Ehh. Reading all the enthusiastic comments in this thread, I get the feeling that I might be the only person on the planet who did not enjoy Icewind Dale II.
I actually dug the 3E ruleset and the new options it brought. However, I absolutely detested the plot - the whole Legion of the Chimera thing was like something out of an episode of Power Rangers. Even when I learned to ignore the backstory and take it one area at a time, I still could not get over how bland the encounters felt. Even the more interesting enemies such as the white dragons or the black dragon guardian were exteremely straightforward and required little to no tactical planning. The difficulty curve, too, was way off. The first part with the orcs and the bridge was tedious and extremely unforgiving, requiring many reloads. However, it was not too far after the Ice Temple that my characters suddenly became unbeatable killing machines. I don't really remember feeling challenged by the second half of the game.
Oddly enough, I am currently in the process of playing the first IWD for the first time, and though it shares some of the problems of its successor, I have really enjoyed it so far. I cannot really put my finger on why this is so; the first IWD just feels a lot more - alive, I suppose. And though the plot is really nothing special, it lacks the cringe-factor of the second installment.
Ehh. Reading all the enthusiastic comments in this thread, I get the feeling that I might be the only person on the planet who did not enjoy Icewind Dale II.
I actually dug the 3E ruleset and the new options it brought. However, I absolutely detested the plot - the whole Legion of the Chimera thing was like something out of an episode of Power Rangers. Even when I learned to ignore the backstory and take it one area at a time, I still could not get over how bland the encounters felt. Even the more interesting enemies such as the white dragons or the black dragon guardian were exteremely straightforward and required little to no tactical planning. The difficulty curve, too, was way off. The first part with the orcs and the bridge was tedious and extremely unforgiving, requiring many reloads. However, it was not too far after the Ice Temple that my characters suddenly became unbeatable killing machines. I don't really remember feeling challenged by the second half of the game.
Oddly enough, I am currently in the process of playing the first IWD for the first time, and though it shares some of the problems of its successor, I have really enjoyed it so far. I cannot really put my finger on why this is so; the first IWD just feels a lot more - alive, I suppose. And though the plot is really nothing special, it lacks the cringe-factor of the second installment.
Icewind Dale 2 was basically a rushed job to milk the last bit of profit they could out of the Infinity Engine. The tide had already turned towards 3D graphics. Neverwinter Nights had already graduated this type of game to a different level. The 3rd edition rules were basically shoehorned into the existing engine.
The story is pretty disjointed and weak compared to the other 4 games, but I enjoy it all the same. If you did a poll, I would bet my last dollar it would come out as the least favorite Infinity Engine game, but at the same time it is still head and shoulders above most other CRPGs.
If you did a poll, I would bet my last dollar it would come out as the least favorite Infinity Engine game, but at the same time it is still head and shoulders above most other CRPGs.
I have to say I thought IWD 2 was better than 1. But as a favourite Infinity Engine game? Neither IWD is gonna be high even though they are both sooo good.
Ehh. Reading all the enthusiastic comments in this thread, I get the feeling that I might be the only person on the planet who did not enjoy Icewind Dale II.
I actually dug the 3E ruleset and the new options it brought. However, I absolutely detested the plot - the whole Legion of the Chimera thing was like something out of an episode of Power Rangers. Even when I learned to ignore the backstory and take it one area at a time, I still could not get over how bland the encounters felt. Even the more interesting enemies such as the white dragons or the black dragon guardian were exteremely straightforward and required little to no tactical planning. The difficulty curve, too, was way off. The first part with the orcs and the bridge was tedious and extremely unforgiving, requiring many reloads. However, it was not too far after the Ice Temple that my characters suddenly became unbeatable killing machines. I don't really remember feeling challenged by the second half of the game.
Oddly enough, I am currently in the process of playing the first IWD for the first time, and though it shares some of the problems of its successor, I have really enjoyed it so far. I cannot really put my finger on why this is so; the first IWD just feels a lot more - alive, I suppose. And though the plot is really nothing special, it lacks the cringe-factor of the second installment.
Icewind Dale 2 was basically a rushed job to milk the last bit of profit they could out of the Infinity Engine. The tide had already turned towards 3D graphics. Neverwinter Nights had already graduated this type of game to a different level. The 3rd edition rules were basically shoehorned into the existing engine.
The story is pretty disjointed and weak compared to the other 4 games, but I enjoy it all the same. If you did a poll, I would bet my last dollar it would come out as the least favorite Infinity Engine game, but at the same time it is still head and shoulders above most other CRPGs.
Maybe Obsidian should be the ones to do an EE of IWD2. Let Josh Sawyer actually finish the game. I read he only had like 2 weeks or something ridiculous to write the game.
Ehh. Reading all the enthusiastic comments in this thread, I get the feeling that I might be the only person on the planet who did not enjoy Icewind Dale II.
I actually dug the 3E ruleset and the new options it brought. However, I absolutely detested the plot - the whole Legion of the Chimera thing was like something out of an episode of Power Rangers. Even when I learned to ignore the backstory and take it one area at a time, I still could not get over how bland the encounters felt. Even the more interesting enemies such as the white dragons or the black dragon guardian were exteremely straightforward and required little to no tactical planning. The difficulty curve, too, was way off. The first part with the orcs and the bridge was tedious and extremely unforgiving, requiring many reloads. However, it was not too far after the Ice Temple that my characters suddenly became unbeatable killing machines. I don't really remember feeling challenged by the second half of the game.
Oddly enough, I am currently in the process of playing the first IWD for the first time, and though it shares some of the problems of its successor, I have really enjoyed it so far. I cannot really put my finger on why this is so; the first IWD just feels a lot more - alive, I suppose. And though the plot is really nothing special, it lacks the cringe-factor of the second installment.
Icewind Dale 2 was basically a rushed job to milk the last bit of profit they could out of the Infinity Engine. The tide had already turned towards 3D graphics. Neverwinter Nights had already graduated this type of game to a different level. The 3rd edition rules were basically shoehorned into the existing engine.
The story is pretty disjointed and weak compared to the other 4 games, but I enjoy it all the same. If you did a poll, I would bet my last dollar it would come out as the least favorite Infinity Engine game, but at the same time it is still head and shoulders above most other CRPGs.
Maybe Obsidian should be the ones to do an EE of IWD2. Let Josh Sawyer actually finish the game. I read he only had like 2 weeks or something ridiculous to write the game.
The main plot doesn't hold up compared to the other 4, I like some of the writing and the side quests. Thankfully, Sawyer and Obsidian now have their own franchise they can flesh out as they see fit. I have a feeling the promised Pillars of Eternity expansion will be very high quality.
As most of us have said, I'd be eternally grateful if Beamdog dove into this game and Planescape: Torment and completed the circle. At the same time, it's a far bigger headache than BG, and in the end I don't see how IWD2 could possibly be as monetarily lucrative as the games they have already released.
Speaking as someone who's currently playing through IWD 2 (up to Dragon's Eye) for the first time and has completed the other popular IE games (BG trilogy and IWD) I think I can understand why people find IWD 2 underwhelming compared to the previous titles. Some thoughts on what I've seen so far:
Music: I don't know whether this is a bug, but there doesn't seem to be enough music, particularly for the battles. Often, tracks simply don't play and the only thing you hear during fights is the clanging of swords and the incantations of mages. Contrast this with the BG trilogy, where appropriate battle music would almost always play with the specific track depending on the threat posed by your opponent. This causes the game to lose out somewhat on the feeling of grandiosity and fantasy.
Characters and story: It would be a stretch to claim the first IWD had rich and involving characters but the ones in IWD2 just seem particularly insipid (although there was nothing wrong with their voice acting). The sub-villains of IWD 1 were significantly more colorful and interesting: the psychotic Malavon, condescending Yxunomei, the frost giant Joril, etc.. whereas the ones in IWD2 seem to have even less foreshadowing and less dialogue: Sherincal, Beastmaster assassin from the Hosttower, three priestesses in the Ice Temple with an inexplicable obsession with a minor Aurilite priestess from the previous game.
Gameplay: I had no problem with the 3rd edition rules, which seem an improvement over 2nd ed rules and are quite interesting, but I did have a problem with the game's reliance on ambushes as a game mechanic. Seriously, they could have named the game IWD2: A constant series of ambushes. This wouldn't be a problem in and of itself if it weren't for the fact that IWD2 has this weird and aggravating mechanic where enemies just "pop" into existence right on top of your party instead of approaching from the fog of war. *Spoiler alert* Notable examples are: worg riders being teleported right next to party members if a war drum is struck at the goblin fortress (thus negating party formation), hordes of hook horrors appearing from areas you've already cleared, and half-breed sorceresses appearing out of thin air near the entrance to the third level of Dragon's Eye. It didn't help that mobs seem to have higher HP pools in this game: IWD1 was grindy as is and IWD 2 seems to have raised the grind factor up a notch, which does nothing for the gameplay in my opinion (it just makes battles last longer).
Despite all I've said, IWD 2 is still a reasonably good game (I aim to complete it after all) but it just somehow feels stale in comparison to BG trilogy and IWD 1.
The difficulty of the game varies a great deal depending on your party. If you have a really solid party, yes, it'll start getting pretty easy, but it WILL have a few very unpleasant fights waiting for you. Some are downright absurd. The last fight in particular is pretty arduous by the standards of Infinity Engine games, despite not being very gimmicky (...Melissan! GTFO here and die already!!).
If the game seems too easy, either try making a less optimal party (IE use a monk and Ranger, don't use a brute melee guy, no Cleric of Bane or Lathander, etc) or go nuts and try Heart of Fury mode. If you are familiar with the Epic Level Handbook, HoF mode in IWD2 comes close to making everything a Paragon creature, AKA +20 to everything. They will reliably hit an AC 60 character, and will hit INCREDIBLY hard, meaning even a Barbarian will die from time to time. Those semi-challenging ambushes can become nightmares in HoF, especially the later game ones... even with foreknowledge and a pretty well leveled party you can get steamrolled. It's vastly harder than HoF from IWD1, thats for sure.
The annoying thing about the many minor villains is how little foreshadowing we get for some of them, but most of them are fairly cool. Torak was a tool, but Sherincal is a beast (...unless you can cast Blind on here. heh), and has a pretty nifty attitude. The whole premise of the 'return of the repressed' is a really big trope in the horror tradition, so I think the Legion wasn't bad, the biggest problem is if you miss certain dialogues, the game seems very bland.
I strongly suspect IWD2 doesn't use the actual CR for some monsters, and using a higher difficulty which increases damages mostly leads to tragedy due to archers one shotting, well, anyone with a x3 crit for quite awhile.
I love 3rd edition rules, actually - it gets rid of the roll-roll-roll-your-char gently down the streeeeeeeeeem game at the beginning, and it makes bards awesome! Anyway, I'm finding myself hoping that they do re-vamp IWD2.
I'll probably buy it. And then I'll probably wonder why I did because I didn't enjoy it the original game much. In fact I don't think I ever bothered to finish it.
I bought IWD: EE last night and I'm already wondering why I did that. Because I thought the original game was really tedious.
Still, it looks very pretty and I love the music when you are in Easthaven at the start.
@Permidion_Stark Just make a lady Halfling thief leader and then you'll love it!
I didn't like the lack of story and NPC banter; it was just like BG if you rolled all custom characters - sort of bland and empty. But not bad, if that makes sense. Probably would be fun if people really did RP the characters (Multi or something)...
...We can do IWD with the buddy girls, Alora and Jaheira, with some meatshields and Aerie... Wait. We're already doing that in Greyhawk RP...
@Permidion_Stark Just make a lady Halfling thief leader and then you'll love it!
I didn't like the lack of story and NPC banter; it was just like BG if you rolled all custom characters - sort of bland and empty. But not bad, if that makes sense. Probably would be fun if people really did RP the characters (Multi or something)...
...We can do IWD with the buddy girls, Alora and Jaheira, with some meatshields and Aerie... Wait. We're already doing that in Greyhawk RP...
It would probably be fun to play as a multiplayer, that way you would get some party interaction. It would be great if you could just lift the NPCs out of Baldur's Gate and use them in IWD. I'd love to do it with Edwin, Alora, Minsc, Jaheira etc in the party.
I voted yes, but I am not sure actually if I would. Like some have mentioned, there isn't really a whole lot to do except "downgrade" it to 2E rules, and I think that would ruin the individuality of IWD2, particularly with character creation. For instance, no more Monk/Sorcerers or Fighter/Rogue/Bards (two characters I have in my current party).
As for the game itself, I haven't found it terribly gripping, which is a shame because I fell in LOVE with Icewind Dale. Then again, Icewind Dale took a bit to get the ball rolling IMO, so maybe IWD2 is the same. All in all, I love my current party; the feats or whatever confuse the heck out of me, but I can't get over how awesome it is to make literally ANY multiclass you want (with some possible penalties, depending on what you do). Also, while I know it's gotten some flak, I find the point system very fair and easier to accept than rolling a god of a hero (which is justified in the BG series, but not so much IWD).
Its already a polished game in a different feeling engine if that makes sense. It doesn't feel like a Baldurs Gate game, more like an RPG in the style of BG by a different company. I quite enjoyed it but I've never finished it.
I would definitely buy IWD2 EE. I'm only in the beginning of my first play through (goblin fortress) but I am absolutely loving the game so far. I love how your stats influence certain dialogues and I'm really happy with the challenge the game has provided thus far. I find the encounters fun and interesting. 3E rules are intuitive and have a much easier learning curve than 2E, which I appreciate because this lets me spend more time playing the game instead of learning how the game works.
I am a bit worried about the game eventually becoming easy though. I've read quite a few posts about the difficulty dropping off later on in the game. As I said above, I really like the difficulty of the game thus far and I want to preserve that throughout the game. I understand that this type of game allows a wide range of play styles which can drastically alter the difficulty. Someone who rests after every fight may find the game becomes too easy and someone who is strictly role playing may find the game too difficult.
What should I be doing to avoid the game becoming too easy? My party consists of 4 of the premade characters (pretty bad!), a decent Fighter I created and a min-maxed rogue I created. I am trying to role play. What I mean by that is no metagaming, resting when only absolutely necessary and if it is sensible, etc. I'm also trying to limit reloads to party wipes or hopeless situations. Should I be able to maintain the difficulty throughout the game with this sort of play style? Are there any spells or similar things I should avoid to maintain this difficulty?
The defenders of nature (Undead hunter, archer, druid, fighter/thief, sorceror)
Etc.
IWD2 takes that to a whole new level.
* You can have a party of drow/underdark races. * You can have a holy party led by a half-angel, and where everyone has paladin, monk or cleric levels. I mean...a paladin/thief? Awesome! * You can have a real dwarven party without nerfing yourself. A dwarf fighter/bard sounds awesome to add some magical buffing power. * For a nature themed party, you can have a ranger/thief, which is a great replacement for stalker.
For people like me who can't play unless they have a story in their head, this is great.
I'd play it as is, not holding my breath for this to happen!
It really could benefit from an overhaul, but its a different rule set; I would think unless it was used as a stepping stone towards making a new game (with a presumeably more modern rule-set), it will be lots of hassles for a lower profile game.
Its funny I just created a new party in it and played a bit around Targos. The big difference that came to my mind was that there was no zoom option. The second was that there was no quick loot bar. The third was that the "tab" key is actually set to the alt key instead. Without even touching content I think there are a lot of improvements that can be made here (including like I mentioned previously how some of the info about your character is organized in the character record page).
The story is pretty disjointed and weak compared to the other 4 games, but I enjoy it all the same. If you did a poll, I would bet my last dollar it would come out as the least favorite Infinity Engine game, but at the same time it is still head and shoulders above most other CRPGs.
Agree. The plot could benefit greatly from some Enhancement, including more side-quests and more race- or class-specific dialog options.
I really like the 3e rules, and feel that IWD2 did a decent job in terms of implementation, but those could use some enhancement as well. Stuff like Clerical Domains are a bit unbalanced -- the best ones are generally the ones with passive benefits, since active benefits compete directly with spellcasting. Support for contingent effects might help a lot here. Stuff like: - Selune's Freedom: 1/day, when you are slowed or rendered helpless, you get Freedom of Movement for 1 round/level (or whatever the normal spell duration is). Automatic trigger, no button-bar space required. - Selune's Moon Shield: passive +1 to all saves vs. spell effects. - Ilmater's Pain Touch: When you are below 50% max health, all your melee attacks inflict Pain Touch (Fort save or suffer -2 penalty to Str and Dex for 2 rounds). - Helm's Shield: +1 to all saves. - Helm's Watch: +1 to AC, and an additional +2 to AC vs. missile attacks. - Bane, Mask and Oghma all grant a +1 skill bonus, which is nice at level 1, but isn't really sufficient. It ought to be possible to make those skills class skills, so you can put points into them and get full value. If that's not feasible, then a scaling bonus (+1 at level 1, +2 at level 4, +3 at level 6, etc.) might be sufficient.
Other mechanical tweaks which would improve the game: - Lingering Song is great, but currently broken. You can stack all 5 songs, and some songs stack with themselves for ungodly bonuses. Make it so triggering Lingering Song erases the current song bonus before applying the new one. You should be able to have any ONE song effect at a time. - Bards and Rangers ought to get 3 skill points per level, rather than 2. - Bards would benefit a lot from starting with all 3 dots in Armored Arcana. However, it might not be balanced to give Wizards and Sorcerers such easy access to armor as just taking 1 level of Bard. So, maybe give the 3 points to Bards over several levels: first dot at level 4, then 8, and final dot at 12. - Paladins of Mystra ought to multi-class freely with Sorcerers, instead of Wizards. - Make Unarmed Strike a weapon in which only Monks get free proficiency, but otherwise you can put points into it just like any other weapon proficiency. Make it a Finesse weapon, and maybe think about adding a Monk subclass which can multi into Fighter for Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike). - Make the Monk of the Dark Moon use Charisma for its AC bonus instead of Wisdom -- or, add the feat which provides that benefit (Ascetic Mage). - Adding an LN-only Monk which can freely multi-class with Druid would encourage adding more than just one Monk level on a Druid. - Gnomes lose out severely by having Favored Class: Illusionist. Even just having Wizard instead of Illusionist would be an improvement, but something like Bard or Ranger for the Rock Gnome, and Monk for the Svirfneblin, would be even better. - There ought to be more race-limited feats. - Half-Elves totally suck. They ought to have access to Human-only feats, and they ought to have access to Elf-only feats as well. That wouldn't totally fix them, but at least they'd be viable. - Half-Orcs suck as well. They ought to have access to Human-only feats, and they should either get access to some strong Orc specific feats, or they should get +2 to another ability score to balance out their current pain. Perhaps +2 Con. Giving them another minor buff, like the +4 vs. Poison feat for free, would be nice. It's not a feat that matters often enough to ever get taken, but free bonuses are always nice. - It's frustrating to have characters with different movement speeds. Make the Barbarian feature, the Monk feature, and the Dash feat all give the exact same speed enhancement.
Some other Enhancement ideas: - Racial Class Levels. Implemented as a race-limited kit for classes which don't have them currently. Either as a bonus for adhering to a Favored Class (Elf Wizard, Dwarf Fighter, Halfling Rogue), or as compensation for going off the reservation and trying something different (Elf Fighter, Gnome Druid, Half-Orc Bard). - Some Prestige Classes could get worked in like this, as well -- stuff like the Arcane Archer being an Elf and Half-Elf limited subclass of Ranger, for example. - Fake Prestige Classes like the BG:EE Dragon Disciple would be a lot more viable under 3e rules, especially stuff like the Con increase. Since IWD2 has spontaneous spell conversion, like how Clerics can turn spells into Cure spells, I'd suggest making the DD's breath weapon a spontaneous conversion for Sorcerer spells, rather than a 1/day button.
If you're willing to put in a LOT of work, maybe some (temporary or permanent) joinable NPCs. People like: - The uninjured solider standing around near the wharf -- Reig's uninjured friend. - One (or more) of the uninjured people in the Medical Pavilion. - Maybe one of the injured people, if you manage to heal them -- like the Diviner, perhaps. - One of the Iron Collar Band mercenaries, if only one of them survives the goblin attack. - That Ranger whose husband you rescue, and maybe her husband after you rescue him. - That Druid whose wife you rescue, and maybe his wife after you rescue her. - Torak the Orc, if your party leader was a female Half-Orc. - The young Sorceress from the Wandering Village. - One of the Drow Clerics or Wizards from their encampment. Not the main one, of course; maybe the female Cleric who expresses dismay at her current circumstances. - The Tiefling Bard or the Human Monk from the monastery (or both). - One of the ghosts in Lonelywood, or the silent ghost from the shallow grave near Lonelywood. Having an Incorporeal ally might be interesting.
I would absolutely play the shit out of it! Even though it would probably be no more than a graphical upgrade, I'm fine with that. The High res mod makes the game chuggy and the interface suck. Take my money, Beamdog! If you don't, you're just being lazy.
Comments
"I hope they work on it , even if it's shit like you said, I will buy it ."
I would also like a huge mod to play BG2 with IWD core/engine
I actually dug the 3E ruleset and the new options it brought. However, I absolutely detested the plot - the whole Legion of the Chimera thing was like something out of an episode of Power Rangers. Even when I learned to ignore the backstory and take it one area at a time, I still could not get over how bland the encounters felt. Even the more interesting enemies such as the white dragons or the black dragon guardian were exteremely straightforward and required little to no tactical planning. The difficulty curve, too, was way off. The first part with the orcs and the bridge was tedious and extremely unforgiving, requiring many reloads. However, it was not too far after the Ice Temple that my characters suddenly became unbeatable killing machines. I don't really remember feeling challenged by the second half of the game.
Oddly enough, I am currently in the process of playing the first IWD for the first time, and though it shares some of the problems of its successor, I have really enjoyed it so far. I cannot really put my finger on why this is so; the first IWD just feels a lot more - alive, I suppose. And though the plot is really nothing special, it lacks the cringe-factor of the second installment.
The story is pretty disjointed and weak compared to the other 4 games, but I enjoy it all the same. If you did a poll, I would bet my last dollar it would come out as the least favorite Infinity Engine game, but at the same time it is still head and shoulders above most other CRPGs.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/40200/whats-your-favorite-infinity-engine-game/p1
As most of us have said, I'd be eternally grateful if Beamdog dove into this game and Planescape: Torment and completed the circle. At the same time, it's a far bigger headache than BG, and in the end I don't see how IWD2 could possibly be as monetarily lucrative as the games they have already released.
Music: I don't know whether this is a bug, but there doesn't seem to be enough music, particularly for the battles. Often, tracks simply don't play and the only thing you hear during fights is the clanging of swords and the incantations of mages. Contrast this with the BG trilogy, where appropriate battle music would almost always play with the specific track depending on the threat posed by your opponent. This causes the game to lose out somewhat on the feeling of grandiosity and fantasy.
Characters and story: It would be a stretch to claim the first IWD had rich and involving characters but the ones in IWD2 just seem particularly insipid (although there was nothing wrong with their voice acting). The sub-villains of IWD 1 were significantly more colorful and interesting: the psychotic Malavon, condescending Yxunomei, the frost giant Joril, etc.. whereas the ones in IWD2 seem to have even less foreshadowing and less dialogue: Sherincal, Beastmaster assassin from the Hosttower, three priestesses in the Ice Temple with an inexplicable obsession with a minor Aurilite priestess from the previous game.
Gameplay: I had no problem with the 3rd edition rules, which seem an improvement over 2nd ed rules and are quite interesting, but I did have a problem with the game's reliance on ambushes as a game mechanic. Seriously, they could have named the game IWD2: A constant series of ambushes. This wouldn't be a problem in and of itself if it weren't for the fact that IWD2 has this weird and aggravating mechanic where enemies just "pop" into existence right on top of your party instead of approaching from the fog of war. *Spoiler alert* Notable examples are: worg riders being teleported right next to party members if a war drum is struck at the goblin fortress (thus negating party formation), hordes of hook horrors appearing from areas you've already cleared, and half-breed sorceresses appearing out of thin air near the entrance to the third level of Dragon's Eye. It didn't help that mobs seem to have higher HP pools in this game: IWD1 was grindy as is and IWD 2 seems to have raised the grind factor up a notch, which does nothing for the gameplay in my opinion (it just makes battles last longer).
Despite all I've said, IWD 2 is still a reasonably good game (I aim to complete it after all) but it just somehow feels stale in comparison to BG trilogy and IWD 1.
If the game seems too easy, either try making a less optimal party (IE use a monk and Ranger, don't use a brute melee guy, no Cleric of Bane or Lathander, etc) or go nuts and try Heart of Fury mode. If you are familiar with the Epic Level Handbook, HoF mode in IWD2 comes close to making everything a Paragon creature, AKA +20 to everything. They will reliably hit an AC 60 character, and will hit INCREDIBLY hard, meaning even a Barbarian will die from time to time. Those semi-challenging ambushes can become nightmares in HoF, especially the later game ones... even with foreknowledge and a pretty well leveled party you can get steamrolled. It's vastly harder than HoF from IWD1, thats for sure.
The annoying thing about the many minor villains is how little foreshadowing we get for some of them, but most of them are fairly cool. Torak was a tool, but Sherincal is a beast (...unless you can cast Blind on here. heh), and has a pretty nifty attitude. The whole premise of the 'return of the repressed' is a really big trope in the horror tradition, so I think the Legion wasn't bad, the biggest problem is if you miss certain dialogues, the game seems very bland.
I strongly suspect IWD2 doesn't use the actual CR for some monsters, and using a higher difficulty which increases damages mostly leads to tragedy due to archers one shotting, well, anyone with a x3 crit for quite awhile.
Is icewind dale 2 ee is intended ?
I bought IWD: EE last night and I'm already wondering why I did that. Because I thought the original game was really tedious.
Still, it looks very pretty and I love the music when you are in Easthaven at the start.
I didn't like the lack of story and NPC banter; it was just like BG if you rolled all custom characters - sort of bland and empty. But not bad, if that makes sense. Probably would be fun if people really did RP the characters (Multi or something)...
...We can do IWD with the buddy girls, Alora and Jaheira, with some meatshields and Aerie... Wait. We're already doing that in Greyhawk RP...
As for the game itself, I haven't found it terribly gripping, which is a shame because I fell in LOVE with Icewind Dale. Then again, Icewind Dale took a bit to get the ball rolling IMO, so maybe IWD2 is the same. All in all, I love my current party; the feats or whatever confuse the heck out of me, but I can't get over how awesome it is to make literally ANY multiclass you want (with some possible penalties, depending on what you do). Also, while I know it's gotten some flak, I find the point system very fair and easier to accept than rolling a god of a hero (which is justified in the BG series, but not so much IWD).
Its already a polished game in a different feeling engine if that makes sense. It doesn't feel like a Baldurs Gate game, more like an RPG in the style of BG by a different company. I quite enjoyed it but I've never finished it.
I prefer D&D 3.5 rule set than 2E.
I am a bit worried about the game eventually becoming easy though. I've read quite a few posts about the difficulty dropping off later on in the game. As I said above, I really like the difficulty of the game thus far and I want to preserve that throughout the game. I understand that this type of game allows a wide range of play styles which can drastically alter the difficulty. Someone who rests after every fight may find the game becomes too easy and someone who is strictly role playing may find the game too difficult.
What should I be doing to avoid the game becoming too easy? My party consists of 4 of the premade characters (pretty bad!), a decent Fighter I created and a min-maxed rogue I created. I am trying to role play. What I mean by that is no metagaming, resting when only absolutely necessary and if it is sensible, etc. I'm also trying to limit reloads to party wipes or hopeless situations. Should I be able to maintain the difficulty throughout the game with this sort of play style? Are there any spells or similar things I should avoid to maintain this difficulty?
The all dwarf party
(Tends to be 5 dwarfs and a gnome fighter/illusionist, whom I think of as a half-dwarf)
The pilgrimage
(2 Paladins, 1 monk, 1 cleric, 1 swashbuckler, 1 bard)
The defenders of nature
(Undead hunter, archer, druid, fighter/thief, sorceror)
Etc.
IWD2 takes that to a whole new level.
* You can have a party of drow/underdark races.
* You can have a holy party led by a half-angel, and where everyone has paladin, monk or cleric levels. I mean...a paladin/thief? Awesome!
* You can have a real dwarven party without nerfing yourself. A dwarf fighter/bard sounds awesome to add some magical buffing power.
* For a nature themed party, you can have a ranger/thief, which is a great replacement for stalker.
For people like me who can't play unless they have a story in their head, this is great.
It really could benefit from an overhaul, but its a different rule set; I would think unless it was used as a stepping stone towards making a new game (with a presumeably more modern rule-set), it will be lots of hassles for a lower profile game.
I really like the 3e rules, and feel that IWD2 did a decent job in terms of implementation, but those could use some enhancement as well. Stuff like Clerical Domains are a bit unbalanced -- the best ones are generally the ones with passive benefits, since active benefits compete directly with spellcasting. Support for contingent effects might help a lot here. Stuff like:
- Selune's Freedom: 1/day, when you are slowed or rendered helpless, you get Freedom of Movement for 1 round/level (or whatever the normal spell duration is). Automatic trigger, no button-bar space required.
- Selune's Moon Shield: passive +1 to all saves vs. spell effects.
- Ilmater's Pain Touch: When you are below 50% max health, all your melee attacks inflict Pain Touch (Fort save or suffer -2 penalty to Str and Dex for 2 rounds).
- Helm's Shield: +1 to all saves.
- Helm's Watch: +1 to AC, and an additional +2 to AC vs. missile attacks.
- Bane, Mask and Oghma all grant a +1 skill bonus, which is nice at level 1, but isn't really sufficient. It ought to be possible to make those skills class skills, so you can put points into them and get full value. If that's not feasible, then a scaling bonus (+1 at level 1, +2 at level 4, +3 at level 6, etc.) might be sufficient.
Other mechanical tweaks which would improve the game:
- Lingering Song is great, but currently broken. You can stack all 5 songs, and some songs stack with themselves for ungodly bonuses. Make it so triggering Lingering Song erases the current song bonus before applying the new one. You should be able to have any ONE song effect at a time.
- Bards and Rangers ought to get 3 skill points per level, rather than 2.
- Bards would benefit a lot from starting with all 3 dots in Armored Arcana. However, it might not be balanced to give Wizards and Sorcerers such easy access to armor as just taking 1 level of Bard. So, maybe give the 3 points to Bards over several levels: first dot at level 4, then 8, and final dot at 12.
- Paladins of Mystra ought to multi-class freely with Sorcerers, instead of Wizards.
- Make Unarmed Strike a weapon in which only Monks get free proficiency, but otherwise you can put points into it just like any other weapon proficiency. Make it a Finesse weapon, and maybe think about adding a Monk subclass which can multi into Fighter for Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike).
- Make the Monk of the Dark Moon use Charisma for its AC bonus instead of Wisdom -- or, add the feat which provides that benefit (Ascetic Mage).
- Adding an LN-only Monk which can freely multi-class with Druid would encourage adding more than just one Monk level on a Druid.
- Gnomes lose out severely by having Favored Class: Illusionist. Even just having Wizard instead of Illusionist would be an improvement, but something like Bard or Ranger for the Rock Gnome, and Monk for the Svirfneblin, would be even better.
- There ought to be more race-limited feats.
- Half-Elves totally suck. They ought to have access to Human-only feats, and they ought to have access to Elf-only feats as well. That wouldn't totally fix them, but at least they'd be viable.
- Half-Orcs suck as well. They ought to have access to Human-only feats, and they should either get access to some strong Orc specific feats, or they should get +2 to another ability score to balance out their current pain. Perhaps +2 Con. Giving them another minor buff, like the +4 vs. Poison feat for free, would be nice. It's not a feat that matters often enough to ever get taken, but free bonuses are always nice.
- It's frustrating to have characters with different movement speeds. Make the Barbarian feature, the Monk feature, and the Dash feat all give the exact same speed enhancement.
Some other Enhancement ideas:
- Racial Class Levels. Implemented as a race-limited kit for classes which don't have them currently. Either as a bonus for adhering to a Favored Class (Elf Wizard, Dwarf Fighter, Halfling Rogue), or as compensation for going off the reservation and trying something different (Elf Fighter, Gnome Druid, Half-Orc Bard).
- Some Prestige Classes could get worked in like this, as well -- stuff like the Arcane Archer being an Elf and Half-Elf limited subclass of Ranger, for example.
- Fake Prestige Classes like the BG:EE Dragon Disciple would be a lot more viable under 3e rules, especially stuff like the Con increase. Since IWD2 has spontaneous spell conversion, like how Clerics can turn spells into Cure spells, I'd suggest making the DD's breath weapon a spontaneous conversion for Sorcerer spells, rather than a 1/day button.
If you're willing to put in a LOT of work, maybe some (temporary or permanent) joinable NPCs. People like:
- The uninjured solider standing around near the wharf -- Reig's uninjured friend.
- One (or more) of the uninjured people in the Medical Pavilion.
- Maybe one of the injured people, if you manage to heal them -- like the Diviner, perhaps.
- One of the Iron Collar Band mercenaries, if only one of them survives the goblin attack.
- That Ranger whose husband you rescue, and maybe her husband after you rescue him.
- That Druid whose wife you rescue, and maybe his wife after you rescue her.
- Torak the Orc, if your party leader was a female Half-Orc.
- The young Sorceress from the Wandering Village.
- One of the Drow Clerics or Wizards from their encampment. Not the main one, of course; maybe the female Cleric who expresses dismay at her current circumstances.
- The Tiefling Bard or the Human Monk from the monastery (or both).
- One of the ghosts in Lonelywood, or the silent ghost from the shallow grave near Lonelywood. Having an Incorporeal ally might be interesting.