What is Conan's class and stats (the Howard/Busiek et al. character)?
Ygramul
Member Posts: 1,059
... and before you can say "Barbarian. Duh!", consider all this:
- He 'duals' into 'Thief' early in his career.
- Later gains 'prestige classes' as a... err... 'Champion' [leadership bonuses, though not healing spells, as well as some mystical immunities, which probably approximates a non-spell casting Paladin].
- He is not a typical 'good-guy' but his word is his bond (though he is not bound by laws of the land); he attempts to protect those that ask for it (especially 'damsels', but also those linked by a battle-bond)
- He is superbly intelligent in the tactics & tricks that he employs; also has the wisdom to discern his path
- He successfully battles Wizards
- His minds is impervious when in 'rage' (e.g. 'God in the Bowl' etc.)
I'd say, he should be:
Berserker 6 / Thief 5 / Pirate 4 [Skald-like thief kit] / 'Champion' 10 [imaginary paladin kit]
Neutral Good
18-75/16/18/14/14/17
(e.g. his dex is high, but not as high as, say Janissa)
with a scattering of special abilities corresponding mental save bonuses etc.
Anyone else wanna give a shot at this?
- He 'duals' into 'Thief' early in his career.
- Later gains 'prestige classes' as a... err... 'Champion' [leadership bonuses, though not healing spells, as well as some mystical immunities, which probably approximates a non-spell casting Paladin].
- He is not a typical 'good-guy' but his word is his bond (though he is not bound by laws of the land); he attempts to protect those that ask for it (especially 'damsels', but also those linked by a battle-bond)
- He is superbly intelligent in the tactics & tricks that he employs; also has the wisdom to discern his path
- He successfully battles Wizards
- His minds is impervious when in 'rage' (e.g. 'God in the Bowl' etc.)
I'd say, he should be:
Berserker 6 / Thief 5 / Pirate 4 [Skald-like thief kit] / 'Champion' 10 [imaginary paladin kit]
Neutral Good
18-75/16/18/14/14/17
(e.g. his dex is high, but not as high as, say Janissa)
with a scattering of special abilities corresponding mental save bonuses etc.
Anyone else wanna give a shot at this?
Post edited by Ygramul on
6
Comments
Definitely a barbarian with a tint of thief
I agree with most of your ability scores, but I actually would say he is an 18 intelligence to be honest. He speaks AND writes/reads about 10 different languages with minimal practice.
Overall I'd say he is a powergamer's dream
Other things are more...professions, he was the scourge of the southern seas, along with the Queen of The Black Coast, he was leader of a Kozaki clan, he was officer and/or general in several armies, King of Aquilonia and much more but he always behaved and fought like a barbarian and no more.
if I have to think of Conan in AD&D way (I haven't read that paperback so I don't know which stats they gave him, even if because Conan isn't a character born in D&D I would never consider that standardization as canon anyway) I would give him these stats:
Class: Multiclass Barbarian/Thief
(I'll not set levels, he's simply too much in the end)Alignment: Chaotic Good
- he has a strong inclination to the chaotic side, he is wild and selfish, he likes earthly and mundane pleasures, he is greedy and without mercy for his enemies, he doesn't have qualms to betray or to turn his back to who disappoint him or to who betrays his own beliefs but he has a sincere heart, he never lies and despite being not civilized (in the way the civilized reigns consider civilization) he has his own beliefs and moral code, always aiding the helpless and the most weak ones, especially young and pretty ladies (!).He never betrays an ally or a friend, he fights to the end for something in which believes and he totally enrages against injustice and every behavior against freedom as he has no bounds, his home is the world itself but Cimmeria will always have a special place in his hearth and he speaks about his roots with pride.
His complete different beliefs compared to civilized peoples and his strong and wild willpower grants him a strong protection against mind control spells.
These are Conan's main traits for me, as a Howard fan.
@Troodon80 maybe you know why that table is so far below from the first part the post? Have I compiled the html in a wrong way?
Also it looks like I'm unable to add borders to that table...
EDIT: Thanks to @Troodon80 for his HTML knowledge!
Conan, the Cimmerian
Human
Chaotic Neutral
Fighter - Lv. 5
Strength - 18/90
Dexterity - 15
Constitution - 18
Intelligence - 7
Wisdom - 8
Charisma - 14
I didn't liked Conan the Destroyer, so it's not considered here. And of course that the Conan from the comics should be very different, but this is based solely in the first Conan the Barbarian, from 1982. I don't consider him a Thief in class. His profession once was of a thief, but this doesn't means much. Subotai, sure, was a Thief, and Valeria was a Thief/Fighter. But Conan? Pure Fighter for sure.
Anyway, have you read Conan Books by Howard? I think that to base the description of that character solely by the movies is really limiting: in Howard's books (the origin of Conan as a character) you'll see Conan acting like a thief and a marauder many times, also he has many of the features the Barbarian D&D class has.
Yes, Barbarian is a Fighter kit, but if you analyze Conan in deep you'll see that even if he masters many martial arts and he had a military training, he mainly fights in a wild and brutal way, he is feral and bestial in combat he doesn't follow any peculiar discipline other than his own instinct, he rages and fights more than often with light armor or no armor at all. The few times he wears an armor he generally take it off because he doesn't feel completely free and he prefers to fight without shells that might limit him, relying only on his own strength, instinct and ability as a combatant.
(mind that I'm not criticizing you, you're free to consider Conan as a pure Fighter, mine is a calm confrontation with you
EDIT: typo
But, well... Feel free to criticize as you will. A forum is for this, isn't it? Discussions
Both the films saw fit to give Conan an obligatory tragic background. In the books he left his home to go on a raid.
The character as per Howard/Busiek (thanks @booinyoureyes for setting me straight there) is much more deep and intelligent.
@Metalloman - I really like your descriptions. I was reluctant to give him to high scores, but let's face it, he *is* exceptional.
Perhaps, "Cimmerian" should be viewed as a subrace of humans with exceptional scores...
As @Ygramul pointed, he *is* exceptional, he really is one of a kind, unique, a step above all in the world he lives in.
About the first movie Conan the Barbarian (absolutely not the reboot), I can say that even that it is a mix of all Conan's adventures - F.I. Valeria exists in the original novels, but she is a completely different character compared to the one in the movie; the movie Valeria has, instead, many features of another female character from the novels: Belit, the Queen of The Black Coast, she in fact returns from the death to protect Conan after a love promise, like Valeria in that movie, even if under different circumstances - I really loved that movie: it sums up the very core of what Howard meant, and the atmosphere of those books.
Even if I prefer the novels over all, for me that movie is a must and after all these years still I cry when Subotai, replying to Akiro, the Wizard, asking why he was crying:
He is Conan, the Cimmerian. He won't cry. So I cry for him.
I know you've a different opinion but you're free to post here your personal vision of Conan, if you want.
Also, in a world where individuals are governed by fair "rolls" (say, roll 4xd6 and keep best 3xd6), stats like what I posted originally (18-75/16/18/14/14/17) would be truly exceptional. Possibly better than a millionth of the random population.
Maybe that's because Conan is one of my preferred characters, or maybe simply because my way to connect D&D stats with his characteristics was suggesting me to assign these values, anyway if the notes in that table are not enough as explanation I can give more.
STR: 18/98
CON: 17
DEX: 18
INT: 17
WIS: 14
CHA: 19
His physical stats have been well discussed. And I agree that he is exceptionally clever and adaptable, however, he is at times superstitious (is main flaw) which is why I think 14 is okay, perhaps a bit strict.
CHA is his most exceptional stat, he can make armies follow him and people are forced to respect him and he can charm any woman.
I also agree on Neutral Good, he follows the laws he was taught in Cimmeria pretty closely, but he is not bound by them. He never hurts people for no reason or simply out of malice, and he cares for those he trusts. Being cynical does not equal neutral in my mind.
He know that a blade can kill them, and if the blade is useless then fire and silver will do so, even if he fears the demons (as the civilized cultures do) he is completely aware that he can fight them and kill them, and this awareness gives him a clear advantage respect to men of other cultures and against demons, giving him more tools to survive against that kind of menace.
So, how could I give him less than 16? ;P
He's young, but he is a survival expert, a weapon master and expert combatant, a strategist, a ship captain, a politics expert, he has a deep knowledge of his world lore, cultures and environments, he gained lots of experience in his long travels, being a pirate, a thief, a mercenary, leader in many clans and officer in many armies and many other things.
I've already told this: he's simply too much powerful both in mind and body to give him low/mid stats.
Conan would have made a nice Witcher-like protagonist. It's fascinating that there never have been any good games with him.
critical moments.The ultimate cheese and butter dream build.
My choice of multi classes would be barbarian,kensai,thief.
As a huge conan's novel fan, I believe @Metalloman described him perfectly!!!!
No Druid / Ranger / Barbarian class for you Mr. Conan!