Question: Is Whirlwind or Critical Strike a better option? I'm leaning towards the former, since the slow Firetooth seems like the most late-game-viable weapon.
I have the Ring of Gaxx, but the short duration of that haste makes it rather difficult to combine it with the CS. There's a nice speed amulet much later in ToB, but that's only one use/day. Maybe I split my HLA investment and take 2-3 CS and the rest go to GWW. Maybe a few Hardiness too.
It should be noted that CS can be better than GWW against some enemies, namely those you can actually crit (5 APR with x2 damage and 100% hit > 10 APR with x1 damage and <100% hit) and those you have a very low chance of hitting (<50%). This is of course due to the fact that even if you can't do critical damage, a natural 20 will always be a hit regardless of enemy AC/your THAC0.
@MalacPok Are you going to pick up the Bracers of Blinding Strike?
Yeah, I already picked them up. Just killed Firkraag using a combination of Improved Haste, Simulacrum and Called Shot. Right now I'm on level 27 pushing chapter 6. Things are very easy at this point.
I have to admit that I was wrong on several accounts: the archer is a powerful kit in itself and the Gesen short bow is not only a great weapon, but also fun.
If there's one advice solo archers should follow, it is to bring one potion of Fire Giants Strength to Spellhold. It will come very handy when you find that LOCKED chest containing a piece of useful string. I had no way to open it and shamefully resorted to adding the potion via the console. Two hours later, while exploring the Underdark, I decided to reload an earlier savegame and restart the whole journey again. At least this way I can feel less like a cheat while I'm using my awesome Gesen bow...
I did that once with the "Generic Archer" mod, which makes it a fighter instead of a ranger. It was quite powerful indeed, though of course missing the divine spells.
@MalacPok@Lord_Tansheron: The Generic Archer kit is quite fun, and offers many more possibilities than the vanilla Archer. It comes with the Tactics mod, but there might also be another source I don't know about.
@semiticgod Yes, Tactics, that's the one I got it from. Probably still works, I suppose, haven't tried in a while.
I like getting creative with class combinations that are a bit outside the usual rules, but I think the Archer->Mage might have been a tad bit too good. Which is funny I suppose considering things like Kensai->Mage, which are likely even better but completely "legal".
I think the main issue is that ranged combat can get a bit boring. You really mostly just sit there right-click attacking things until they die. Little maneuvering, little use of other abilities, barely any potion use etc. Adding some spice with a dual lass can help make things a bit more engaging.
I did that once with the "Generic Archer" mod, which makes it a fighter instead of a ranger. It was quite powerful indeed, though of course missing the divine spells.
I prefer staying within the limits of the "standard" game. With the proper mods everything is possible, even a monk\sorcerer\jester multiclass.
What I wonder about is a plain fighter with GM in slings (for Everard) dualed to Mage at lvl 13. It could easily solo the game, being a mage and all, but it's questionable whether the sling part would add a more long-term fun to gameplay. At a certain point it could become pointless, due to having access to better high level stuff.
Slings is something that I really want to test more. They have low APR, but they gain STR bonuses - which can be VERY significant. The low APR might mean that you need to rely on Whirlwind more, though. Hm...
The idea of a ranged F->M is also intriguing. Certainly any type of F/M hybrid will have no trouble soloing the game, but I do wonder how efficient one could make a ranged F/M combo. There's bound to be some potential there.
Just finished the game with my solo archer. The last battle was a bit difficult but a decent inventory helped a lot. Two scrolls of Magic Protection came very handy to avoid a lot of nasty spells.
Some conclusions that may be useful for other people embarking on this kind of solitary journey:
- The Vhailor's helm is your best friend. - The Gesen short bow is awesome. - In the most important cases (like the last battle) the Greater Whirlwind is more useful than Critical Strike. During the regular adventuring-time both of them rule, but when the Big Boss is immune to criticals, the extra speed is just better. In the last few minutes I wished I had more GWWs. 9 were barely enough.
GWW is handy for solo archers vs enemies that can close to melee range without being pincushioned to death. An archer is not much worse with a big two-hander than any Ranger or Paladin, you lose out what, 2 damage per hit due to not specializing? Not nothing really, but 10 apr with decent damage per hit and warrior THAC0 will clear out even very tough enemies, should missile weapons not work.
Archers DO get a few spells as rangers... not entirely useless, and stealth is never a bad tool to have. Also, Strongarm is a great bow in early SoA if you imported an Illusionist/Mage who has less bonus' to damage (making Tuigan less amazing), but it IS handy vs enemies requiring specialty ammo you do not want to miss with, or would rather do more damage with per arrow vs shooting more arrows. F/I or an elven F/M can do pretty well with Strongarm, assuming you can draw it. For an actual Archer though, apr is very key, so Tuigan has a leg up there.
Also, why so little sling and throwing dagger love around here? Throwing Daggers cap at +3, but thats a damn sexy +3 dagger, and slings are just insane for damage at high levels. Also, the hilarity of using GWW with a sling...
@DreadKhan Slings are definitely on my radar for testing. Don't like to rely exclusively on HLAs though, and still fiddling with the best way to make them work (i.e. the best class combo to use them with).
Well, an easy option is a Fighter/Cleric, since you can get your STR maxed out relatively early, or at least really high, and you still get a reasonable APR, though not a great one.
I expect you'll end up prefering GWW over CS with slings, as APR is going to be low, but I haven't run numbers other than checking how much damage they could do to see if they were competetive, and boy were they ever hard hitters.
An Archer will probably be stuck at 19 str most of SoA, and 22 after getting the best belt, so they'll still hit hard, but +14 damage is such a huge number.
Throwing daggers were really sick on a Kensai, back when I was young and the word 'sick' meant 'really gnarly!', and was mega-cool to say. I feel old.
While my archer was powerful, as far ranged fighting goes, it does not compete with my new half-orcish kensai, even though it wasn't created with ranged fighting in mind. I just wanted a character who will dual-wield two of my favorite weapons> the Blackrazor and the Celestial Fury. A throwing axe was picked up to deal with a few cases, where ranged fighting was unavoidable. Only two pips went into axe proficiency, mainly for the Axe of Unyielding. Still, I ended up with a powerful ranged fighter:
Great damage and thac0, combined with Greater Whirlwind to max out speed.
Throwing daggers could have worked too, but axes are so much more hardcore. Plus, it is easy to find a decent returning axe early on (Hangard's). Of course, both could be maxed out easily. As a huge bonus, and compared to archers, the kensai can easily switch into melee mode, when it's required.
The idea of a ranged F->M is also intriguing. Certainly any type of F/M hybrid will have no trouble soloing the game, but I do wonder how efficient one could make a ranged F/M combo. There's bound to be some potential there.
I skimmed through this thread (TLDR), but I noticed this part. I'm playing a F(7)->Mage currently, and she's very good so far. She's the party's main arcane caster, but she's rocking 4 APR unbuffed with the army schythe and GM in xbows. She has qstaff as supporting melee weapon. She doesn't have the best THAC0, but good enough to get alot of hits in and vs enemy mages she toss a spell in the beginning of the round and then follows up with a massive volley of bolts of lightning. She really is a jack of all trades and can take any role in the party. I like this since it lets me swap NPC's whenever I want (as long as I keep Jan/Imoen around).
If I would have rerolled her, I think I might have pushed her fighter levels to 9 though. More HP would be good since I don't "max HP on level" and she only has 16 CON. She would be equally good (or better) with a shortbow ofc but since few NPC's are great with xbows but Imoen is best used with tuigan/gesen, I choose xbow for my CHARNAME. I'm one of those who love to have one/two specialized ranged, and not just using melee with some "support volleys".
Comments
If there's one advice solo archers should follow, it is to bring one potion of Fire Giants Strength to Spellhold. It will come very handy when you find that LOCKED chest containing a piece of useful string. I had no way to open it and shamefully resorted to adding the potion via the console. Two hours later, while exploring the Underdark, I decided to reload an earlier savegame and restart the whole journey again. At least this way I can feel less like a cheat while I'm using my awesome Gesen bow...
Only if you could dual the archer to a mage...
I tried out an Archer/Thief in a failed no-reload run here: (http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/39162/solo-no-reload-archer-thief-scs2-run#latest). Also did a lot with the vanilla kit, too, both as a solo and as a full party of Archers.
I like getting creative with class combinations that are a bit outside the usual rules, but I think the Archer->Mage might have been a tad bit too good. Which is funny I suppose considering things like Kensai->Mage, which are likely even better but completely "legal".
I think the main issue is that ranged combat can get a bit boring. You really mostly just sit there right-click attacking things until they die. Little maneuvering, little use of other abilities, barely any potion use etc. Adding some spice with a dual lass can help make things a bit more engaging.
What I wonder about is a plain fighter with GM in slings (for Everard) dualed to Mage at lvl 13. It could easily solo the game, being a mage and all, but it's questionable whether the sling part would add a more long-term fun to gameplay. At a certain point it could become pointless, due to having access to better high level stuff.
(Hm... maybe a solo Jester?)
The idea of a ranged F->M is also intriguing. Certainly any type of F/M hybrid will have no trouble soloing the game, but I do wonder how efficient one could make a ranged F/M combo. There's bound to be some potential there.
Some conclusions that may be useful for other people embarking on this kind of solitary journey:
- The Vhailor's helm is your best friend.
- The Gesen short bow is awesome.
- In the most important cases (like the last battle) the Greater Whirlwind is more useful than Critical Strike. During the regular adventuring-time both of them rule, but when the Big Boss is immune to criticals, the extra speed is just better. In the last few minutes I wished I had more GWWs. 9 were barely enough.
Archers DO get a few spells as rangers... not entirely useless, and stealth is never a bad tool to have. Also, Strongarm is a great bow in early SoA if you imported an Illusionist/Mage who has less bonus' to damage (making Tuigan less amazing), but it IS handy vs enemies requiring specialty ammo you do not want to miss with, or would rather do more damage with per arrow vs shooting more arrows. F/I or an elven F/M can do pretty well with Strongarm, assuming you can draw it. For an actual Archer though, apr is very key, so Tuigan has a leg up there.
Also, why so little sling and throwing dagger love around here? Throwing Daggers cap at +3, but thats a damn sexy +3 dagger, and slings are just insane for damage at high levels. Also, the hilarity of using GWW with a sling...
I expect you'll end up prefering GWW over CS with slings, as APR is going to be low, but I haven't run numbers other than checking how much damage they could do to see if they were competetive, and boy were they ever hard hitters.
An Archer will probably be stuck at 19 str most of SoA, and 22 after getting the best belt, so they'll still hit hard, but +14 damage is such a huge number.
Throwing daggers were really sick on a Kensai, back when I was young and the word 'sick' meant 'really gnarly!', and was mega-cool to say. I feel old.
Great damage and thac0, combined with Greater Whirlwind to max out speed.
Throwing daggers could have worked too, but axes are so much more hardcore.
If I would have rerolled her, I think I might have pushed her fighter levels to 9 though. More HP would be good since I don't "max HP on level" and she only has 16 CON. She would be equally good (or better) with a shortbow ofc but since few NPC's are great with xbows but Imoen is best used with tuigan/gesen, I choose xbow for my CHARNAME. I'm one of those who love to have one/two specialized ranged, and not just using melee with some "support volleys".
I can recommend playing one.