There's no point using magical arrows to hit stuff that isn't immune to normal weapons. It's only +3 damage per attack. Which is pretty irrelevant compared to all the damage bonuses Archers put on a normal Arrow and as well as all the buffs.
Once you get an ammo belt and a bag of holding, the issue of not having enough normal Arrows is non existant.
As for the pure druid, for the cost of a few thousand XP (Level 3 Fighter Dual) and pretty mediocre Kit bonuses, a Druid gets Grandmastery. So there's really no point going with a Druid kit in a powergaming party unless it's one of the restrictions.
My thoughts on a party set up having just knocked over the main campaign and expansions on Insane Difficulty:
My Bard was level 30 well before I finished the main game,
That would be 4,400,000 XP ... compared with the 2,345,xxx XP my insane party had reached when activating the stairs in the Fallen Temple ... and I don't think I've missed any important tasks for extra XP such as the arboretum.
Here's what I'd plan on running for raw Power in HoF:
Human Dual Berserker 13/Cleric Human Dual Berserker 13/Mage Half Orc Fighter/Cleric Half Elf Ranger/Cleric Gnome Fighter/Illusionist Elf Fighter/Thief/Mage
What's your reason for not replacing the Fighter/Cleric with a Fighter/Druid? Why three Clerics? A Fighter/Druid means early access to very helpful summons and area damage spells.
Berserker 13->Cleric is a very long time before the primary class will be available again. 2,600,000 XP. Even Zerk 9->Cleric is a long time already for only a bit more melee power.
I think 1 level 13 dual is probably more than enough. Even one is of questionable value as the 13th level provides a superfluous half APR in any weapon set up involving dual wielding and a speed weapon (which all your characters should do).
Furthermore, a Mage doesn't even need a speed weapon due to the bonus APR from tensers.
Finally, berserker past 7 is really a waste. I'd definitely recommend kensei 9 for the permanent +3 att/dam as rages don't last long enough on HoF and there isn't enough status effects that demand the immunities.
Oh, and where's the Skald? It's really amazing what the Skald song does in a party with 5 high APR characters and the bonuses to AC are just so beneficial to pushing your characters AC down to the -15 sweet spot.
I still don't see the relevance. The APR issue is a little complicated but a dual 7 fighter/Mage with GM caps at 4 APR when dual wielding which goes to 5 with tensers or a speed weapon.
The idea load out for the kensei 9/Mage that I mention in my post would use axes and bastard swords. There is a +1 bastard sword of action but once tensers is available he can switch to the Minotaur Axe and Incinerator.
Your weapon assessment is off, the best weapons in IWD are the stunners and longswords don't even have a stunner available. It's just lucky for the FMT that he can mislead backstab ...
The whole point of Fighter/Spellcasters is so they don't die when enemies attack them in melee. The only enemies worth stunning are spellcasters and if you're hitting them then they're not casting spells anymore, so really it's pretty pointless.
The whole point of Fighter/Spellcasters is so they don't die when enemies attack them in melee. The only enemies worth stunning are spellcasters and if you're hitting them then they're not casting spells anymore, so really it's pretty pointless.
I disagree. Stun locking an enemy is much more effective than casting a new stoneskin spell every fight and when you have multiple characters stun locking enemies it really minimises the need to rest, heal or rebuff which is a big increase in speed and efficiency.
Not that I wouldn't use BBoD for the kensage just that the LSoA isn't that strong if the character can get 5 APR anyway and doesn't need a backstabbing weapon.
I mean seriously, a kensage with mino axe and incinerator can probably stun lock 2 enemies.
With endgame equipment and buffs why is recasting Stoneskin done so often? I recast Stone Skin nearly as often as I recast Improved Haste.
Guess without stuff like Incendiary Clouds really softening up enemies having to hack away a hundred HP takes long enough that enemies can eat away at Stone Skin unless you stunlock them.
With endgame equipment and buffs why is recasting Stoneskin done so often? I recast Stone Skin nearly as often as I recast Improved Haste.
Guess without stuff like Incendiary Clouds really softening up enemies having to hack away a hundred HP takes long enough that enemies can eat away at Stone Skin unless you stunlock them.
You seem to definitely be overestimating the impact of incendiary cloud and forgetting that the party includes 3 arcanes and a Druid allowing for plenty of softening AoEs as the situation allows.
Have you tried a level 1 HoF party without the insane xp bonus? It changes the experience quite significantly.
Overestimating what? It's 21 average damage per enemy per layer per round.
And you seem to be forgetting that Druid AoE will just eat up Stoneskin and Ironskin or that 3 Arcanes need 3 scrolls. Not to mention multiplying spell slots requires Project Image which means rebuffing since Images don't come with buffs.
Also this is a powergaming thread about HoF with no special other modifications to the settings. Why exactly should less XP be a consideration?
Overestimating what? It's 21 average damage per enemy per layer per round.
And you seem to be forgetting that Druid AoE will just eat up Stoneskin and Ironskin or that 3 Arcanes need 3 scrolls. Not to mention multiplying spell slots requires Project Image which means rebuffing since Images don't come with buffs.
Also this is a powergaming thread about HoF with no special other modifications to the settings. Why exactly should less XP be a consideration?
That's not a lot of damage at that level and it's a long time to wait before it's available. The kensage can do the same spell and contribute 300 to 500 melee damage/round. A FMT can put out 1000+ at the same level with mislead. A dual cleric can do similar damage to a kensage (higher before BBoD).
Druid spells are used when the situation allows, as I said, which isn't on top of your own characters (choke points).
I'm talking about it because HoF is too easy with the xp available. Removing the insane xp bonus makes a lot of sense and has inspired me to take a new run at it (time allowing).
Right because all three Tenser Transformation scrolls are available when?
Or for that matter having enough casts of Improved Haste to buff the entire party? Not to mention being able to do this multiple times before needing to rest.
Or Mislead?
Or Black Blade of Disaster?
Also in which situation are Druid spells actually used when Fighter characters are already capable of fighting in melee?
Oh and Sorcerers get Incendiary Cloud in Chapter 4. When exactly do all three scrolls of Incendiary Cloud come in? Since apparently 3 arcane characters can cast this.
Also again the topic is about powergaming in HoF. Not powergaming HoF with the double XP bonus removed.
The APR issue is a little complicated but a dual 7 fighter/Mage with GM caps at 4 APR when dual wielding which goes to 5 with tensers or a speed weapon.
How do you get GM from Fighter 7?
Regarding APR and ranged weapons, does anyone know if they have extra APR from Proficiency ranks? I read that they don't even though Specialisation(**) in slings shows 2 attacks on the character sheet.
The APR issue is a little complicated but a dual 7 fighter/Mage with GM caps at 4 APR when dual wielding which goes to 5 with tensers or a speed weapon.
How do you get GM from Fighter 7?
Regarding APR and ranged weapons, does anyone know if they have extra APR from Proficiency ranks? I read that they don't even though Specialisation(**) in slings shows 2 attacks on the character sheet.
Can save your level 6 Mage pip for GM when you hit Mage 8 last time I checked.
APR should be effected by specialisation as long as the character has warrior levels. Swashbuckler and non-warrior BBoD users miss out unfortunately.
Can save your level 6 Mage pip for GM when you hit Mage 8 last time I checked.
In IWDEE? That has been corrected, hasn't it?
Without saving pips you can reach GM at level 12 then.
...
My latest testing party is controversial:
Dragon Disciple : instead of Skald Sorcerer Fighter/Druid Thief 3 -> Fighter Berserker 9 -> Cleric : very likely '9' not '13' Kensai X -> Mage : probably also '9' and not '13'
With that party, the prologue has been more difficult with HoF enabled. With a second heavy armored berserker missing, the Orcs Cave has been a challenge this time, and fun, too. But afterwards, the party cleared the Kuldahar Pass areas without entering Kuldahar first. The Kensai is getting better ... Kresselack's Tomb level 2 is next ... haha ... I've learned 'Friends' and 'Identify' this time ... have not learned 'Knock' yet as the mage may do that.
So combine the worst traits of a full spellcasting party and a full warrior party and then make it even worse by cutting the effectiveness of both types by mixing them together.
The topic is: Whats your best powergaming party for this game?
It is not: What is Zyzzogeton's best powergaming party for this game?
Very early you've suggested this vague party composition:
Berserker Cleric Berserker Mage or FMT Berserker Druid Archer or Swashbuckler Fighter Sorc Skald
It's vague because of the two "or". I also don't like a three-class FMT. The Swashbuckler Fighter must be dual-class and is not significantly different from a Thief->Fighter. The Archer would bore me.
I don't like that party. It wouldn't work well for me either, because of the way I play the game. I like using healers. I'm familiar with dual-classing, but three dual-class berserkers are too many for me. I don't want to give them bows or slings with just one pip and sit and wait for the bit of damage that does. I also don't want to run away in circles often ... even if that may be your favourite powergaming technique.
By description (e.g. at Wikipedia), powergaming is not as well-defined as one might think. Min-maxing attributes can be considered powergaming already. Not doing role-playing can be considered powergaming. Choosing incompatible alignment of party members can be considered powergaming, too. Dual-classing is controversial and considered powergaming by some. Some of those things apply to my party.
One of my latest HoF games involved this party, slightly derived from one that completed the main game at insane difficulty:
Berserker 9 -> Cleric : 9 instead of 3 (the earliest I dual-class sometimes) Berserker 9 -> Mage : instead of Blackguard Fighter/Druid : instead of Avenger Thief 3 -> Fighter : ranged beast plus late melee abilities in heavy armor Sorc : or Dragon Disciple I've tested Skald
Around 1,66x,xxx XP per character within the Wyrms Tooth Glacier I had a few things in my head ... and especially the Skald started to bore me.
That party is not much different from yours.
And the latest one without the Skald may not meet your own standards on paper ... but it is more powerful for me. Compared with the kill statistics I've posted for the older party, the Th->Fi is down to just 28% ... as the DrD and Sorc contribute a lot more damage. Kensai and Berserker once again do only melee fighting and have done almost as much damage each as the ranged Th->Fi thanks to healing support from the druid. With the latest party I won't stop at Wyrms Tooth Glacier, get some more XP numbers and then do the maths to tell whether I might like a Fighter/Mage in the party ... perhaps even instead of the Kensai->Mage.
How exactly do kill percentages matter? All parties kill the same amount of enemies.
What matters is how effiicient a party is compared to other parties.
So again how does replacing the Skald's replacement with a Fighter lead to a party being more efficient? The start of the game is tougher by your own admission, nothing you've said so far makes it more efficient than other parties in later parts.
So all it means you're making one part of a game harder while not making the other parts easier. So how exactly is this powergaming?
How exactly do kill percentages matter? All parties kill the same amount of enemies.
Isn't it obvious? ... If more members of the party contribute damage, it's not just the ranged fighter doing most of the kills and leading the stats by far. The poor sorcerer with his sling would need to be extremely lucky to be the one to hit many monsters at "near death" and become the one to kill it rather than the very active and more reliable fighters.
The conclusion is that with the revised party more heroes contribute to the damage so far. It isn't supposed to tell who did the most damage. It's the luxury of a second set of sorcerer spells, for example.
What matters is how effiicient a party is compared to other parties.
Efficiency is in the eye of the beholder. So again, you like running away in circles with a berserker serving as bait. I like brute force ... weakening the enemies and breaking through.
So again how does replacing the Skald's replacement with a Fighter lead to a party being more efficient?
Rephrase that please. Do you ask about my comment on possibly replacing the sorcerer (or DrD) with a Fighter/Mage? That is because I cannot tell yet whether I will be happy with the Kensai->Mage and what I've planned with it. The longer I level up the Kensai, the longer I will need to wait for the Mage and have the two sorcerers do all the arcane casting. Just like the Fighter/Druid, a Fighter/Mage might meet my requirements better.
The start of the game is tougher by your own admission, nothing you've said so far makes it more efficient than other parties in later parts.
So all it means you're making one part of a game harder while not making the other parts easier. So how exactly is this powergaming?
A single fight has been perceived as harder so far. Since then I like the party more. Forgotten Temple level two will be next.
So basing the use of a Sorcerer as early as Forgotten Temple? When they practically catch up to a Druid casting Spike Growth right after once Cloudkill comes in?
Seriously?
Bait is only used initially, once the Cleric gets Animate Dead there's no point using a character to lure enemies. Or later on when every Fighter has no problem being targetted in melee. Do you have this ridiculous notion that I bait enemies with a character for the entire game? It was pretty obvious that character baiting is only used in the early game. Anyone with some basic notion of powergaming in this game would have realized that.
Also what's this "like" nonsense? I use baiting because it's what I find to be the most efficient solution to the problem of a party without summons in the early game. If there was a more efficient solution I'd use that instead.
This has nothing to do with me liking to bait enemies, it's about me wanting to use the best way to deal with a problem.
Enemies have less chances to hit means far less risk of character death. Efficiency. Powergaming.
So as far as you've said, the initial fights were harder, and you're somehow relying on Slings with a Sorcerer and not their spells in the later fights.
So again how is this powergaming?
Oh and last hit percentages are an incredibly poor way to gauge how much a spellcaster is contributing. They only work for Fighters. Spells deal AoE damage and contribute by softening enemies up so that those Fighters get their last hits quicker. Again, efficiency. So how exactly is kill percentage a good way to rate a Sorcerer with Fighters in the party.
So basing the use of a Sorcerer as early as Forgotten Temple? When they practically catch up to a Druid casting Spike Growth right after once Cloudkill comes in?
Seriously?
Sure! Level 5 wizard spells, such as Cloudkill, are not available yet.
Bait is only used initially, once the Cleric gets Animate Dead there's no point using a character to lure enemies.
Animate Dead is not available yet either, since there is no Cleric in the party at that time. Animate Dead would only be available if serving as bait a longer time and dual-classing earlier, such as at level 7, ... that would get a level 5/6 cleric some time before Kresselack's tomb.
Instead, the druid can summon more powerful animals and more of them.
Do you have this ridiculous notion that I bait enemies with a character for the entire game? It was pretty obvious that character baiting is only used in the early game. Anyone with some basic notion of powergaming in this game would have realized that.
It doesn't work for me at Vale of Shadows and its crypts, for example.
Also what's this "like" nonsense? I use baiting because it's what I find to be the most efficient solution to the problem of a party without summons in the early game. If there was a more efficient solution I'd use that instead.
Use what works for you, don't demand that other players do the same. It should be pretty obvious that other players prefer other party compositions, which involves powergaming, too ... such as no arcane caster based on the knowledge that those are considered unnecessary in the game. For other players, more fire power is the way to do it.
So as far as you've said, the initial fights were harder, and you're somehow relying on Slings with a Sorcerer and not their spells in the later fights.
Oh and last hit percentages are an incredibly poor way to gauge how much a spellcaster is contributing. They only work for Fighters. Spells deal AoE damage and contribute by softening enemies up so that those Fighters get their last hits quicker.
No. Melee fighters don't even join the fun because that would involve entering the AoE. They are passive and serve as bodyguards. The kills per caster increase because the casters are more involved with their area damage ... with the luxury of enough spell power to learn more than just damage spells.
Except Sorcerers can learn Cloudkill right after Forgotten Temple.
Last I checked my recommendation for dual classing a Berserker into a Cleric is Level 7.
Right heavy hitters, what exactly will these heavy hitters hit? A Cleric with almost 100% Slashing Resistance? A good amount of Crushing Resistance and regenerating a bunch of HP per round? Iron Skin? Mirror Image? Stone Skin? All with negative AC that a Skald brings even lower with -4 AC
lol
"Heavy hitters"
By the crypts a Berserker>Cleric should already have Animate Dead, one that's dual classed efficiently at 7.
As for what works for me? This is a powergaming topic, it's about efficiency and not just what works for people.
Again with the caves and crypts. Must be because of how inefficient a Level 9 Dual Class is.
Made what up? The part where you said
the prologue has been more difficult with HoF enabled
Or the part where you said
. The poor sorcerer with his sling
Oh and bodyguard? lol. So even with Summon and Webs/Clouds the Fighters still need to "bodyguard" the casters? Just how inefficient is your party? Because a properly built powergaming party, as early as the Vale, easily has enemies either webbed or hitting summons.
So all the Fighters need to do is get a bow and sling and shoot enemies.
So how exactly is your party properly powergaming? The Fighters are stuck on guard duty early on when they can easily be on bows, the Skald's damage bonuses are missing, the Sorcerer is stuck on slings instead of spell slinging, and somehow you predict that later in the game a bunch of buffed Fighters are still going to run into trouble from "heavy hitters"
Last I checked my recommendation for dual classing a Berserker into a Cleric is Level 7.
Last I dual-classed the Berserker, I did it at level 9 ... because it made me curious. I've posted about it here ... somewhere. I liked it. It's a long time to level 9, however. So long I don't want to miss a Priest. Hence the Fi/Druid.
A Cleric with almost 100% Slashing Resistance? A good amount of Crushing Resistance and regenerating a bunch of HP per round? Iron Skin? Mirror Image? Stone Skin? All with negative AC that a Skald brings even lower with -4 AC
Singing the old song again? Incendiary Cloud, Wish and stuff? It's getting boring.
Just how inefficient is your party? Because a properly built powergaming party, as early as the Vale, easily has enemies either webbed or hitting summons.
What about Fighter/Druid multi-class do you not understand?
So how exactly is your party properly powergaming? The Fighters are stuck on guard duty early on when they can easily be on bows,
A Kensai cannot use ranged weapons and isn't interested in them as a future Battle Mage. The Berserker doesn't waste a pip on slings. Sorcerer, DragonD and Fi/Druid may throw pebbles, if they are bored with casting spells. Let's not forget the Th->Fi being good with a bow. And who will tidy up all that mess afterwards?
Comments
Once you get an ammo belt and a bag of holding, the issue of not having enough normal Arrows is non existant.
As for the pure druid, for the cost of a few thousand XP (Level 3 Fighter Dual) and pretty mediocre Kit bonuses, a Druid gets Grandmastery. So there's really no point going with a Druid kit in a powergaming party unless it's one of the restrictions.
Berserker 13->Cleric is a very long time before the primary class will be available again. 2,600,000 XP. Even Zerk 9->Cleric is a long time already for only a bit more melee power.
Furthermore, a Mage doesn't even need a speed weapon due to the bonus APR from tensers.
Finally, berserker past 7 is really a waste. I'd definitely recommend kensei 9 for the permanent +3 att/dam as rages don't last long enough on HoF and there isn't enough status effects that demand the immunities.
Oh, and where's the Skald? It's really amazing what the Skald song does in a party with 5 high APR characters and the bonuses to AC are just so beneficial to pushing your characters AC down to the -15 sweet spot.
Also it's still 1d8+4 definitely better than most of the weapons in the game.
The idea load out for the kensei 9/Mage that I mention in my post would use axes and bastard swords. There is a +1 bastard sword of action but once tensers is available he can switch to the Minotaur Axe and Incinerator.
Your weapon assessment is off, the best weapons in IWD are the stunners and longswords don't even have a stunner available. It's just lucky for the FMT that he can mislead backstab ...
The whole point of Fighter/Spellcasters is so they don't die when enemies attack them in melee. The only enemies worth stunning are spellcasters and if you're hitting them then they're not casting spells anymore, so really it's pretty pointless.
Not that I wouldn't use BBoD for the kensage just that the LSoA isn't that strong if the character can get 5 APR anyway and doesn't need a backstabbing weapon.
I mean seriously, a kensage with mino axe and incinerator can probably stun lock 2 enemies.
Guess without stuff like Incendiary Clouds really softening up enemies having to hack away a hundred HP takes long enough that enemies can eat away at Stone Skin unless you stunlock them.
Have you tried a level 1 HoF party without the insane xp bonus? It changes the experience quite significantly.
And you seem to be forgetting that Druid AoE will just eat up Stoneskin and Ironskin or that 3 Arcanes need 3 scrolls. Not to mention multiplying spell slots requires Project Image which means rebuffing since Images don't come with buffs.
Also this is a powergaming thread about HoF with no special other modifications to the settings. Why exactly should less XP be a consideration?
Druid spells are used when the situation allows, as I said, which isn't on top of your own characters (choke points).
I'm talking about it because HoF is too easy with the xp available. Removing the insane xp bonus makes a lot of sense and has inspired me to take a new run at it (time allowing).
Or for that matter having enough casts of Improved Haste to buff the entire party? Not to mention being able to do this multiple times before needing to rest.
Or Mislead?
Or Black Blade of Disaster?
Also in which situation are Druid spells actually used when Fighter characters are already capable of fighting in melee?
Oh and Sorcerers get Incendiary Cloud in Chapter 4. When exactly do all three scrolls of Incendiary Cloud come in? Since apparently 3 arcane characters can cast this.
Also again the topic is about powergaming in HoF. Not powergaming HoF with the double XP bonus removed.
Regarding APR and ranged weapons, does anyone know if they have extra APR from Proficiency ranks? I read that they don't even though Specialisation(**) in slings shows 2 attacks on the character sheet.
APR should be effected by specialisation as long as the character has warrior levels. Swashbuckler and non-warrior BBoD users miss out unfortunately.
Without saving pips you can reach GM at level 12 then.
...
My latest testing party is controversial:
Dragon Disciple : instead of Skald
Sorcerer
Fighter/Druid
Thief 3 -> Fighter
Berserker 9 -> Cleric : very likely '9' not '13'
Kensai X -> Mage : probably also '9' and not '13'
With that party, the prologue has been more difficult with HoF enabled. With a second heavy armored berserker missing, the Orcs Cave has been a challenge this time, and fun, too. But afterwards, the party cleared the Kuldahar Pass areas without entering Kuldahar first. The Kensai is getting better ... Kresselack's Tomb level 2 is next ... haha ... I've learned 'Friends' and 'Identify' this time ... have not learned 'Knock' yet as the mage may do that.
It is not: What is Zyzzogeton's best powergaming party for this game?
Very early you've suggested this vague party composition: It's vague because of the two "or". I also don't like a three-class FMT. The Swashbuckler Fighter must be dual-class and is not significantly different from a Thief->Fighter. The Archer would bore me.
I don't like that party. It wouldn't work well for me either, because of the way I play the game. I like using healers. I'm familiar with dual-classing, but three dual-class berserkers are too many for me. I don't want to give them bows or slings with just one pip and sit and wait for the bit of damage that does. I also don't want to run away in circles often ... even if that may be your favourite powergaming technique.
By description (e.g. at Wikipedia), powergaming is not as well-defined as one might think. Min-maxing attributes can be considered powergaming already. Not doing role-playing can be considered powergaming. Choosing incompatible alignment of party members can be considered powergaming, too. Dual-classing is controversial and considered powergaming by some. Some of those things apply to my party.
One of my latest HoF games involved this party, slightly derived from one that completed the main game at insane difficulty: Around 1,66x,xxx XP per character within the Wyrms Tooth Glacier I had a few things in my head ... and especially the Skald started to bore me.
That party is not much different from yours.
And the latest one without the Skald may not meet your own standards on paper ... but it is more powerful for me. Compared with the kill statistics I've posted for the older party, the Th->Fi is down to just 28% ... as the DrD and Sorc contribute a lot more damage. Kensai and Berserker once again do only melee fighting and have done almost as much damage each as the ranged Th->Fi thanks to healing support from the druid. With the latest party I won't stop at Wyrms Tooth Glacier, get some more XP numbers and then do the maths to tell whether I might like a Fighter/Mage in the party ... perhaps even instead of the Kensai->Mage.
What matters is how effiicient a party is compared to other parties.
So again how does replacing the Skald's replacement with a Fighter lead to a party being more efficient? The start of the game is tougher by your own admission, nothing you've said so far makes it more efficient than other parties in later parts.
So all it means you're making one part of a game harder while not making the other parts easier. So how exactly is this powergaming?
The conclusion is that with the revised party more heroes contribute to the damage so far. It isn't supposed to tell who did the most damage. It's the luxury of a second set of sorcerer spells, for example. Efficiency is in the eye of the beholder. So again, you like running away in circles with a berserker serving as bait. I like brute force ... weakening the enemies and breaking through. Rephrase that please. Do you ask about my comment on possibly replacing the sorcerer (or DrD) with a Fighter/Mage? That is because I cannot tell yet whether I will be happy with the Kensai->Mage and what I've planned with it. The longer I level up the Kensai, the longer I will need to wait for the Mage and have the two sorcerers do all the arcane casting. Just like the Fighter/Druid, a Fighter/Mage might meet my requirements better. A single fight has been perceived as harder so far. Since then I like the party more. Forgotten Temple level two will be next.
Seriously?
Bait is only used initially, once the Cleric gets Animate Dead there's no point using a character to lure enemies. Or later on when every Fighter has no problem being targetted in melee. Do you have this ridiculous notion that I bait enemies with a character for the entire game? It was pretty obvious that character baiting is only used in the early game. Anyone with some basic notion of powergaming in this game would have realized that.
Also what's this "like" nonsense? I use baiting because it's what I find to be the most efficient solution to the problem of a party without summons in the early game. If there was a more efficient solution I'd use that instead.
This has nothing to do with me liking to bait enemies, it's about me wanting to use the best way to deal with a problem.
Enemies have less chances to hit means far less risk of character death. Efficiency. Powergaming.
So as far as you've said, the initial fights were harder, and you're somehow relying on Slings with a Sorcerer and not their spells in the later fights.
So again how is this powergaming?
Oh and last hit percentages are an incredibly poor way to gauge how much a spellcaster is contributing. They only work for Fighters. Spells deal AoE damage and contribute by softening enemies up so that those Fighters get their last hits quicker. Again, efficiency. So how exactly is kill percentage a good way to rate a Sorcerer with Fighters in the party.
Instead, the druid can summon more powerful animals and more of them. Seriously? Later there are enough melee enemies that are heavy hitters. It doesn't work for me at Vale of Shadows and its crypts, for example. Use what works for you, don't demand that other players do the same. It should be pretty obvious that other players prefer other party compositions, which involves powergaming, too ... such as no arcane caster based on the knowledge that those are considered unnecessary in the game. For other players, more fire power is the way to do it.
Efficiency and serving as bait, running in circles in caves and crypts, doesn't fit well to eachother. Not right. You've made that up. No. Melee fighters don't even join the fun because that would involve entering the AoE. They are passive and serve as bodyguards. The kills per caster increase because the casters are more involved with their area damage ... with the luxury of enough spell power to learn more than just damage spells.
Last I checked my recommendation for dual classing a Berserker into a Cleric is Level 7.
Right heavy hitters, what exactly will these heavy hitters hit? A Cleric with almost 100% Slashing Resistance? A good amount of Crushing Resistance and regenerating a bunch of HP per round? Iron Skin? Mirror Image? Stone Skin? All with negative AC that a Skald brings even lower with -4 AC
lol
"Heavy hitters"
By the crypts a Berserker>Cleric should already have Animate Dead, one that's dual classed efficiently at 7.
As for what works for me? This is a powergaming topic, it's about efficiency and not just what works for people.
Again with the caves and crypts. Must be because of how inefficient a Level 9 Dual Class is.
Made what up? The part where you said Or the part where you said Oh and bodyguard? lol. So even with Summon and Webs/Clouds the Fighters still need to "bodyguard" the casters? Just how inefficient is your party? Because a properly built powergaming party, as early as the Vale, easily has enemies either webbed or hitting summons.
So all the Fighters need to do is get a bow and sling and shoot enemies.
So how exactly is your party properly powergaming? The Fighters are stuck on guard duty early on when they can easily be on bows, the Skald's damage bonuses are missing, the Sorcerer is stuck on slings instead of spell slinging, and somehow you predict that later in the game a bunch of buffed Fighters are still going to run into trouble from "heavy hitters"
One more round... And how is that relevant?
I'm comparing parties with eachother. This one I like more so far. Last I dual-classed the Berserker, I did it at level 9 ... because it made me curious. I've posted about it here ... somewhere. I liked it. It's a long time to level 9, however. So long I don't want to miss a Priest. Hence the Fi/Druid. You're about to answer your own question. The plan is that they won't reach the party. Easy as that. Singing the old song again? Incendiary Cloud, Wish and stuff? It's getting boring.
What about Fighter/Druid multi-class do you not understand?
I know a druid, who can hook you up with some good stuff.