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"Maybe this time" [NO-RELOAD THREAD]: "The Tale of TEN THOUSAND Trials"

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Comments

  • Alesia_BHAlesia_BH Member Posts: 408
    edited September 2017

    The slider affects other enemies as well. For example, in BG 2 in the planar sphere, the enemies with the halflings and fish men don't appear on a setting lower than core, but do appear on core. I discovered this quite by accident, as I was looking for the halfling with ogre gauntlets but he never appeared, but eventually discovered my difficulty got lowered by accident

    Interesting. Can anyone replicate this?

    (I'd be pretty surprised if the hungry, hungry halflings didn't appear on Normal)

    Best,

    A.

    JuliusBorisov
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,516
    @Blackraven: Even a instant-casting spell can be interrupted if the damage occurs on the very same frame as the spell. Since the IE games are 30 frames per second, that amounts to a 1/30 chance of disruption if you're damaged in the same second you cast the spell, or 1/180 if you're damaged in the same round.

    The actual probability may be smaller--I'm not sure I've ever noticed it happens without auto-pause--but you can witness the phenomenon by setting auto-pause to on-hit or badly injured, then have the injured character use an instant-casting spell right after triggering the auto-pause. The spell should automatically fail, since it happens on the same frame as the damage.

    It's actually perfectly possible to make spells uninterruptible without using scripts, but only (I'm pretty sure) if they're on-self spells. All you'd have to do is rig the spell so all the effects trigger when the spell begins casting, instead of after casting time. See, spells have two separate fields for their effects: the effects that apply to the target when the spell is finished casting, and the effects that apply to the caster when the spell begins casting. Almost all effects are found in the first field, but in spells like Pocket Plane, they have effects in the second field. In the case of Pocket Plane, those effects remove and then give back the Pocket Plane ability, ensuring that you can cast Pocket Plane an unlimited number of times per day even if it gets disrupted.

    To make Shadowstep truly uninterruptible, go to the spell in Near Infinity, go to "Edit," scroll down and click on "Spell ability 0," and copy all of the effects. Then click "Add," then "Effect," and finally paste the stuff you copied. All of the effects that normally apply when the spell is finished casting will now apply when the spell begins casting, preventing the possibility of disruption.

    Grond0BlackravenAerakarJuliusBorisov
  • Corey_RussellCorey_Russell Member Posts: 694
    Alesia_BH said:

    The slider affects other enemies as well. For example, in BG 2 in the planar sphere, the enemies with the halflings and fish men don't appear on a setting lower than core, but do appear on core. I discovered this quite by accident, as I was looking for the halfling with ogre gauntlets but he never appeared, but eventually discovered my difficulty got lowered by accident

    Interesting. Can anyone replicate this?

    (I'd be pretty surprised if the hungry, hungry halflings didn't appear on Normal)

    Best,

    A.
    Just to be clear, @Alesia_BH it was on A setting lower than core - I do not remember which setting exactly (was a long time ago). So you may well be right about the normal bit.

  • Alesia_BHAlesia_BH Member Posts: 408
    edited September 2017



    Just to be clear, @Alesia_BH it was on A setting lower than core - I do not remember which setting exactly (was a long time ago). So you may well be right about the normal bit.

    Noted. Thank you for sharing, Corey.

    I don't doubt that you observed what you observed, but without addition trials, I can't help but suspect that there may have been another variable at play here, a confound.

    I'd be pretty surprised if the slider could remove the hungry, hungry halflings, even on Novice.

    I've yet to see a controlled experiment demonstrating that enemy number and or type can be changed by the slider in the unmodded adventure (ie- classic installs). I'd be less surprised to hear that it occurs in BG2 EE unmodded, I guess, but, still, I'd like to see some experiments before drawing any conclusions.

    Best,

    A.

  • Alesia_BHAlesia_BH Member Posts: 408
    edited September 2017
    Ok. I just did some quick tests. In EE v1.3, with SCS, I have observed a response to the slider in the Planar Sphere, with repeated trials. On Novice, the hungry, hungry halflings are there -all of them- but Necre and Taibela do not spawn in. On Normal and above, Necre and Taibela do appear.

    If someone could replicate -in an install like mine, or a different one (especially classic unmodded)- that would be cool.

    (In any case, I'm now less confident that your permanent death workaround will function as intended, semiticgod. I've yet to observe a response between Core and Normal, but it seems like a distinct possibility now, at least in EE. Thanks for raising this, Corey!)

    Best,

    A.

    Grond0Corey_RussellJuliusBorisovlolien
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059
    Err... did anyone else run into damage immune Dreadwolves in SoD (in the Bloodbark Grove and a few other places)?

    Basically, like trolls they become damage immune once "killed" and then regenerate and get back up. The only thing I have seen that can kill them is Fireball or Aganazzar's Scorcher (but not fire arrows etc.).

    Given that they give a measly 420XP or something, this cannot be intentional.

    (The only mod I am running is SCS v. 30.)


    --


    Separate question:

    what is the save for a Bombardier Beetles stun?

    My Cavalier got stunned again by one (luckily not dangerous by now with the rest of the party). But he has a Spell Save of -2 and a Death Save of 1. (I have been stacking save equipment like there is no tomorrow.) It seems implausible that Beetles should consistently stun through that.

    Aerakar
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,516
    @Alesia_BH: I don't know if Power Attack or the Balor's slay effect will apply a specialist mage penalty to the saving throw, but it's possible that one of them does and one of them doesn't. Power Attack stuns via an .eff file, while the vorpal strike comes from an .itm file, and they may behave differently. For both file types, though, the spell school is virtually always set to "None."

    If testing confirms that those penalties apply to Power Attack, then all .eff file-based effects will impose the same penalties. But that means very little, since there are basically no .eff file-based effects that offer saves besides Power Attack.

    But if the Balor's slay effect gets those penalties, that's a huge deal, because it means virtually ALL weapons used by any non-specialist enemy will apply the exact same -2 penalty. Everything from Planetar vorpal strikes to Kuo-toa Bolts to spider venom to Celestial Fury to a Cornugon's bleeding effect will get an extra -2 penalty to its saving throw.

    Blackraven
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,516
    @Ygramul: I too have seen damage-immune Dread Wolves in SoD, and had to use energy damage to kill them. Also had SCS installed at the time.

    The Bombardier Beetles apply that stun effect using SPIN128.spl. Looks like it deals 3d4 acid damage, has a 20% chance of deafening the target for 7 rounds, and has a 20% chance of stunning the target for 5 rounds. All effects bypass magic resistance.

    And all effects offer no saving throw whatsoever. Whether you get stunned or not is entirely dependent on a 1d100 roll, with a 20% chance of getting stunned for the whole 5 rounds.

    Guess we'd better rely on the Greenstone Amulet.

    BlackravenEnuhalAerakarJuliusBorisov
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059

    @Ygramul: I too have seen damage-immune Dread Wolves in SoD, and had to use energy damage to kill them. Also had SCS installed at the time.

    The Bombardier Beetles apply that stun effect using SPIN128.spl. Looks like it deals 3d4 acid damage, has a 20% chance of deafening the target for 7 rounds, and has a 20% chance of stunning the target for 5 rounds. All effects bypass magic resistance.

    And all effects offer no saving throw whatsoever. Whether you get stunned or not is entirely dependent on a 1d100 roll, with a 20% chance of getting stunned for the whole 5 rounds.

    Guess we'd better rely on the Greenstone Amulet.

    Wow. Thanks for the insightful reply.

    But, Gah!

    I mean that's just stupid. And I refuse to accept it as good design. A silly beetle should not have an ability that for all intents and purposes is Vorpal to a solo character (which luckily mine wasn't).


    So, to repeat my favorite question these days:
    Does either IR or SR modify this Bombardier Beetle ability? It seems an obvious oversight in need of a fix.

    semiticgod
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,312
    edited September 2017
    Ygramul said:

    I mean that's just stupid. And I refuse to accept it as good design. A silly beetle should not have an ability that for all intents and purposes is Vorpal to a solo character (which luckily mine wasn't).

    There's lots of things that can kill you as a solo character - I'm not sure why you find the beetles so objectionable. They have killed me a couple of times in SoD, but I'm now wary of them and just kill them from range (they need to get close to use their acid spray).
    Ygramul said:

    Okay, here is another potential game ender bug in SoD:

    The 'Webbed' condition made by Gargantuan spider Web projectile is apparently not cured by the Priest Spell 'Remove Paralysis'.

    I don't think that's a bug - web has always been a different condition from hold or paralysis and I wouldn't expect it to be cured by that priest spell.

    Post edited by Grond0 on
    JuliusBorisov
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,312

    Here are all the weapons that do NOT have a spell school of "None":

    Black Blade of Disaster: Necromancy
    BONEDAG.itm (don't know who uses this): Enchantment
    Cause Wounds/Harm: Necromancy
    Energy Blades: Invocation
    Melf's Minute Meteors: Invocation
    Fire Seeds: Invocation
    Ghoul Touch: Necromancy
    Mordenkainen's Sword: Enchanter (for some reason)
    Phantom Blade: Invocation
    Shocking Grasp: Transmutation
    Slay Living: Necromancy
    Sol's Searing Orb: Invocation

    Everything else is a "None," which means if specialist penalties apply to any one of them, they apply to ALL other weapons.

    Testing might also discover if Spell Immunity can block Black Blade of Disaster and so forth.

    I remember someone testing Celestial Fury and confirming that the specialist penalty did apply to using that. I'm not sure if that was in the EE, but doubt if any changes have been made even if it wasn't.

    Spell trap works on weapon hits - making the Black Blade of Disaster an efficient way to implement an infinite spells strategy.

    JuliusBorisov
  • ussnorwayussnorway Member Posts: 292
    Ygramul said:


    The 'Webbed' condition made by Gargantuan spider Web projectile is apparently not cured by the Priest Spell 'Remove Paralysis'.

    not a bug mate

    JuliusBorisovWise_Grimwald
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059
    ussnorway said:

    Ygramul said:


    The 'Webbed' condition made by Gargantuan spider Web projectile is apparently not cured by the Priest Spell 'Remove Paralysis'.

    not a bug mate

    *sigh*

    One should expect the damn Priest spell to have some use. Oh, well, I should have tried casting Free Action on her.


    Anyways. Today I'm proud of my micromanagement ability in that I just survived a 'Hidden Cellar' walking in unprepared to be ambushed by a horde of shadowy things.

    A berserk Minsc and a NPPed charname (Cavalier) carried the day.

    (... with Voghlin on the Bagpipes and Dynaheir at the back vocals.)

    ArctodusWise_Grimwald
  • Alesia_BHAlesia_BH Member Posts: 408
    Condolences, USSNorway.

    Best of luck with Sarah!

    Serg_BlackStriderArctodusJuliusBorisovWise_Grimwald
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,312

    FYI, you should cast Free Action -before- Web Tangle hit you. Casting it -after- is a waste - it will not help. I've lost my first incarnation of Grim Face in the BG Sewers to Giant Spider's Web Tangle this way.

    That's the standard effect for free action - it will prevent effects, but not cancel existing ones. That can be used in your favor, e.g. casting haste on someone and then adding free action will allow them to benefit from both the extra attack and protection from hold etc.

    Corey_RussellJuliusBorisovArctodusWise_Grimwald
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059
    Is this at engine level or can it be patched?

    One just doesn't expect to find such inconsistencies after so many Fixes and Tweaks.
    Although, this is perhaps an artifact of the EE?

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