Web vs. Stinking Cloud
BelgarathMTH
Member Posts: 5,653
Hi, I have a sorcerer character who's about to need to decide between one of these two spells for a second level crowd control spell.
It looks like Web and Stinking Cloud are effectively the same thing (save every round or be incapacitated), but Stinking Cloud covers a bigger area, while Web covers a smaller area but can be cast farther away.
Which of these two spells is better if you have to choose one? Is it worth it for a sorcerer to eventually pick both of them?
My sorcerer already has Melf's Acid Arrow and Invisibility. He will take a crowd control spell for a second level spell at the next opportunity. For the last two second level spells, when they finally come, I am thinking maybe Mirror Image and either Glitterdust or whichever CC he didn't take first (Web or Stinking Cloud).
It looks like Web and Stinking Cloud are effectively the same thing (save every round or be incapacitated), but Stinking Cloud covers a bigger area, while Web covers a smaller area but can be cast farther away.
Which of these two spells is better if you have to choose one? Is it worth it for a sorcerer to eventually pick both of them?
My sorcerer already has Melf's Acid Arrow and Invisibility. He will take a crowd control spell for a second level spell at the next opportunity. For the last two second level spells, when they finally come, I am thinking maybe Mirror Image and either Glitterdust or whichever CC he didn't take first (Web or Stinking Cloud).
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Comments
I think Web will be generally more useful. It works on a broader number of creatures and you can use the rings of free action to make your own tanks immune to its effects. If there's a mixed group of spiders and other enemies web will split it up for you.
Web is probably better since it applies a -2 penalty to anyone saving against it where as stinking cloud applies a +2 bonus to anyone saving against it.
It's still a great spell though, especially when stacked multiple times with a sequencer. Combine it with 'Free Action' items for even greater face-melting.
Stinking cloud will be more effective against mage enemies (since they have terrible save vs poison) however mage enemies are not that dangerous in iwd. And you can't gain immunity to it unless you play a dwarven cleric with a save vs poison/death of 0. Also it does nothing to undead. Pass.
Glitterdust is effective too, it works on pretty much anything. Duration is short with 4 rounds but a sorc is well suited to throw glitter every four rounds, sorc's strength (aside from not needing scrolls) is casting same spell over and over and glitterdust can make all enemies in the battlefield completely blind if you cast it every four rounds.
Melfs acid arrow is a weak choice, IMHO, for killing trolls you can use sunscorch, a brilliant lvl1 deuid spell, or burning hands. If you like doing continous damage or melting enemies with acid, Vitriolic sphere does far more damage than this.
There are plenty of ring of free action and the game is full of undead.
A sorcerer and a bard casting a couple of web helped me a lot in hof.
Cloud is weaker in comparison.
About last two i'll recommend blind (afaik it's lvl 2 spell?)
Cast it on enemies and they get thaco penalty, cast it on your party members - and they gets invulnerable to umber hulk's gaze of confusion. That may be not a problem on corr, but on hof confusion is pain in ass.
Never used glitterdust so I can't say about this but blind isn't so redundant because of this immunity.
@wubble haven't beat basilisk yet, I'll say later for sure.
Web doesn't have a -2 to enemy's saving throws bonus in IWDEE. Also, it doesn't work on large creatures. And I think that more often than not in IWDEE large creatures pose a lot more threat than small ones. There're lots of large creatures in IWDEE, starting from giants.
Stinking Cloud works agains your own party if your characters go into it's area of effect. Also, it doesn't work agains the Undead. There're indeed lots and lots of undead in the game.
A sorcerer is limited in his spells so each spell this character chooses, must be effective and useful.
So, I advice on taking neigther Web nor Stinking Cloud for your sorcerer.
The spell I find much more effective is Glitterdust. I think it's one of the best in the game. -4 penalty to enemies' attack rolls and Armor Class which can be added to your clerical buffs/debuffs, bard songs and other enhancements is very useful.
In a battle, my sorcerer starts with Slow and then casts Glitterdust. This is the best option, in my opinion.
Glitterdust is nice, but web (or stinking cloud) last longer, and you need to cast them before you see enemies, so the 4 rounds of glitterdust aren't enough at all.
A mix of a couple of Grease and a couple of Web let you face few enemies at the same time for a almost a full fight.
Then again, my sorcerer was kicking butt last night on the first and second levels of Dragon's Eye, fireballing lizard men and bombadier beetles to kingdom come. He still hadn't gotten to pick any second level crowd control spells, but he didn't seem to need them when he could just blast everything in sight. I sure would miss all those spell slots if I went bard. And Icewind Dale makes specialist mages so restricted in their schools. Hmm, what to do, what to do.
Maybe I'll finally finish a run some time next year. LOL
To kill umber hulks in iwd ee? Blindness is working there, as I stated. You can even notice that in description
"Blind creatures are immune to gaze attacks" (iwd:ee manual)
I guess that's the reason why this spell moved from lvl1 (bg) to lvl2 (iwd).
To kill basilisks in bg:ee? I'm not sure if this works, as it is different games from different companies, and spells in this games works differently. BUT you can easily protect your party in BG with simple 1lvl spell "Protection from Petrification" or "Potion of Mirrored Eyes". Or just kill via undead summon.
To kill basilisks in iwd:ee with blindness? As I said before I haven't meet them to the moment, so I can't say for sure if Blindness works. But you can still kill them via methods mentioned before. Hello Oswald, I want that potion. Are you sure there are basilisks in IWD:EE??
And yes, I know you have limited vision then you are blinded, but I don't see a problem here.
First Umbers are melee enemy so they get close to you, there you can hit them.
Second if at least one person in your party aren't blinded but protected from confusion you can point rest of your party to your enemy.
How to protect against umbers? Rage, Enrage, Potion of Clarity (hello again oswald), Mind Blank (8lvl wizard), Exaltation (lvl 3 priest), Chaotic Commands (lvl 5 priest), Imperviuos Sanctity of Mind (lvl 9 priest) and others.
Third you can just blind your summons and send them attacking umbers, while you take a cup of warm tea.
It is actually level 2 in PnP, which must be where I had gotten that impression.
Web
Horror
Glitterdust
Mirror Image
Blur
I did HOF from Level 1 party. So I used Web, Horror and Glitterdust a lot early. But since all my melee and range guys have Free Action something or other I still use Web and Glitterdust even end game. Horror kind of goes out the window but was extremely helpful early. Blur I really dont use as much. Stoneskin and Mirror Image mostly.
I do have F/D with Entangle and a Archer with Entangle as well. Again extremely useful early.
Stinking Cloud you need Poison Resistance. Think even end game I have 2 characters with that only. So better stick with Web even though it nerfed compared to BG2.