Whats your best powergaming party for this game?
Sloty
Member Posts: 113
I want a party between 4 and 6 members. It should be very strong from the beginning and late into HoF mode.
Which classes,Kits,Multiclasses and stat distribution would you suggest me?
Please just tell me the best party you ever made for this game!
If someone can suggest me the best sorcerer spell list, that would be great too!
tia, Sloty
Which classes,Kits,Multiclasses and stat distribution would you suggest me?
Please just tell me the best party you ever made for this game!
If someone can suggest me the best sorcerer spell list, that would be great too!
tia, Sloty
0
Comments
Berserker Mage or FMT
Berserker Druid
Archer or Swashbuckler Fighter
Sorc
Skald
Berserker because ranged weapons are great, low risk early on. Archer because there's enough ammunition in this game for one dedicated bow user, the Swashbuckler Fighter mainly uses bows as well.
Grease
Web
Stinking Cloud
Invisibility 10' Radius
Skull Trap
Remove/Dispel Magic
Protection from Fire
Emotion Courage
Emotion Hope
Cloudkill
Protection from Acid
Death Fog
Improved Haste
Protection from Magical Energy
Project Image
Mass Invisibility
Acid Storm
Incendiary Cloud
Wilting
Wish
Meteor Storm
I really want the Skald, Sorcerer and an Avenger.
Which classes/races would you take for the rest of the party?
Is a single class cleric strong enough(with kit perhaps) or should I take a fighter/cleric?
Only class I would dual would be a kensai/thief. At which level would you dual to thief with him?
As a comment on Zyzzogeton's party, that is what I would consider to be a powergamer's party, down to the non-inclusion of a thief if you go with an Archer. If you have not played through IWD before, however, I would strongly recommend that you use a thief for finding and removing traps.
I would highly recommend a dc cleric (from fighter or berzerker), but if you can't bring yourself to that, take a multiclass dwarf or orc.
I am not in favour of a kensai/thief. At higher levels (HoF mode), any melee character requires spell buffs, preferably self-buffs, for best survivability. A thief does not get those. So a kensai/thief build will be too fragile to be an optimal frontliner, but will not have any ranged capability to fall back on. It's a bad build, in my eyes. All of my fighter/thief types have a priority for ranged combat. A mc fighter/thief (orc, gnome, halfling, elf are all acceptable) is my preferred way to go, if you don't want a triple class F/M/T, so that thieving skills are available at all points of the game - because traps irritate me.
So in addition to Skald, Sorceror, and Avenger, I would take:
1) dc or mc Fighter (or Berzerker)/Cleric
2) mc Fighter/Thief
3) Fighter/Mage of some description
I do also recommend a F/D multi or dual as opposed to the single class Avenger. Your single classes will max out in a HoF game and not be able to progress further. Also, additional APR, whether melee or ranged, gain significant benefits from having a Skald in the party.
Do you think there are enough spell scrolls for a skald AND another mage character(be it F/M or whatever)?
But I dont understand why a f/t multiclass is better than a kensai/thief if I want to use him as a frontliner?
Only because of the measly ac that you get from leather armor? A K/T could have grandmastery in one weapon plus be good in dual-wielding and also get some ac boost from the druid with barkskin?
The Avenger's arcane spells are nice to have. Another early Web ... but later on this extra arcane power felt a bit superfluous due to the Skald being able to help with arcane magic, too, and the druid would focus on his unique spells. Early on I needed a druid also for the healing ... to wait for a dual-class Berserker->Cleric. Classes and races alone won't help you much. Spell choices perhaps, ... but more helpful would be to play the game till end a first time and learn what spells and tactics may work for you also against much stronger enemies. The changes introduced by HoF are drastic. Strong enough for what? A dual-class warrior priest gives access to weapons grand mastery ... regardless of whether the warrior becomes a priest at level 2 or later. Level 3 is a safe choice for gaining experience with a dual-class Fi/Cl. Decide yourself how to Find Traps and whether to Disarm Traps during the game. You need a plan.
I want to import some leveled chars for hof.
All my dual class suggestions can be replaced with the appropriate multi class.
Skalds don't need to learn spells. If if matters, the Fighter/Mage dual/multi gets all the self buff spells first while the Skald gets everything else.
If you're importing I'd just go with filling slots with 1 Skald + FMC's and maybe an FMT. Since you could just have one FMC learn every Arcane spell then just copy paste that character multiple times.
Also the Sorcerer can carry nearly any party through HoF. I had one carry an Inquisitor, Beastmaster, Monk, Assassin, Blade team. So if you're just looking for something to fill up the resr of your party, it doesn't matter since you have a Sorc. Just include a Thief in there somewhere.
You don't "need" to have a single classed cleric. I find that the increased damage output from a dc or mc F/Cl more than offsets the slower spell progression. Also, note that a dc will at times have a higher cleric level than a mc with the same experience. I would never take a single classed cleric unless doing a single playthrough on Core difficulty. For HoF you want warrior levels to help you pound through, and also to suck up more of the experience you will get so your character maxes out later.
Axes or Long Swords is a safe choice for a fighter. Enough good weapons to be found there. Warhammers or Flails as blunt weapons.
Two-handed swords (with two-handed weapons skill) is safer than waiting to find a random two-handed halberd or axe. There's a good spear, too, which is not a random find. A +4 two-handed axe is a safe find, too.
If you want to dual-wield weapons, those that give an extra attack per round are randomly dropped. In my last game I've not found a single one of those. My Thief 3->Fighter was at longbow+++++ already and then proceeded to scimitars+++++ instead of spending two points on dual-wielding. Without the extra attack from an offhand weapon I found it uninteresting to go dual-wielding.
F/T - gnome, halfling, elf, orc
Also Halflings make inferior F/T's 17 STR means then can't use Composite Longbows early on. Their Slings deal less damage without Exceptional Strength. Dwarves make better picks if you want shorty saves. Yes less DEX but you'll get to 100 Find Trap and Pick Pocket really quickly anyway.
Cool tip btw, if all your 'warrior' types have the same alignment, Righteous Wrath is a terrific spell. Especially if you aren't at 5 apr with everyone, ie a warrior with a shield to help tank, your cleric, rogues, etc.
If you want a sturdy tank, a Dwarven Defender (or a Half-orc Barbarian even) that uses a shield that boosts damage reduction. You will be incredibly durable, and the game has tenacious AI that should swarm him primarily if he's out front. There is even additional gear to boost your DR, weapons and the odd item.
CT is fine as a halfer mostly, since clerics can buff str really, really easily, but you will be finished spending points awful quick. Gnome is a nice happy medium, though HO will hit harder early on, the gnome and halfer especially have boosted saves, which is helpful. The big pain is gear iirc, CT have crummy weapon choices if they want to backstab. There is a really decent club in HoW, but that is a ways off... until then, BS will be nerfed. Note, a gnome or halfer can use an awesome helm from pretty early, enough to make them a superb off tank if they switch to heavy armour.
Halfers as FT have one decent benefit, a certain helm. However, a dualed to fighter thief will be MUCH more powerful, as long as he can use decent gear. 17 str is a pain I agree, especially in a game where boosting str isn't easy. You'd be reliant on the mage Strength spell, and you'll have crazy pickpocket ranks after maxing everything else! Honestly, a Swasbuckler pure is probably a better fighter late game, provided you give him speed weapons; which has an opportunity cost of course. Go Halforc for the Swash if you do that, 19 str is awesome for him.
Skald -- Crossbow
FMT -- Longsword, Longbow, Katana
FMC -- Flail, Sling, Hammer
Berserker 7 -> Cleric -- Flail, Sling, Mace
Kensei 9 -> Druid -- Scimitar, Club
Kensei 9 -> Mage -- Axe, Bastard Sword
Played on HoF from level 1.
Kensais will be fairly pointless the Prologue, which is pretty much one of the toughest portions of a HoF game.
The Skald should spend a vast majority of his time singing and only weigh in with a spell occasionally. Primary spells for him are dispel and remove magic and any other situational spells that are only needed in emergencies or short cast time spells which can be cast without interrupting the song.
The FMC is the best tank and best user of metamagics courtesy of the combination of arcane and divine spells so is a natural candidate for stoneskin and other defensive spells.
The FMT is the highest damage dealer once Mislead is available. Until then can focus on stealth tactics and ranged combat.
The Kensei 9-> Mage becomes the primary Mage eventually and gets first pick of spells. Stoneskin and other defensive spells are a given.
Remember too that the FMT and FMC will probably be heavy armour users for quite a while to give a solid front line and in this way are directly comparable to various FT and FC builds but trade very minor bonuses like +saves for actual Mage spells, how can being short compete with that?
Kensei's are pretty useless in the prologue but are fine as kite bait while the rest of the party uses ranged weapons. Importantly, once past the prologue kensei contributes so much in terms of raw damage to cut through the many fights of IWD.
I can see the value of an Archer in a perfect party but honestly I can see that I'd give up any of the 6 characters for it but I am mildly biased towards melee combat. In terms of damage output an archer really doesn't compare to the 25 strength divine monsters or the backstabbing FMT or the usefulness of a high level Mage and Druid caster.
I don't see the value of Sorcerer. It's really not needed and everyone should contribute significant damage towards destroying trash.
You don't start off HoF doing melee. Especially in a party where all the spellcasters progress incredibly slow except for the Skald. The time this party is finally kicking in is when everry party is already breezing through the game. So sacrifice the early game where most of the challenge of HoF lies to pump up the endgame where nearly no enemy can withstand a party that's accumulated a ton of equipment, spells and levels?
Archers speed up that initial portion of the game while the Fighter spellcasters are still collecting their armor and spells. And they don't lag behind so far in the endgame.
Also I'm not sure how a Fighter with Cleric protection still needs Stone Skin. Armor of Faith and the numerous damage resistance gear make it already practically unkillable unless you lack damage output. Which your party shouldn't by the endgame. Plus it can regen ridiculous amounts of HP per round. I mean really, Stone Skin? Slow down the progression of Cleric spells for unnecessary protection?
Powergaming isn't about getting max DPS at the end of the game it's about the whole game. Especially in one where the early game is notably harder than most of the end game save for a few fights.
Therefore, the "best" party that I could offer seems to strike a balance between the amazingly overpowered GM in IWD and the demands of the early game.
Fact is, kensei casters with ironskins or stoneskins are literally the bomb and will decimate the game from the moment their dual is complete which is very quickly for the Druid dual. On the other hand the Kensei/Mage is the final inclusion of the 6 and could be traded for an Archer or a Sorcerer but then there would no one to use the Axe of the Minotaur Lord or that sick bastard sword which would be a real shame. Furthermore, if Archer was the choice there would be no easy path to timely 9th level Mage spells unless the party was restructured. The FMT could be traded for a longsword of action wielding swashbuckler but the Mislead cheese is just too good to give up.
Let's break it down a little more. In the ideal party there will be 2 warrior clerics wielding a Fast Flail and a stunning weapon each for the absolute carnage that they offer. There will be a Skald for damage and AC. The last 3 slots are open to debate.
There is an entire thread on Druid already but it is auto include for me for the wonderful bag of tricks including water elemental form and spike stones, when these aren't needed Ironskins and kensei damage keep contributions high.
Thief is another debateable one but I just can't do a dungeon crawl without a thief, it wouldn't feel right. The two best options IMO are Swashbuckler 10 -> Mage and FMT and having played bother in HoF I can definitely say that the FMT is my favourite.
The final slot for me is the Kensei/Mage and honestly the Axe of the Minotaur is enough. Not having a character in the party designed to use this item is such a wasted opportunity for brutality.
Low level the party is fine with 4 ranged characters and 2 baiters though with 3 characters able to wear heavy armour and the bonus AC from Skald by the Vale of Shadows the party can transition to melee tactics in most situations (before that the berserker can still tank with rage).
How does an Archer remove the other slots that you can put a Fighter Mage in?
Also enemies in the early game can kill a character with -4AC and Sword and Shield even with 2 Webs slowing them down.
Heck, drop 4 Webs then. Unless something is immune, it'll be snagged. First level characters are incredibly squishy in early HoF mode, and Berserker offers almost as much firepower as a kensai will ever have from first level, is way tougher, and can wear armour. 1 Kensai I can see, but 2 might be a bit much to survive.
But a Dwarven Fighter Cleric with 19 CON does up dying anyway in the last part of chapter one since only Stinking Cloud works on the Veerbogs.
How do you play such a party with HoF enabled? With "Heal on Rest" turned on? Or running away endlessly? Not starting at level 1?
After that just head straight to Kuldahar, do quests and kill the Shades/Yetis in the valley until the Berserker Cleric (dual at 7) gains Animate dead. Then go back to the pass to clean it up.
With no healer in the party, there's only the normal regeneration when resting. It would be necessary to click the Rest button many times to "heal" the party ... to undo any damage from a lucky shot by an enemy archer.