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Most powerful and least powerful classes

SpaceSpace Member Posts: 71
in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
What do you think is the most powerful and least powerful class in Baldur's Gate series?

I think the mage is the most powerful and the thief is the least powerful.

Comments

  • SpaceSpace Member Posts: 71
    Kilivitz said:

    That depends on which part of the saga you are on. AD&D classes have different power curves.

    I think the thief is consistently last in terms of power.
  • YamchaYamcha Member Posts: 486
    Thieves are pretty strong in BG1. No or very few backstab immunes, abundand of thieve weapons, etc.

    Mages that barely can cast some grade 4 spells arent really that strong (yet)

    In BG2, a mage or fighter/mage IS the strongest, and thieves have some troubles later ingame (backstab immunes, true sight, low etw0 )
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    edited March 2015
    If we're not taking multi/dual-class characters into the mix:

    Most powerful

    Start of BG1: Barbarian
    Middle of BG1: Sorcerer
    End of BG1: Sorcerer
    Start of BG2: Sorcerer
    Middle of BG2: Sorcerer
    End of BG2: Sorcerer
    ToB: Sorcerer

    Least powerful

    Start of BG1: Monk
    Middle of BG1: Monk
    End of BG1: Monk
    Start of BG2: Fighter
    Middle of BG2: Fighter
    End of BG2: Fighter
    ToB: Fighter

    Also, there is a wonderful poll here: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/30508/which-is-the-most-difficult-solo-single-class-kit-or-no-kit-for-bg-saga#latest
    Post edited by JuliusBorisov on
  • Fiendish_WarriorFiendish_Warrior Member Posts: 309
    edited March 2015
    In the beginning of the game, I would say Ranger / Paladin are the strongest, especially because of immunities, minimum rolls, etc. At the opposite end of the spectrum would be the Mage and the Druid. Of course, later on, everything changes. In the advanced stages, the Barbarian really takes a step back and the Wizard Slayer suffers a bit as well. It's almost as if, in order to enhance the playability of weaker classes, some of the stronger ones were neglected. I don't want a game-breaking Barbarian or Wizard Slayer, but they could've added some special bonuses or feats at levels 10 or 15 just to make them competitive. As it is, the Inquisitor is so much better than the Wizard Slayer. As soon as a battle starts, I anticipate the first move by casting dispel, rush into close quarters, cast True Seeing, and then smash the crap out of them.

    The class I've struggled to find a use for overall is the Bard. It just seems like anything they can do, some other class can do better, and the lore bonus doesn't interest me much because it doesn't offer anything that Identify or a Priest can't already do. I wish it at least contributed to unique dialogues or more background info in quests.
  • Fiendish_WarriorFiendish_Warrior Member Posts: 309
    Much of this depends on your game-playing experience too. An amateur selecting a Sorcerer and using up a spell slot on Familiar, for example, really cripples things. It also depends on whether you prebuff, solo your campaign, and / or how you compose your party.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    Space said:

    Kilivitz said:

    That depends on which part of the saga you are on. AD&D classes have different power curves.

    I think the thief is consistently last in terms of power.
    Thief is a defensive class. It can avoid traps and hide well , also his armor class tends to be good throughout the game. As he advances, his backstab and trap making skills improve, which turns him into an offensive character.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    edited March 2015
    I'd say Wizard Slayer (Fighter Kit) is the weakest. Its inability to use almost all forms of magical equipment, the narrow focus of its abilities, and general weakness of those abilities makes it mediocre at what it is designed to do best. The fact that I don't even think it can use potions puts it dead last for me in terms of power even at early levels when fighters should be winning.
  • TisamonTisamon Member Posts: 209
    edited March 2015
    The huge popularity of Sorcerer puzzles me, sort of. It is obvious dual- and multi-classed Mages are stronger in BG2. Sorcerer is just a lazy man's pick, I guess: no pre-planning (either strategical--as in where the hell should I get that scroll? or tactical--as in what the hell should I memorize for that Fire Giant encounter?) whatsoever required, everything is built-in.

    My opinion is rather, erm, convoluted. First of all, mind the semantics--what does 'powerful' mean? A class with the highest potential? The most consistently strong class? Also, timing/level window matters a lot (a monk at level 6 is a total pushover, while a monk at level 16 is a force of nature).

    Either way, I can say with a very high degree of certainty that Barbarian and Blackguard are the easiest and the fastest to beat BG1 with (I can do it with either on Insane in 90 minutes, give or take, without resorting to speedrunner's arsenal of tricks). In BG2, it becomes tricky. I think Assassin/Fighter and dual-/multi-classed Mages (e.g.: Kensai/Mage) are at the very top of the list, with Blackguard being a not-so-close second. Sorcerers are nice, sure enough, but please remember these guys are basically nerfed Mages without the all-important ability to dual-/multi-class. They really shine in poverty/item-restricted solo runs, of course, but that's extremely niche, I believe.
  • TisamonTisamon Member Posts: 209
    Oh, and the weakest kits are easy: Wizard Slayer and Beastmaster. Wizard Slayer solo plays like a new challenge mode :wink:
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  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    I always regarded thief as an utility class. I never really worried about how powerful they are.

    Spellcasters are the most powerful classes. As soon as a wizard/sorcerer can cast 3rd level spells the balance of power starts to go entirely in their favor.

    Divine casters are quite powerful as well, although I never regarded them as weapons of mass destruction. Divine spells are better at helping your party or creating problems to your enemies than actually destroying them.

    Anyway, as was said a few times already, most powerful depends on how you define powerful and what the problem that needs solving is.
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    edited March 2015
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  • matricematrice Member Posts: 86
    edited March 2015
    At max level, apart from sorcerer or entropist (which mage can be stronger than that piece of OPness ?)

    I'd say kensai 21 mage 22.
    I'm actually a big fan of dual, and we can do some sweet thing, even with hated class (like ws) if you don't fear to dual late.

    For example, Ws into thief is somthing pretty good aswell. not as physically strong as defender, but much better against magic (easy 100+ magic resist), and with an elemental weapon, you just cancel the first round spell of enemy mage, and then ignore them, as you could stack enough misscast on them that they will never cast an other spell the whole fight long.


    I tend to find druids pretty weak, as the only awesome spells they have (above cleric people) is the plague, which is so slow that you can actually make a whole fight in a corridor, before it reach you.

    Btw, about monks, darkmoon is really big, compare to the 2 other, :
    The ice fists are stacking, and spell such as miror image is just awesome on monks.
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,307
    typo_tilly said:

    Utility! That is the word, yes! ^__^ I am useful! c:


    Also for top thief skills*, requires a thief to have 700 points minimum. (Excluding pick pocketing points.) It's so weird to hear people say that you only need a few levels for a good thief or that thieves max out early on.

    To get 700 points requires
    - 28 levels with a Pure Thief or Swashbuckler (25 points per level)
    - 35 levels with a Bounty Hunter or Shadowdancer (20 points per level)
    - 46 levels with an Assassin (15 points per level)

    Sure, at 20 or 15 points per level, you'll reach top form eventually -- but I'd rather be better for more of the game. And multiclasses are so far behind on points that I wouldn't compare their thief performance to that of pure thieves.

    *Top thief skills
    100 - locks
    100 - disarm traps
    100 - set traps
    100 - detect illusion
    200 - hide (more possible!)
    200 - sneak (more possible!)
    ~~~ - pickpocket (add more if you use this!)

    EDIT - Eheheheh, maybe went too far on that. ^_^' Didn't mean to thread derail to thiefs.

    However, racial bonuses make a dent in these numbers, as does a decent dexterity score. There are also a number of items that will provide a further boost to many of these skills... plus potions.
    And realistically, unless you're a shadow dancer, going to 200 with the two stealth skills is redundant... around 100 each will comfortably get the job done in most circumstances.
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    edited March 2015
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  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    edited March 2015
    @ Abacus

    I agree. I've never needed to have a thief with points like that.

    * Locks and disarm traps? Absolutely you need that.
    * Set traps? I love set traps. Yes, that is great to have.
    * Detect illusions? It's...not that necessary. You need to stop fighting to use it. And true sight is not that hard to get. There is the gem of truesight. The book of infinite spells. Keldorn. Well, any caster NPC really.
    * Hide and Sneak? You don't need to make them 200 each. 100 is just fine. Even if it means that once in awhile you will fail a hide...you usually only need to pass it when it is safe. And there are enough invisibility pots to use when you absolutely must succeed.
    * Pickpocket? There are only a rare few NPCs who you should pickpocket. I tend to take a potion of master thievery when it is needed. Otherwise, it's not that useful a skill.


    My point is, a thief can be quite good with 500ish points allocated. And that is taking into account having a pretty high pickpocket. Even fewer points are needed if you want a thief who is only 'good.'



    @ Matrice

    The thing about monks is that they all have very different functions. You can't play them the same way and expect similar results.

    Vanilla Monks are backstabbers. Hide, sneak up to a mage/enemy and stun them. You want to kill an enemy? Nothing feels quite as good as having your foe just stand there while you beat them down.

    Sun Soul Monks are guerrilla fighters. I've used Rasaad to great effect this way. Sneak up, and nuke everyone. Run, hide and nuke them again. The undead really suffer from his abilities.

    Dark Moon Monks are front liners. They throw up defensive spells, wade in with the warriors, and tear people apart.

    All of them are good. They just require a different playstyle to get the most out of them.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    I think that monks are extremely powerful mid-late BG2 Once they hit level 14 and get that MR they pretty much have no fear (except level drain).

    I would also say that, while sorcerers are good, They don't work on everything. I often find my magic users annoyingly worthless in the Underdark, where even the baby children have like 60% MR. It is extremely rare that you find a thing for which hitting it with big weapons will not kill it.
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    edited March 2015
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  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    typo_tilly said:

    *-)



    Set Trap
    - nill




    You can buy Mercykiller Ring in the Adventurer's Mart from Deidre (the bonus merchant), it's a ring which offers +20% to move silenty, hide in shadows and set traps.


  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352
    Grum said:

    Tresset said:

    I think that monks are extremely powerful mid-late BG2 Once they hit level 14 and get that MR they pretty much have no fear (except level drain).

    I would also say that, while sorcerers are good, They don't work on everything. I often find my magic users annoyingly worthless in the Underdark, where even the baby children have like 60% MR. It is extremely rare that you find a thing for which hitting it with big weapons will not kill it.

    I...tend not to use casters very much. I know that they are powerful and whatnot. But to me, they are support. I'm more than happy with only having Aerie as a caster and everyone else being some form of a fighter.

    I always end up having my casters being there just to do two things: (1) remove the protections of the enemy, (2) buff up my fighters with haste/improved haste, and (3) to once in awhile cast a crowd disperser like comet.

    Big weapons kill everything. Got a dragon problem? Have your mage strip it of protections and go to work with your sword. Now it's just a big lizard. Got a mage problem? Strip him of his protection for a few seconds and fill him with blades/arrows. Got a fighter problem? Out-fighter him!

    Swords for everyone! Rejoice!
    You're my exact opposite. I tend to see fighters as a waste of space. If they can't cast any spells, they are just dead meat I drag along and throw at the sword tips of my enemies, hehe.. ;)

    I prefer all my char's to have some kind of magic, so I use alot of duals/multi's; F/D (Jaheira), C, F/C or F-C (Anomen), bards (haer'dalis), T/I (jan), M/C (Aerie) etc etc and CHARNAME Sorc, F/M, F-M, T/M, F/M/T etc. Sometimes I take on NPC's for their quests, like Korgan, or keep Minsc around for fun, but they are expendable and interchangable. I do like Keldorn though. I wish pala's and rangers got access to more divine spells, challeging F/C's and F/D's even more in effectiveness.

    Spells are fun! Spells for everyone! 6 spells per round! Rejoice!
  • claudiusclaudius Member Posts: 82
    edited March 2015
    "Detect Illusion takes 1 round and frees up a level 5 or 6 spell slot for your casters. You can also hide then use Detect Illusion with your scouting thief under cloak of non-detection."

    I like that idea typo_tilly
    Post edited by claudius on
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    I'd have say that the most powerful classes are rangers and fighter/thieves , since they can hide and backstab, shoot from a distance or evade enemies until they get powerful enough to face enemies directly.

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