Hi there folks, long time BG/BG2 fan here. The announcement of BG3 has sucked me back in with all the classic BG gaming stuff.
I remember waaaay back when the IR mod was first started, it was having lots of issues and compatibility problems. I've always wanted to see what was in the IR mod though, and I'm about to buy the BG/BG2 EE versions to see what all has changed over the decades.
I would love to go on a big epic adventure with Imoen in a BG Trilogy setup and lots of the big mods (and slower level progression so we don't get too overpowered too quickly), but I don't even know where to begin these days. The main focal point will be getting this IR mod compatible with as much as I can pack in (and as many story mods as can be compatible with each other).
Where do I even get started? Is there a Readme or instructional page somewhere I should read?
Any help is appreciated.
Hi there!
The mod comes with a readme that was fairly straightforward for me so I can't offer much on that. There's been lots of improvements over the years but IR is still known for being cranky when it comes to mod compatibility, especially with EET. The latest versions of IR and Ascension now seem to play nice with each other so that might have fixed some of the bigger complaints about incompatibility.
I personally don't suggest you use a 'megamod' setup with IR, but that's just as much because I value a stable if lightweight setup over one that is bloated and likely prone to errors. But no matter what you choose to do you should save IR as one of if not THE last mod to install. It does a lot to Imoen throughout SoA and ToB, in ways that can easily have ripple effects if it clashes with another mod or just doesn't install properly.
Is there a system to expedite installation of different mods together? I remember the old BaiDU (or something like that) system that would allow more rapid installation and intercompatibility of mods that was used by the old BGT project, but now a quick search brings up so many mods that I would hope there's an even faster way now.
1) Imoen friendship
2) Imoen “retrospection” dialogue from IEP extended banters
3) Ascension Improved Imoen-player interactions in dialogue
What exactly is the problem? I installed all these three components and there were no bugs, except for the problem with Ascension, but it was already solved in the latest versions of these mods.
This is one example why it is best to give as detailed reasons for such "recommendations" as possible: for which mod version? What exactly is the problem?
Nothing lasts longer than rumors about bugs and incompatibilies in certain mods.
1) Imoen friendship
2) Imoen “retrospection” dialogue from IEP extended banters
3) Ascension Improved Imoen-player interactions in dialogue
I can understand that the Imoen Friendship would have conflicting timing / talks / story immersion aspects.
It seems there's disagreement about the other two though. Anyone higher up the mod development willing to chime in? Mod versions that are confirmed to have / not have problems?
the imoen friendship is due to it and the romance having the same overlapping talk in tob that causes issues.
the iep one causes a stutter.
In order to eliminate the problem, it is necessary to understand where and under what conditions it arises. Where exactly was a stutter and with what versions appeared? I used the latest version of IR, IEP v5.5 and Imoen Friendship v3.4. And completed the game without any problems. The only time a stutter appeared in the game was after the death of Yaga-Shura and it was cured after making changes to the Ascension files (files of other mods did not change, but the problem disappeared after that - that means the reason was not in them).
tob bhaalspawn talks are not timed now, is this changed to be compatible with Ascension?
also I remember last time I played (newest version) in tob some dialogues didn't fire properly, like when you finish one of the solar talks and Imoen asks what's going on, sometimes she didn't initialize and then she asks this at somewhere else. sorry I can't remember exactly.
and the 2 times when charname can spend some time in the inns, the music is missing , and there's no rest, just talks.
Just beginning another playthrough testing of ToB.
the tob bhaalspawn talk isn't really changed (on this mods end) with Ascension, Ascension has made changes to be compatible with this mod.
I rested at the saradush inn and get all the dialogues + music.
Just beginning another playthrough testing of ToB.
the tob bhaalspawn talk isn't really changed (on this mods end) with Ascension, Ascension has made changes to be compatible with this mod.
I rested at the saradush inn and get all the dialogues + music.
maybe I remembered wrong. did you get the rest though? I didn't, and after the scene a PID automatically triggered.
but I'm pretty sure those bhaalspawn talks are again banters that can be triggered by ctrl-I and not on timers
also in my last playthrough after defeating sendai and the solar talk, the dialogue about what happened didn't fire, instead when I enter the area before meeting Abazigal that dialogue fired after the comment about the lair.
The Saradush inn i got the rest (fadeout screen).
Its not easy to trigger the bhaalspawn talks with ctr-i, because their gated (behind if yaga/gromnir are dead and timers) you can potentially do it in a rare case if ctr-i after the timers are expired, simply because the bhaal talk is part of the banter file which ctr-i will trigger.
The Saradush inn i got the rest (fadeout screen).
Its not easy to trigger the bhaalspawn talks with ctr-i, because their gated (behind if yaga/gromnir are dead and timers) you can potentially do it in a rare case if ctr-i after the timers are expired, simply because the bhaal talk is part of the banter file which ctr-i will trigger.
I havent retested the sendai solar talk yet.
I mean in past versions the bhaalspawn talks will always fire immediately after those timers expired, I don't have to worry about them, but now they're just like other banters and if I don't want to let characters stand idle for hours I have to ctrl-I (assume I already passed those events). I don't know which behavior is desired?
Hmm looking at the code more carefully this is how it works.
There is a 'forced' banter talk triggered after the timer runs down IRTBhaalTalkTimer, set once immediately start of TOB, once after Gromnir and once after Yaga are killed.
So there are 3 'forced banters' done by the mod through the timers.
The first talk can in fact trigger at any time, either from the engine itself (random banter) or the timer.
The second talk is gated till after Gromnir dies.
the third talk is gated to after Yaga dies.
So you can ctr-i to force the first talk at any time, you can ctr-i to force the 2nd talk any time after gromnir dies. the same for after yaga dies.
The original purpose of the code was to 'make sure' you get these talks, as a last resort the timers will force a banter so you get it. But you could get it if your lucky from the normal random banter (or you ctr-i).
Hmm looking at the code more carefully this is how it works.
There is a 'forced' banter talk triggered after the timer runs down IRTBhaalTalkTimer, set once immediately start of TOB, once after Gromnir and once after Yaga are killed.
So there are 3 'forced banters' done by the mod through the timers.
The first talk can in fact trigger at any time, either from the engine itself (random banter) or the timer.
The second talk is gated till after Gromnir dies.
the third talk is gated to after Yaga dies.
So you can ctr-i to force the first talk at any time, you can ctr-i to force the 2nd talk any time after gromnir dies. the same for after yaga dies.
The original purpose of the code was to 'make sure' you get these talks, as a last resort the timers will force a banter so you get it. But you could get it if your lucky from the normal random banter (or you ctr-i).
I know that's how it's supposed to work, what I wanted to say is that this no longer works at least for me. In my last playthrough I forgot about it, so I didn't get any of them, until I remember it maybe before Abazigal and ctrl-i to finally get them.
I didn't use Ascension, and other setup are same as my previous playthroughs, the only change is the version of this mod.
in SOA I did the gong quest (but didn't return it, planned to do it later) before heading to Spellhold. After the first lovetalk there, Imoen said her single dialogue which should be triggered when you trade the wand for the gong. I checked the scripts, it only checks PartyHasItem("misc6b"). it's a really rare situation but I found it hilarious.
edit: I must say I know little about modding and weidu, but I looked Setup-ImoenRomance.tp2, the command says
ACTION_IF NOT MOD_IS_INSTALLED "Ascension.tp2" 30 BEGIN
PRINT @551
COMPILE ~imoenRomance/scripts/TOB/BhaalTalks/IMOE25LegacyTaintTalk.baf~
maybe it should be EXTEND_BOTTOM to something? IMOE25LegacyTaintTalk.baf doesn't specify who should be the one to
Hey, I am not quite sure if this is the right place to ask, but I could not find a better discussion in this forum.
Is there, except for the general install order for the usual "non-weidu mods -> story mods -> NPC mods -> etc.", a load order to be considered? Especially w.r.t. Sirene, Isra and DeArnise Romance?
I am asking, because I installed them in a "BG 2 - EE" installation with Project Infinity as
"Sirene -> deArnise -> Isra -> ImoenRomance"
and when opening IMOEN2.bcs with Near Infinity there are some very suspect lines as can be seen below.
The line that bothers me so is
"GlobalGT("Chapter","GLOBAL",109718)"
which I would interpret as a "If the Chapter Global variable is greater than 109718" which seems like it will never be satisfied. It is not the only line like this, there are several occurences in a couple of *.bcs files (not restricted to the Imoen-part of the game).
I should add that I have not installed "Imoen friendship", "Imoen “retrospection” dialogue from IEP extended banters" or "Ascension Improved Imoen-player interactions in dialogue".
And I you can find the complete mod-installation order below.
I hope that are all the information you need.
Thank you for taking your time to help me, it is much appreciated.
strange you would get that value.
What happens is that the variable for chapter is different for a type of mod called 'eet' which combines vanilla, bg2 and tob into one game so the value for a chapter is different (roughly increment by 12)
Hey @elyon,
first of all, thank you for your quick answer!
Searching the problem at project infinity would be the last thing on my list, since (at least as far as I know) it is only a environment to install the mods in a given sequence and should not interfere with the content.
I guess I will have to play around with mod selection/order and I will post here again once I have some more information and hopefully a feasible hypothesis why these strange values appeared.
One more question though. With what editor did you open the *.tp2 ? I am quite new in this modding-thing.
Thank you, I will try that.
As for the experiments, I have narrowed the problem down to the installation of Imoen and the Rjali-mod.
Unreasonable values appear as soon as both are installed and since this is the recommended install order (Rjali has to manipulate some of the Imoen files) It seems to me that the problem lies with the Rjali-mod, though it is explicitly stated that it is compatible with Imoen, so I guess I have to go and pester them now.
Sorry for wasting your time.
One final update, sorry for the spam.
I feel really stupid now. I was able to retrace the problem to version incompatibility.
Rjali is compatible (according to its readme) with Imoen V 3.9.6. and (since the Imoen Readme was saying so) I believed to have exactly that version.
Turns out I was using V 3.9.7. which I found out by opening the tp2 (thank you @elyon for the tip to simply use notepad).
Finally Imoen V3.9.9. (the lastest while I write this comment) does not produce such unreasonable values.
Sorry im not sure i can help, it looks like an error with iconv with installing on some linux/unix machine but i cant test that, it works on mine being windows.
Looking around this is an error that crops up with some mods and iconv on linux.
Some people are successfully installed it on mac, perhaps they can help.
Comments
Hi there!
The mod comes with a readme that was fairly straightforward for me so I can't offer much on that. There's been lots of improvements over the years but IR is still known for being cranky when it comes to mod compatibility, especially with EET. The latest versions of IR and Ascension now seem to play nice with each other so that might have fixed some of the bigger complaints about incompatibility.
I personally don't suggest you use a 'megamod' setup with IR, but that's just as much because I value a stable if lightweight setup over one that is bloated and likely prone to errors. But no matter what you choose to do you should save IR as one of if not THE last mod to install. It does a lot to Imoen throughout SoA and ToB, in ways that can easily have ripple effects if it clashes with another mod or just doesn't install properly.
Is there a system to expedite installation of different mods together? I remember the old BaiDU (or something like that) system that would allow more rapid installation and intercompatibility of mods that was used by the old BGT project, but now a quick search brings up so many mods that I would hope there's an even faster way now.
What exactly is the problem? I installed all these three components and there were no bugs, except for the problem with Ascension, but it was already solved in the latest versions of these mods.
Nothing lasts longer than rumors about bugs and incompatibilies in certain mods.
the iep one causes a stutter.
I can understand that the Imoen Friendship would have conflicting timing / talks / story immersion aspects.
It seems there's disagreement about the other two though. Anyone higher up the mod development willing to chime in? Mod versions that are confirmed to have / not have problems?
In order to eliminate the problem, it is necessary to understand where and under what conditions it arises. Where exactly was a stutter and with what versions appeared? I used the latest version of IR, IEP v5.5 and Imoen Friendship v3.4. And completed the game without any problems. The only time a stutter appeared in the game was after the death of Yaga-Shura and it was cured after making changes to the Ascension files (files of other mods did not change, but the problem disappeared after that - that means the reason was not in them).
also I remember last time I played (newest version) in tob some dialogues didn't fire properly, like when you finish one of the solar talks and Imoen asks what's going on, sometimes she didn't initialize and then she asks this at somewhere else. sorry I can't remember exactly.
and the 2 times when charname can spend some time in the inns, the music is missing , and there's no rest, just talks.
the tob bhaalspawn talk isn't really changed (on this mods end) with Ascension, Ascension has made changes to be compatible with this mod.
I rested at the saradush inn and get all the dialogues + music.
maybe I remembered wrong. did you get the rest though? I didn't, and after the scene a PID automatically triggered.
but I'm pretty sure those bhaalspawn talks are again banters that can be triggered by ctrl-I and not on timers
also in my last playthrough after defeating sendai and the solar talk, the dialogue about what happened didn't fire, instead when I enter the area before meeting Abazigal that dialogue fired after the comment about the lair.
Its not easy to trigger the bhaalspawn talks with ctr-i, because their gated (behind if yaga/gromnir are dead and timers) you can potentially do it in a rare case if ctr-i after the timers are expired, simply because the bhaal talk is part of the banter file which ctr-i will trigger.
I havent retested the sendai solar talk yet.
I mean in past versions the bhaalspawn talks will always fire immediately after those timers expired, I don't have to worry about them, but now they're just like other banters and if I don't want to let characters stand idle for hours I have to ctrl-I (assume I already passed those events). I don't know which behavior is desired?
There is a 'forced' banter talk triggered after the timer runs down IRTBhaalTalkTimer, set once immediately start of TOB, once after Gromnir and once after Yaga are killed.
So there are 3 'forced banters' done by the mod through the timers.
The first talk can in fact trigger at any time, either from the engine itself (random banter) or the timer.
The second talk is gated till after Gromnir dies.
the third talk is gated to after Yaga dies.
So you can ctr-i to force the first talk at any time, you can ctr-i to force the 2nd talk any time after gromnir dies. the same for after yaga dies.
The original purpose of the code was to 'make sure' you get these talks, as a last resort the timers will force a banter so you get it. But you could get it if your lucky from the normal random banter (or you ctr-i).
If it largely replaces the normal games events then i doubt it would be compatible.
If its just some standalone dungeon adventure then it could work.
I know that's how it's supposed to work, what I wanted to say is that this no longer works at least for me. In my last playthrough I forgot about it, so I didn't get any of them, until I remember it maybe before Abazigal and ctrl-i to finally get them.
I didn't use Ascension, and other setup are same as my previous playthroughs, the only change is the version of this mod.
in SOA I did the gong quest (but didn't return it, planned to do it later) before heading to Spellhold. After the first lovetalk there, Imoen said her single dialogue which should be triggered when you trade the wand for the gong. I checked the scripts, it only checks PartyHasItem("misc6b"). it's a really rare situation but I found it hilarious.
edit: I must say I know little about modding and weidu, but I looked Setup-ImoenRomance.tp2, the command says maybe it should be EXTEND_BOTTOM to something? IMOE25LegacyTaintTalk.baf doesn't specify who should be the one to . I'm sorry if this is a stupid question.
@wuke Your actually right thats my fault i noticed that yesterday and uploaded a fix (and new version) to the website.
Is there, except for the general install order for the usual "non-weidu mods -> story mods -> NPC mods -> etc.", a load order to be considered? Especially w.r.t. Sirene, Isra and DeArnise Romance?
I am asking, because I installed them in a "BG 2 - EE" installation with Project Infinity as
"Sirene -> deArnise -> Isra -> ImoenRomance"
and when opening IMOEN2.bcs with Near Infinity there are some very suspect lines as can be seen below.
The line that bothers me so is
"GlobalGT("Chapter","GLOBAL",109718)"
which I would interpret as a "If the Chapter Global variable is greater than 109718" which seems like it will never be satisfied. It is not the only line like this, there are several occurences in a couple of *.bcs files (not restricted to the Imoen-part of the game).
I should add that I have not installed "Imoen friendship", "Imoen “retrospection” dialogue from IEP extended banters" or "Ascension Improved Imoen-player interactions in dialogue".
And I you can find the complete mod-installation order below.
I hope that are all the information you need.
Thank you for taking your time to help me, it is much appreciated.
What happens is that the variable for chapter is different for a type of mod called 'eet' which combines vanilla, bg2 and tob into one game so the value for a chapter is different (roughly increment by 12)
you can see it in Setup-ImoenRomance.tp2
ACTION_IF (GAME_IS ~eet~) BEGIN
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_1 = 13
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_2 = 14
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_3 = 15
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_4 = 16
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_5 = 17
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_6 = 18
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_7 = 19
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_8 = 20
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_9 = 21
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_10 = 22
END ELSE BEGIN //any other platform
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_1 = 1
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_2 = 2
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_3 = 3
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_4 = 4
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_5 = 5
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_6 = 6
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_7 = 7
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_8 = 8
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_9 = 9
OUTER_SET bg2_chapter_10 = 10
END
Not sure why you would get that strange value, doesn't look like it should be possible but im not sure what project_infinity does.
first of all, thank you for your quick answer!
Searching the problem at project infinity would be the last thing on my list, since (at least as far as I know) it is only a environment to install the mods in a given sequence and should not interfere with the content.
I guess I will have to play around with mod selection/order and I will post here again once I have some more information and hopefully a feasible hypothesis why these strange values appeared.
One more question though. With what editor did you open the *.tp2 ? I am quite new in this modding-thing.
As for the experiments, I have narrowed the problem down to the installation of Imoen and the Rjali-mod.
Unreasonable values appear as soon as both are installed and since this is the recommended install order (Rjali has to manipulate some of the Imoen files) It seems to me that the problem lies with the Rjali-mod, though it is explicitly stated that it is compatible with Imoen, so I guess I have to go and pester them now.
Sorry for wasting your time.
I feel really stupid now. I was able to retrace the problem to version incompatibility.
Rjali is compatible (according to its readme) with Imoen V 3.9.6. and (since the Imoen Readme was saying so) I believed to have exactly that version.
Turns out I was using V 3.9.7. which I found out by opening the tp2 (thank you @elyon for the tip to simply use notepad).
Finally Imoen V3.9.9. (the lastest while I write this comment) does not produce such unreasonable values.
Looking around this is an error that crops up with some mods and iconv on linux.
Some people are successfully installed it on mac, perhaps they can help.