@Merina Using Disintegration on unnamed enemies starts being really reasonable I found. Might have missed some loot, but I doubt anything substantial. Its a great spell vs enemies bad at fort saves, notably can work vs enrmied immune to death spells. This and tons of crowd control spells made HoF doable. Also tons of Delayed Blast Fireballs and other AoE high damage spells.
Planescape:Torment would have to happen first. I'd play the hell out of that one!
I can easily summarize my thoughts on that as: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooope.
I don't want to see anyone touching Ps:T, and I certainly don't trust beamdog with it.
I would probably play IWD2:EE though. Well, I say play, but what I really mean is mod.
@keneth Out of curiosity, why wouldn't you trust Beamdog to handle PS:T? I have seen other comments online from people who say they are not pleased with the new content, but what exactly is it that you don't like?
You have a deadzone in most ability scores from 7 to 14. There is no difference in having 9 dexterity vs 11. No difference whatsoever.
Which was the entire point of a 3d6 system for generating stats. In P&P, unlike in BG/IWD you don't just sit around rolling for 2 hours until you get stats you like. Most "house rules" allowed some re-rolling, but it was generally very limited. The point of the "dead zone" is that is the range of "average". If you're "Average" in some stat you don't get any bonuses or penalties. Furthermore if you're within the bellcurve within a standard deviation of the mean you're still within the realm of average.... no bonuses or penalties until you're in the upper or lower fringes away from the mean.
The exceptional strength scores were limited to certain races and classes and were originally meant to be pretty much the boundaries of human/demi human strength (18/00 was Ogre strength and 19 Hill giant). Also they were there to make it an even greater push to improve beyond 18s into the 19 and 20 (giant or godlike range). IIRC, for example, if you were 18/27 and picked up a "strength +1" effect it would only push you to the next bracket (18/51) or whatever. Again, this was an attempt by the rules to keep humans and demi-humans (PCs) within sane boundaries and still have the stat system work for assigning stats to monsters, giants, dragons, and gods.
On topic though. I recently tried playing IWD2 and I didn't like the 3rd ED (particularly fixed stats), and definitely don't like the GUI compared to the other Infinity games. Also IMO the best part of BG series is the NPCs and their interaction. While IWD is a fun playthrough and a pretty looking game, with no actual characters it's rather forgettable. Now if they build IWD2 EE with a dozen well written NPCs that would interact BG style I'd deal with the crappy GUI and rules and play the hell out of it.
I'd love IWDIIEE, it will be rather dissapointing if it isn't made, especially after the first one got a remake. If you wanted to play them both in the proper order, then moving on from IWDEE to normal IWDII would feel like a downgrade.
Yep 3e was hard and no fun for me. You have to min max in order to survive, can't even make a good fighter/mage build, even those new stoneskins were disappointment.
I agree that it is a difficult game that requires stealth , scouting, spell tactics, buffs... but I don't agree with the min maxing part. In IWD2 a human can start with a perfect 18/14/14/10/10 ( or 16/16/14/10/10) distribution, good enough for any class .
Yep 3e was hard and no fun for me. You have to min max in order to survive, can't even make a good fighter/mage build, even those new stoneskins were disappointment.
I agree that it is a difficult game that requires stealth , scouting, spell tactics, buffs... but I don't agree with the min maxing part. In IWD2 a human can start with a perfect 18/14/14/10/10 ( or 16/16/14/10/10) distribution, good enough for any class .
Humans that powergame are actually really solid in IWD2, they even get that extra skill if they have 3 int. Lame, but handy for a warrior or cleric. IWD2 has some pretty terrifying mobs actually, even non-HoF. SWAT style works really well in IWD2. Its key for the PCs to dominate the battle from the first round, so dropping several high level damage spells coupled with crowd control like Chaos is sometimes almost mandatory.
A funny fight I remember is the Dire Wolves... so bloody strong, and no xp or treasure! Crazy how low their CR was, all things considered.
Yeah I would totally play the shit out of the this game IF they do precisely what they did with BG and IWD - put it into the BG2 engine.
I mean it.
Face it, what possible purpose could there be to play IWD2EE? The EE is nice and all but it's still the BG2 engine, still from 1999 or whatever year it came out. IWD2 is available NOW, for cheap, and it has a MORE advanced engine than the EEs. So what's the point of upgrading it? It wouldn't even be an upgrade, it would just be a re-packaging. Oooooh, *zoom*... big deal.
Instead, I say take all the content and DOWNgrade it, to 2E rules in the IWDEE engine. Then players would have a choice: the newer rules (3E) in the newer engine (IWD2), or the older rules (2E) in the older engine (EE). It would allow players to play all the games in a uniform ruleset, which you can't do right now.
2E 4 LIFE
:mic drop:
I would like 2e more if there were no Race/Class Restrictions
I enjoy the way Multiclassing and Dual classing (I've never Dual classed, though, I don't play humans) works and feel it's equal to customization as the 3e/3.5/Pathfinder feat system provides.
I REALLY enjoy that Cure spells are Necromancy. Life and Death magic is houseruled as Necromancy in PnP games I run.
However, my two favorite D&D characters that I've made in tabletop, a Drow Wizard (Necromancer) and Gnome Bard aren't available in 2e
No Elf Necromancer or Gnome Bard.
An Elf Cleric necromancer and Gnome Illusionist/Thief is a good substitute but it's still lame that the classes I want are there but just not selectable.
Also, somewhat off-topic but I always feel weird about using mods. I usually end up using them to remove race/class restrictions but then I have this feeling like I'm cheating and this isn't the way the game is supposed to be played.
. . .in hindsight this post might be a mistake because I may de-rail this thread and that's not my intentions >_>
TL;DR. I don't like race/class restrictions that have no lore within-universe to back them up.
Unless of course 2e Faerun does have lore for why Gnomes can't be bards. Totally direct me to that crap so I'm ok with the seemingly arbitrary system XD.
It's like in Dragon Age I don't mind Dwarves can't be mages because they are near-immune to magic and therefore can't use it.
So if they say Elves can't be Necromancers because their immortal blood doesn't allow them to contact the negative energy plane, then I'd be cool with it. I just haven't really found such a lore reason >_<
... So what's the point of upgrading it? It wouldn't even be an upgrade, it would just be a re-packaging. Oooooh, *zoom*... big deal.
For me I would find a "re-packaging" update to be more than enough to justify an EE. Every time I try to play any of the original IE games can't bring myself to play them for long since I have gotten so used to having zoom and middle-click to move map. I would buy this game if the only thing they did to it was include zoom, middle-click to move, new UI, and not having to fight with the widescreen mod.
Having never played IWD2 before I can't comment on what rule set I like better, if it was possible I would say the dev team should included both (via a toggle button in options, or a choice at the start of a new game) so that the player can pick what one they like better. But given how different the two systems are I don't expect this going to be possible.
Sometimes I think Deep Gnomes have already taken over the planet through the power of illusion, and our brains are simply batteries powering their machines...
Wildmages are simply people put in the battery pack the wrong way round causing sparks...
They would have to actually finish the game. Like they never got to implement attacks of opportunity. Add prestige classes and so forth. This is the game they could actually make an EE version of, and not just a polished / fixed version like the rest. Nothing is really enhanced about the other games they have released.
But, who am I kidding. I would play the shit out of it eitherway
They would have to actually finish the game. Like they never got to implement attacks of opportunity. Add prestige classes and so forth. This is the game they could actually make an EE version of, and not just a polished / fixed version like the rest. Nothing is really enhanced about the other games they have released.
But, who am I kidding. I would play the shit out of it eitherway
If they made IWD2:EE like an infinity engine version of Neverwinter Nights 2 I WOULD BE SO HYPE! I hope if they do prestige classes they add as many as they can XD
I am ashamed to admit that I have never actually played IWD2[...]
Sir, you have my envy. As I said in another thread, whatever IWD I offered, IWD II made it better and much more fun. I had a blast playing it. If I had to chose between replaying the BG series and the IWD series, it would come down to SoA + ToB or IWD II.
That said, I wholeheartedly agree with @DreadKhan , especially when he mentions the Forest puzzle. I've never had much use for Wilderness Lore in the game, but if there's a place and time when to use it, it's there. And it would really be good if it made that part easier, otherwise what's the sense in that ability? I would also agree on Intelligence checks for the Lightning puzzle in the Glacier. One thing I would really like to have is some new quests and merchants. Nothing major, but just something to make the game "newer", a little bit like what they did for BG 1 & 2.
@Merina@DreadKhan : I remember using a lot of Symbol of Hopelessness in my HoF runs a lot, especially against those moving mountains called Slayer Knights of Xvim perhaps?. They have insanely high HP and Fortitude bonuses, but that's why Hopelessness comes in handy. It has the advantage of not being HP capped like other Symbols (at those levels, even goblins have more than 150 HPs) and only allowing a save on Will. Drop a couple of those in the battle and see what happens.
So if they say Elves can't be Necromancers because their immortal blood doesn't allow them to contact the negative energy plane, then I'd be cool with it. I just haven't really found such a lore reason >_<
@Vallmyr From chapter 1 in the 2e Complete Wizard's Handbook: "As in the school of invocation/evocation, only the spirits of humans incorporate the energies necessary to master the spells of necromancy. Therefore, only humans are eligible to become necromancers."
The 2e Complete Book of Necromancers mentions that the DM can create unique NPC necromancers from select races, such as drow, orc (witch doctors), dragons (especially shadow dragons), and githyanki, but it's only to provide suitable nemeses for the PCs.
So if they say Elves can't be Necromancers because their immortal blood doesn't allow them to contact the negative energy plane, then I'd be cool with it. I just haven't really found such a lore reason >_<
@Vallmyr From chapter 1 in the 2e Complete Wizard's Handbook: "As in the school of invocation/evocation, only the spirits of humans incorporate the energies necessary to master the spells of necromancy. Therefore, only humans are eligible to become necromancers."
The 2e Complete Book of Necromancers mentions that the DM can create unique NPC necromancers from select races, such as drow, orc (witch doctors), dragons (especially shadow dragons), and githyanki, but it's only to provide suitable nemeses for the PCs.
So there's the 2e lore for you.
You know. I actually own the Complete Book of Necromancers IRL which is why I have all my elven necromancers RPed as Drow in Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale. XD
I also just REALLY like Drow and my first PnP char was a Drow
Didn't know about the first one though.
Edit: Also thank you and such! Now my gripe at least with that is over. XD
Edit the second: The Complete Book of Necromancers is actually the only 2e book I own. I've never even played 2e. >_> I just wanted it for the RP concepts and artwork. Added it to my collection of undead and necromancy D&D books next to Heroes of Horror and Libris Mortis. Are there any other necromancy books I should get that you (or anyone here, really) know of?
Ravenloft would have lots of Undead. Book of Vile Darkness has a nice couple things too. Savage Species has stuff, mainly for Undead PCs. Gotta say, the LA values are profoundly stupid. Mohrgs are downright bad the way they made them... you're a badly gimped monk with an str score. AND YOU PAY A LEVEL ADJUSTMENT. For something no better than a normal PC. At least Ghasts and Wights make the trade-off worth considering.
Ravenloft would have lots of Undead. Book of Vile Darkness has a nice couple things too. Savage Species has stuff, mainly for Undead PCs. Gotta say, the LA values are profoundly stupid. Mohrgs are downright bad the way they made them... you're a badly gimped monk with an str score. AND YOU PAY A LEVEL ADJUSTMENT. For something no better than a normal PC. At least Ghasts and Wights make the trade-off worth considering.
Book of Vile Darkness looks enticing. That and the Drow of the Underdark are books I definitely need to pick up.
I hope Pathfinder does a necromancy dedicated book someday. I bought their white necromancer pdf file and it's wonderful for a good aligned necromancer.
@Aquadrizzt's tome and blood mod actually has a white necromancer sub-kit. (I like to advertise his awesome mod whenever I can )
I hope if they do make an IWD2:EE a similar mod is released with sub-kits/sub-classes/whatever-you-want-to-call-them and such~
They are prestige classes in 3rd Edition, though IWD did not include any. Some core ones might make the game kor2 interesting hack n slash wise, but its got some pretty great story elements. And some brutal mazes/puzzles.
@Moradin if Wilderness Lore added some improved odds for resting safely, or improve your healing speed while resting, especially outdoors, that'd be a nice boost for an easy to over look skill. If you didn't take any, and or don't figure out you need to use it for Fell Wood, that is one nasty puzzle. The Undead there are tough, especially in HoF. Guessing your way through there is much harder than just brute forcing Watcher's Keep imho. Its a really awesome area once you know how to beat it, but its not straight forward. Does anyone even point out that Wilderness Lore will help in game? even hint? I don't remember. As it is, its a newb trap capable of ending runs permanently. Very frustrating.
I think an expansion quest would greatly improve the game, not necessarily huge, but something optional and difficult to shake things up a bit. I never hit the cap actually, but I did use 6 characters and no 'squire' XP boosters, so I know you have room there. An easy solution would be opening up another old IWD area, ie Vale of Shadows, or the Luremaster's area even. Or, a just a totally new area, ie maybe a Netherese Outpost, with a portal to and from. *shrug* Lots of options though, and it could be a selling point. Even more dialogs that check the talker for race, class, etc too helps immersion and replayability.
Mass Domination on a 2nd run (ie HoF playthrough) Cleric of Bane is a phenomenal spell I found. Completely can change a ridiculous fight to an easy one. Thats about the highest DC you can make in game iirc.
Ive had such good times with Icewind Dale II! The fact that this has base in D&D 3.5 rules does not bother me at all. Ill place out the stats and plan my party carefully for this. Want my characters to fit together in the spirit of roleplay, but also balance them out with their abilities and spells. I really hope they will seriously consider to come with an Enhanced Edition of this game! I bet there would be so many fans out there who would purchase this game!
We can only hope and pray that Beamdog listen to their fans on this!
I would love an enhanced edition for a very special reason: Screen Resolution IWD2 is the only infinity Engine Game which doesn't allow 800x600 resolution!!! Please, I want to zoom in the game!!!
@DJKajuru If they did make an enhanced IWD2, that would be the only reason I'd buy it. Otherwise, aside from a few minor bugs and text edits, it's pretty much "enhanced" as is it.
I just wish there was a game that has the story and writing of the BG trilogy and the battle difficulty of IWD1 & 2. I'm fine with 3rd edition rules, as the IWD2 developers did a great job of implementing them in the game for the most part.
I've only ever played a few hours into IWD2. I really enjoyed what I did play, but I've also gotten pretty spoiled by the EE's. Even with the widescreen patch, things just don't look quite right (it pretty much breaks the UI trying to play in any aspect ration other than the original 4:3 or whatever it is. The game just feels kind of clunky now having spent so much time playing the EE's.
Comments
I don't want to see anyone touching Ps:T, and I certainly don't trust beamdog with it.
I would probably play IWD2:EE though. Well, I say play, but what I really mean is mod.
The exceptional strength scores were limited to certain races and classes and were originally meant to be pretty much the boundaries of human/demi human strength (18/00 was Ogre strength and 19 Hill giant). Also they were there to make it an even greater push to improve beyond 18s into the 19 and 20 (giant or godlike range). IIRC, for example, if you were 18/27 and picked up a "strength +1" effect it would only push you to the next bracket (18/51) or whatever. Again, this was an attempt by the rules to keep humans and demi-humans (PCs) within sane boundaries and still have the stat system work for assigning stats to monsters, giants, dragons, and gods.
On topic though. I recently tried playing IWD2 and I didn't like the 3rd ED (particularly fixed stats), and definitely don't like the GUI compared to the other Infinity games. Also IMO the best part of BG series is the NPCs and their interaction. While IWD is a fun playthrough and a pretty looking game, with no actual characters it's rather forgettable. Now if they build IWD2 EE with a dozen well written NPCs that would interact BG style I'd deal with the crappy GUI and rules and play the hell out of it.
- Improve the combat
- Add the cleric class
- Add the unfinished business
- Patch the game
- Improve the graphics
All they have to do is look at this list http://thunderpeel2001.blogspot.dk/2009/01/planescape-torment-fully-modded.html and make it so that we get that in a released game. As long as they do it like IWD:EE and don't add their own writing or content, it's fine and i'll be looking forward to Torment:EE.
A funny fight I remember is the Dire Wolves... so bloody strong, and no xp or treasure! Crazy how low their CR was, all things considered.
I would like 2e more if there were no Race/Class Restrictions
I enjoy the way Multiclassing and Dual classing (I've never Dual classed, though, I don't play humans) works and feel it's equal to customization as the 3e/3.5/Pathfinder feat system provides.
I REALLY enjoy that Cure spells are Necromancy. Life and Death magic is houseruled as Necromancy in PnP games I run.
However, my two favorite D&D characters that I've made in tabletop, a Drow Wizard (Necromancer) and Gnome Bard aren't available in 2e
No Elf Necromancer or Gnome Bard.
An Elf Cleric necromancer and Gnome Illusionist/Thief is a good substitute but it's still lame that the classes I want are there but just not selectable.
Also, somewhat off-topic but I always feel weird about using mods. I usually end up using them to remove race/class restrictions but then I have this feeling like I'm cheating and this isn't the way the game is supposed to be played.
Of course, I use the mods anyway, but still @_@
. . .in hindsight this post might be a mistake because I may de-rail this thread and that's not my intentions >_>
TL;DR. I don't like race/class restrictions that have no lore within-universe to back them up.
Unless of course 2e Faerun does have lore for why Gnomes can't be bards. Totally direct me to that crap so I'm ok with the seemingly arbitrary system XD.
It's like in Dragon Age I don't mind Dwarves can't be mages because they are near-immune to magic and therefore can't use it.
So if they say Elves can't be Necromancers because their immortal blood doesn't allow them to contact the negative energy plane, then I'd be cool with it. I just haven't really found such a lore reason >_<
Having never played IWD2 before I can't comment on what rule set I like better, if it was possible I would say the dev team should included both (via a toggle button in options, or a choice at the start of a new game) so that the player can pick what one they like better. But given how different the two systems are I don't expect this going to be possible.
Sometimes I think Deep Gnomes have already taken over the planet through the power of illusion, and our brains are simply batteries powering their machines...
Wildmages are simply people put in the battery pack the wrong way round causing sparks...
But, who am I kidding. I would play the shit out of it eitherway
As I said in another thread, whatever IWD I offered, IWD II made it better and much more fun. I had a blast playing it. If I had to chose between replaying the BG series and the IWD series, it would come down to SoA + ToB or IWD II.
That said, I wholeheartedly agree with @DreadKhan , especially when he mentions the Forest puzzle. I've never had much use for Wilderness Lore in the game, but if there's a place and time when to use it, it's there. And it would really be good if it made that part easier, otherwise what's the sense in that ability? I would also agree on Intelligence checks for the Lightning puzzle in the Glacier.
One thing I would really like to have is some new quests and merchants. Nothing major, but just something to make the game "newer", a little bit like what they did for BG 1 & 2.
@Merina @DreadKhan : I remember using a lot of Symbol of Hopelessness in my HoF runs a lot, especially against those moving mountains called Slayer Knights of Xvim perhaps?. They have insanely high HP and Fortitude bonuses, but that's why Hopelessness comes in handy. It has the advantage of not being HP capped like other Symbols (at those levels, even goblins have more than 150 HPs) and only allowing a save on Will. Drop a couple of those in the battle and see what happens.
The 2e Complete Book of Necromancers mentions that the DM can create unique NPC necromancers from select races, such as drow, orc (witch doctors), dragons (especially shadow dragons), and githyanki, but it's only to provide suitable nemeses for the PCs.
So there's the 2e lore for you.
I also just REALLY like Drow and my first PnP char was a Drow
Didn't know about the first one though.
Edit: Also thank you and such! Now my gripe at least with that is over. XD
Edit the second: The Complete Book of Necromancers is actually the only 2e book I own. I've never even played 2e. >_> I just wanted it for the RP concepts and artwork. Added it to my collection of undead and necromancy D&D books next to Heroes of Horror and Libris Mortis. Are there any other necromancy books I should get that you (or anyone here, really) know of?
I hope Pathfinder does a necromancy dedicated book someday. I bought their white necromancer pdf file and it's wonderful for a good aligned necromancer.
@Aquadrizzt's tome and blood mod actually has a white necromancer sub-kit.
(I like to advertise his awesome mod whenever I can
I hope if they do make an IWD2:EE a similar mod is released with sub-kits/sub-classes/whatever-you-want-to-call-them and such~
@Moradin if Wilderness Lore added some improved odds for resting safely, or improve your healing speed while resting, especially outdoors, that'd be a nice boost for an easy to over look skill. If you didn't take any, and or don't figure out you need to use it for Fell Wood, that is one nasty puzzle. The Undead there are tough, especially in HoF. Guessing your way through there is much harder than just brute forcing Watcher's Keep imho. Its a really awesome area once you know how to beat it, but its not straight forward. Does anyone even point out that Wilderness Lore will help in game? even hint? I don't remember. As it is, its a newb trap capable of ending runs permanently. Very frustrating.
I think an expansion quest would greatly improve the game, not necessarily huge, but something optional and difficult to shake things up a bit. I never hit the cap actually, but I did use 6 characters and no 'squire' XP boosters, so I know you have room there. An easy solution would be opening up another old IWD area, ie Vale of Shadows, or the Luremaster's area even. Or, a just a totally new area, ie maybe a Netherese Outpost, with a portal to and from. *shrug* Lots of options though, and it could be a selling point. Even more dialogs that check the talker for race, class, etc too helps immersion and replayability.
Mass Domination on a 2nd run (ie HoF playthrough) Cleric of Bane is a phenomenal spell I found. Completely can change a ridiculous fight to an easy one. Thats about the highest DC you can make in game iirc.
We can only hope and pray that Beamdog listen to their fans on this!
IWD2 is the only infinity Engine Game which doesn't allow 800x600 resolution!!! Please, I want to zoom in the game!!!
I just wish there was a game that has the story and writing of the BG trilogy and the battle difficulty of IWD1 & 2. I'm fine with 3rd edition rules, as the IWD2 developers did a great job of implementing them in the game for the most part.