loking to gay option the most, since i love the ability to identify myself with avatar if possible.
I agree that there are advantages to having a NPC you're romancing in your party, but having one in an area you visit often or a romance that plays out through a quest or two would also be an interesting alternative. Though I don't think the plausibility of either the party or non-party option is significantly greater than the other, it all depends on the context of the romance itself.
Well I'll point out two RPG's that deal with it this way: Fable and Dragons' Dogma. Both of these struggle to give weight to the importance of the relationship because it isnt something thats being developed progressively and incorporated meaningfully into your day-to-day experiences. Its a location-specific feature that you would incorporate into your routine and wouldn't throw many surprises at you. It would be different if places in BG changed over time, like if its someone you meet in Trademeet during Chapter 3 and then the town has new troubles during Chapter 6. There's a Romantic Encounters mod and an Assassinations mod that both treat romance in much this same way. Usually the character would be the source of a quest, and upon completion of said quest would give you get more options and that would be it. Things like this are really limited in the scale they can offer, cause no one really follows you throughout the main questline apart from your NPCs.
@CrazedSlayer I recall the original Fable for the Xbox. From what I recall I don't think it's the NPC being location specific that makes it less meaningful, but more that most (if not all) of the romance options in that game are not fleshed out characters. I think you can have a location specific NPC (or quest specific) that has a fleshed out romance and personality and be as interesting to the player as say Viconia, Jaheira or Aerie who are in your party day to day. I'll admit it would probably have to be played out differently and possibly not as dragged out as say the original romances, but it could work.
I'm not sure about having them needing to be somewhere that has some form of trouble or quest to attract the player back again and again. I think if you picked one of the main hubs areas of the game then the player will naturally be passing through multiple times (likely to get supplies from the local merchants). Besides if the character and romance are interesting then the player will likely visit to interact with them and not for some other incentive.
I can't speak of Dragon's Dogma. I had that game and sold it. I just couldn't get into it. The world felt a bit empty and I didn't really feel compelled to carry on with the game.
I also haven't tried those mods so I can't really comment on them either. Though I realise that a quest related romance could be shorter or played out more quickly than a party based romance, but it need not be any less interesting or satisfying. I don't think the party romances are particularly open ended either, they have a fairly linear path themselves and the love talks are usually padded out over time, but they are not terribly long either (it's possible to play out a romance long before you reach the end stages of a game).
Comments
Not to get super off-topic or anything but...
Straight people aren't getting disowned by their families or getting fired from their jobs simply by being straight. We still live in a society where people are looked down upon for simply being a minority.
Things like gay pride are around because it's telling people who have been told that they're a freak or an abomination that no, you don't have to be ashamed of yourself and there's nothing wrong with you.
ANYWAYS...
Who would you rather be the m/m option? Rasaad or Dorn?
The way I see it gay discrimination is like black discrimination and woman discrimination, it doesn't exist anymore but people keep fueling it so it gets passed down to new people who don't even know or care what the point of it is, it's just a bandwagon type thing.
I'd rather it be Rasaard because I'd never use a monk and if Dorn is tough like he looks then I don't want the main backup to be hitting on me.
Just sayin'...
( Planescape Torment )
Today in 2012, the level of prejudice isn't the same of 20 or 30 years ago. Society accept each time more behaviors and options that were once stigmatized.
The huge problem of the actual society is what i call "counter prejudice", i had to invent a term yes, as normally very few people want to touch this subject. Today we live the inverse of prejudice.
A black person can walk on the street with a shirt 100% black, try to use a 100% white and see how people will look at you (in Brazil, where racism is a crime, you would be literally fucked). We have gay parades as @Ward said, but make an hetero parade and people will call you fascist, extremist or even Nazi.
Today we live the tiranny of the minority. The society accept this in reason of guilty, regret, fear of be labeled as prejudiced among other reasons.
Prejudice exist? Of course, and unfortunally it will exist for a long time, but this isn't a valid reason to start witch hunts at every comment biased interpreted.
Splitting the word, "pre" "judice", we see that the word among other meanings is interpret before know or understand an subject. Not every judice is a prejudice, and as being gay is a right, evaluate this sexual options is a right too.
To end i have to say that @Ward post was a bit agressive and incisive, and maybe a little poor develped in the idea he tried to spread , but in this point of "counter prejudice" as i explained above, i understand what he meant and i share his view.
Now back to the thread:
If we keep the original content can Team BG develop romances with the already existent characters? Cos in time when Team BG develop suffice characters to construct a full party, no one will want the outdated original characters.
I'm not saying I'd like that one elaborated on, I think it was fine the way it is and I think changing it would ruin what it tried to accomplish. Though I do think that it wouldn't be a bad thing if you could have a new non-party NPC or two in the game that's possible to romance.
however i remember the chick you're talking about, i never understand her, in my good game play i treated her well and she liked me, ok, but in my evil game play i just told her to f*** herself (pratically)... and she liked it too!!!
By the way it's a chick if your main char is a man and a guy if your main char is a woman (and maybe that's why my evil play happened that way. My evil female main char told the guy to f*** himself, but as always he's a man and has his priorities, so some offenses are not going to keep him from a nice female body
And I think the advantage that a NPC romance over a non-party character is that your NPCs are the ones you stay around the most. You're never frequently in contact with anyone in the game long enough to make any prolonged connection seem all that plausible. But perhaps a friendly face would give motivation to keep visiting a person?
@CrazedSlayer I had not seen any mods related to her and since it's in progress I'll reserve judgement until it is, but I don't think she really needs changing. I think she should remain on the island with her people for you to escape.
I agree that there are advantages to having a NPC you're romancing in your party, but having one in an area you visit often or a romance that plays out through a quest or two would also be an interesting alternative. Though I don't think the plausibility of either the party or non-party option is significantly greater than the other, it all depends on the context of the romance itself.
The United States was once (unfairly, mind you) ruled by the church-going white male and now the white male is the weakest link. Now we all cower and sit around being dished out insults for the stupidity of our ancestors, and we just take it. It's pathetic, and there are so few people who realize what's really happening, it's kind of incredible. I have a very tough time describing it to a person of average or less intelligence, to be honest... because that's just been life for them, all their life.
We get all these inane requests from minorities, and we HAVE to heed that request, as fair or ridiculous as they may be. Why? Because we're white men; if we don't listen to the minority's every whim, we are automatically labelled intolerant; racist, sexist, homophobes, ageist. And no, the request doesn't have to have ANYTHING to do with race, gender, sexuality, or age. But if I tell, say, a Jew "no, I don't have the time to help you with _____" oh snap, we are racist. I'm not even kidding.
I suspect that if this 'problem' was as rampant as you claim then you would have provided perhaps one example. But don' let that dent your persecution complex.
Any chance we can actually discuss new romances without descending into skewed political bullshit?
Seriously, Dude?! White people, even white men, don't get half the shit other sorts of people do. You think you have it so bad? Dude, you don't even know how bad it can get. Now, I know that @Tanthalas is going to be coming back into this thread and is going to end up cutting my post (and yours as well, most probably). But you are not getting it now, you are simply achieving parity with others similar to the way that they have had it in the past.
@PhillipDaigle You always know what to say. But I said what is truth. Those things don't exist Phillip, not in any tangible way. What we have now is residue, which gets passed on to the next group of ignorant children. Nobody knows why they tease blacks for being black, or why being a women means you should be in the kitchen. They do it because they were taught it. I hate to bring up Nazi Germany, but did they teach children back then WHY Jews were evil? No, because they weren't.
@Kholdstare @Kamuizin Nothing I said was malicious. Maybe it's different in America or Europe, but in Australia nobody seems to care if you're gay and if you are, you're hailed as God for standing against the man and being yourself.
Hence my point, nobody has to hailed for being themselves, that isn't to be rewarded. Everybody is shot down and skinned, not because they're gay/black/women, but because people will find and use whatever they can to hurt you.
If you're a gay black woman, they'll use that against you. If you're none of those things, they'll find something else. You people speak as if you have to be a minority to be targeted. Minorities aren't targeted, people are. It happens to everyone.
@Wonko He isn't being general one iota. In Australia there were incidences on Indian students being attacked on the train line coming home from Universities. We were all racist for that.
These students were attacked because they were on the train past midnight, when bastards purposely look for people to hurt. These attacks weren't racially motivated, but now the Australian media is trying to appeal to Indians who were 'put off' coming here.
One attack was carried by Asians if I recall. So who's racist there, the Asians or the general white population? Australia is SO culturally diverse, who on EARTH do you say is racist?
@RedGuard I didn't say black people have it good and white people have it bad.
I went to a youth center once to hang out with people. When I got there, white kids wearing baggy pants and hoodies listening to Snoop Dogg talking about smoking weed and slapping bitches. That stuff comes from America, we adopted that. How can such an influential group be the 'put down' minority? This is just stereotypical garbage.
We worship ethnically diverse people, yet somehow, there's 'racism'. I don't get how that can work.
If its any consolation to all this, I'm from Australia too, and I'm reading through all these comments and pritty much agreeing with where people are coming from. These are touchy subjects to discuss, because everyone in their own way is a victim to the qualities they've been born with. And because of that we've already got investment in the opinions being put forward by others, so its easy to feel personally attacked. I hope this thread doesnt get shut down, cause people so far have remained civil in communicating their point.
People should be able to talk about topics such as this without a whole bunch of wowsers descending on the thread to have a cry about reverse discrimination. It's a common courtesy.
@LadyRhian (gonna @ you too since you have a similar but 100x more convincing point than Wonko)
It's not a comparison of 'who has it worse'. That's a pointless argument. It's not about who has it worse, it's about who is getting heat at all. Everybody is now, always, forever, it's history and nature. There are far worse things going on in this world than 'discrimination'. There is real social manipulation, which may even have something to do with it.
I think it's a contradiction. Discrimination is a lifestyle/ideal targetting a victim. Reverse discrimination is seen as a victim attacking a lifestyle/ideal, so therefore it's okay. Both topics are permanently intertwined because both entail the same problem, we all live oppressed.
Reverse discrimination is a very poor choice of words anyway. We all stand on each other, regardless of creed/sex/ethic/orientation/way of life. Standing on each other isn't motivated by these things in nature, it's motivated by one group of people getting the better, then another group doing the same on the first.
The topic of 'reverse discrimination' isn't a way to take the importance away from 'minorities', that's a pathetic thought. No, both issues are one in the same.
I just wanted to say that I think it's a very interesting and deep choice, that of the developers to make the monk bisexual (if it's really gonna be him). I know many monastic traditions of Faerun are connected to single deities (Ilmater for example, which by the way is the closest thing to a Jesus we have in the pantheon), and are about impersonating the god's principles.
Now, there are also monastic traditions that don't have divine connections, but I find it a very good thing to propose a bisexual character in such a context, for various reasons: it recalls ancient traditions of humanity, it makes for a more original fantasy setting, and it slaps a bit in the face the modern (wrong in its very principles) association of religion/spirituality with heterosexuality.
Thank you @Ward for taking the words out of my mouth for @LadyRhian. I have nothing more to say, as everything I would've said you already have.
I'm done here, unless of course WonKo is going to throw more ad hominem at me.
the world you live in must be glorious place :sarcasm:.
at first i was pissed off at your post but then i realized i wish you were right. i really wish i was just a whiny bitch demanding extra rights or easier life. unfortunately, real life claims you're wrong. and ignorant.
i don't know where you come from but in my country i have to be damn careful not to touch my boyfriend openly in public (i'm talking about hug, holding hand, slight kiss etc. not dry humping) because i might get beaten, spat upon or worse. two months ago two lesbian women got beaten, one with serious head traumas, because they hugged in a tram and looked like lesbians. cases like this happen every year, despite our country being in the middle of europe and having (albeit poorly) regulated laws against discrimination (law for civil union pending for last 6 years). i wont give other examples, if you think world is such a kind and tolerant place, please use google to inform yourself further on the matter.
it seems you are tired of endless campaigns of equal rights, but unfortunately that is, and should be, your problem. and yes, IT IS our job/duty to be proud of our sexual identity, because it makes us visible and because it enables us the strenght to demand EQUAL rights. silent, passive people do not make changes in political landscape. besides, straight people do have their parade, and it's called everyday life (public displays of affection, institution of marriage and its legal benefits and million other small things that assume you are straight).
so yes, those would be some of the causes of large amount of bitching (as you accurately noticed), because heterosexuality is default asumption for everyone and you have to say it it not. just like you have to say thet demand for non-straight NPCs in a game exists (and show it), otherwise it will not be implemented. and that principle goes for every other right you can imagine.
i'm not saying reverse or "counter" discrimination does not exist, but that does not immediately give you right to dismiss the entire groups of minorities. in EVERY walk of life there are obnoxious and idiotic people who think they are better than everyone else, right?
in the end, i don't think your every word is completely without merit (and i mean that only if you would suffer in social environment for expressing unfavorable opinion for minority without actual call for violence or opression), but right now i find it hard to sypathize with you, since i can feel the discrimination in my everyday life. society itself choose that being LGBTIQ is a big issue in the first place, counter- measureas came later.
OT- repeat: yay for the new romances. i will replay the game to experience every option, but i'm loking to gay option the most, since i love the ability to identify myself with avatar if possible.
There's a Romantic Encounters mod and an Assassinations mod that both treat romance in much this same way. Usually the character would be the source of a quest, and upon completion of said quest would give you get more options and that would be it. Things like this are really limited in the scale they can offer, cause no one really follows you throughout the main questline apart from your NPCs.
I'm not sure about having them needing to be somewhere that has some form of trouble or quest to attract the player back again and again. I think if you picked one of the main hubs areas of the game then the player will naturally be passing through multiple times (likely to get supplies from the local merchants). Besides if the character and romance are interesting then the player will likely visit to interact with them and not for some other incentive.
I can't speak of Dragon's Dogma. I had that game and sold it. I just couldn't get into it. The world felt a bit empty and I didn't really feel compelled to carry on with the game.
I also haven't tried those mods so I can't really comment on them either. Though I realise that a quest related romance could be shorter or played out more quickly than a party based romance, but it need not be any less interesting or satisfying. I don't think the party romances are particularly open ended either, they have a fairly linear path themselves and the love talks are usually padded out over time, but they are not terribly long either (it's possible to play out a romance long before you reach the end stages of a game).