The machine feels like playing a slot machine. I like books, I don't like slot machines.
Also it's such a non event getting all the stat increases at once. You don't really appreciate any of them individually and so late in game, by that time who cares?
The individual tomes in BG influence, to some extent, how you move through the game.
An interesting mod for BG2 would be the addition of tomes and randomising the results from each one you find. Some might reduce a stat, some increase, make it a gamble.
Of course most people would simply reload. But imagine the headache it would give the no reload players.
The real fun of Lum's machine isn't using the commands that there are fixed combinations for. It's the part afterwards, when you ward yourself against level drain, poison, and petrification before mashing buttons randomly in hopes of landing beneficial effects. Gotta live life to the fullest!
Unpopular opinion: The Machine of Lum the Mad is largely meaningless because it grants very small bonuses when ToB (which is itself just a fraction of the whole saga) is already 90% over.
A few extra stat points and some tiny boosts to resistances aren't very exciting when you're a level 20/20 fighter/mage with +5 weapons and sky-high stats.
And before you say: "Don't use it if you don't like it", that's not the point. It's like adding a +50 1000d6 dagger in the beginning of the game and saying: "Well, you see that easily obtainable item that destroys any and all challenges? Don't use if you don't like it."
It's like that, but worse and more easily available.
It's crappy design and it's an easy solution, instead of pushing you to actually learn the game and use your head, instead there's a mode that says: "You suck at the game, don't get better, use the Super God Mode instead".
And no, it's not compared to the Debug console because first of all, that's a debugging console for developers first and such consoles/cheats are supposed to be obscure exactly to prevent you from easily using them to proceed in the game.
Creating a game with a god mode easily selectable that destroys any challenge, making you unable to lose in your game, is bad game design. You can't respect a game design that instead of promoting mastery of it, it has an Invincible Baby mode that you can select when you click New Game.
Even other games (like Mass Effect) that had a Story Mode didn't completely eliminate any and all challenge, making you unable to die even if you tried. Because no developer in their right mind would do it. Because it provides an easy solution for the lazy.
Once again, obscure debug console commands and Super God Mode on start are incomparable. It's the developer's job to provide a challenge and not an easy way for the players to cheat their game. This kind of Story Mode is the kind of modes you point at and laugh.
The last thing a game that promotes itself as an old-school DnD RPG needed was this kind of hand-holding.
Some people don't like dying and are just there for the story. For those characters, combat is just a distraction to be minimized. Compare it to a theoretical "Combat Mode" where all dialogues and cutscenes are skipped, and the game is nothing but a string of fights. I'd gladly play that--it would mean I'd get to focus on the parts of the game I really care about.
As a maniac powergamer who does experimental no-reload runs with difficulty mods cranked up to 11, I'd say that no game needs to be difficult, and no player needs a challenge. In fact, a lot of people benefit from an easy game. It's relaxing sometimes.
The real world is already a high-difficulty no-reload run game where half of everything is RNG. Not everyone wants another one.
But the machine just seems cheesy to me. Tomes are classy. The best bit in the game is when you put a tome in your quick slot and click on it and then go back to your character screen to look at how much stronger or smarter or charismatic you are.
How so? Tomes are just click and use. THe machine actually requires some extra steps. The end result is the same anyway.
You should only be able to use tomes at an inn, and when you click on one, a month of game time should pass.
An interesting mod for BG2 would be the addition of tomes and randomising the results from each one you find. Some might reduce a stat, some increase, make it a gamble.
The machine feels like playing a slot machine. I like books, I don't like slot machines.
Its not random though. You can find the codes for every command lying around the dungeon.
It's still a slot machine. And as @UnderstandMouseMagic has said it feels like a non-event getting all the stat increases at once. It makes it feel like a Monty Haul dungeon.
The machine feels like playing a slot machine. I like books, I don't like slot machines.
Its not random though. You can find the codes for every command lying around the dungeon.
It's still a slot machine. And as @UnderstandMouseMagic has said it feels like a non-event getting all the stat increases at once. It makes it feel like a Monty Haul dungeon.
Since the cats put of the bag (not catsup!!!), I might as well show my colar.
SoD is a really great expansion. Everything works - besides
the obvious lack of tomes/manuals. Really BD? You couldnt make a game without totally sucking up to the purist players?
Now the power players have to do the whole game for a measly 339.000 xp extra.
We get to visit an old temple of Bhall and Avernus without a tome/manual or some extra spark from our father? Really?
And if the puristest ever compained about an extra con, dex or cha tome, you could tell them to
not pick it up
And while I am at it. Watchers keep losses my interest right after
Machine of lum the mad is obtained...
They should have placed it after the demogorgon to make me avtually care... or given him a tome
I hate Legacy of Bhaal mode. When it was announced I thought it would throw more and more powerful enemies in our direction, provide a smarter AI, things like that. But all it does is cheat every single character like a lazy DM in a bad mood would do.
I hate Legacy of Bhaal mode. When it was announced I thought it would throw more and more powerful enemies in our direction, provide a smarter AI, things like that. But all it does is cheat every single character like a lazy DM in a bad mood would do.
What a waste of opportunity.
Completely agree, but, to be fair, it IS as advertised : HoF mode in the BG saga. They never hinted at anything else. And, coupled with SCS, it can make for a quirky (but inane) challenge.
You are in no way lazy if you prefer to play games on easier difficulties, including Story mode. People enjoy games for different reasons, so just let people play however they want. SCS, HoF, LoB are all around to make the game more fun for people who enjoy more difficult and challenging gameplay. Great stuff if that's your thing! So I really don't see a problem with having other options for people who don't like that.
@Archaos What about disabled players? One of the biggest reasons why I cannot stand the demonization of lower difficulty levels, is that for a lot of people, its the ONLY WAY they can enjoy a game. So yes, don't play it if you don't like it is a perfectly valid response.
The machine feels like playing a slot machine. I like books, I don't like slot machines.
Its not random though. You can find the codes for every command lying around the dungeon.
It's still a slot machine. And as @UnderstandMouseMagic has said it feels like a non-event getting all the stat increases at once. It makes it feel like a Monty Haul dungeon.
Do you wanna explain to me how its a slot machine? Because I'm not seeing the connection. Its not random, and you don't lose anything by "playing".
The machine feels like playing a slot machine. I like books, I don't like slot machines.
Its not random though. You can find the codes for every command lying around the dungeon.
It's still a slot machine. And as @UnderstandMouseMagic has said it feels like a non-event getting all the stat increases at once. It makes it feel like a Monty Haul dungeon.
Do you wanna explain to me how its a slot machine? Because I'm not seeing the connection. Its not random, and you don't lose anything by "playing".
And before you say: "Don't use it if you don't like it", that's not the point. It's like adding a +50 1000d6 dagger in the beginning of the game and saying: "Well, you see that easily obtainable item that destroys any and all challenges? Don't use if you don't like it."
It's like that, but worse and more easily available.
It's crappy design and it's an easy solution, instead of pushing you to actually learn the game and use your head, instead there's a mode that says: "You suck at the game, don't get better, use the Super God Mode instead".
And no, it's not compared to the Debug console because first of all, that's a debugging console for developers first and such consoles/cheats are supposed to be obscure exactly to prevent you from easily using them to proceed in the game.
Creating a game with a god mode easily selectable that destroys any challenge, making you unable to lose in your game, is bad game design. You can't respect a game design that instead of promoting mastery of it, it has an Invincible Baby mode that you can select when you click New Game.
Even other games (like Mass Effect) that had a Story Mode didn't completely eliminate any and all challenge, making you unable to die even if you tried. Because no developer in their right mind would do it. Because it provides an easy solution for the lazy.
Once again, obscure debug console commands and Super God Mode on start are incomparable. It's the developer's job to provide a challenge and not an easy way for the players to cheat their game. This kind of Story Mode is the kind of modes you point at and laugh.
The last thing a game that promotes itself as an old-school DnD RPG needed was this kind of hand-holding.
/rant.
in my experience, story mode only offers one thing: fast runs so you can get your butt over to BG2, for example:
lets say i want to play a monk, but i dont want to play them in bg1 ( since monks arent really balanced for bg1, especially the default one )
but i want all the tomes, so then i can start BG2 with a nice healthy 19 STR
so i will make a monk, put on story mode, and in about 40 minutes, i have grabbed all 8 tomes and im at sarevok's doorstep in the undercity, and then import my character over to SoA
even though i have completed the game solo before ( my first ever legitimate solo run was with a swashbuckler ) a legitimate solo run still takes about 4-5 hours, while a story mode run only takes 40 minutes
so that is the only reason why i will play story mode, is just to get a certain character that i really want to play in SoA faster but with some juicy tome upgrades
The machine feels like playing a slot machine. I like books, I don't like slot machines.
Its not random though. You can find the codes for every command lying around the dungeon.
It's still a slot machine. And as @UnderstandMouseMagic has said it feels like a non-event getting all the stat increases at once. It makes it feel like a Monty Haul dungeon.
Do you wanna explain to me how its a slot machine? Because I'm not seeing the connection. Its not random, and you don't lose anything by "playing".
Maybe because you have to pull levers.
From now on I'm describing the machine as driving a bulldozer. That sounds awesome.
@sarevok57 Wouldn't EEKeep the character be easier?
As both games don't communicate at all it doesn't make sense to play BG1 if you just want to play BG2.
I actually understand it. Is not only about times. You don’t want to play SoD without Vascona, The World’s End, Dagger of Venom, etc... I have played BG1 until the city of Baldur’s Gate three times in a row without even meeting Sarevok for different (and stupid) reasons. Haven’t played Pillars of Eternity 2 or Divinity 2 yet, just fully compromised with SoD and BG2. Now this time I’m hoping to finish this time and finally do SoD for the first time. Do you know how dull is being the third run in a row in BG1? I’m doing it with no pleasure at all. Doing Durlag was not really a joy. But if I can play the god mod and get over it in 40 min and EEKeeper the exp cap, that doesn’t sound too bad for me...
You could do a heavy EEkeeper shopping list with all the items you consider you’d carry on (every single arrow and potion too) for a full party, true. Even you can change proficiencies But what about the variables? So you need them to carry over to SoD?
I actually understand it. Is not only about times. You don’t want to play SoD without Vascona, The World’s End, Dagger of Venom, etc... I have played BG1 until the city of Baldur’s Gate three times in a row without even meeting Sarevok for different (and stupid) reasons. Haven’t played Pillars of Eternity 2 or Divinity 2 yet, just fully compromised with SoD and BG2. Now this time I’m hoping to finish this time and finally do SoD for the first time. Do you know how dull is being the third run in a row in BG1? I’m doing it with no pleasure at all. Doing Durlag was not really a joy. But if I can play the god mod and get over it in 40 min and EEKeeper the exp cap, that doesn’t sound too bad for me...
You could do a heavy EEkeeper shopping list with all the items you consider you’d carry on (every single arrow and potion too) for a full party, true. Even you can change proficiencies But what about the variables? So you need them to carry over to SoD?
You seem to have SOD and BG2 mixed up here. The intial comment concerned the latter, not the former.
@Archaos What about disabled players? One of the biggest reasons why I cannot stand the demonization of lower difficulty levels, is that for a lot of people, its the ONLY WAY they can enjoy a game. So yes, don't play it if you don't like it is a perfectly valid response.
or people like me that hate the instant kill bs of basilisks and mindflyers.
or people like me that hate the instant kill bs of basilisks and mindflyers.
There are easy ways to deal with both basilisks and mindflayers.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Instead of learning how to deal with them with system mastery, experimentation and research, you just put Story Mode and you learn nothing, because the challenge was bypassed.
If games like Dark Souls had a Super God Mode difficulty (which is exactly what Story Mode is, God Mode ++), players could just switch on to get over the challenge, then people would never learn, improve and get better at the game.
Some people don't like dying and are just there for the story.
That's where cheats came in where you had to go out of your way to find and enable.
"Some people don't like dying" sounds like something you shouldn't be proud of. You're supposed to learn and overcome the challenge in any game, not be hand-held like a baby.
Being handheld like a baby is widely considered insulting and condescending and a big negative for a game.
Making challenging games like Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale or Dark Souls is widely considered a positive thing.
Those that either couldn't learn, or didn't think enough, or didn't try enough, or didn't read enough to pass the game even on Easy, always had the option of blatant cheats.
But making something lazy like making you invincible with max stats as an actual "difficulty" of the game? That's insulting "here if you can't bother to learn or improve, choose the Baby difficulty".
Again, there's a good reason that almost no game ever did that. Except with cheats. And it's not because those hundreds of developers didn't think of making invincibility and max stats a difficulty.
Including this kind of Story (God) Mode is "nice" but short-sighted. In the long term it makes people choose it when things get tough like a crutch. Because they lack the skills to deal with tougher challenges.
As for those that have it permanently on for the story? Then you render ALL of the mechanical parts of your game invalid, because you skip them.
And again, when people can easily skip a large part of your game or bypass it? That's bad game design. You want your players to engage with your game and learn your game. Not freaking bypass all of the gameplay.
Personally, I don't understand why someone would be angry about the way someone else play a single player game. In an mmo or something like that, I'd get it, because you need an even playing field, but not in single player. In these games, the more options we have, the best it is at the end of the day.
Someone wants to play with 25 stats everywhere with the godbow ? Go ahead, knock yourself out if you like it !
The machine feels like playing a slot machine. I like books, I don't like slot machines.
Its not random though. You can find the codes for every command lying around the dungeon.
It's still a slot machine. And as @UnderstandMouseMagic has said it feels like a non-event getting all the stat increases at once. It makes it feel like a Monty Haul dungeon.
Do you wanna explain to me how its a slot machine? Because I'm not seeing the connection. Its not random, and you don't lose anything by "playing".
It's got bells and whistles and buttons you press and levers you pull. Some of the results are good most of them are bad. You've just learned how to avoid the bad results.
@Arctodus It's not about how someone plays their game. That's a different issue. The problem is that it provides an easy crutch for those that won't put in the mental effort to learn the game.
It's bad game design to provide challenges for your game that players are supposed to overcome using their head and then providing with an easily adjustable Mode that makes that challenge pointless.
It's like playing Dark Souls and having an in-game option called: "Invincibility Mode" that renders all challenge pointless.
You want your players to learn the game and be part of the gameplay, not use Baby Mode because they won't put the effort. Nevermind that God Mode already existed with the Debug console.
Making it part of the difficulty selection menu is like rendering more than half of the game pointless because the gameplay part is now gone.
Comments
You don't really appreciate any of them individually and so late in game, by that time who cares?
The individual tomes in BG influence, to some extent, how you move through the game.
An interesting mod for BG2 would be the addition of tomes and randomising the results from each one you find.
Some might reduce a stat, some increase, make it a gamble.
Of course most people would simply reload.
But imagine the headache it would give the no reload players.
A few extra stat points and some tiny boosts to resistances aren't very exciting when you're a level 20/20 fighter/mage with +5 weapons and sky-high stats.
Story Mode is lazy and insulting.
And before you say: "Don't use it if you don't like it", that's not the point.
It's like adding a +50 1000d6 dagger in the beginning of the game and saying: "Well, you see that easily obtainable item that destroys any and all challenges? Don't use if you don't like it."
It's like that, but worse and more easily available.
It's crappy design and it's an easy solution, instead of pushing you to actually learn the game and use your head, instead there's a mode that says: "You suck at the game, don't get better, use the Super God Mode instead".
And no, it's not compared to the Debug console because first of all, that's a debugging console for developers first and such consoles/cheats are supposed to be obscure exactly to prevent you from easily using them to proceed in the game.
Creating a game with a god mode easily selectable that destroys any challenge, making you unable to lose in your game, is bad game design.
You can't respect a game design that instead of promoting mastery of it, it has an Invincible Baby mode that you can select when you click New Game.
Even other games (like Mass Effect) that had a Story Mode didn't completely eliminate any and all challenge, making you unable to die even if you tried.
Because no developer in their right mind would do it. Because it provides an easy solution for the lazy.
Once again, obscure debug console commands and Super God Mode on start are incomparable.
It's the developer's job to provide a challenge and not an easy way for the players to cheat their game.
This kind of Story Mode is the kind of modes you point at and laugh.
The last thing a game that promotes itself as an old-school DnD RPG needed was this kind of hand-holding.
/rant.
As a maniac powergamer who does experimental no-reload runs with difficulty mods cranked up to 11, I'd say that no game needs to be difficult, and no player needs a challenge. In fact, a lot of people benefit from an easy game. It's relaxing sometimes.
The real world is already a high-difficulty no-reload run game where half of everything is RNG. Not everyone wants another one.
Also, the user of the time would not have memorized any spells
SoD is a really great expansion. Everything works - besides
Now the power players have to do the whole game for a measly 339.000 xp extra.
We get to visit an old temple of Bhall and Avernus without a tome/manual or some extra spark from our father? Really?
And if the puristest ever compained about an extra con, dex or cha tome, you could tell them to
And while I am at it. Watchers keep losses my interest right after
They should have placed it after the demogorgon to make me avtually care... or given him a tome
What a waste of opportunity.
There is no right or wrong way to play a single-player game, since the only person the player can cheat is him- or herself.
lets say i want to play a monk, but i dont want to play them in bg1 ( since monks arent really balanced for bg1, especially the default one )
but i want all the tomes, so then i can start BG2 with a nice healthy 19 STR
so i will make a monk, put on story mode, and in about 40 minutes, i have grabbed all 8 tomes and im at sarevok's doorstep in the undercity, and then import my character over to SoA
even though i have completed the game solo before ( my first ever legitimate solo run was with a swashbuckler ) a legitimate solo run still takes about 4-5 hours, while a story mode run only takes 40 minutes
so that is the only reason why i will play story mode, is just to get a certain character that i really want to play in SoA faster but with some juicy tome upgrades
As both games don't communicate at all it doesn't make sense to play BG1 if you just want to play BG2.
I actually understand it. Is not only about times. You don’t want to play SoD without Vascona, The World’s End, Dagger of Venom, etc... I have played BG1 until the city of Baldur’s Gate three times in a row without even meeting Sarevok for different (and stupid) reasons. Haven’t played Pillars of Eternity 2 or Divinity 2 yet, just fully compromised with SoD and BG2. Now this time I’m hoping to finish this time and finally do SoD for the first time. Do you know how dull is being the third run in a row in BG1? I’m doing it with no pleasure at all. Doing Durlag was not really a joy. But if I can play the god mod and get over it in 40 min and EEKeeper the exp cap, that doesn’t sound too bad for me...
You could do a heavy EEkeeper shopping list with all the items you consider you’d carry on (every single arrow and potion too) for a full party, true. Even you can change proficiencies But what about the variables? So you need them to carry over to SoD?
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Instead of learning how to deal with them with system mastery, experimentation and research, you just put Story Mode and you learn nothing, because the challenge was bypassed.
If games like Dark Souls had a Super God Mode difficulty (which is exactly what Story Mode is, God Mode ++), players could just switch on to get over the challenge, then people would never learn, improve and get better at the game. That's where cheats came in where you had to go out of your way to find and enable.
"Some people don't like dying" sounds like something you shouldn't be proud of.
You're supposed to learn and overcome the challenge in any game, not be hand-held like a baby.
Being handheld like a baby is widely considered insulting and condescending and a big negative for a game.
Making challenging games like Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale or Dark Souls is widely considered a positive thing.
Those that either couldn't learn, or didn't think enough, or didn't try enough, or didn't read enough to pass the game even on Easy, always had the option of blatant cheats.
But making something lazy like making you invincible with max stats as an actual "difficulty" of the game?
That's insulting "here if you can't bother to learn or improve, choose the Baby difficulty".
Again, there's a good reason that almost no game ever did that. Except with cheats.
And it's not because those hundreds of developers didn't think of making invincibility and max stats a difficulty.
Including this kind of Story (God) Mode is "nice" but short-sighted.
In the long term it makes people choose it when things get tough like a crutch.
Because they lack the skills to deal with tougher challenges.
As for those that have it permanently on for the story?
Then you render ALL of the mechanical parts of your game invalid, because you skip them.
And again, when people can easily skip a large part of your game or bypass it? That's bad game design.
You want your players to engage with your game and learn your game. Not freaking bypass all of the gameplay.
*Sigh*
Someone wants to play with 25 stats everywhere with the godbow ? Go ahead, knock yourself out if you like it !
The problem is that it provides an easy crutch for those that won't put in the mental effort to learn the game.
It's bad game design to provide challenges for your game that players are supposed to overcome using their head and then providing with an easily adjustable Mode that makes that challenge pointless.
It's like playing Dark Souls and having an in-game option called: "Invincibility Mode" that renders all challenge pointless.
You want your players to learn the game and be part of the gameplay, not use Baby Mode because they won't put the effort.
Nevermind that God Mode already existed with the Debug console.
Making it part of the difficulty selection menu is like rendering more than half of the game pointless because the gameplay part is now gone.