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  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,948
    Yea I was referring to the spell :)

    Aerakar
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 2,416
    Artona said:

    There is no reason for BG1 companions to show up in BG - with exception of Imoen and Ajantis. It's silly that suddenly bunch of people from Baldur's Gate and it's surroundings randomly decided to journey south - just in time to meet Charname. Faldorn, Safana, Coran, Montaro, Xzar, Tiax, Quayle... C'mon.
    The same with "canon party". Irenicus had no reason to imprison Jaheira and Minsc, instead of simply killing them.
    Is there any mod that *removes* BG1 NPCs from SoA?


    If you don't like them, just ignore them.

    Balrog99
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,044


    If you don't like them, just ignore them.

    Thanks for advice, but I'd rather install a mod, if there is one. :)

  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,044
    @UnderstandMouseMagic - this is reasonable head-cannon IMO, but sheer number of returning companions makes entire thing too convienent for my liking. I can see, let's say, Safana, Coran and Edwin visiting Alkathla becaues of reasons you mentioned, but there we have host of other people. It hurts my suspension of disbelief.

    Kurona
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,068
    @Artona
    Siege of Dragonspear helps explain (although it really didn't need to) why the starting party of BG2 consists of Charname, Imoen, Jaheria, Khalid (Dead), Minsc and Dynaheir (Dead)

    1. I'll give you Safana and Coran, that one bothered me too
    2. Garrick is a bard, bards travel
    3. Edwin is a bit tricky, but he seemed to be in Athakatla on some sort of business and decided to stay. And what about The Nether Scrolls?
    4. Tiax is another easy one, he was arrested for causing a disturbance and sent to Spellhold because he's nuttier than a bowl of fancy cashews
    5. Quayle is another one that doesn't make any sense, I'll give you that one too
    6. Faldorn is a Shadow Druid, while it's a bit of stretch to say she traveled south to Amn, it's not at all a stretch to say she used her influence to become an Archdruid while she was there. Shadow Druids love undermining regular druids
    7. Xzar and Montaron are Zhents and there is a major Harpers Compound in Athkatla, why wouldn't they go to spy on it?

    If you dig into someone's story or think about it just a little bit harder, it makes more sense that you think it does for these guys to be in BG2. I think you're being WAY too hard on the writers without any sort of proper justification.

    Wise_Grimwald
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,044
    @ZaramMaldovar - my problem with canon party isn't that they are brought there, but that some of them are alive with no good reason.
    My point is that you can explain everyone alone, but on everyone at the same time. X & M could spy in any other place. Faldorn had no reason to leave Cloakwood, and to travel to the same place Charname is. Edwin could be searching power in, for example, Waterdeep. Tiax is a divine caster, and divine casting isn't forbidden in Amn. Coincidence after coincidence, everyone ends up in Amn at the same time!
    It's basically like learning that 60% of companions in SoA are Bhaalspawn as well. Possible, but silly.

    Justifying something with head-cannon isn't solving that problem. You can explain every silliness that way.

    ThacoBellMirandel
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,068
    @Artona
    Silly? With the exception of Faldorn which now that I think about it also makes no sense, I (and I think most people) would have to disagree with you on that. It makes perfect sense that 90% of companions are where they are. Some of these companions even have in-story (not headcanon at all) reasons for why they showed up in Amn. Life is full of coincidences. You're welcome to your opinion and I hope I'm not coming across as rude, but it just feels very unreasonable.

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,669
    @ZaramMaldovar, you're aware in which thread you are posting, right? :)

    I actually agree with @artona here. I like returning NPCs, but to have them all (or most of them) would be quite hard to make reasonable. Coincidence only go so far, IMHO, until 'suspension of disbelief' come into play.

    KuronaArtonaThacoBell
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,044
    edited January 11
    @ZaramMaldovar - as I said above, it's silly in volume.
    1. Safana - she goes after bounty on Charname. Makes sense.
    2. Coran - he's after Safana. Makes sense.
    3. Ajantis - returns to his Order. Makes sense.
    4. Tiax - could be travelling anywhere else in Faerun.
    5. Faldorn - could be travelling anywhere else in Faerun.
    6. Garrick - could be travelling anywhere else in Faerun.
    7. Montaron and Xzar - could be travelling anywhere else in Faerun.
    8. Edwin - could be travelling anywhere else in Faerun.
    9. Viconia - could be travelling anywhere else in Faerun.
    10. Quayle - could be travelling anywhere else in Faerun.

    There are 8 companions who happen to travel with Charname, and then decide to move to Amn to meet him yet again. This is beyond coincidence.

    MirandelSanctifer
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    Moreover, the initial dialogue between Jaheira and Yoshimo implies the party was transported to Amn in less time that it should be possible. Also Amn and Baldur's Gate have a very poor relationship during the game's timeframe.

    Artona
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,141
    Artona said:

    @ZaramMaldovar - as I said above, it's silly in volume.
    1. Safana - she goes after bounty on Charname. Makes sense.
    2. Coran - he's after Safana. Makes sense.
    3. Ajantis - returns to his Order. Makes sense.
    4. Tiax - could be travelling anywhere else in Faerun.
    5. Faldorn - could be travelling anywhere else in Faerun.
    6. Garrick - could be travelling anywhere else in Faerun.
    7. Montaron and Xzar - could be travelling anywhere else in Faerun.
    8. Edwin - could be travelling anywhere else in Faerun.
    9. Viconia - could be travelling anywhere else in Faerun.
    10. Quayle - could be travelling anywhere else in Faerun.

    There are 8 companions who happen to travel with Charname, and then decide to move to Amn to meet him yet again. This is beyond coincidence.


    All roads lead to Rome.

    It's not a coincidence that they turn up in Athkatla, given the size and importance of the city and it's proximity to the Sword Coast. It's more that they cross paths within the city that's the stretch.

    One of the things that really irritates me about the Beamdog additions is that SOD gives a dreadful reason for the Cannon party and to some extent undermines reasons for the rest of the NPC.
    It messes up the timeline which is a big gripe for me., there is no time between the games for all that happens.
    Messes up Vic's backstory.
    Messes up Edwin's backstory (RW enclave in Athkatla and none of them notice him????) Let alone the CW having something to say about them being there)


    DJKajurubatoor
  • GundanRTOGundanRTO Member Posts: 37
    Icasaracht is a far more compelling villain than Belhifet. In truth, in terms of coolness factor, I'd take her over Irenicus and Sarevok. 

    RaduzielPokotaStummvonBordwehrtypo_tilly
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,410
    Something about BG2 Coran that hasn't come up yet (so far as I saw): his BG1 backstory had him originate in the Forest of Tethyr, so it's perfectly consistent for him to have a home there. The real question is how he survived with all the high-level monsters that congregate the area.

    BlackravenThacoBellHalfOrcBeastmaster
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 2,416
    Perhaps he just used stealth to avoid them.

    Balrog99HalfOrcBeastmaster
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,001
    Abi_Dalzim wrote: »
    Something about BG2 Coran that hasn't come up yet (so far as I saw): his BG1 backstory had him originate in the Forest of Tethyr, so it's perfectly consistent for him to have a home there. The real question is how he survived with all the high-level monsters that congregate the area.

    He filled them full of arrows a'la Legolas of course!

  • HalfOrcBeastmasterHalfOrcBeastmaster Member Posts: 267
    (I would love to go into better detail about these points but I'd prefer to save the the full details of my opinions for a separate thread I've set aside for discussing my opinions on Siege of Dragonspear, in which all of these will at least get a mention. So I'll keep them relatively short. Also, some may not exactly be unpopular but I expect they're at least uncommonly-expressed - and if they're neither, well I aplogise but I need to get them off my chest badly so yeah.)

    * While the updated quest about her you-know-what is certainly better than what was there at the start, Mizhena is a terrible character who should never have been added to the game in the first place. Putting aside the obvious baggage of which I won't speak today, she's burdened with a weak voice actress whose delivery is monotone and flat and a rather poor personality. (Mostly dull, then Safana's stupid spy-in-the-camp quest comes along, we return her candle and suddenly she assumes we stole it without a shred of evidence and forces us into a dumb insult contest to get the information we want from her. That's not a proud warrior personality, it's a petulant little girl. Pitiful.) If the devs really wanted to have a priestess of Tempus be the in-army base cleric, they should have just gone with Branwen. That would have still let them do all the stuff Mizhena does in the game, wouldn't come with even a fraction of the baggage Mizhena carried with her and would even have the added bonus of bringing yet another old face around for Charname's final rodeo.
    * Making the final boss immune to normal weapons and magic weapons with an enchantment of +2 or less and then having an inundation of +2 weapons and only a comparitive handful of +3 weapons, nevermind weapons that can be retrieved without importing a save of the first game, was Beamdog's biggest blunder on a technical level. Bugs and glitches are both bad things to have in a game, but at least they can be fixed in post-release patches. This is a fundamental flaw of gameplay structure, one that, near as I can tell, is still there and always will be. I suspect this is the result of not accounting for players choosing an eclectic weapon selection. I feel like pointing out that even Throne of Bhaal at least tried to account for every weapon category getting its own ultimate weapon, so to speak.
    * It defies all belief for me that Caelar was pitched as more of a good guy antagonist. The morality of us vs. her is every bit as straightforward and black and white as us vs. Sarevok, Irenicus and Amelyssan. The Crusade are so redundantly destructive in their approach to gathering recruits and supplies that my immersion suffered because I found it difficult to understand why they couldn't just leave the towns and farms standing, then come back for more later. I have a few more ideas for them I think would have played out better but I'm stopping now. This is being typed on a phone and typing with your fingers is hard.

    semiticgodWise_Grimwaldtypo_tilly
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 964
    Not commenting on most of it, but I think the +3 weapon requirement is difficulty level dependent. As Core Rules are supposed to be close to P&P I think that one is fine.

    I am more annoyed that they used a previously defeated IWD villain.

    Wise_Grimwald
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,091
    I still have a strong dislike against some of the voice actors in SoD. The girl who does the voice of the rashemi girl (Riga's partner) does it in a cheesy horrible accent , she also does the voice of "old female soldier" at the coalition camp yet it's more like bad actress doing grandma voice , not to mention her cartoonish female ogre voice. I like SoD as a whole, but Beamdog really misdirected the actress in this matter.

    Still about voiceacting , Safana's voice is also too artificial at certain moments (not even theatrical, just artificial really) , and the extra soundsets , even though they have been voice by popular actors, shouldn't sound *identical* to Imoen and Safana . Voice acting is about versatility, eh?

    HalfOrcBeastmasterWise_Grimwald
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 1,642
    edited February 22
    That way you'd have a son called Gardnersonson. And when he gets a son you could call that grand child the son of son Gardnersonson.


    Gardnersonsonson

    Wise_GrimwaldHalfOrcBeastmasterThacoBell
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,044
    IMHO the biggest flaw of SoD final battle is the cutscene that plays every time you reload. I probably mentioned it already somewhere, but I think it's so annyoing that it's worth repeating. It's agonizing.
    @HalfOrcBeastmaster, I would love to read your opinions on SoD, if you'd spare time to share them. :)

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,567
    @Artona Can't you hold "ESC" to skip it?

    semiticgodAerakartypo_tillylolien
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,044
    @ThacoBell - I was never aware of that option. :o I'll definitely try that next time I play SoD. Thanks. :)

    ThacoBell
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