Sorcerer or Dragon Disciple?

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Aerich

Vote sorceror. That's assuming you will give it 16 Con at creation, and will have no more than one more arcane caster in the party.

Losing a spell per level is quite significant. From the damage point of view, if those were damage spells, it outweighs what the dragon disciple brings to the table.

However, for RP reasons, the dragon disciple can be far cooler.

wubble

they're both awesome and it won't make much of a difference either way

elminster

Its Icewind Dale so you can't cast more than a spell a round. Making the loss of a single spell at each level not all that significant.

Especially once you get Glitterdust (which is very effective outside of Heart of Winter), Slow, and Invisibility 10 radius (which lets you rest with safety and not have to worry about how many spells you have left).

God

Let it be a half-orc dragon disciple with an INT of 1!

Lord_Tansheron

Spells is the only reason to even roll a Sorcerer. What would I want to breathe on people for?

Archaos

Lord_Tansheron said:

Spells is the only reason to even roll a Sorcerer. What would I want to breathe on people for?

Flavor, new mechanics, doing stuff like raising your Fire Resistance very high and blast yourself with fireballs, taking no damage.
The Dragon Disciple is more than just a Sorcerer that breathes fire.

It's like saying "The mage is all about spell variety, why would I want to specialize?"
Only in this case, the Dragon Disciple actually gets class features.

SharGuidesMyHand

I love the DD from an RP perspective, but I don't feel that they're as well suited for IWD as a sorc - mainly because their fire-breathing (which you get as a trade-off for one less spell per lev) is somewhat difficult to use in the narrow dungeon hallways where you spend most of your time in IWD.

Zyzzogeton

The only time I found 6 spells per level per day remotely useful is if I want my Sorc's Image to cast Protection Spells on an entire party of 6, which isn't even all that necessary. And more attempts at getting the full rest option with the Wish Spell (per Image) Since Images can't simply be killed and recast, you need to wait out the duration which can be annoyingly long at high levels.

It's convenient but not even a decent advantage at best.

Of course neither are the DD's advantages remotely decent either.

So it doesn't matter.

doing stuff like raising your Fire Resistance very high and blast yourself with fireballs, taking no damage.

Casting AoE spells centered on a party member that's immune to them is a fairly common tactic. And works much better if the person that was immune to fire had really good AC, really high HP, and a few other resistances. So Protection from Fire on another party members already does this and potentially better because that person can draw more enemies to them with less risk of dying or the Sorc having their spellcasting interrupted by damage.

booinyoureyes

elminster said:

Invisibility 10 radius (which lets you rest with safety and not have to worry about how many spells you have left).

Just when you thought you knew everything

JuliusBorisov

I see IWDEE as a chance to try all the classes/kits "I've always wanted to use but for one reason or another haven't been ready to try".

A Dragon Disciple is one of these characters. My feeling regarding BG2 magic, taking into account the SCS mod, is so that one additional spell matters. So for IWDEE I've gone for a DD. And it's been completely fine.

Besides, the fire looks especially good in snowy locations:)

As an option, you can also include a bard into a party, so you won't have any shortage of spells. You can even take a bard instead of a sorcerer/ a dragon disciple.

JuliusBorisov

booinyoureyes said:

elminster said:

Invisibility 10 radius (which lets you rest with safety and not have to worry about how many spells you have left).

Just when you thought you knew everything

Wisdom is only possessed by the learned.

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elminster

subtledoctor said:

I've never played a DrD. Is their fire breath party-friendly?

Nope.

hispls

Archaos said:

raising your Fire Resistance very high and blast yourself with fireballs, taking no damage.

Plus some sunfires.... My DD became crazy powerful late game when he got 100% fire resistance + all the spells at that level. Breath weapon was never particularly great but lobbing fireballs at yourself when you're being swarmed is really cash.

Zyzzogeton

Something any one can get with Protection from Fire.

You'd want the frontline Fighters with Protection from Fire anyway. Since Meteor Shower and Incendiary Cloud can both damage enemies that they're supposed to be up close to as well as serve as constant healing

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DreadKhan

The annoying thing about DrD is that Fire Resistance is the easiest to pump as a general rule, and constitution bonus only matters if you're choosing to start with 14 constitution, which is really unnecessary.

I'd say DrD is more cool, but Sorcerer is stronger, and still pretty cool. You probably won't strictly need the extra spells very often, but that Breath Weapon isn't exactly a good trade-off.

JuliusBorisov

thespace said:

I appreciate everyone's input. I ended up with a DD. I've enjoyed it enough to start BG1EE over with a DD as well. An elf. Starting with a 17 CON, so as to make her way towards having a 20 in BG2EE (19 by end of BG1), so as to be a self regenerating atomic bomb

Glad that you've followed the less popular (as the poll shows) option:)

Fandraxx

I just like walking around thinking im a dragon.

Merina

Aaaaaaa!

Thanks to this poll ... I feel increasingly unable to resist playing a Dragon Disciple for the first time.

The idea has crept into my head and is hard to get rid of. Reading the pros and cons in the class description I've never felt it worthwhile to play a DrD instead of a different wizard, ... but now there's growing interest. No particular reason like considering it "better" or anything like that. Just the pictures in my head, guess it's time for some more experiments ... *g*

Nimran

No silver dragon disciple, so yeh, sorcerer gets my vote.

elminster

@Nimran the problem with a silver dragon is that without giving them something that would make them quite a bit different than the existing Dragon Disciple kit there really isn't much available to make it unique over say a White Dragon Disciple (which also do cold damage and are immune to cold).

Grum

Dragon Disciple only really shines in the BGEE black out series. There the fights happen quickly enough that you probably won't go through all your spells normally, and the enemy try to rush casters. So the added survivability is ace, as it a good instant cast AOE.

For long dungeon crawls, such as in icewind dale, I'd go sorceror.

I do wonder though if there is any extra dialogue with the white dragon or the tribe of the wyrm though.

It'd also be interesting to have two (2!) DrD in one party. Both walk up and start fireballing, breathing, etc away. Both would be immune to fire, meaning that your enemies would quickly burn.

Throw in a sunsoul monk for front line defense and extra hilarity. If he has protection from fire and fire shield up, he'd be loving it there.

Zyzzogeton

It'd also be interesting to have two (2!) DrD in one party. Both walk up and start fireballing, breathing, etc away. Both would be immune to fire, meaning that your enemies would quickly burn.

And two Sorcerers with Protection From Fire can't accomplish this because...?

Grum

Zyzzogeton said:

It'd also be interesting to have two (2!) DrD in one party. Both walk up and start fireballing, breathing, etc away. Both would be immune to fire, meaning that your enemies would quickly burn.

And two Sorcerers with Protection From Fire can't accomplish this because...?

Well that would "only" be 80% fire resistance. DrD get 100%. Leaving aside items for the moment They are more survivable, and as they'd be wading in to cast spells that matters. Sure, both can get stone skins, mirror image, etc...but with better AC their defenses will last longer.

Plus, the theme! I mean, come on. If you are going for fiery death on an industrial scale, then that should count for something.

Zyzzogeton

Protection from Fire grants 100% in IWD.

Also if you're firing off Meteor Shower Incendiary Clouds, what enemy is going to survive to eat through Stone Skin and Mirror Image and contingency Stone Skin/Mirror Image?

Wowo

Zyzzogeton said:

Protection from Fire grants 100% in IWD.

Also if you're firing off Meteor Shower Incendiary Clouds, what enemy is going to survive to eat through Stone Skin and Mirror Image and contingency Stone Skin/Mirror Image?

DrD combines protection from fire with inherent resistance to produce healing from fire effects. Extra HP helps too.

Zyzzogeton

Would matter if Mage protections didn't ensure they don't get damaged in fhe first place.

Merina

Although I've voted for Sorcerer based on what the manual tells, ... so far, the DrD is fun to play.

I've dumped my last party-of-six at the beginning of HoW to replace the Sorcerer, the Swashbuckler and the dual-wielding Berserker. That made room for a DrD, a Blackguard and a dual-classed Thief 3/Fighter.

In IWDEE, when playing only at hard difficulty with a party-of-six, a Sorcerer doesn't reach level 16 without playing HoW early, as would be needed to learn lvl 8 spells. The only option would be to visit Hjollder before starting endgame stuff. So, for the extra XP it must be insane level or a smaller party.

In the Forgotten Temple, instead of waiting for the others to do the dirty work, the DrD has invited the large bunch of Verbegs to a barbecue. Worthwhile! ... Too bad that doesn't involve protection from fire yet, ... and fireball is not available yet. It's only roughly above 55,000 XP per character before Dragon's Eye. I don't even remember when I've learnt Burning Hands the last time.

Zyzzogeton

And Sorcerer's can't do that with Snilloc's Snowball Storm?