I wonder how BioWare (just 60 people team back then according to Wiki) managed to do them all in just a couple of years back in the day.
Is Beamdog's team more than 60 people right now? Isn't it closer to ~half of that? BioWare likely had a small team of people (2-5) whose only job was to make the sprites. Also I think BioWare had a larger budget to work with in comparison to Beamdog.
I dunno, we're talking about mid-late 90s here, production values and technology changed since them. But wiki says that for the whole dev team who worked on BG that was their first game to be released. The only thing different here is that they collaborated with Interplay. But is there something stopping Beamdog from collaborating with more experienced devs/publishers, or from hiring more people to make BG series even better looking? They've said themselves that they're established now and money problems no longer an issue.
I wonder how BioWare (just 60 people team back then according to Wiki) managed to do them all in just a couple of years back in the day.
Is Beamdog's team more than 60 people right now? Isn't it closer to ~half of that? BioWare likely had a small team of people (2-5) whose only job was to make the sprites. Also I think BioWare had a larger budget to work with in comparison to Beamdog.
I dunno, we're talking about mid-late 90s here, production values and technology changed since them. But wiki says that for the whole dev team who worked on BG that was their first game to be released. The only thing different here is that they collaborated with Interplay. But is there something stopping Beamdog from collaborating with more experienced devs/publishers, or from hiring more people to make BG series even better looking?
I wonder how BioWare (just 60 people team back then according to Wiki) managed to do them all in just a couple of years back in the day. So how about switching sprites to 3D animated models? Is it feasible or same level of complicated?
Btw, have any of you guys seen FFVI with remade graphics on iOS? That's the way to do it.
Baldur Gate's sprite were originally 3D models.
Which means what? It's possible to make new high-res 3D models and then port them into the game?
It's definitely possible. I wonder how much of the modeling work could be outsourcee to India and/or China. It seems quite possible considering that Bioware did it somehow.
Fyi, I fully expect Beamdog's next game to use unique models.
They are not going to attract new players by announcing that all the sprites have been redone in hi def, or atleast not enough to warrant the extra cost involved for undertaking such a project.
For a comparison, look how long it took Pillars of Eternity to be made with full backing. That is the scope and cost of what you are asking for a DLC that may only attract a small portion of players who purchased BG:EE.
Fyi, I fully expect Beamdog's next game to use unique models.
If it's a new ip I fully expect them to switch to a whole new engine, lol. Unless that PS:T:EE, hmm, yes that really should be their next project. Speaking of PS:T, Black Isle made that game in 2 years - practically all models there were new, not borrowed from BG. I'm telling you, IE engine devs back then knew how to make model sprites quite quickly.
To expand on that. For a comparison, look how long it took Pillars of Eternity to be made with full backing. That is the scope and cost of what you are asking for a DLC that may only attract a small portion of players who purchased BG:EE.
It took them 2.5 years, which is normal for a game that was made from scratch. But here we're talking only about making improvements on models assets.
Which makes sense. By my count based on its credits (after excluding duplicate names) the original BG1 had over 160 people working on it. That is excluding any international teams (so translators, international marketers, etc) as well as any of the actors and beta testers. Basically just people from Bioware and Interplay/Black Isle (who also were involved).
6 of those people are just listed as modellers and another 10 are listed as animators.
The latest figure from Trent stated that there are 36 people (in total) working on SoD. So quite a difference
Ironically, Trent Oster was involved with modeling the original BG1. The only chance I see at this point of the models getting remade is a new official Enhanced Edition Trilogy game.
Ironically, Trent Oster was involved with modeling the original BG1. The only chance I see at thid point of the models getting remade is a new official Enhanced Edition Trilogy game.
Well, at this point I guess we'll just have to wait another decade or two until someone decides to do a full remake. You never know, miracles can happen, like with FF7 remake and Shenmue 3.
Which means what? It's possible to make new high-res 3D models and then port them into the game?
The original models used the make the sprites were part of the assets that were lost. The only things the devs have to works with (without remaking the assets) are the pre-rendered sprites contained in the final game.
Speaking of PS:T, Black Isle made that game in 2 years - practically all models there were new, not borrowed from BG. I'm telling you, IE engine devs back then knew how to make model sprites quite quickly.
When these assets were originally created they were designed for 800x600 res. For 1080p res you need to make more detailed models, and those take more time to make. Also some of the people on the Beamdog team *are* the people who made BG back in 1998, they know exactly how they did what they did back then.
As has been stated by others, it is less of a "lost knowledge" situation and more of a "not worth the effort" (from a profit point of view) situation.
As has been stated by others, it is less of a "lost knowledge" situation and more of a "not worth the effort" (from a profit point of view) situation.
Actually, I've seen a lot of comments on the different forums from gamers who say the reason they don't want to buy EE versions of the game because the graphics were not improved or remade, that it looks basically the same as the original but with an overhauled UI, and that no modern gamer wants to play this kind of outdated game in current day and age. So hypothetically Beamdog could have made even more profit by satisfying those more demanding gamers, but then again, with this kind of "nay saying" attitude EE is best thing we can hope for from Beamdog.
A small vocal minority is not cause to increase cost.
The main objective of BG:EE was to bring it to more mobile platforms and to prove their was an appetite for these type of games for tablets and other mobile devices.
Ironically, Trent Oster was involved with modeling the original BG1. The only chance I see at thid point of the models getting remade is a new official Enhanced Edition Trilogy game.
Well, at this point I guess we'll just have to wait another decade or two until someone decides to do a full remake. You never know, miracles can happen, like with FF7 remake and Shenmue 3.
I think this may legitimately be the first time that anyone's implied that a Squeenix re-make of something was a "miracle."
A small vocal minority is not cause to increase cost.
The main objective of BG:EE was to bring it to more mobile platforms and to prove their was an appetite for these type of games for tablets and other mobile devices.
And they were successful in that. Clearly, the appetite is there!
I hate to make an off topic post, but having played both the original and the android versions of FFIV I actually like the android version better. If anyone wants to discuss further I would suggest making an "off topic" thread so this one does not get derailed by FF remake talk.
I feel like I've fallen ass-backwards into the Twilight Zone every time I see this article. (Third time, now.) The game genuinely looks better to me. So much better that the article and everybody in the comments crying tears of blood has me wondering if I'm not schizophrenic.
I feel like I've fallen ass-backwards into the Twilight Zone every time I see this article. (Third time, now.) The game genuinely looks better to me. So much better that the article and everybody in the comments crying tears of blood has me wondering if I'm not schizophrenic.
There is a different in style, but I, too, think it looks better. The problem is, if you connect a style to a story, it will look weird if the style is changed. Depending on how strong this connection is even slight stylistic changes can confuse you and thus you think it looks weird (or even hideous).
If I want to play a good "old" RPG, I want the infinity engine because my best rpg moments are connected to that (and it ages better than early 3D =P). Even other char-portraits take a looong time getting used to (for me), so I *think* I understand where there coming from.
On the other hand.. Beamdog? keep using the infinity engine please, I have a crappy graphic-card (on board to be exact =/ ) and I have troubles getting new isometric engines to work =P
(Or give me a PSVita port.. then I will preorder your games for the next decade u_u)
For FF VI, there's something off in the use of perspective: that's why some of us are complaining. There's also the change in art style, which is made possibly by better graphics capabilities. Not everyone likes the new art style.
I'm not bothered. I have the cart.
But, honestly, anyone who lets a remake 'kill their childhood' needs to realise they can just play the original.
Uhm.. no, you can't play the original.. The moment a remake/enhanced/sequel comes out every original version stops working and your memories will be modified. Thats what ppl mean, the companys have machines to literal kill every good memory you have of a game. Also they force you at gunpoint to buy remakes and every DLC, because of that it is completly fair and understandable to call these demons.. u_u
I would rather have a BG3, with 5E rules and lore (Bhaal has returned in 5E), with new 3D models, pre-rendered background and isometric in the style of Pillars of Eternity, than see BG's sprites remade. It's pointless and a waste of resources and time at this point.
I would rather have a BG3, with 5E rules and lore (Bhaal has returned in 5E), with new 3D models, pre-rendered background and isometric in the style of Pillars of Eternity, than see BG's sprites remade. It's pointless and a waste of resources and time at this point.
Someone said it, finally. This is the Throne of Bhaal of BG1. While TotSC was a Trials of the Luremaster of BG1.
Well.. I *think* Beamdog wants to create a new "type" of expansions, they mentioned wanting to create another one between SoA and ToB.
Well.. you could also call it "what ToB would have been without a hurrying publisher".
Mhm.. I wonder.. will Bioware members (or other old developers of BG) play it? it should be nostalgia for them too (then again, they maybe disliking it since ppl keep mentioning it and comparing it to newer games.. dunno ^^)
I get the enthusiasm with a new game and all, but it's getting old seeing the same old IE graphically after 17 years.
For me, it got to a point where it's getting tiring. This is the 4th "EE" game in IE.
This is an expansion to a game, not a full game.
That's the point, i'd like to see something completely new, not more IE, expansion or not.
The point of the post, was that, for some people, IE has had enough. It doesn't matter if you're making an expansion with it, or a full new game.
I would like to see new character models really, but it reflects my dislike for Infinity Engine assets since day one, not now. I don't expect them to create new sprites for something like this.
Comments
It's definitely possible. I wonder how much of the modeling work could be outsourcee to India and/or China. It seems quite possible considering that Bioware did it somehow.
Fyi, I fully expect Beamdog's next game to use unique models.
They are not going to attract new players by announcing that all the sprites have been redone in hi def, or atleast not enough to warrant the extra cost involved for undertaking such a project.
For a comparison, look how long it took Pillars of Eternity to be made with full backing. That is the scope and cost of what you are asking for a DLC that may only attract a small portion of players who purchased BG:EE.
Speaking of PS:T, Black Isle made that game in 2 years - practically all models there were new, not borrowed from BG. I'm telling you, IE engine devs back then knew how to make model sprites quite quickly.
According to Ray Muzyka BG1 took about 90 man-years of development.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3084/baldurs_gate_ii_the_anatomy_of_a_.php
Which makes sense. By my count based on its credits (after excluding duplicate names) the original BG1 had over 160 people working on it. That is excluding any international teams (so translators, international marketers, etc) as well as any of the actors and beta testers. Basically just people from Bioware and Interplay/Black Isle (who also were involved).
6 of those people are just listed as modellers and another 10 are listed as animators.
The latest figure from Trent stated that there are 36 people (in total) working on SoD. So quite a difference
As has been stated by others, it is less of a "lost knowledge" situation and more of a "not worth the effort" (from a profit point of view) situation.
A small vocal minority is not cause to increase cost.
The main objective of BG:EE was to bring it to more mobile platforms and to prove their was an appetite for these type of games for tablets and other mobile devices.
http://kotaku.com/oh-no-square-enix-what-have-you-done-to-final-fantasy-1502268040
The problem is, if you connect a style to a story, it will look weird if the style is changed.
Depending on how strong this connection is even slight stylistic changes can confuse you
and thus you think it looks weird (or even hideous).
If I want to play a good "old" RPG, I want the infinity engine because my best rpg moments are
connected to that (and it ages better than early 3D =P). Even other char-portraits take a looong
time getting used to (for me), so I *think* I understand where there coming from.
On the other hand.. Beamdog? keep using the infinity engine please, I have a crappy graphic-card
(on board to be exact =/ ) and I have troubles getting new isometric engines to work =P
(Or give me a PSVita port.. then I will preorder your games for the next decade u_u)
version stops working and your memories will be modified. Thats what ppl mean, the companys have
machines to literal kill every good memory you have of a game.
Also they force you at gunpoint to buy remakes and every DLC, because of that it is completly fair and
understandable to call these demons.. u_u
For me, it got to a point where it's getting tiring. This is the 4th "EE" game in IE.
It's pointless and a waste of resources and time at this point. Someone said it, finally.
This is the Throne of Bhaal of BG1. While TotSC was a Trials of the Luremaster of BG1.
create another one between SoA and ToB.
Well.. you could also call it "what ToB would have been without a hurrying publisher".
Mhm.. I wonder.. will Bioware members (or other old developers of BG) play it?
it should be nostalgia for them too (then again, they maybe disliking it since ppl keep mentioning it
and comparing it to newer games.. dunno ^^)
The point of the post, was that, for some people, IE has had enough. It doesn't matter if you're making an expansion with it, or a full new game.
I would like to see new character models really, but it reflects my dislike for Infinity Engine assets since day one, not now. I don't expect them to create new sprites for something like this.
Thanks for crushing my hopes >_<
*still wants a sprite or other faery as a familiar for his bard*
P.S. Crom-s Faer-y is also a testament on how popular and strong faerys are!